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Keith's Black LP Customs
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: October 7, 2005 22:22

apologies, people, because for sure this has been covered before, no doubt more than once, but:
what can any/all of you kind patient knowledgeable guitar-identifying people tell me about the "psychedelic-painted" guitar Keith was using in 68?
it's best known from Rock & Roll Circus, of course, but since i'm re-running a previously-discussed topic,
i reckon the least i can do is offer a less-well-known photo (at least if photobucket gets its shirt together and actually displays it).

it sure looks like a so-called Black Beauty, but i think i recall reading somewhere that it actually isn't.
and while i believe this photo is from 69, i am pretty sure i've never seen any photos or footage
of Keith playing this painted one after the 69 tour. is any of that right?

thanks for any insights - and i promise to remember them this time!


- 1969, courtesy of Coowouters



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-01 12:55 by with sssoul.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: October 8, 2005 00:36

Ms. Sssoul! That guitar is a 3 pickup Les Paul Custom and I believe it's 1959. Keith did use this guitar during the '69 tour for "Street Fighting Man" which you can see in the film "Gimme Shelter" but I'm wondering it is the same guitar as the pyschedelic paint job does not seem to be there. He also used it during the '70 and 71 tours. Here is a better photo:




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-08 00:41 by ChrisM.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: browneyedgirl ()
Date: October 8, 2005 00:58

WOW! Thanks for sharing the photo, ChrisM!

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: October 8, 2005 00:59

wow, great photo - thank you very much indeed, ChrisM!
when i said i don't think i've seen this guitar after the 69 tour, i meant this particular painted one -
i've now edited my post to make that clearer. and i'll very happily go study Gimme Shelter and my 70/71 archives some more.

so was this among the guitars stolen from Nellcote?
(what a vile thing to do.) (pardon me - i had to say that.)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-01 12:56 by with sssoul.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: October 8, 2005 01:15

I'm not sure that if this particular guitar was stolen from Nellcote or not because the story goes that Keith has had several 3 pickup Customs over the years. My understanding is he gave this one as a gift to a close friend. If his statement is to be believed (Sorry I'm not sure from where the statement comes) Randy Bachman owns one of them. One of these 3 PU guitars had been left it in a repair shop in Western Canada for some minor work and it was not picked up for a couple of years. When finally contacted they just said keep it for the storage fees (this was in the very early 70's) and Bachman bought it.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: October 8, 2005 01:56

Unless he had another (which is possible), this made its debut
during the Buttons sessions (and possibly some Aftermath sessions).
I believe it's the same guitar used on the Sullivan show for LSTNT, sans artwork.
AS I said, he may have had 2 or more of these. HArrison had 2 Gretsch
Country Gentlemans which differed ever so slightly.
Also, Gibson used a photo of Keith during the 1972 tour playing a
black Les Paul on its Les Paul brouchere. HOwever, it was not this one.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: October 8, 2005 02:37

Hey Tom! How's it going? I remember that Gibson Ad! I have a .jpg of it at home and I'll post it later. The guitar in that one though is a two pickup Les Paul Custom with P90s and dates to 1954 I believe when the model was first introduced.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: October 8, 2005 05:28

Here is the pic of the Gibson ad. If anyone knows where I can get an original, please let me know!

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: October 8, 2005 11:47

beautiful! thank you ChrisM and TomK for this great input.

here's what my hunt through my files came up with -
looks like the same model sans artwork in 66/67:


- probably late 1966, by Michael Cooper (courtesy BrownEyedGirll)


- september 66 Sullivan show rehearsal (courtesy StonesDoug -
correct date courtesy of His Majesty)

and in 70/71:


- Gothenburg, sep 5th 1970 (from Rolling with the Stones)


- Bristol, march 9th 1971, by Robert Ellis

so how does this 3-pickup custom tyke differ from a Black Beauty?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-07 20:36 by with sssoul.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: October 8, 2005 21:05

Wow! Once again great photos that I've never seen before now! Merci Ms. Sssoul and Brown Eyed Girl! By the way, "Black Beauty" was the nickname given to the Les Paul Custom when it was first came and if I remember rightly it is a moniker not limited to any particular model year.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: October 8, 2005 22:29

Great first picture of Keith in the studio, now we know which guitar he used for Midnight Rambler!

The Black Beauty actaully only is the Les Paul Custom from 1954, with P90 and Alnico 5 pickups. This guitar had really thin and low frets, making it perfect for fast soloing, but chords can sound out of tune. The later models with PAF's had the standard fret wire, and aren't Black Beauty's anymore, although even Gibson advertises these as such.

Keith had at least four 1957 three pickup Customs. He first used one in 1966, and this one got stolen on tour in 1967. He purchased a new one on Denmark Street in London, and this one was painted by himself and Anita. The guitar now is owned by a very known London collector, and he is open for offers, but expect a price of anything over $500.000.

The story is he gave this guitar away or left it in the Canada shop, but no one seems to know for sure. He bought two new ones for the 1969 tour, and used one for open G tuinig on Jumping Jack Flash and Street Fighting Man, the other for standard tuning. On the 1970 and 1971 tours he used two again, but for most open G songs he starting using the Ampeg Dan Armstrong. Both guitars were stolen at Nellcote in July 1971. I never seen him using Customs again, until two weeks ago, when some pictures were posted on Rocks Off of the Stones rehearsing for the El Mocambo shows, and later for a photo shoot around 1980. Keith holds a three-picup custom. The pictures were taken by I believe Nick Kent, who has a exibition.

Mathijs

From [www.provide.net]

1954 Les Paul Custom introduction specs:
carved mahogany top, single cutaway, mahogany back and neck, one black P-90 pickup in bridge position, one Alnico V pickup in neck position, both pickups have black covers, Tune-o-matic bridge, stop tailpiece (Bigsby vibrato optional), multiple bound top and back, single bound ebony fingerboard and peghead, block fingerboard inlays, pearl logo, 5-piece diamond peghead inlay, low "fretless wonder" frets, gold plated parts, black finish, early examples have no serial number. Later 1954 models have yellow "inked on" serial numbers.
mid 1957 Les Paul Custom specs:
3 Humbucking pickups replace 2 single coil pickups.
1959 Les Paul Custom specs:
Grover rotomatic tuners.
1961 Les Paul Custom specs:
complete body style change to symmetrical pointed double cutaways, thin mahogany body with beveled edges, white finish (refered to as the "SG" body style).
Les Paul Custom discontinued 1963 in name only (now called SG Custom).

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: October 9, 2005 02:12

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This guitar had really thin and low frets, making
> it perfect for fast soloing, but chords can sound
> out of tune.

Well, the few I've played stayed in tune pretty well when chording.
Perhaps they had work done on them. True on the soloing part.
They start to play you after a while.

> I never seen him using Customs again, until two
> weeks ago, when some pictures were posted on Rocks
> Off of the Stones rehearsing for the El Mocambo shows.

Where abouts on the Rocks OFf site? I must have missed it.



Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: chippy ()
Date: October 9, 2005 02:27

tank u all for the history lesson ,, & great pics also

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: October 9, 2005 05:40

I was wondering when you would cime in Mathijs. Thanks for your input!

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: October 9, 2005 09:51

thank you thank you for all these brilliant details, Mathijs!
>> now we know which guitar he used for Midnight Rambler! <<
cool! i'm glad the photo grooves you - and if you feel like elucidating on that intriguing statement, i will be fascinated.

>> The Black Beauty actually only is the Les Paul Custom from 1954 <<
so if i'm following all this properly ... no wonder i wasn't sure if the psychedelic buddy is/isn't a Black Beauty.
is the guitar in the poster that ChrisM posted (thank you!) a Black Beauty in this more-strictly-accurate sense?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-09 11:12 by with sssoul.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: vedran ()
Date: October 9, 2005 12:45

[i2.photobucket.com]

What abot this one? This couldn't be that '69 guitar?

Is this pic from BB tour or Licks? And wich song it is used on?

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: October 9, 2005 12:57

cool, Vedran - thanks! is that the current see-through guitar?
it's not the Ampeg Dan Armstrong Keith had from 69 to 71, though -
you can see that one pretty well on this shot:


- Stargroves, march 1970 (Pictorial Press, courtesy BrownEyedgirll)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-09 13:06 by with sssoul.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: nmaillot ()
Date: October 9, 2005 12:59

"I never seen him using Customs again, until two weeks ago, when some pictures were posted on Rocks Off of the Stones rehearsing for the El Mocambo shows, and later for a photo shoot around 1980."

Where can we see these pictures ?

Thanks

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: Reptile ()
Date: October 9, 2005 13:01

Mathijs, that one's not used on Midnight Rambler. It may be capoed at the 7th fret, but Keith said in an interview in 2002:

"That was done on a full-bodied, Australian electric-acoustic, f-hole guitar. It kind of looked like an Australian copy of the Gibson model that Chuck Berry used. I played it on Gimmie Shelter too... It had all been revarnished and painted out, but it sounded great. It made a great record... (I got it f)rom some guy who stayed at my pad. He crashed out for a couple of days and suddenly left in a hurry, leaving that guitar behind. You know, Take care of this for me. I certainly did! But it served me well through the album".

And this one is nor Australian nor electric-acoustic nor does it have an f-hole.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: vedran ()
Date: October 9, 2005 13:09

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cool, Vedran - thanks! is that the current
> see-through guitar?
> it's not the Ampeg Dan Armstrong Keith had from 69
> to 71, though

Yeah... It's probably not the exact same one, but it is the same... I wonder on what track it is being used...


Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: jss ()
Date: October 9, 2005 14:54

my question is...does anyone know what the symbols stand for? ...by the way sssoul, you have been putting up some fantastic pics....chris m how are things on the left coast?

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: October 9, 2005 20:06

Howdy JSS. Things are well though I'm up to my eyes in work and school. I barely have time to play my guitar! Speaking of which, I should log off and get some licks in while I can!

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: October 10, 2005 00:00

>> Mathijs, that one's not used on Midnight Rambler. It may be capoed at the 7th fret, but Keith said in an interview in 2002:
"That was done on a full-bodied, Australian electric-acoustic, f-hole guitar ... <<

i just recently inquired about that one in the context of Gimmie Shelter, and Mathijs identified it as a Maton (thank you!),
which is part of why i'm so intrigued by his statement about this trippy Les Paul.

but meanwhile here's the Maton website if you want to see their current line: [www.maton.com.au]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-24 02:01 by with sssoul.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: October 10, 2005 22:31

eureka! for a 1970 sighting of the psychedelic-painted Les Paul,
go over to the StonesVikings' wonderful site and have a look at the 1970 Stockholm photos:
[www.stonesvikings.com]
if you scroll down to the concert photos, the first one is of Keith headed for the stage,
cradling that psychedelic baby of his. thank you StonesVikings!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-01 12:55 by with sssoul.

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: October 10, 2005 23:40

Well, I always had doubt about his statment that he used the Maton for Midnight Rambler, as these Matons were basically just copies of Gretsch guitars with Filtertron pickups, and these sound much more like single coils, much more trebly like P90's. I always considered the sound to be much more acking to a Les Paul neck pickup, but somewhat darker and with a bit more phasing thrown in -and this is the exact description of an Ebony board Les Paul Custon. Now we have this photo, I think we have the prove fitting the sound we hear!

About the Ampeg Dan Armstrong: Keith used these last during the first couple 1972 shows. His original two were stolen at Nellcote, and he replaced these for the 1972 tour. According to himself, they weren't as good as the original prototypes he had, and he would never play them again, until the MSG show for Bitch. From the picture I can't see if it's an original or a reissue. Wood plays one as well, and he plays a reissue, you can tell by the new type bridge which is intonated. The original one's were just a piece of fretwire.

The les Paul on the Gibson brochure is an original 1954 Black Beauty.

Mathijs

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: October 11, 2005 09:22

thank you Mathijs!

trippy Les Paul
Posted by: browneyedgirl ()
Date: October 16, 2005 22:42

I think this is the earliest photographic evidence of the trippy Les Paul that I have come across so far...These are from the May 12, 1968 NME Poll Winners Concert...





--- both photos are from the book The Rolling Stones Unseen Archives

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: October 17, 2005 06:31

Very Cool! Thanks BrownEyedGirl

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: chippy ()
Date: October 17, 2005 06:42

ya tanks ,,i never seen that 2nd pic

Re: another guitar inquiry ...
Posted by: Milo Yammbag ()
Date: October 17, 2005 06:59

I think KR used a 3 PU LP for a few songs with the Wino's in 1988, onstage in Hollywood

Milo, NYC
I was a stupid Jerk

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