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Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: May 10, 2019 16:11

Quote
HMS
Out Of Control sounds different on HONK to my ears. Haven´t heard the original studio version in a long time, but isn´t there a trumpet that is missing on HONK? The Honk-version also seems to sound less clean and slick than the original... it also seems to rock harder. Have to compare, but I think there is some different mixing done, at least for some parts of the song... Or is it only my old ears fooling me - very confusing.
It is essentially the same track with some compression applied.
From Japanese Bridges To Babylon CD [VJCP 25333]

From recent EU Honk CD 2

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: May 10, 2019 16:47

There you go . They've messed with the original dynamic range.

These days this compression is usually applied to achieve a more impressive sound for the typical portable device listener. In this case by raising the level of the quiet bits relative to the loud bits.

In the old days it was often used in the context of compilations to squeeze more tracks onto a 12 " record. Then by reducing the levels of the loud bits [..and sometimes reducing the low frequency content...'cause that takes up a lot of room on an LP too ! ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-10 17:10 by Spud.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: May 10, 2019 17:47

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
HMS
Out Of Control sounds different on HONK to my ears. Haven´t heard the original studio version in a long time, but isn´t there a trumpet that is missing on HONK? The Honk-version also seems to sound less clean and slick than the original... it also seems to rock harder. Have to compare, but I think there is some different mixing done, at least for some parts of the song... Or is it only my old ears fooling me - very confusing.
It is essentially the same track with some compression applied.
From Japanese Bridges To Babylon CD [VJCP 25333]

From recent EU Honk CD 2

The remastered track (which is basically the 2009 remaster) is about 1 dB louder. The original B2B CD was already quite compressed and loud. On the remastered track you get the impression that everything is more upfront because it's mastered a bit louder (than the original track). But they are the same.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: May 10, 2019 18:35

Chart-Update: HONK is after 3 weeks now #20 in Germany - [www.OffizielleCharts.de] .

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: May 10, 2019 19:07

This loudness war thingy is indeed worrisome. It reminds me of the period around 1980 when Bob Clearmountain was associated with making single mixes for car stereos.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: CJFP ()
Date: May 10, 2019 19:12

I really like HONK. I think it was a good idea and has a good variety of great music.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: May 10, 2019 19:12

Quote
SomeGuy
This loudness war thingy is indeed worrisome. It reminds me of the period around 1980 when Bob Clearmountain was associated with making single mixes for car stereos.

The so-called "loudness war" is trending since the mid-nineties. One of the first band to have a CD louder than everyone else was Oasis with Morning Glory back in 1995.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: runrudolph ()
Date: May 10, 2019 19:18

Got it from the library for E 2,0.
Very happy i did not buy it. The one track i love is Dancing with Mr D. ,live.
Great stuff from the city where i used to live.
Jeroen

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: May 10, 2019 19:28

Quote
kowalski
Quote
SomeGuy
This loudness war thingy is indeed worrisome. It reminds me of the period around 1980 when Bob Clearmountain was associated with making single mixes for car stereos.

The so-called "loudness war" is trending since the mid-nineties. One of the first band to have a CD louder than everyone else was Oasis with Morning Glory back in 1995.

I know. Other examples would be Rush's Vapor Trails album of 2002, they even re-released a toned down version of it (I didn't bother to get it though), and Iggy & The Stooges' remastered Raw Power, personally overseen by mr. Pop himself to purposely have "everything in the red" (liner notes in the accompanying booklet) and thus totally unlistenable. Both albums weren't very good to begin with, though, but that's another story.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: mailexile67 ()
Date: May 13, 2019 12:20

@Georgelicks
after 3 weeks what are the position charts in Us,Uk and Italy and the most high position reached with the related number of copies sold?Thanks in advance!

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Date: May 13, 2019 13:24

Unfortunately, compressed mastering sounds just wrong.
They can make radio mix or whatever, but the standard CDs should be in Virgin mastering style (1990s). I think that 40 Licks still has decent dynamic range on most songs.
I do not like the new mastering with compression at all ....

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: May 13, 2019 13:29

It's ruining a lot of music for me ...

...and is the main reason for modern remasters often being very disappointing from a sound quality point of view.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Date: May 13, 2019 13:34

Yes, I mostly prefer the older ones.

A Bigger Bang unfortunately was also "hot" mastered. Here versions with good dynamic range do not exist.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: May 13, 2019 13:59

Quote
jumpingjackflash5
Unfortunately, compressed mastering sounds just wrong.
They can make radio mix or whatever, but the standard CDs should be in Virgin mastering style (1990s). I think that 40 Licks still has decent dynamic range on most songs.
I do not like the new mastering with compression at all ....
Unfortunately they are forced to compress everything and do volume adjustments in order to put all tracks on the same page. Otherwise the listening experience will be completely ruined. Just check that stupid For In Store Play Only US promo [Virgin 0946 3 41565 2 3] or therollingstonesinstoresampler EU [CDVDJ 3013] that was issued to promote A Bigger Bang. They used ABB tracks in their own mastering and the rest in slightly modified (2002 40 Licks) Virgin mastering. One should turn the knob back and forth because it is not possible to listen entire disc on the same level.

PS. The same mess could be found on American Express Promo Sampler [3648712.0094636487120]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-13 14:04 by ironbelly.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: May 13, 2019 14:47

Quote
jumpingjackflash5
Yes, I mostly prefer the older ones.

A Bigger Bang unfortunately was also "hot" mastered. Here versions with good dynamic range do not exist.


The version in the Abbey Road 1971-2016 vinyl Remasters box is much improved in this respect...and the whole album far more enjoyable as a result.

This boxed set as a whole is a bit of a curate's egg ...But ABB is like a whole new album .
It sounds so much more natural, with instruments & voices breathing more like they should.

As ABB was digital from the outset.This proves that it is production values & choices, rather than the technology itself, that are the problem with so many Digital era releases.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: May 13, 2019 15:01

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
jumpingjackflash5
Unfortunately, compressed mastering sounds just wrong.
They can make radio mix or whatever, but the standard CDs should be in Virgin mastering style (1990s). I think that 40 Licks still has decent dynamic range on most songs.
I do not like the new mastering with compression at all ....
Unfortunately they are forced to compress everything and do volume adjustments in order to put all tracks on the same page. Otherwise the listening experience will be completely ruined. Just check that stupid For In Store Play Only US promo [Virgin 0946 3 41565 2 3] or therollingstonesinstoresampler EU [CDVDJ 3013] that was issued to promote A Bigger Bang. They used ABB tracks in their own mastering and the rest in slightly modified (2002 40 Licks) Virgin mastering. One should turn the knob back and forth because it is not possible to listen entire disc on the same level.

PS. The same mess could be found on American Express Promo Sampler [3648712.0094636487120]

I think some of us might be kind of at crossed purposes here.

If you are making a compilation , regardless of the format [& digital or analogue], you'll have to re-master the material for a more uniform playback level and a consistent quality of sound from track to track.

This does not mean however that we have to "brick wall " the whole thing to the point where its all just a loud & soul-less noise !

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: May 13, 2019 15:22

GasLightStreet can talk sound, remastering, compression.

To me, thru Spotify, HONK sounds very good. Ironically I usually need my car w/CD player to get more depth and feel, but I have not moved HONK off Spotify yet,
I’m enjoying it.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Meise ()
Date: May 13, 2019 16:20

I created my own HONK incl. the same songs and unreleased live versions (found them on youtube). It took me about an hour, and I spent nothing but time and power for my notebook ...

I'm a huge and die-hard Stones fan, but folks: who really needs that compilation with the same contents over and over again? If it was for a poor band's money I'd understand ...

________________________________________

I can't imagine a world without the Rolling Stones! (A. Erthegun)

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Date: May 13, 2019 17:16

Quote
Meise
I created my own HONK incl. the same songs and unreleased live versions (found them on youtube). It took me about an hour, and I spent nothing but time and power for my notebook ...

I'm a huge and die-hard Stones fan, but folks: who really needs that compilation with the same contents over and over again? If it was for a poor band's money I'd understand ...

Surely, the live album must have been worth the relatively cheap price? What was it again, £20?

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: HonkeyTonkFlash ()
Date: May 13, 2019 17:45

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Meise
I created my own HONK incl. the same songs and unreleased live versions (found them on youtube). It took me about an hour, and I spent nothing but time and power for my notebook ...

I'm a huge and die-hard Stones fan, but folks: who really needs that compilation with the same contents over and over again? If it was for a poor band's money I'd understand ...

Surely, the live album must have been worth the relatively cheap price? What was it again, £20?

With digital formats on Google Play, I only purchased the live cuts. I had everything else. The live cuts are actually much better than I expected; just not too thrilled hearing guest stars on certain tracks, even if they sound good, I like my Stones unadulterated!

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: May 13, 2019 17:53

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Meise
I created my own HONK incl. the same songs and unreleased live versions (found them on youtube). It took me about an hour, and I spent nothing but time and power for my notebook ...

I'm a huge and die-hard Stones fan, but folks: who really needs that compilation with the same contents over and over again? If it was for a poor band's money I'd understand ...

Surely, the live album must have been worth the relatively cheap price? What was it again, £20?

Yep, I paid £13 for mine which is not a bad price for a single CD let alone three.
I see it that I got two free discs of hits alongside a new live album.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Cristiano Radtke ()
Date: May 13, 2019 17:55

Quote
Deltics
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Meise
I created my own HONK incl. the same songs and unreleased live versions (found them on youtube). It took me about an hour, and I spent nothing but time and power for my notebook ...

I'm a huge and die-hard Stones fan, but folks: who really needs that compilation with the same contents over and over again? If it was for a poor band's money I'd understand ...

Surely, the live album must have been worth the relatively cheap price? What was it again, £20?

Yep, I paid £13 for mine which is not a bad price for a single CD let alone three.
I see it that I got two free discs of hits alongside a new live album.

Good point of view! thumbs up

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: May 13, 2019 18:06

Quote
Cristiano Radtke
Quote
Deltics
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Meise
I created my own HONK incl. the same songs and unreleased live versions (found them on youtube). It took me about an hour, and I spent nothing but time and power for my notebook ...

I'm a huge and die-hard Stones fan, but folks: who really needs that compilation with the same contents over and over again? If it was for a poor band's money I'd understand ...

Surely, the live album must have been worth the relatively cheap price? What was it again, £20?

Yep, I paid £13 for mine which is not a bad price for a single CD let alone three.
I see it that I got two free discs of hits alongside a new live album.

Good point of view! thumbs up

Exactly my take as well.
Not only a new live album but current and with recordings of a few songs I was in attendance at. All for less than half the price of a concert t-shirt. Great deal and great road trip cd's!

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: May 13, 2019 18:16

It´s been seven years since GRRR. A new generation of music fans needed to be introduced to the Stones´ great body of work. HONK wasn´t designed for us die-hards. For those they offered the bonus-disc-version (at a very reasonable price I´d like to say).
I do not need disc 1 & 2 but listened to it and it was a lot of fun to hear the songs in random order. Disc 3 is ok (i think Dancing With Mr. D is much better than the original). Every band/artist releases a sampler from time to time, it´s part of the business, so I don´t mind it all.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: May 13, 2019 18:22

Quote
Cristiano Radtke
Quote
Deltics
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Meise
I created my own HONK incl. the same songs and unreleased live versions (found them on youtube). It took me about an hour, and I spent nothing but time and power for my notebook ...

I'm a huge and die-hard Stones fan, but folks: who really needs that compilation with the same contents over and over again? If it was for a poor band's money I'd understand ...

Surely, the live album must have been worth the relatively cheap price? What was it again, £20?

Yep, I paid £13 for mine which is not a bad price for a single CD let alone three.
I see it that I got two free discs of hits alongside a new live album.

Good point of view! thumbs up

Indeed it is...but a pity the trick won't work with vinyl sad smiley

I aint paying sixty odd quid to get those few new live tracks

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 13, 2019 18:57

Quote
rogerriffin
Today I can afford this poster with Mexican CD!


Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 13, 2019 19:25

Quote
35love
GasLightStreet can talk sound, remastering, compression.

To me, thru Spotify, HONK sounds very good. Ironically I usually need my car w/CD player to get more depth and feel, but I have not moved HONK off Spotify yet,
I’m enjoying it.

I've found the UMe remasters to be horrible so to buy HONK would be just as worthless as any of the other UMe reissues. I chose to not replace any of the Virgin remasters and thanks to the scam reissue of SOME GIRLS, I had to buy it again. At the time there was discussion about the remaster lack of quality, so I uploaded it, and I was absolutely floored at the difference. I replaced it with the Virgin remaster.

Mick listened to the Virgin remasters, he was involved in the process with Bob Ludwig. He has obviously not been involved with Mr Brickwall, Marcus Stephen Marcussen and whatever Stewart Whitmore did.

With playlists, everything up to STEEL WHEELS sounds great, then things start to get louder with tracks from VOODOO and BRIDGES and then almost unlistenable with BANG and B&L. So there's huge volume differences between the Virgin 1971-1989 and 1994 onward.

I suppose, for sanity's sake, to have everything sound the same level, one might get HONK.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: May 13, 2019 21:27

GasLightStreet have you actually listened to HONK! ?
I do not ask in sarcasm
rather we’ve agreed before on brick walled sound
and whatever master mix for Spotify (not selling) was put down,
I have been surprised just how fantastic it sounds.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: May 13, 2019 23:03

P.S.
Those brain scan purple photos need some back up explaining.
Don’t throw HONK under label brick wall or oh yeah exactly 1987’s version it’ll be the same
Actually listen to it.
GLS hope NO gets a Dome show and you go.

Re: HONK - Limited Edition compilation out April 19
Posted by: LazarusSmith ()
Date: May 13, 2019 23:33

Quote
HMS
It´s been seven years since GRRR. A new generation of music fans needed to be introduced to the Stones´ great body of work. HONK wasn´t designed for us die-hards. For those they offered the bonus-disc-version (at a very reasonable price I´d like to say).
I do not need disc 1 & 2 but listened to it and it was a lot of fun to hear the songs in random order. Disc 3 is ok (i think Dancing With Mr. D is much better than the original). Every band/artist releases a sampler from time to time, it´s part of the business, so I don´t mind it all.

What is the better intro to "great Stones" for the newbie, HONK or HOT ROCKS?

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