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Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: March 5, 2019 23:19

Over the years with the Brian, MT and Ron Wood Eras I accepted the fact that the new guitar guy next to Keith would always be Keith's fiddle and the guitar sound that Keith wanted was the sound of the rolling stones. So I can listen to the guitars in all eras and be okay. For me its the studio vocals from Beggars Through
IORR that I miss and Jagger's vocals live from 1969. Jagger's vocals from Exile are awesome and laid back in the mix and that's the voice I miss the most and not so much Mick Taylor's brilliance in the golden period.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 00:10

Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Midnight Toker
The Stomes best records were with MT.

No they weren't.


Sticky Fingers
Exile
GHS
IORR
not the Stones best records confused smiley surely these four in a row were their peak, four of the best in a row in 4 years.

Beggars Banquet (sans Taylor) is arguably better than all of those - definitely far better than the latter two imo.
And while I would currently name Exile as the best, Beggars, Let it Bleed, and Sticky Fingers sometimes get the nod.
As great as MT was, not everything recorded in the studio from his era can be considered "the best".
Live performances are another story though - everything he touched turned into GOLD...winking smiley ... (including the 50 and Counting shows)!

I agree, plus Beggars and Let It Bleed don't have Ronnie on them, and that's the point.

I thought your point was "four of the best in a row in 4 years" were Sticky Fingers, Exile, GHS, and IORR, and that those were "their peak" (failing to mention Beggars) - at least that's how it read to me.
But now that you cleared that up (?), I'd go so far to say that Some Girls is better than both GHS and IORR. Yes there are some great tunes on those two (some of which I prefer over anything on Some Girls),
and some of the solos from Taylor are exquisite and amongst his best, but as a whole album from start to finish as one complete piece - my vote goes to Some Girls, thanks in part to Ronnie's contributions.
Could be a personal attachment and the memories it evokes from when it was released in '78 when I was 15 (the soundtrack to the summer of '78, etc.), and obviously just my opinion, but if put on a desert island and only allowed to bring one of those three - Some Girls it is.

Sorry Hairball allow me to clarify, i meant that the four albums in a row with Taylor were a peak compared to the next activity with Wood. It was just in response to people saying the Stones are better with Wood. That was the point, i was making comparisons with albums Wood and Taylor played on, not albums before Taylor came along that were equally brilliant.
It's down to taste, if someone prefers the 5 year period of Black And Blue, Some Girls and Emotional Rescue to the 4 year period of Sticky Fingers , Exile, GHS and IORR that's cool, but the general consensus is that the Taylor period was a peak.
Obviously 64' to 69' was a peak too, but since Tattoo You its all been down hill creatively, Stones by numbers as Doxa says.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 6, 2019 01:09

Quote
His Majesty
Life without Exile is fine and dandy.

Beggars, LIB, Sticky and Exile are all kind of the same thing. A formula was landed upon in 1968 and re used for the next few albums.

Beggars Banquet is the best one though because it's has the freshness of new found inspiration and it's by the actual Rolling Stones.

grinning smiley

Life without Exile is fine and dandy for you maybe, but for me it would be like living without one of my arms or legs. eye popping smiley lol
And I don't see it as part of the formula you mention - it sounds completely different with an entirely different vibe than Beggars, LIB, and Sticky which are sort of a trinity in my mind.
Yes Beggars was the start of something great, and it very well might be better than LIB, Sticky, and Exile (depending on which day you ask me), but Exile is an island of it's own - the culmination of those prior three.
Not saying it's better (or maybe I am?), but as a double album it's hard to resist! People mention the "Big 4", but it might be more appropriate if they were referred to as the "Big 3 + Exile makes 4".

Current standings as of this minute:

Beggars
Exile
LIB
Sticky

Scratch that....

Exile
Beggars
LIB
Sticky

thumbs up

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: Testify ()
Date: March 6, 2019 01:41

Quote
keithsman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Midnight Toker
The Stomes best records were with MT.

No they weren't.


Sticky Fingers
Exile
GHS
IORR
not the Stones best records confused smiley surely these four in a row were their peak, four of the best in a row in 4 years.

Beggars Banquet (sans Taylor) is arguably better than all of those - definitely far better than the latter two imo.
And while I would currently name Exile as the best, Beggars, Let it Bleed, and Sticky Fingers sometimes get the nod.
As great as MT was, not everything recorded in the studio from his era can be considered "the best".
Live performances are another story though - everything he touched turned into GOLD...winking smiley ... (including the 50 and Counting shows)!

I agree, plus Beggars and Let It Bleed don't have Ronnie on them, and that's the point.

I thought your point was "four of the best in a row in 4 years" were Sticky Fingers, Exile, GHS, and IORR, and that those were "their peak" (failing to mention Beggars) - at least that's how it read to me.
But now that you cleared that up (?), I'd go so far to say that Some Girls is better than both GHS and IORR. Yes there are some great tunes on those two (some of which I prefer over anything on Some Girls),
and some of the solos from Taylor are exquisite and amongst his best, but as a whole album from start to finish as one complete piece - my vote goes to Some Girls, thanks in part to Ronnie's contributions.
Could be a personal attachment and the memories it evokes from when it was released in '78 when I was 15 (the soundtrack to the summer of '78, etc.), and obviously just my opinion, but if put on a desert island and only allowed to bring one of those three - Some Girls it is.

Sorry Hairball allow me to clarify, i meant that the four albums in a row with Taylor were a peak compared to the next activity with Wood. It was just in response to people saying the Stones are better with Wood. That was the point, i was making comparisons with albums Wood and Taylor played on, not albums before Taylor came along that were equally brilliant.
It's down to taste, if someone prefers the 5 year period of Black And Blue, Some Girls and Emotional Rescue to the 4 year period of Sticky Fingers , Exile, GHS and IORR that's cool, but the general consensus is that the Taylor period was a peak.
Obviously 64' to 69' was a peak too, but since Tattoo You its all been down hill creatively, Stones by numbers as Doxa says.
Taylor entered the Stones when they were at their full maturity. It is no coincidence that the best albums of that period were the first two SF and EOMS, the other two GHS and IORR are good albums but not the top. Ronnie entered the Stones when it seemed that the Stones were at the end, M. Taylor said in an interview that when he left the band he thought that the Stones would be finished anyway. Obviously, the contribution of Wood was different from that of Taylor, despite everything they did the best selling Stones album (Some Girls) and they managed to continue doing good music and great concerts and continued to have great success with the concerts.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 6, 2019 01:44

Yeah, the formula thing is more appliciable to BB, LIB and Sticky.

Exile is like a completion of the journey that began with their debut. The original intent of the band rendered through originals rather than cover versions.

I used to love Exile, but in time I just got bored with it and blues rock in general. A played out and overly glorified genre.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-06 01:59 by His Majesty.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: March 6, 2019 01:59

Quote
His Majesty
I used to love Exile, but in time I just got bored with it and blues rock in general. A too easily boring and overly glorified genre.

Funny, I never got bored with EOMS. And probably never will. But I got bored with blues epigonism.
That's why I never bought "Blue & Lonesome". I was bored with it even before listening to it...

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 02:04

Quote
Stoneage
Quote
His Majesty
I used to love Exile, but in time I just got bored with it and blues rock in general. A too easily boring and overly glorified genre.

Funny, I never got bored with EOMS. And probably never will. But I got bored with blues epigonism.
That's why I never bought "Blue & Lonesome". I was bored with it even before listening to it...

I got bored with it after one play.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 03:13

HHHHaaaaaa no ya didn't get bored with
those albums guys … you all just aged like LD …….

ROCKMAN

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: Cristiano Radtke ()
Date: March 6, 2019 03:28

Pancakes, anyone?

[twitter.com]

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: bleedingman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 03:59

In an alternate reality Ronnie Wood turned down the offer to join the Stones and went on to win several Grammies.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 6, 2019 04:19

Quote
keithsman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Midnight Toker
The Stomes best records were with MT.

No they weren't.


Sticky Fingers
Exile
GHS
IORR
not the Stones best records confused smiley surely these four in a row were their peak, four of the best in a row in 4 years.

Beggars Banquet (sans Taylor) is arguably better than all of those - definitely far better than the latter two imo.
And while I would currently name Exile as the best, Beggars, Let it Bleed, and Sticky Fingers sometimes get the nod.
As great as MT was, not everything recorded in the studio from his era can be considered "the best".
Live performances are another story though - everything he touched turned into GOLD...winking smiley ... (including the 50 and Counting shows)!

I agree, plus Beggars and Let It Bleed don't have Ronnie on them, and that's the point.

I thought your point was "four of the best in a row in 4 years" were Sticky Fingers, Exile, GHS, and IORR, and that those were "their peak" (failing to mention Beggars) - at least that's how it read to me.
But now that you cleared that up (?), I'd go so far to say that Some Girls is better than both GHS and IORR. Yes there are some great tunes on those two (some of which I prefer over anything on Some Girls),
and some of the solos from Taylor are exquisite and amongst his best, but as a whole album from start to finish as one complete piece - my vote goes to Some Girls, thanks in part to Ronnie's contributions.
Could be a personal attachment and the memories it evokes from when it was released in '78 when I was 15 (the soundtrack to the summer of '78, etc.), and obviously just my opinion, but if put on a desert island and only allowed to bring one of those three - Some Girls it is.

Sorry Hairball allow me to clarify, i meant that the four albums in a row with Taylor were a peak compared to the next activity with Wood. It was just in response to people saying the Stones are better with Wood. That was the point, i was making comparisons with albums Wood and Taylor played on, not albums before Taylor came along that were equally brilliant.
It's down to taste, if someone prefers the 5 year period of Black And Blue, Some Girls and Emotional Rescue to the 4 year period of Sticky Fingers , Exile, GHS and IORR that's cool, but the general consensus is that the Taylor period was a peak.
Obviously 64' to 69' was a peak too, but since Tattoo You its all been down hill creatively, Stones by numbers as Doxa says.

Actually your response was to His Majesty who thinks everything the Stones have accomplished after Brian left is fake ( grinning smiley ),
and who seemingly has no real stake in the Taylor vs. Wood debate - in other words, 'no Jones, no Stones'....lol
But never mind, now that you've clarified everything, your point is very clear.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 6, 2019 04:29

Quote
Cristiano Radtke
Pancakes, anyone?

[twitter.com]

Thanks Cristiano.

Funny... deja vu as he posted something similar last year on pancake day!
Seems his pancake videos are more memorable than his paintings or guitar playing (jk winking smiley)- he should start his own cooking show.

Cheers Ronnie, and happy pancake day!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 6, 2019 09:44

Quote
Hairball


Actually your response was to His Majesty who thinks everything the Stones have accomplished after Brian left is fake ( grinning smiley ),
and who seemingly has no real stake in the Taylor vs. Wood debate - in other words, 'no Jones, no Stones'....lol
But never mind, now that you've clarified everything, your point is very clear.

Not fake, just that it's effectively a new and different band. Like Taylor said. winking smiley

No Brian, Mick and Keith, no stones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-06 09:48 by His Majesty.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: saltoftheearth ()
Date: March 6, 2019 10:48

Quote
Stoneage
Wood is a good but not great guitarist. But he fitted very well in with the band from the start. Image wise better than Taylor. I have never questioned Wood. A good choice at the time.

That is not true. Mick Taylor fitted perfectly in 1969 when the angelic 'guitar gods' were the fashion of the day. Only later on, when that era was over, Ron Wood was the best choice. For instance, they could not have made an albumlike Goats Head Soup with him. And think about that album hwatever you like but it was the Stones' answer to glam rock.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 6, 2019 11:44

Ronnie would have fitted perfectly in 1969 too, it just would have been different... maybe even better.

All those Faces riffs he had in his head. I think we all agree Ronnie is ace in Faces.

Walking in to a band that is doing this as a core 4 piece:

[www.youtube.com]

Only an absolute idiot of a musician could make that worse, but such a musician simply wouldn't have been asked to join.

So, the stones greatness in 1969 was assured with or without Taylor, they just needed someone that could fit in.

Taylor, Wood or any suitable guitarist joining and it's still a golden period.

Taylor lucked out in that his entry to the collective tied in with Mick and Keith being so ON with their song writing and the stones fab four being tight and focused. Wood did not have such luck, he came in to a less ripe and productive scenario.

That should always be considered when making these comparisons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-06 11:51 by His Majesty.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 11:51

Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keithsman
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Midnight Toker
The Stomes best records were with MT.

No they weren't.


Sticky Fingers
Exile
GHS
IORR
not the Stones best records confused smiley surely these four in a row were their peak, four of the best in a row in 4 years.

Beggars Banquet (sans Taylor) is arguably better than all of those - definitely far better than the latter two imo.
And while I would currently name Exile as the best, Beggars, Let it Bleed, and Sticky Fingers sometimes get the nod.
As great as MT was, not everything recorded in the studio from his era can be considered "the best".
Live performances are another story though - everything he touched turned into GOLD...winking smiley ... (including the 50 and Counting shows)!

I agree, plus Beggars and Let It Bleed don't have Ronnie on them, and that's the point.

I thought your point was "four of the best in a row in 4 years" were Sticky Fingers, Exile, GHS, and IORR, and that those were "their peak" (failing to mention Beggars) - at least that's how it read to me.
But now that you cleared that up (?), I'd go so far to say that Some Girls is better than both GHS and IORR. Yes there are some great tunes on those two (some of which I prefer over anything on Some Girls),
and some of the solos from Taylor are exquisite and amongst his best, but as a whole album from start to finish as one complete piece - my vote goes to Some Girls, thanks in part to Ronnie's contributions.
Could be a personal attachment and the memories it evokes from when it was released in '78 when I was 15 (the soundtrack to the summer of '78, etc.), and obviously just my opinion, but if put on a desert island and only allowed to bring one of those three - Some Girls it is.

Sorry Hairball allow me to clarify, i meant that the four albums in a row with Taylor were a peak compared to the next activity with Wood. It was just in response to people saying the Stones are better with Wood. That was the point, i was making comparisons with albums Wood and Taylor played on, not albums before Taylor came along that were equally brilliant.
It's down to taste, if someone prefers the 5 year period of Black And Blue, Some Girls and Emotional Rescue to the 4 year period of Sticky Fingers , Exile, GHS and IORR that's cool, but the general consensus is that the Taylor period was a peak.
Obviously 64' to 69' was a peak too, but since Tattoo You its all been down hill creatively, Stones by numbers as Doxa says.

Actually your response was to His Majesty who thinks everything the Stones have accomplished after Brian left is fake ( grinning smiley ),
and who seemingly has no real stake in the Taylor vs. Wood debate - in other words, 'no Jones, no Stones'....lol
But never mind, now that you've clarified everything, your point is very clear.

Now i see what you mean Hairball, thanks for the heads up, i really had no idea, well in that case i agree with him winking smiley, sorry to His Majesty.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: KeithNacho ()
Date: March 6, 2019 11:51

During the Taylor years, Keith Richards was SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 11:56

Quote
KeithNacho
During the Taylor years, Keith Richards was SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was , but come on, he was still good in 78' 81' 82' 88' 89' 90' 92' 93' 99'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-06 11:57 by keithsman.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: runrudolph ()
Date: March 6, 2019 11:57

Quote
keithsman
Quote
KeithNacho
During the Taylor years, Keith Richards was SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was , but come on, he was still good in 78' 81' 82' 88' 89' 90' 92' 93' 98'

Dont forget 2017 n 2018.
Jeroen

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 12:03

Quote
runrudolph
Quote
keithsman
Quote
KeithNacho
During the Taylor years, Keith Richards was SO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was , but come on, he was still good in 78' 81' 82' 88' 89' 90' 92' 93' 98'

Dont forget 2017 n 2018.
Jeroen

I know what you mean runrudolf, he is still improving since 07' really, but he will never be that force of nature he once was at the age of 75, it's impossible.
I love that he believes he can still get better, and who knows, he might be even better than last year this year, it's just fascinating because with the Stones you never know, some nights they just all come together and it's like WOW, these guys still know how to rock . Micks just incredible isn't he, i just can't believe that he still does what he does, no one like him on this planet.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 6, 2019 12:03

Quote
keithsman


Now i see what you mean Hairball, thanks for the heads up, i really had no idea, well in that case i agree with him winking smiley, sorry to His Majesty.

Which bit do you agree with? confused smiley grinning smiley

GHS although perhaps a bit weaker than the big guns before it does have a unique and emotive atmosphere about it.

IORR a peak? Hardly. That's things getting stale even with the melodic wonder in the band. The album opener essentially setting things up for what was to come.

It's only rock an roll, such an uninspiring statement of intent. No wonder Taylor left. hot smiley

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 6, 2019 12:09

Ronnie in 1969. Much aceness and would have been a great addition to the stones collective.

A wicked messenger with the ability to fly. smoking smiley

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

If the stones could be great with a dysfunctional Brian, they sure as hell would have been great with an inspired Ronnie.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 12:15

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
keithsman


Now i see what you mean Hairball, thanks for the heads up, i really had no idea, well in that case i agree with him winking smiley, sorry to His Majesty.

Which bit do you agree with? confused smiley grinning smiley

GHS although perhaps a bit weaker than the big guns before it does have a unique and emotive atmosphere about it.

IORR a peak? Hardly. That's things getting stale even with the melodic wonder in the band. The album opener essentially setting things up for what was to come.

It's only rock an roll, such an uninspiring statement of intent. No wonder Taylor left. hot smiley

Well i agree that from Beggars to Exile was their greatest Peak, but i was just taking the MT albums and noting they were a higher grade of albums creatively than in the period that followed with Wood.
Having said that my personal favorite album that i play the most to this day is Tattoo You, probably because it was the first Studio album i got of theirs.

What i disagree with and seem totally alone here is that because when MT left he thought the Stones were almost over , therefor Wood saved the Stones. BS.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 6, 2019 12:22

Quote
keithsman

Well i agree that from Beggars to Exile was their greatest Peak, but i was just taking the MT albums and noting they were a higher grade of albums creatively than in the period that followed with Wood.

The 60's singles and the debut, Aftermath - Beggars Banquet is an equally great peak... More varied and even arguably better. They are actual Rolling Stones recordings too. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Even with all the problems in 1967, they produced this piece of magic.

[www.youtube.com]

That's no accident.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 12:22

Quote
His Majesty
Ronnie in 1969. Much aceness and would have been a great addition to the stones collective.

A wicked messenger with the ability to fly. smoking smiley

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

If the stones could be great with a dysfunctional Brian, they sure as hell would have been great with an inspired Ronnie.

But that's just it, Ronnie became incredibly uninspired, he turned into the mother of yes men and continues to do so to this day.
We have all seen what he can do, but for decades we only witnessed it sparingly, basically drink came first until recently.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 6, 2019 12:54

Quote
keithsman

But that's just it, Ronnie became incredibly uninspired, he turned into the mother of yes men and continues to do so to this day.
We have all seen what he can do, but for decades we only witnessed it sparingly, basically drink came first until recently.

In part due to when he joined and the state of things when he joined.

Taylor and Wood were both great in 1969 and in to the early 70's.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-06 13:18 by His Majesty.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: straycatuk ()
Date: March 6, 2019 13:25

I find it painful to watch San Jose 99. It really does highlight how poor and out of it Ronnie got. He cleaned up just in time to cover for a fading Keith ( due to Arthritis, Accidents and drinking ). Both guitarists appeared sober last year and it was a major improvement .

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: March 6, 2019 13:31

Just to note on Exile: Keith's sparing partner for Exile was much more Nicky Hopkins than Taylor, who apart from some lead guitar is greatly missing from the album.

Mathijs

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 14:21

Quote
straycatuk
I find it painful to watch San Jose 99. It really does highlight how poor and out of it Ronnie got. He cleaned up just in time to cover for a fading Keith ( due to Arthritis, Accidents and drinking ). Both guitarists appeared sober last year and it was a major improvement .

Yep i watched that last week and Ronnie need not be playing, i think this is what caused Keith to raise his game on the No Security tour, i always wonder how good the 90's could have been with an on fire Keith AND Ronnie on fire.
It's like they have been covering for each other all these years, hey Ronnie you can get loaded tonight i'll cover for you, or OMG Ronnie's gone, i'll better be good tonight to make up for it lol.
I got to hand it to Ronnie, no matter how drunk he was, he always showed up and he never fell over or puked. He was very brave really, i don't know how he even played when you hear what he said he was drinking, we're talking bottles of spirits and he's only a little guy. Same with Keith.

Re: Ron Wood
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: March 6, 2019 14:28

Quote
Mathijs
Just to note on Exile: Keith's sparing partner for Exile was much more Nicky Hopkins than Taylor, who apart from some lead guitar is greatly missing from the album.

Mathijs

Lets face it this was Keith at the peak of his powers, i don't think it mattered who was in the studio with him, it was going to be GOOD winking smiley
This period of time from 69' to 72' with songs like Gimme Shelter, i mean that track is all Keith at his peak with layers and layers of guitar work, the guy was creating Rock as it's know today.

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