i don't think sales has much to do with great recorded music in studio or remote live performance. not to me. never has. airplay meant something back in the day.
but never sales. i got tons of albums the culture either massively caught up with; or totally ignored; and everywhere in between. don't give two poops in a hole about this kinda stuff in any serious personal way that affects what I listened to; and what i listen 'for' as i crash genres and go wherever I want to go.
back in the day, so to speak; we fancied we were leading the market; not really entirely true but more than traces of it were, not following it.
then again, we were living in day to day reality thru the years with stuff
as it came out; and across the airwaves first pretty much...and how those
periods and artists and shows are 'legendary.' Many deservedly so, and I attended
some of those, unaware and uncaring about the larger historical perspective; or what would happen to those artists or their careers.
it's interesting though; i like it; it relieves me that Hot Rocks is the massive big winner as far as charts and sales; cause it scoops up bitz of albums that are massively great pre-Golden era even; and i''m not losing that part of their legacy seemingly; those tracks still get me.

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Doxa

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Some girls knew it was the best-selling album (leaving out compilations), but I'm glad to see VL right behind LIB, I always thought it's a great album.

SOME GIRLS is their best selling studio album because Americans decided during the summer of 1978 that it was the best thing one can get. That explains its huge sales (6.8 m units sold only in the US market). It was a great seller all over the world, but, for example, in Europe it has sold about the same as VOODOO LOUNGE did, both EXILE and STICKY FINGERS selling more. In UK, BLUE & LONESOME has sold almost as many copies as SOME GIRLS!

Anyway, my biggest concern has always been relatively small sales of BEGGARS BANQUET. It is one of their most hailed albums ever but that doesn't quite translate in sales.

- Doxa

Sorry but ... what did the Americans do to you? Do you mean to say that Americans are less important? I am European, but your speech does not seem acceptable to me or at least I don't understand it.

What?! How did you get that sort of impression that I have something against Americans? I just described some factual statistics based on geography. The huge numbers of SOME GIRLS are based on the fact that it was an exceptional success in US market. In the rest of the world, not so much (even though still a great success, but nothing extraordinary to stand out). Over 61% of its over-all sales derive from the US - that percentage number is exceptional. Typically, from the mid-60's to the late 80's, quite exactly half of the sales of any new studio album were America-based, varying just by a percent or two (for some reason, that started to drop quite dramatically from the 90's on, A BIGGER BANG and BLUE & LONESOME having any longer something like 20-25%). The closest to SOME GIRLS are BEGGARS BANQUET (55%) and TATTOO YOU (54%).

For example, in the case of another huge seller, EXILE, the percentage is 47%. With STICKY FINGERS that is 50%. Of later huge selling albums, VOODOO LOUNGE has only 37%. In fact, outside the US market all of those three albums have sold about the same: STICKY FINGERS 4,65 m. SOME GIRLS 4,4 m, EXILE 4,25 m, VOODOO LOUNGE 4,0 m.

This is just statistics with no any moral or judgmental concerns. I really can't understand why any sort of anti-Americanism can be drawn out of this.

The most I can say is that SOME GIRLS hitted big time in America 1978, like no any other album by theirs before or since and by a big margin (except HOT ROCKS). Great! But this was not the case globally.

Some other similar observations:

If we take their first album being both UK and US version (ENGLANDS NEWEST HITMAKERS), I could say that that album sold nicely because quite many young Brittons decided to buy it. 36% of its 2.5 m sales derive solely from UK. No any other album is even close by that percentage number of Brittons buying them. With its 840 000 sales it has sold there, for example, twice as much as 14 years later released SOME GIRLS. Do I have now something against Brittons?

Then I can say that A BIGGER BANG was quite an okay international success because, unlike Americans, quite many Europeans still thought that a new Rolling Stones album is still worth of a purchase. Almost half of its 2.6 m sales are from there. No any album since their first has been so Europe-driven by sales. The album has sold almost twice as many copies in Europe than in US. By contrast, SOME GIRLS has sold in US almost three times more copies than in Europe. In Europe SOME GIRLS only sold about twice as many copies as A BIGGER BANG. In US it sold over ten times more. Do I now have something against Europeans?

Okay, enough of sales here, this is a HONK thread. I better open a new thread for stuff like this.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 02:05 by Doxa.

well i never got the impression you didn't like us Doxa.
Little Richard is an American. Case closed.
Speaking of cases, very Many of us have been in jail, just like Chuck Berry was; only for different stuff! sorta.
Hell, we've had Keith AND Mick in American jails. That's Americana!
That and Ray Davies album, "Americana," Ray's from another level
and has international prescience as a historian; he's a muswell hillbilly boy
but his heart... never mind. that's nirvana. if you consider seattle american; many of us do not. They like the Stones in Seattle. They usually do well at american gigs i've noticed, those nasty, nasty British boys. my goodness.
the Stones have the right kind of American crudness and curtness if you give them a chance; it just has that weird accent; holy moly; the mother land of such great writers and the way they talk is ridiculous; whoa. you have to sit through the first twenty mintues of Hard Days Night to understand swhat the fruck they're saying; then you find out; whoa. pauls the cute one apparently. not aging wellish; the stitchjobs help friggin dam beetle...


and it's interesting data; but what struck me was the fact that
America is so big and populated; living here, it's like fifty different countries in a lot of respects; which is cool and all that; except for our neighbors North and South; (including Mexico but not all the South American and Latin countries), the land mass is pretty much an entire continent...with huge variances state to state; and in big states, county to county, population divergence or whatever that's technically called. also all the generations of buyers, even 'early' on in the period we're discussing around SG, had already; how you say it?
well there was the first buying generation; kids of 12 like me at the time to probs people up to thirty generally? in the early sixties; well middish when they struck super Satisfaction hard. i think of them really arriving, at least way over here in the States, in '65' tho yes we bought the first one on the strength of the airplay of singles; and also those Ed Sullivan shows were very, very exciting; even at the time; tho i didn't calculate as such; it was heavier than The Beatles and The beats did super fine; it was tv; not a concert; george was sick; the sound and mix was a little off; but i felt that impact and won't dismiss it casually; but truly; you watch those first Sullivan Stones show; and they are impeccable and beautiful and solid and it's just precious and beautiful stuff. all of them; it was there. singing bill; lol, it was super....the fact that it got better is astounding.

anyway; i extrapolated hops style; just saying that Doxa's stats are interesting as part of the picture but also there are probably other variables that effect that too; even in usa.
i'm not back east now but even say, the NYC tri-state area
( i grew up in and around)
which is very heavy populated sales opportunities;
i mean megalopolis quantum style...there were albums and songs that went one way or the other domestically in the States probably...
? ... as to region or season--or the general adding up of New younger fans and buyers when the golden period buyers were still active>
it's interesting but i'm not sure what how to meaningfully track Honk after a few months either. it'll be interesting to see how this does and what else it bumps back into the charts, or up significantly; i wish the same for the new kids that i wish for myself but no longer do;
get that album and listen all the way through as a matter of course; not even rating it; just sorta letting it do what it does. they've knocked me over with rhythm and joy so many times...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 08:18 by hopkins.

ya know? Northern New England is sorta southern French Canadian; lots of French names going back to Colonial times.
Los Angeles is sort of the Mexican and Mexican-American fans market too.
the Mexican male pop singers on their pop hit radio, many of them; are so excellent and skilled; and the production,
and percussion elemements especially, are Excellente; beyond State of the Art, if there is such a designation.
On a lot of what I hear anyway, if I dial around the many Spanish speaking stations here That's just a couple of examples.
it's very diverse population within sales markets, especially in pockets.

gosh, we had a link here on iorr, that took you to a Globe map; and wherever
you aimed the mouse; you'd 'dial' in a radio station at that geographic location.
that was so cool; i don't know how to find it anymore, though.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 08:31 by hopkins.

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Doxa

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Some girls knew it was the best-selling album (leaving out compilations), but I'm glad to see VL right behind LIB, I always thought it's a great album.

SOME GIRLS is their best selling studio album because Americans decided during the summer of 1978 that it was the best thing one can get. That explains its huge sales (6.8 m units sold only in the US market). It was a great seller all over the world, but, for example, in Europe it has sold about the same as VOODOO LOUNGE did, both EXILE and STICKY FINGERS selling more. In UK, BLUE & LONESOME has sold almost as many copies as SOME GIRLS!

Anyway, my biggest concern has always been relatively small sales of BEGGARS BANQUET. It is one of their most hailed albums ever but that doesn't quite translate in sales.

- Doxa

Ugh, the 'singles era' when songs didn't necessarily appear on albums. In retrospect that album could have used a healthy shot of 'Jumpin' Jack Flash" in it's track listing....That would have done the the trick.

Good stuff, hopkins, like always! I agree with you that there is more than statistics, especially in trying to figure out the success in such a huge and diverse market such as USA. But, of course, a similar thing can be said of an entity called 'Europe', which aren't that homogenous either (not that the countries differ culturally from each other, but even within a certain more homogenous area, there are differences in reception of the Stones, such as, for some reason, Spain has been always more a 'Stones country' than Italy, and Sweden more than Finland). My point was just to look a bit behind the over-all sale numbers. Some interesting - me thinks - observations can be made by comparing the relative success between different markets.

I think over-all in order to get a huge international hit album with massive sales - that requires to hit big time America. The biggest differences between individual sales of albums can be seen there. The huge sellers are really huge in compared to the rest. Such is a power and significance of American market. Also that of the over-sales of albums sinking down, as we have wittnessed lately, that's also a trend started in US market. I speak here about the Stones, but I think that applies to record business in general.

Of that, one could make a several intersting observations. Traditionally, from the 60's to late 80's/early 90's, the success of the Stones internationally in terms of selling albums was a rather constant:

USA: 50%
Europe: 35%
The rest: 15%

So that's the two huge markets, USA and Europe, and in that order, from where the Stones made their living. The band, like rock&roll, was really a 'Western' thing. That goes along with seeing in where the Stones always liked to promote their albums by touring.

However, gradually from the early 90's on, the situation has changed. My rough estimation at the moment (based mostly on the sales of BRIDGES TO BABYLON, A BIGGER BANG and BLUE & LONESOME) is:

Europe: 50%
USA: 25%
The rest: 25%

That's the effect of 'globalisation', which also can be reflected in their touring. The Stones truely are a more international phenomenon nowadays than in the past. But interestingly, the old continent of Europe has taken the place of US as their most important market. In realistic terms that means that the downhill in record sales has not affected so much in Europe than in USA. It surely has, but not so much. At least yet.

Lastly, a funny anecdote about BLUE & LONESOME. Like many have pointed out, it is rather close to from where they once started: that of doing blues covers. But there are some other similarities between it and their first album.

Firstly, both THE ROLLING STONES/ENGLAND'S NEWEST HITMAKERS and BLUE & LONESOME have sold about the same amount of copies each, roughly 2.5 million (I hope georgelicks could give us a more strict number of the latter, mine is estimation). Still both can be seen as big number one hit albums by the criteria of their day. But that tells more about the state of album business in 1964 or 2016 and how bad it is doing if with numbers like that we can talk about big sellers. It's like going back to the 'singles era', album being a secondary product, nowadays singles being replaced by streaming individual songs. True hits are once again basically individual songs, not collections of them.

Secondly, and I think more interestingly, there is a striking similarity between those two albums: each sold about the same amount of copies both in UK and US markets. With their first album the number in both sides of Atlantic is something like 800 000-840 000 sold copies, with BLUE & LONESOME the number is about 350 000-400 000. Just reflect those numbers and how well the British are relatively speaking doing! That's like 'going back home' to the place from they first started. It looks like 'the sweet old country that I come from' has re-established their love for their prodigal sons. Even if we leave relativity and context out, and talk instead in realistic terms, BLUE & LONESOME has been an amazing success in their homeland. There aren't many studio albums in their history ever that has sold more copies than BLUE & LONESOME has (six are in the class of their own: their first two, AFTERMATH, LET IT BLEED, STICKY FINGERS and EXILE, selling from 600 000 to 875 000). It sold more than twice as much as their two previous ones (and many albums from the 60's, 70's and 80's) and approximately about same amount as such classical albums as BEGGARS BANQUET, SOME GIRLS and TATTOO YOU. Taken the nature of today's (dying) record industry, that's an incredible achievement. Hats off to 'poor old England'!

- Doxa



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 14:59 by Doxa.

When you mention Europe, The Netherlands are one of the most Stones orientated countries. Stones are very big here. Good album sales and shows sell out fast.jeroen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 14:44 by runrudolph.

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runrudolph
When you mention Europe, The Netherlands are one of the most Stones orientated countries. Stones are very big here. Good album sales and shows sell out fast.jeroen

Indeed!

- Doxa

----



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 16:23 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Doxa

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Some girls knew it was the best-selling album (leaving out compilations), but I'm glad to see VL right behind LIB, I always thought it's a great album.

SOME GIRLS is their best selling studio album because Americans decided during the summer of 1978 that it was the best thing one can get. That explains its huge sales (6.8 m units sold only in the US market). It was a great seller all over the world, but, for example, in Europe it has sold about the same as VOODOO LOUNGE did, both EXILE and STICKY FINGERS selling more. In UK, BLUE & LONESOME has sold almost as many copies as SOME GIRLS!

Anyway, my biggest concern has always been relatively small sales of BEGGARS BANQUET. It is one of their most hailed albums ever but that doesn't quite translate in sales.

- Doxa

Sorry but ... what did the Americans do to you? Do you mean to say that Americans are less important? I am European, but your speech does not seem acceptable to me or at least I don't understand it.

What?! How did you get that sort of impression that I have something against Americans? I just described some factual statistics based on geography. The huge numbers of SOME GIRLS are based on the fact that it was an exceptional success in US market. In the rest of the world, not so much (even though still a great success, but nothing extraordinary to stand out). Over 61% of its over-all sales derive from the US - that percentage number is exceptional. Typically, from the mid-60's to the late 80's, quite exactly half of the sales of any new studio album were America-based, varying just by a percent or two (for some reason, that started to drop quite dramatically from the 90's on, A BIGGER BANG and BLUE & LONESOME having any longer something like 20-25%). The closest to SOME GIRLS are BEGGARS BANQUET (55%) and TATTOO YOU (54%).

For example, in the case of another huge seller, EXILE, the percentage is 47%. With STICKY FINGERS that is 50%. Of later huge selling albums, VOODOO LOUNGE has only 37%. In fact, outside the US market all of those three albums have sold about the same: STICKY FINGERS 4,65 m. SOME GIRLS 4,4 m, EXILE 4,25 m, VOODOO LOUNGE 4,0 m.

This is just statistics with no any moral or judgmental concerns. I really can't understand why any sort of anti-Americanism can be drawn out of this.

The most I can say is that SOME GIRLS hitted big time in America 1978, like no any other album by theirs before or since and by a big margin (except HOT ROCKS). Great! But this was not the case globally.

Some other similar observations:

If we take their first album being both UK and US version (ENGLANDS NEWEST HITMAKERS), I could say that that album sold nicely because quite many young Brittons decided to buy it. 36% of its 2.5 m sales derive solely from UK. No any other album is even close by that percentage number of Brittons buying them. With its 840 000 sales it has sold there, for example, twice as much as 14 years later released SOME GIRLS. Do I have now something against Brittons?

Then I can say that A BIGGER BANG was quite an okay international success because, unlike Americans, quite many Europeans still thought that a new Rolling Stones album is still worth of a purchase. Almost half of its 2.6 m sales are from there. No any album since their first has been so Europe-driven by sales. The album has sold almost twice as many copies in Europe than in US. By contrast, SOME GIRLS has sold in US almost three times more copies than in Europe. In Europe SOME GIRLS only sold about twice as many copies as A BIGGER BANG. In US it sold over ten times more. Do I now have something against Europeans?

Okay, enough of sales here, this is a HONK thread. I better open a new thread for stuff like this.

- Doxa

No, that's all relevant. Everyone knows that hits comps are only for money, nothing else. When the Stones toured in 1975 they didn't have their new record together so they threw together MADE IN THE SHADE - for the sake of having something new.

I like that comp but it's essentially pointless in the big picture. Culturally it made sense - they were recent songs - but that's just its own convenience. But it was just a money grab. Which they probably needed badly back then.

HONK is just something UMe did. It does make sense to put something out, it's just too bad it's not anything actually new. Horrible album title aside, it does sum it all up in a pretty good way, though.

SOME GIRLS came out at the right time - after NYC had its meltdown and change was everywhere. It was perfect, it was full of different genres and, horrible sound quality of the mixing aside, it's a pretty damn good record.

It connected.

ATTENTION!

For all those of you running out and buying Honk!, after sinking a bunch of money into all the versions of GRRR!, you may want to keep your powder dry.


I understand from a close source that I have with the band, that they are working on a new compilation for 2022, their 60th Anniversary.

Working title is "Gazoinks!".

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runrudolph
When you mention Europe, The Netherlands are one of the most Stones orientated countries. Stones are very big here. Good album sales and shows sell out fast.jeroen

Is it coz the group have their main office there..and their various companies are registered there. Not for tax purposes of course!

Made In The Shade was also competing with the Klein release Metamorphosis.

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treaclefingers
ATTENTION!

For all those of you running out and buying Honk!, after sinking a bunch of money into all the versions of GRRR!, you may want to keep your powder dry.


I understand from a close source that I have with the band, that they are working on a new compilation for 2022, their 60th Anniversary.

Working title is "Gazoinks!".

saving now.
i understand they plan on releasing the remastered re-issue at the same time as the Original for Complete-ists.
It will be a limited edition of however many you want to purchase online only; or in stores; or anywhere pretty much.
it will have the big ones the other big ones didn't have
they are always thinking
some of them
and i appreciate it
they could be doing nothing and it would have roughly the same effect
as if they were all in a basement in Timbuktoo inside yak costumes
like a lot of bands like to do to preserve their anonymity cuz the fame
thing can really burn you out; butlers change you have to remember everyone's name
or they won't sign the contract that severs the tips of their tongue.
speaking of tongues; the new edition
of the limited edition and the simultaneous re-master that is numbered or not,
well, i'll get back to you; if i talk too much; they shut down the helpful info; the new albums almost ready and all that so i have to be careful,
one of their managers feels that releasing anything spoils the tension and there's apparently fans going off the deep end,
which is newsworthy in small pockets of smaller markets which is everywhere they won't cough up couple of grand for a tee, ok; that memo from turner thing? give her a spinnie,
i'll be back; the interns quit; the periscope squad for the new tour consists of nobody...everything's going according to plan; they are professionals after all



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 23:28 by hopkins.

maybe they will sing on the same mike at one show and you can maybe snap it if they ain't snatched your electronic media or blacked out the entire 'digital area' with a satellite with a big-ass tongue out there; and don't even argue w me about the veracity of that one; it's easier to get ex nasa employees to talk than ex-Stones employees; and we've got the skinny legs and all.
ok, honk; cute; i can't wait for 'shift' and of course the 'parking brake' series' only they spell it 'break' in homage to Andrew; since they lost main songwriter bill, who was slacking off on sw obviously; it's been a nightmare behind the scenes. when they asked Rod Stewart to ghost write some material, Ronnie started nursing a resentment against K that had been brewing for many decades; people make fun of those old gypsy caravans; cursed people have and lived only to regret it; i can say no more; it doesn't have adtl according to a UK fan; so...i mean, if their own country-persons, fellow cibizens, are tattling; it's not a good sign; but that's only what they want you to think. sure it's just marketing; but that's everything wake up. you can't be virtually asleep; they didn't go to all the trouble to set up the matrix so people can not buy shit; it's not right; it's not going to be tolerated.
can't wait till April new stones album like or not; does it have iorr on it?
it damn well better

My nephew of 17 years has recently become passionate about the Rolling Stones, this Honk will be his first album and he already asks me if they will still play in Europe! Whether you like it or not, the Rolling Stones have this magnet for the new generation, it's the strength of rock'n roll and it doesn't matter if it's another collection for someone this is its first collection! Respect !

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Testify
My nephew of 17 years has recently become passionate about the Rolling Stones, this Honk will be his first album and he already asks me if they will still play in Europe! Whether you like it or not, the Rolling Stones have this magnet for the new generation, it's the strength of rock'n roll and it doesn't matter if it's another collection for someone this is its first collection! Respect !

yes yes yes that's what's so strikingly beautiful and powerful about music and songs for me; they find their own way; and peeps who are 'called' to them,
find their own way in their own time.
this Honk could be this young man's fascination I had with the London / Decca stuff. really, i'd look at every tiny picture a thousand times. i had the visceral feel of it as an everyday thing. i'd never want to be so cynical, except here whoooo boy let's have at em!!!
...but in the real world; i sorta think my first comment about this was leading to this obvious fact, multiplied all over the world.
i'm not a politician; it's not like i care to force others to dig what i dig; or know about it's cultural ramifications; but i'm asked and approached by a lot of tender young people in years; and for me now that includes people forty five and younger a lot of the times; certainly thirty and under; and many teen age friends too; i live in a big populated diverse area with all the urban as well as nature cuz it's by the sea...and when some local station plays some of this stuff on the beach i'm gonna be happy enough to cry; cause peeps turn it UP; they still DO; it GETS to people and i love that.
there's a Skate Park that's hugely popular; and near it a more local set-up where peeps bring their own super LOUD portable systems with huge 15 inch woofers sometimes; a lot of R&B and soul groove; often i'm one of the few Caucasian locals that live super close and hang there; i don't skate or blade but i'm nearby grooving...it's friendly open and fun but when they played State of Shock and Mick came pealing out; amidst like half dozen various Jacksons hits and similar heavy, heavy bass and beat stuff....and i just somehow glowed inside with fan pride; there hadn't been another white or UK person of color even, played on any of those tracks by any of those artists. it was very supremely cool ; i unhitched my cane and got right down with it; it's a shoulders thing.
Respect. Word.
Seriously; not the joking hops here. it felt great and liberating and wonderful;
i'd never taken that track half seriously; i do now.
their music; and they themselves, are important to me in ways i don't talk about too much; or try to splain cause fans already emotionally involved here...obviously; but there's lots of little ways outside my own deep fandom and what is unavoidably a semi-encyclopedic familiarity as a 60's kid with slight disposable income when this stuff was targeted toward that; and other young people; not a decade older and i was a KID, were making it happen...
...now it's sort of the same and very different of course as the decades turn; and i think it's fascinating; i guess my deep fan hopes were that the best of this work, which HAS been acknowledged Hugely in unprecedented ways, commensurate with the very explosive birth of electronic media and even TV Sets that The Stones did Not grow up with; especially Bill; but....
that radio i guess....yeh they can put out another Greatest Hits every few years and will. for some it will be the same magic door that opened when i heard rt. 66 on the first album; it was downhill from there for poor hops; there would he no getting away; i tried.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-26 01:24 by hopkins.

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Testify
My nephew of 17 years has recently become passionate about the Rolling Stones, this Honk will be his first album and he already asks me if they will still play in Europe! Whether you like it or not, the Rolling Stones have this magnet for the new generation, it's the strength of rock'n roll and it doesn't matter if it's another collection for someone this is its first collection! Respect !

Right on m8! You get it!

Okay, what/when do you think they will drop the next single from this compilation? Like how they released Wild Horses w/ Florence.

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treaclefingers
ATTENTION!

For all those of you running out and buying Honk!, after sinking a bunch of money into all the versions of GRRR!, you may want to keep your powder dry.


I understand from a close source that I have with the band, that they are working on a new compilation for 2022, their 60th Anniversary.

Working title is "Gazoinks!".

thanks for the heads-up, just pre-pre-ordered even tho the setlist prolly sux on that one too.

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Natlanta

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treaclefingers
ATTENTION!

For all those of you running out and buying Honk!, after sinking a bunch of money into all the versions of GRRR!, you may want to keep your powder dry.


I understand from a close source that I have with the band, that they are working on a new compilation for 2022, their 60th Anniversary.

Working title is "Gazoinks!".

thanks for the heads-up, just pre-pre-ordered even tho the setlist prolly sux on that one too.

Don't say that! Rumour has it will contain Brown Sugar, IORR and Miss You!

Quote
Testify
My nephew of 17 years has recently become passionate about the Rolling Stones, this Honk will be his first album and he already asks me if they will still play in Europe! Whether you like it or not, the Rolling Stones have this magnet for the new generation, it's the strength of rock'n roll and it doesn't matter if it's another collection for someone this is its first collection! Respect !

Right...so that raises an interesting thought.

Instead of assuming that yet another "Greatest Hitss" collection is just a repeated cynical money spinning exercise to extract more money from the same customer base ...

...We accept a marketing wisdom that you need a "new" product to win a new and younger audience ?

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Spud

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Testify
My nephew of 17 years has recently become passionate about the Rolling Stones, this Honk will be his first album and he already asks me if they will still play in Europe! Whether you like it or not, the Rolling Stones have this magnet for the new generation, it's the strength of rock'n roll and it doesn't matter if it's another collection for someone this is its first collection! Respect !

Right...so that raises an interesting thought.

Instead of assuming that yet another "Greatest Hitss" collection is just a repeated cynical money spinning exercise to extract more money from the same customer base ...

...We accept a marketing wisdom that you need a "new" product to win a new and younger audience ?

The premise is to make money - but that's not any news, no record companies like UMG or entertainers like the Stones are any charity organisations - but I think both of those suggestions hold true.

One needs to have "new" products in form of greatest hits collections to gather the potential money from casual costomers. The record companies are so smart that they know that not anyone is a hardcore fan who owns all of their catalogue so far in order to buy any new Rolling Stones albums. Even the hardcore fans were not born to be such, but needed to start from somewhere. A greatest hits collection is many times a good option for that. Then there are people occasionally going to their concerts, and easily want to have something to go with it, especially being stunned by the concert (The Stones, by the way, have promoted their greatest hits collections for ages now by touring them). Then there are people having a nostalgic feel, and want suddenly to update their youthful memories if a suitable easily reachable compilation is available ('"give me money back, this bloody Honk doesn't contain "Satisfaction" or any of those songs I remember, 'best of' my ass...). Then there are people who just out of curiosity and the feel of the moment under right cirmustances go: "Rolling Stones? Heard much about them. Why not..." Will any of these people buy anything else ever, doesn't really matter. One more sold copy anyway.

But the cruel fact the potential casual costumer-base as described above is getting smaller and smaller. The people interested in rock music are aging, and quite many of them already own some sort of Stones greatest hits collection. The kids just stream what they want, and one cannot do miracles with just one Eddie Sheeran track.. And they probably have told to their pas and grandpas already, 'please no new Rolling Stones hit compilation for this Xmas again'.

Here comes the cynicism. The record company knows that any big catalogue artist has a loyal hardcore fanbase who already own their whole catalogue. This is a resource one can, thankfully, always count on. As the years go by, more important they and their money is (thankfully, being rather aged, they are also rather wealthy and used to buy stuff). For them two different tactics are applied. First of all, there is an army of loyalists who buy anything anyway. For them go and release the product in as many as possible, variant forms and packages and they will buy them all. Then, secondly, there is not so-loyal, but a bit bigger bunch who need something extra to stimulate them to buy the product. Give them something non-released before (something like a couple of new tracks or a live album), and the deal is done.

Oh-la-la. Nothing else left to do than laugh all the way to bank.

- Doxa



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-26 11:37 by Doxa.

That's about the size of it ...

...which also covers the subject of our annoyance as fans when we repeatedly have to buy the latest Greatest Hits package in order to obtain the only official release of the increasingly typical snippets of new material included !

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Spud
That's about the size of it ...

...which also covers the subject of our annoyance as fans when we repeatedly have to buy the latest Greatest Hits package in order to obtain the only official release of the increasingly typical snippets of new material included !

That's it! That's what we really need! A new compilation....called 'Typical Snippets'

If they were to release a separate collection of these accumulated " Typical Snippets" , I'd actually be very happy...


...until I found that it was to be CD & Download only, with no vinyl !

I'm never bloody happy am I ?

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Spud
That's about the size of it ...

...which also covers the subject of our annoyance as fans when we repeatedly have to buy the latest Greatest Hits package in order to obtain the only official release of the increasingly typical snippets of new material included !

Very true.

But I think, as being Rolling Stones fans as we are, I think something kind of sense of relativity needs to be considered when discussing their greed. Or our economical sacrifices.

I mean, buying a twenty bucks record to get some new music is not that much if compare that to the concert ticket prices. And I am not just talking about their 30 000€ meet & greet packages...

But if that still hurts, one can heal the pain of own's conscience with a notion that buying any music in the form of old-time material formats is like giving a dying record industry a help in breathing. Or doing like charity to keep these companies alive and their products available.

Namely, that's what they are doing. It is the record companies, even big ones like UMG, that are desperate to get the money, not so much the Stones themselves any longer (pocket money for them whatever HONK makes compared to the incomes from their upcoming US tour). One could call HONK as a contract obligation, something go along with the UMG taking care of their storages, catalogue, merchandise, brand etc. (as the re-newed deal last year compromised), but, however, an individual album is more like a charity work or an act of a good will from the side of the Stones nowadays. Sure they get their share of the cake, but that's not where the big money is - the money which actually makes these guys move. Had their income based on selling records the Stones had released a new studio album (and several of them) ages ago. "No money innit", like Keef once said to Chuck Berry for not playing jazz.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-26 12:47 by Doxa.

Oh, I know , you're 100% right .

But we still feel better for having a moan don't we .

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Spud
Oh, I know , you're 100% right .

But we still feel better for having a moan don't we .

Hahaha... totally justified! There are ways of doing the self-therapy... mine is trying to see some sort of reason behind all of this....

- Doxa

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boogaloojef

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Doxa

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Testify
Some girls knew it was the best-selling album (leaving out compilations), but I'm glad to see VL right behind LIB, I always thought it's a great album.

SOME GIRLS is their best selling studio album because Americans decided during the summer of 1978 that it was the best thing one can get. That explains its huge sales (6.8 m units sold only in the US market). It was a great seller all over the world, but, for example, in Europe it has sold about the same as VOODOO LOUNGE did, both EXILE and STICKY FINGERS selling more. In UK, BLUE & LONESOME has sold almost as many copies as SOME GIRLS!

Anyway, my biggest concern has always been relatively small sales of BEGGARS BANQUET. It is one of their most hailed albums ever but that doesn't quite translate in sales.

- Doxa

I think it's concerning that something like Bridges to Babylon, Steel Wheels and even Emotional Rescue outsold better albums like Aftermath and Out Of Our Heads as well as Beggars Banquet.

Two of those three had huge tours. STEEL WHEELS was the water tank after a drought so it made sense that it would sell well. #5 single with Mixed Emotions, people were excited.

BRIDGES... no big hits on it but perhaps the singles got enough attention in other ways that made people interested. It's also a very diverse album so it's possible word of mouth helped out with that.

EMOTIONAL RESCUE had a huge single (#3) with the title track and it was on the back of SOME GIRLS - people were still paying attention. Their longest running #1 LP ever - without a tour. In the US anyway, Start Me Up got to #2, with a tour. So that gives the significance of Emotional Rescue's single release some weight as a hit song, which they bizarrely ignored on tours - they should've played it for the 1981-82 tours.