Tell Me :
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Count me in. Despite belonging to those "educated folks who play instruments (and also sing in my case)" I can hear it, too. Being "better educated" is not necessarily a virtue, though. Some are simply too much focussed on technical details like a different chord or different small lick and tend to overlook the general picture, that is that in the process of creating a song, a rough sketch or basic idea can go through many changes and variations, and that of course includes the omission or addition of chords or certain notes, licks and melody lines.
We're in the same boat, then. And musicians are hearing different things, too. It's not about education, being «good at something» or having the definite answer of anything. Music is music. It's art, and it's up for interpretation by the listener. Sometimes, people who don't play an instrument can hear things seasoned musicians will miss. And the other way around, of course.
However, I refuse to be dismissed as someone who «doesn't see the bigger picture» just because I practically can sing the verses and the bridge from Sweet Thing while having Honest Man on. It's not a stray thought, an over-focus on small details or a hangup. It's just how it is: The structure of those songs are built up the same way.
There are other examples of similarities like Cried Out / Laugh, I Nearly Died. Take Coming Down Again and Sleep Tonight. The piano intros are different technically, yet they are very similar in feel - almost identical in feel.
And I must add: There is a difference between similarities and claiming «Cried Out» is a demo of what eventually became Laugh, I Nearly Died. That's what I'm objecting to, as Cried Out is a song in its own right, with soundscapes, parts and riffs that never made Laugh, I Never Died. But, as mentioned before, I agree on Mick taking some of the atmosphere and feel from Cried Out with him and added some of that in Laugh, I Nearly Died. But that's a different thing.
I don't want to repeat myself, or stir up anything, but I felt I had to explain this a bit better than I already had. Hope I succeeded
[www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-31 12:10 by DandelionPowderman.
Well, I think we both mean basically the same but only express it differently. My best guess is that Mick found "Cried Out Loud" not releasable "as is" (of course with a little polishing), but interesting enough to try developing it further - "sounds interesting, but it's not quite there yet, there's still something missing, let's see what I can do with it, if I can give it a bit more structure.
From then on, it's songwriter's creativity. Sometimes only minor adjustments are necessary, sometimes major changes, in this case obviously the latter. So, yes, "Cried Out Loud" may not exactly be a "demo" for LIND in the strict sense of the word (usually a finished song with finished lyrics that only needs to be arranged and recorded properly), but at least some kind of a "blueprint" for "LIND", or better read "LIND" was inspired by "Cried Out Loud".
The bridge in Coming Down Again was lifted - stolen - for Sleep Tonight. Keith essentially admits it without realizing it.
"I wrote that one at the piano when there was nobody else there except Woody and me - Woody plays drums on that one. So he was sitting at the kit, I was stitting at the piano, and I got this sequence together. I mean, it's one of those songs that I write occasionally where I say, Hey, I didn't write this, this is memory playing tricks with me, this is somebody else's song (laughs). It's happened to me before, with All About You, which I kept in the can for four or five years while I kept playing it for everybody I knew with a grounding in songwriting, because I kept thinking, This sequence does NOT come from me, this is NOT my shit... Sleep is like that for me because of all the weird modulations. The chorus is virtually a doo-wop chorus in C, but then the verses modulate quite naturally into another key. I had to wait for other people to convince me to go ahead with it; for a while I was saying, This is all good fun but we're wasting time, because I'm SURE this is somebody else's song (laughs)."
Interesting how no one in the Stones camp could remember something so obvious.
[timeisonourside.com]
Honest Man, on the other hand, I don't hear it at all other than it's a horrible attempt at emulating that Kenny Loggins song that is horrible.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: January 30, 2019 18:58
[www.youtube.com] - Laugh I Nearly Died
[www.youtube.com] - Cried Out
Laugh I Nearly Died became the second life of Cried Out.
[www.youtube.com] - Cried Out
Laugh I Nearly Died became the second life of Cried Out.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 30, 2019 22:21
Yeah, I'm among the crowd that see "Cried Out" as a stop on the road that became "Laugh? I Nearly Died." The same as "Highway Bound" became "Bitch" and "Good Time Women" became "Tumbling Dice." I understand better educated folks who play instruments saying no, but it's easier for me to hear this than it was to understand the connection between "Sweet Thing" and "Honest Man." I hear it now that I look for it, but on my own I might never have noticed because one is funk and the other is a bluesy rocker. I think it's a fundamental difference between those who play music and those who just listen to it. Without "hearing" notes or chords the way an educated person would, it just isn't the same. So from my uneducated vantage, "Cried Out" is definitely part of the process that evolved into "Laugh? I Nearly Died."
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: January 30, 2019 22:50
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I'm among the crowd that see "Cried Out" as a stop on the road that became "Laugh? I Nearly Died." The same as "Highway Bound" became "Bitch" and "Good Time Women" became "Tumbling Dice." I understand better educated folks who play instruments saying no, but it's easier for me to hear this than it was to understand the connection between "Sweet Thing" and "Honest Man." I hear it now that I look for it, but on my own I might never have noticed because one is funk and the other is a bluesy rocker. I think it's a fundamental difference between those who play music and those who just listen to it. Without "hearing" notes or chords the way an educated person would, it just isn't the same. So from my uneducated vantage, "Cried Out" is definitely part of the process that evolved into "Laugh? I Nearly Died."
Count me in. Despite belonging to those "educated folks who play instruments (and also sing in my case)" I can hear it, too. Being "better educated" is not necessarily a virtue, though. Some are simply too much focussed on technical details like a different chord or different small lick and tend to overlook the general picture, that is that in the process of creating a song, a rough sketch or basic idea can go through many changes and variations, and that of course includes the omission or addition of chords or certain notes, licks and melody lines.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: January 30, 2019 23:00
Hey yeah try playin someone like Howlin' Wolf to
some of those educated folks who play instruments...….
ROCKMAN
some of those educated folks who play instruments...….
ROCKMAN
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: January 30, 2019 23:40
sted by: retired_dog ()
Date: January 30, 2019 22:50
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I'm among the crowd that see "Cried Out" as a stop on the road that became "Laugh? I Nearly Died." The same as "Highway Bound" became "Bitch" and "Good Time Women" became "Tumbling Dice." I understand better educated folks who play instruments saying no, but it's easier for me to hear this than it was to understand the connection between "Sweet Thing" and "Honest Man." I hear it now that I look for it, but on my own I might never have noticed because one is funk and the other is a bluesy rocker. I think it's a fundamental difference between those who play music and those who just listen to it. Without "hearing" notes or chords the way an educated person would, it just isn't the same. So from my uneducated vantage, "Cried Out" is definitely part of the process that evolved into "Laugh? I Nearly Died."
Count me in. Despite belonging to those "educated folks who play instruments (and also sing in my case)" I can hear it, too. Being "better educated" is not necessarily a virtue, though. Some are simply too much focussed on technical details like a different chord or different small lick and tend to overlook the general picture, that is that in the process of creating a song, a rough sketch or basic idea can go through many changes and variations, and that of course includes the omission or addition of chords or certain notes, licks and melody lines.
I am average guitar player and for me it is not that the chords are similar but the feel of the song when I first listened to CRIED OUT yesterday(did not know it was an outtake I said to myself that sounds like another stones song and then I went through the back catalog - started with their last ALBUM lucky me so I did not have to spend tons of time
Date: January 30, 2019 22:50
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I'm among the crowd that see "Cried Out" as a stop on the road that became "Laugh? I Nearly Died." The same as "Highway Bound" became "Bitch" and "Good Time Women" became "Tumbling Dice." I understand better educated folks who play instruments saying no, but it's easier for me to hear this than it was to understand the connection between "Sweet Thing" and "Honest Man." I hear it now that I look for it, but on my own I might never have noticed because one is funk and the other is a bluesy rocker. I think it's a fundamental difference between those who play music and those who just listen to it. Without "hearing" notes or chords the way an educated person would, it just isn't the same. So from my uneducated vantage, "Cried Out" is definitely part of the process that evolved into "Laugh? I Nearly Died."
Count me in. Despite belonging to those "educated folks who play instruments (and also sing in my case)" I can hear it, too. Being "better educated" is not necessarily a virtue, though. Some are simply too much focussed on technical details like a different chord or different small lick and tend to overlook the general picture, that is that in the process of creating a song, a rough sketch or basic idea can go through many changes and variations, and that of course includes the omission or addition of chords or certain notes, licks and melody lines.
I am average guitar player and for me it is not that the chords are similar but the feel of the song when I first listened to CRIED OUT yesterday(did not know it was an outtake I said to myself that sounds like another stones song and then I went through the back catalog - started with their last ALBUM lucky me so I did not have to spend tons of time
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: January 31, 2019 00:00
It's how both songs start with Jagger vocal pharses and how he delivers the song to the listener and grabs you in.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 31, 2019 00:19
My remarks weren't meant as a slur against anyone with musical ability or even a musical education. If I was younger and (more importantly) had more time, I would love to improve my very limited musical ability and expand my knowledge. I think anyone who can hear a Stones track and know what key it's in and recognize the chords being played can count themselves fortunate.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
peoplewitheyes
()
Date: January 31, 2019 00:21
Don't get Dandy started on this...
We have all been here before...
I am with you guys, though. To me it's obvious.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-31 00:32 by peoplewitheyes.
We have all been here before...
I am with you guys, though. To me it's obvious.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-31 00:32 by peoplewitheyes.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: January 31, 2019 00:30
As I stated yesterday in another thread, it seems there's clearly more similarities than differences w/ Micks vocal phrasing being nearly identical.
Similar tempo and overall sound as well...
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Similar tempo and overall sound as well...
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 31, 2019 01:38
I can certainly hear why people think of it as an early version but there's some key parts missing.
But that doesn't really mean anything.
Both Mick said in 2002 "28 bits: 28 songs is pushing it, wouldn't that be nice? But there's a lot of great ideas, we've got a lot of stuff for an album that could come afterwards... as well as Ronnie, so perhaps it really did start with those sessions.
But that doesn't really mean anything.
Both Mick said in 2002 "28 bits: 28 songs is pushing it, wouldn't that be nice? But there's a lot of great ideas, we've got a lot of stuff for an album that could come afterwards... as well as Ronnie, so perhaps it really did start with those sessions.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: January 31, 2019 03:03
Different chord progression, slightly similar vibe.
Quoting myself (we discussed this already a year ago):
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-31 03:09 by doitywoik.
Quoting myself (we discussed this already a year ago):
Quote
doitywoik
..., there are similarities but IMHO "Cried Out" could as well exist as a song in its own right. Cried Out has a riff that isn't there in Laugh (although it sounds like I heard it before). Also the opening chord change in the verse isn't the same. In Laugh, the second chord goes down a major third, in Cried Out it's a fourth. Then both songs go follow different paths anyway. So it's rather the vibe than the music that is similar, I'd say.
But no matter what - for me, "Cried Out" is the highlight and the true standout of the bunch. Gives me the goosebumps, really!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-31 03:09 by doitywoik.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 31, 2019 11:50
Quote
retired_dogQuote
Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I'm among the crowd that see "Cried Out" as a stop on the road that became "Laugh? I Nearly Died." The same as "Highway Bound" became "Bitch" and "Good Time Women" became "Tumbling Dice." I understand better educated folks who play instruments saying no, but it's easier for me to hear this than it was to understand the connection between "Sweet Thing" and "Honest Man." I hear it now that I look for it, but on my own I might never have noticed because one is funk and the other is a bluesy rocker. I think it's a fundamental difference between those who play music and those who just listen to it. Without "hearing" notes or chords the way an educated person would, it just isn't the same. So from my uneducated vantage, "Cried Out" is definitely part of the process that evolved into "Laugh? I Nearly Died."
Count me in. Despite belonging to those "educated folks who play instruments (and also sing in my case)" I can hear it, too. Being "better educated" is not necessarily a virtue, though. Some are simply too much focussed on technical details like a different chord or different small lick and tend to overlook the general picture, that is that in the process of creating a song, a rough sketch or basic idea can go through many changes and variations, and that of course includes the omission or addition of chords or certain notes, licks and melody lines.
We're in the same boat, then. And musicians are hearing different things, too. It's not about education, being «good at something» or having the definite answer of anything. Music is music. It's art, and it's up for interpretation by the listener. Sometimes, people who don't play an instrument can hear things seasoned musicians will miss. And the other way around, of course.
However, I refuse to be dismissed as someone who «doesn't see the bigger picture» just because I practically can sing the verses and the bridge from Sweet Thing while having Honest Man on. It's not a stray thought, an over-focus on small details or a hangup. It's just how it is: The structure of those songs are built up the same way.
There are other examples of similarities like Cried Out / Laugh, I Nearly Died. Take Coming Down Again and Sleep Tonight. The piano intros are different technically, yet they are very similar in feel - almost identical in feel.
And I must add: There is a difference between similarities and claiming «Cried Out» is a demo of what eventually became Laugh, I Nearly Died. That's what I'm objecting to, as Cried Out is a song in its own right, with soundscapes, parts and riffs that never made Laugh, I Never Died. But, as mentioned before, I agree on Mick taking some of the atmosphere and feel from Cried Out with him and added some of that in Laugh, I Nearly Died. But that's a different thing.
I don't want to repeat myself, or stir up anything, but I felt I had to explain this a bit better than I already had. Hope I succeeded
[www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-31 12:10 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: January 31, 2019 21:30
Quote
doitywoik
Different chord progression, slightly similar vibe.
Quoting myself (we discussed this already a year ago):Quote
doitywoik
..., there are similarities but IMHO "Cried Out" could as well exist as a song in its own right. Cried Out has a riff that isn't there in Laugh (although it sounds like I heard it before). Also the opening chord change in the verse isn't the same. In Laugh, the second chord goes down a major third, in Cried Out it's a fourth. Then both songs go follow different paths anyway. So it's rather the vibe than the music that is similar, I'd say.
But no matter what - for me, "Cried Out" is the highlight and the true standout of the bunch. Gives me the goosebumps, really!
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
theimposter
()
Date: January 31, 2019 21:47
I almost like Cried Out better than Laugh. It feels a little slinkier and I love that smoky piano playing along with the guitar. They're both good, and certainly intimately related.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: January 31, 2019 22:37
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
retired_dogQuote
Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I'm among the crowd that see "Cried Out" as a stop on the road that became "Laugh? I Nearly Died." The same as "Highway Bound" became "Bitch" and "Good Time Women" became "Tumbling Dice." I understand better educated folks who play instruments saying no, but it's easier for me to hear this than it was to understand the connection between "Sweet Thing" and "Honest Man." I hear it now that I look for it, but on my own I might never have noticed because one is funk and the other is a bluesy rocker. I think it's a fundamental difference between those who play music and those who just listen to it. Without "hearing" notes or chords the way an educated person would, it just isn't the same. So from my uneducated vantage, "Cried Out" is definitely part of the process that evolved into "Laugh? I Nearly Died."
Count me in. Despite belonging to those "educated folks who play instruments (and also sing in my case)" I can hear it, too. Being "better educated" is not necessarily a virtue, though. Some are simply too much focussed on technical details like a different chord or different small lick and tend to overlook the general picture, that is that in the process of creating a song, a rough sketch or basic idea can go through many changes and variations, and that of course includes the omission or addition of chords or certain notes, licks and melody lines.
We're in the same boat, then. And musicians are hearing different things, too. It's not about education, being «good at something» or having the definite answer of anything. Music is music. It's art, and it's up for interpretation by the listener. Sometimes, people who don't play an instrument can hear things seasoned musicians will miss. And the other way around, of course.
However, I refuse to be dismissed as someone who «doesn't see the bigger picture» just because I practically can sing the verses and the bridge from Sweet Thing while having Honest Man on. It's not a stray thought, an over-focus on small details or a hangup. It's just how it is: The structure of those songs are built up the same way.
There are other examples of similarities like Cried Out / Laugh, I Nearly Died. Take Coming Down Again and Sleep Tonight. The piano intros are different technically, yet they are very similar in feel - almost identical in feel.
And I must add: There is a difference between similarities and claiming «Cried Out» is a demo of what eventually became Laugh, I Nearly Died. That's what I'm objecting to, as Cried Out is a song in its own right, with soundscapes, parts and riffs that never made Laugh, I Never Died. But, as mentioned before, I agree on Mick taking some of the atmosphere and feel from Cried Out with him and added some of that in Laugh, I Nearly Died. But that's a different thing.
I don't want to repeat myself, or stir up anything, but I felt I had to explain this a bit better than I already had. Hope I succeeded
[www.youtube.com]
Well, I think we both mean basically the same but only express it differently. My best guess is that Mick found "Cried Out Loud" not releasable "as is" (of course with a little polishing), but interesting enough to try developing it further - "sounds interesting, but it's not quite there yet, there's still something missing, let's see what I can do with it, if I can give it a bit more structure.
From then on, it's songwriter's creativity. Sometimes only minor adjustments are necessary, sometimes major changes, in this case obviously the latter. So, yes, "Cried Out Loud" may not exactly be a "demo" for LIND in the strict sense of the word (usually a finished song with finished lyrics that only needs to be arranged and recorded properly), but at least some kind of a "blueprint" for "LIND", or better read "LIND" was inspired by "Cried Out Loud".
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
RG
()
Date: February 1, 2019 12:56
'Laugh I nearly died' is a really underestimated Stones record. I love that song from the first moment I heard it on ABB.
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: February 1, 2019 13:57
There's similarities in Mick's vocals, but that really is about it. I see them as two distinct tracks.
Mathijs
Mathijs
Re: Cried Out/ Laugh I Nearly Died
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: February 1, 2019 17:08
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
retired_dogQuote
Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I'm among the crowd that see "Cried Out" as a stop on the road that became "Laugh? I Nearly Died." The same as "Highway Bound" became "Bitch" and "Good Time Women" became "Tumbling Dice." I understand better educated folks who play instruments saying no, but it's easier for me to hear this than it was to understand the connection between "Sweet Thing" and "Honest Man." I hear it now that I look for it, but on my own I might never have noticed because one is funk and the other is a bluesy rocker. I think it's a fundamental difference between those who play music and those who just listen to it. Without "hearing" notes or chords the way an educated person would, it just isn't the same. So from my uneducated vantage, "Cried Out" is definitely part of the process that evolved into "Laugh? I Nearly Died."
Count me in. Despite belonging to those "educated folks who play instruments (and also sing in my case)" I can hear it, too. Being "better educated" is not necessarily a virtue, though. Some are simply too much focussed on technical details like a different chord or different small lick and tend to overlook the general picture, that is that in the process of creating a song, a rough sketch or basic idea can go through many changes and variations, and that of course includes the omission or addition of chords or certain notes, licks and melody lines.
We're in the same boat, then. And musicians are hearing different things, too. It's not about education, being «good at something» or having the definite answer of anything. Music is music. It's art, and it's up for interpretation by the listener. Sometimes, people who don't play an instrument can hear things seasoned musicians will miss. And the other way around, of course.
However, I refuse to be dismissed as someone who «doesn't see the bigger picture» just because I practically can sing the verses and the bridge from Sweet Thing while having Honest Man on. It's not a stray thought, an over-focus on small details or a hangup. It's just how it is: The structure of those songs are built up the same way.
There are other examples of similarities like Cried Out / Laugh, I Nearly Died. Take Coming Down Again and Sleep Tonight. The piano intros are different technically, yet they are very similar in feel - almost identical in feel.
And I must add: There is a difference between similarities and claiming «Cried Out» is a demo of what eventually became Laugh, I Nearly Died. That's what I'm objecting to, as Cried Out is a song in its own right, with soundscapes, parts and riffs that never made Laugh, I Never Died. But, as mentioned before, I agree on Mick taking some of the atmosphere and feel from Cried Out with him and added some of that in Laugh, I Nearly Died. But that's a different thing.
I don't want to repeat myself, or stir up anything, but I felt I had to explain this a bit better than I already had. Hope I succeeded
[www.youtube.com]
The bridge in Coming Down Again was lifted - stolen - for Sleep Tonight. Keith essentially admits it without realizing it.
"I wrote that one at the piano when there was nobody else there except Woody and me - Woody plays drums on that one. So he was sitting at the kit, I was stitting at the piano, and I got this sequence together. I mean, it's one of those songs that I write occasionally where I say, Hey, I didn't write this, this is memory playing tricks with me, this is somebody else's song (laughs). It's happened to me before, with All About You, which I kept in the can for four or five years while I kept playing it for everybody I knew with a grounding in songwriting, because I kept thinking, This sequence does NOT come from me, this is NOT my shit... Sleep is like that for me because of all the weird modulations. The chorus is virtually a doo-wop chorus in C, but then the verses modulate quite naturally into another key. I had to wait for other people to convince me to go ahead with it; for a while I was saying, This is all good fun but we're wasting time, because I'm SURE this is somebody else's song (laughs)."
Interesting how no one in the Stones camp could remember something so obvious.
[timeisonourside.com]
Honest Man, on the other hand, I don't hear it at all other than it's a horrible attempt at emulating that Kenny Loggins song that is horrible.
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