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TheflyingDutchman

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Doxa
Yep, there was a musical interaction between Keith and Bill back in the old days. Although it was mostly a one-way street: Bill kept his ears on Keith's guitar and slightly anticipated what he was playing (while Charlie slightly followed behind), those three together causing thereby the famous 'wobble' - Keith eyes and ears clocked, just trusting his intuition, and the two other following him. However, Bill occasionally would even lead the whole band by pointing out the chord and song part changes (which means also Keith was keeping on eye on his doings).

The result of that 'wobble' was the sound of the greatest rock and roll band in the world.

I guess people might think with 'interaction' something else, but as far as I am concerned, the only only interaction which matters is the one I described above.


- Doxa

It's called "Designer Sloppiness",. like Jeff Beck put it, cause he doesn't understand it either. I myself don't believe that there's a "deliberate" way of creating the "wobble" like you describe it: Keith following Charlie or Bill taking the lead , taking an eye etc etc. It's merely the mood of the day, the way of recording or even the position of the amps on stage. It's a matter of timing i.e. syncopation at best, like every good rock or blues band, but you cannot control milliseconds in music by looking at each other and than controlling it, hence the "wobble".
That's were the musical paradox of the Stones' "old sound" creeps in. There 's no musical explanation or whatsoever. They have no conductor, not Charie, Bill or Keith. It's a coincidence of different people with a different but familiar musical heartbeat cementing it together. It just happens, spontaneously. There's a good chance that I misinterpret your post though.

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wonderboy
I don't think it has anything to do with KEith's feeling toward either Bill or Darryl, but everything to do with Keith becoming a more demonstrative and more relaxed personality in his later years.

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Doxa
Yep, there was a musical interaction between Keith and Bill back in the old days. Although it was mostly a one-way street: Bill kept his ears on Keith's guitar and slightly anticipated what he was playing (while Charlie slightly followed behind), those three together causing thereby the famous 'wobble' - Keith eyes and ears clocked, just trusting his intuition, and the two other following him. However, Bill occasionally would even lead the whole band by pointing out the chord and song part changes (which means also Keith was keeping on eye on his doings).

The result of that 'wobble' was the sound of the greatest rock and roll band in the world.

I guess people might think with 'interaction' something else, but as far as I am concerned, the only only interaction which matters is the one I described above.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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TheflyingDutchman

Quote
Doxa
Yep, there was a musical interaction between Keith and Bill back in the old days. Although it was mostly a one-way street: Bill kept his ears on Keith's guitar and slightly anticipated what he was playing (while Charlie slightly followed behind), those three together causing thereby the famous 'wobble' - Keith eyes and ears clocked, just trusting his intuition, and the two other following him. However, Bill occasionally would even lead the whole band by pointing out the chord and song part changes (which means also Keith was keeping on eye on his doings).

The result of that 'wobble' was the sound of the greatest rock and roll band in the world.

I guess people might think with 'interaction' something else, but as far as I am concerned, the only only interaction which matters is the one I described above.


- Doxa

It's called "Designer Sloppiness",. like Jeff Beck put it, cause he doesn't understand it either. I myself don't believe that there's a "deliberate" way of creating the "wobble" like you describe it: Keith following Charlie or Bill taking the lead , taking an eye etc etc. It's merely the mood of the day, the way of recording or even the position of the amps on stage. It's a matter of timing i.e. syncopation at best, like every good rock or blues band, but you cannot control milliseconds in music by looking at each other and than controlling it, hence the "wobble".
That's were the musical paradox of the Stones' "old sound" creeps in. There 's no musical explanation or whatsoever. They have no conductor, not Charie, Bill or Keith. It's a coincidence of different people with a different but familiar musical heartbeat cementing it together. It just happens, spontaneously. There's a good chance that I misinterpret your post though.

I don't think there was anything 'delibarate' in what Charlie, Bill & Keith once did together. It all just happened by instinct, or if you like, they've learned by doing. They just happened to intreract that way, just by playing together. And what I did described was the way Bill has described it. My picture is that Keith is simply just so thick head that he actually doesn't listen at all what anyone else does, but just plays as he wishes, guided just by his intuition. And the rest are forced to follow him. And they - Charlie and Bill - do that superbly. That's why Keith 'loves' Charlie, because there probably aren't many drummers in the world who would actually do what he does, making everything very easy for Keith. The secret of the Stones sound is indeed Keith's timing, but the true heroes are indeed Charlie and Bill - making Keith's idiosyncracies to swing steady and coherent. One could even say that Keith is spoiled for having such partners to play with.

- Doxa

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Doxa


I don't think there was anything 'delibarate' in what Charlie, Bill & Keith once did together. It all just happened by instinct, or if you like, they've learned by doing. They just happened to intreract that way, just by playing together. And what I did described was the way Bill has described it. My picture is that Keith is simply just so thick head that he actually doesn't listen at all what anyone else does, but just plays as he wishes, guided just by his intuition. And the rest are forced to follow him. And they - Charlie and Bill - do that superbly. That's why Keith 'loves' Charlie, because there probably aren't many drummers in the world who would actually do what he does, making everything very easy for Keith. The secret of the Stones sound is indeed Keith's timing, but the true heroes are indeed Charlie and Bill - making Keith's idiosyncracies to swing steady and coherent. One could even say that Keith is spoiled for having such partners to play with.

- Doxa

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liddas
...If there is one thing that makes Keith's guitar work so interesting is how he listens - but I should better say "feels" - and reacts to the music the band creates.

C

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liddas

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Doxa


I don't think there was anything 'delibarate' in what Charlie, Bill & Keith once did together. It all just happened by instinct, or if you like, they've learned by doing. They just happened to intreract that way, just by playing together. And what I did described was the way Bill has described it. My picture is that Keith is simply just so thick head that he actually doesn't listen at all what anyone else does, but just plays as he wishes, guided just by his intuition. And the rest are forced to follow him. And they - Charlie and Bill - do that superbly. That's why Keith 'loves' Charlie, because there probably aren't many drummers in the world who would actually do what he does, making everything very easy for Keith. The secret of the Stones sound is indeed Keith's timing, but the true heroes are indeed Charlie and Bill - making Keith's idiosyncracies to swing steady and coherent. One could even say that Keith is spoiled for having such partners to play with.

- Doxa

Keith doesn't listen what others do????

No way, no way at all!

Probably it happened a few times in the early 60s, but the problem was not him being too thick, rather that nobody could hear a thing on stage.

If there is one thing that makes Keith's guitar work so interesting is how he listens - but I should better say "feels" - and reacts to the music the band creates.

C

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Doxa

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TheflyingDutchman

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Doxa
Yep, there was a musical interaction between Keith and Bill back in the old days. Although it was mostly a one-way street: Bill kept his ears on Keith's guitar and slightly anticipated what he was playing (while Charlie slightly followed behind), those three together causing thereby the famous 'wobble' - Keith eyes and ears clocked, just trusting his intuition, and the two other following him. However, Bill occasionally would even lead the whole band by pointing out the chord and song part changes (which means also Keith was keeping on eye on his doings).

The result of that 'wobble' was the sound of the greatest rock and roll band in the world.

I guess people might think with 'interaction' something else, but as far as I am concerned, the only only interaction which matters is the one I described above.


- Doxa

It's called "Designer Sloppiness",. like Jeff Beck put it, cause he doesn't understand it either. I myself don't believe that there's a "deliberate" way of creating the "wobble" like you describe it: Keith following Charlie or Bill taking the lead , taking an eye etc etc. It's merely the mood of the day, the way of recording or even the position of the amps on stage. It's a matter of timing i.e. syncopation at best, like every good rock or blues band, but you cannot control milliseconds in music by looking at each other and than controlling it, hence the "wobble".
That's were the musical paradox of the Stones' "old sound" creeps in. There 's no musical explanation or whatsoever. They have no conductor, not Charie, Bill or Keith. It's a coincidence of different people with a different but familiar musical heartbeat cementing it together. It just happens, spontaneously. There's a good chance that I misinterpret your post though.

I don't think there was anything 'delibarate' in what Charlie, Bill & Keith once did together. It all just happened by instinct, or if you like, they've learned by doing. They just happened to intreract that way, just by playing together. And what I did described was the way Bill has described it. My picture is that Keith is simply just so thick head that he actually doesn't listen at all what anyone else does, but just plays as he wishes, guided just by his intuition. And the rest are forced to follow him. And they - Charlie and Bill - do that superbly. That's why Keith 'loves' Charlie, because there probably aren't many drummers in the world who would actually do what he does, making everything very easy for Keith. The secret of the Stones sound is indeed Keith's timing, but the true heroes are indeed Charlie and Bill - making Keith's idiosyncracies to swing steady and coherent. One could even say that Keith is spoiled for having such partners to play with.

- Doxa

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Spud
Whoever is driving it, whether that be Keith , Charlie ...or Bill for that matter....

...the "wobble" is a kind of natural syncopation , coming from the way they each individually feel the timing.

There's sometimes some intentional messing with the groove too ...but the Stones' engine timing is mostly just the way they feel it.