Great, thanks!

ive been into a lot of stones outtakes/instrumentals recently from the psychedelic era and there are some great versions.

we love you
citadel
complicated
gold painted fingernails
ruby tuesday
child of the moon


being some of the best.

youtube really opens up the whole stones experience. without it these versions might have been lost forever.

Ace, 1968 copyright protection release.

Quote
buttons67
ive been into a lot of stones outtakes/instrumentals recently from the psychedelic era and there are some great versions.

we love you
citadel
complicated
gold painted fingernails
ruby tuesday
child of the moon


being some of the best.

youtube really opens up the whole stones experience. without it these versions might have been lost forever.

COTM, SFM Jigsaw Puzzle etc show it carried over in to 1968, albeit less blatantly, quite nicely.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-11 23:22 by His Majesty.

Nice find! Low quality audio, but a gem. BW on distortion, Charlie, Nicky and Keith

--------------------------------------------


"I'm gonna walk... before they make me run"

--------------------------------------------

Thanks for inform us about this great ytube channel.

I have listened most of the songs. Bill Wyman gives me goose goosebumps. He carries the listener throughot all them.

I guess now the band have to pay Disney for the use of MM name correct?!

So now putting things on YouTube counts as copyright preservation release?
We can't buy the physical or digital product anymore?
So when it's gone, it's gone or I have to download this stuff from YouTube using some nifty Linux script?
Is this really official?

Whale - just use something like this youtube downloader, super easy to use, download as an MP4 (the video) or MP3 (just the audio)

https://youtubedownloader.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-12 14:32 by peoplewitheyes.

Great!

Nice to hear the acoustic version of COTM a bit more shaped and refined, compared to the takes on The Satanic Sessions.

thanks a lot !!!
I made an audio version post on the "Buy/Sell/trade" forum
[iorr.org]
Norbert

Why is there an official version of Jumping Jack Flash among these copyright preservation tracks? They preserved the right of this one on all the compilation releases as recent as Grrr!?
But it is not the official version, because of Jagger singing "boo/buh" and some other noises in the middle of the song.

Quote
alexander paul
Why is there an official version of Jumping Jack Flash among these copyright preservation tracks? They preserved the right of this one on all the compilation releases as recent as Grrr!?
But it is not the official version, because of Jagger singing "boo/buh" and some other noises in the middle of the song.

It’s an entirely different take to the version released as a single. This rendition was recorded especially for the mimed performance that usually accompanies it. It hasn’t appeared on any official physical or digital release until now, I believe.

ABKCO has been making these "copyright preservation releases" for a few years in a row now. They make the songs available on youtube for a while and then take them down again just to hold on to the copyright.

According to EU Directive it has to be "lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public" within fifty years.

Quote
rara
ABKCO has been making these "copyright preservation releases" for a few years in a row now. They make the songs available on youtube for a while and then take them down again just to hold on to the copyright.

According to EU Directive it has to be "lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public" within fifty years.

Like those 1966 recordings that appeared on YouTube briefly, then vanished. I seem to recall a version of Mother’s Little Helper, where Keith sings the opening line of ’What a drag it is, getting okd’ Shame they remove them, really.

Quote
Big Al

Quote
rara
ABKCO has been making these "copyright preservation releases" for a few years in a row now. They make the songs available on youtube for a while and then take them down again just to hold on to the copyright.

According to EU Directive it has to be "lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public" within fifty years.

Like those 1966 recordings that appeared on YouTube briefly, then vanished. I seem to recall a version of Mother’s Little Helper, where Keith sings the opening line of ’What a drag it is, getting okd’ Shame they remove them, really.

Mother's Little Helper






"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
Deltics

Quote
Big Al

Quote
rara
ABKCO has been making these "copyright preservation releases" for a few years in a row now. They make the songs available on youtube for a while and then take them down again just to hold on to the copyright.

According to EU Directive it has to be "lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public" within fifty years.

Like those 1966 recordings that appeared on YouTube briefly, then vanished. I seem to recall a version of Mother’s Little Helper, where Keith sings the opening line of ’What a drag it is, getting okd’ Shame they remove them, really.

Mother's Little Helper

Thank you, Deltics

I don't understand this copyright preservation releases. Under the Berne Convention Regulations, copyright is granted automatically at creation. The validity of copyright on published work is for the duration of the author's death + 70 years. The duration of copyright of unpublished work is eternal under Berne convention, and death+70 years to a maximum of 120 years in the US.

To complicate things there's also the Sonny Bono Act, which fixed a period of 95 years for anything placed under copyright from 1923 to 1977, after which the measure isn’t fixed, but based on when an author perishes. Copyright can also be renewed to extend the period.

Then, you can register unpublished work and recordings without actually publishing them. But you only do this when you intend to publish. If you want to keep it unpublished there's basically nothing you need to do.

All unpublished work by the Stones is copyrighted. A band cannot make a recording of a Stones outtake and publish it under the bands name and under any other credit than "Jagger/Richards", as the copyright is granted at creation.

The copyright to the music and copyright to a recording are two separate things. Europe 1 holds the rights to the recording of a Paris 1966 Stones show recording, but ABKCO holds the copyright to the songs. The recording of the show is for 70 years after death, and the recording can only be released when all parties agree on the release, thus on how the royalties are shared.

So, what am I missing? Why does an outtake of Child of the Moon or Sympathy, which has full copyrights until 2100 or so when it needs renewal, need to be published? Where does the 50 years come from?

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs
I don't understand this copyright preservation releases. Under the Berne Convention Regulations, copyright is granted automatically at creation. The validity of copyright on published work is for the duration of the author's death + 70 years. The duration of copyright of unpublished work is eternal under Berne convention, and death+70 years to a maximum of 120 years in the US.

To complicate things there's also the Sonny Bono Act, which fixed a period of 95 years for anything placed under copyright from 1923 to 1977, after which the measure isn’t fixed, but based on when an author perishes. Copyright can also be renewed to extend the period.

Then, you can register unpublished work and recordings without actually publishing them. But you only do this when you intend to publish. If you want to keep it unpublished there's basically nothing you need to do.

All unpublished work by the Stones is copyrighted. A band cannot make a recording of a Stones outtake and publish it under the bands name and under any other credit than "Jagger/Richards", as the copyright is granted at creation.

The copyright to the music and copyright to a recording are two separate things. Europe 1 holds the rights to the recording of a Paris 1966 Stones show recording, but ABKCO holds the copyright to the songs. The recording of the show is for 70 years after death, and the recording can only be released when all parties agree on the release, thus on how the royalties are shared.

So, what am I missing? Why does an outtake of Child of the Moon or Sympathy, which has full copyrights until 2100 or so when it needs renewal, need to be published? Where does the 50 years come from?

Mathijs

This might be why they're doing it.

Quote
ash

Quote
Kennedy
I believe that's why the Paris 67 recording was given a very limited release last year.

Interestingly (or perhaps not) , I don't believe ABKCO has any rights to the Paris 65 to 67 concerts. They belong to Europe 1 who recorded and broadcast the shows Musicorama and/or it's parent company. I am currently trying to obtain a licence for a 1961 concert in their archives and it is clear that it is owned by them and I assume the same is true for the rest of their catalogue including the Stones shows.
ABKCO also claim, according to BMI.com, for example, that Don't Lie To Me is a Jagger / Richards composition published by ABKCO as is the Stevie Wonder track being discussed elsewhere on the forum.
Given that a lot more from the Beggars period is around on bootleg, it's surprising that only these 4 tracks are up for copyright protection. What about Blood Red Wine for example ? Does this mean that it's fair game and now in the public domain. We know ABKCO have a tape for it. Their copyright theories don't seem very well thought out.

Hence, Musicorama should also be the owner of the Olympia october 1964 concert, if you have contacts you could maybe ask if it is still available



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-15 15:29 by straycat58.

Quote
rara
According to EU Directive it has to be "lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public" within fifty years.

So logically, this year a version of GS sung by Bill Wyman will dropped on Youtube?

Quote
straycat58

Quote
ash

Quote
Kennedy
I believe that's why the Paris 67 recording was given a very limited release last year.

Interestingly (or perhaps not) , I don't believe ABKCO has any rights to the Paris 65 to 67 concerts. They belong to Europe 1 who recorded and broadcast the shows Musicorama and/or it's parent company. I am currently trying to obtain a licence for a 1961 concert in their archives and it is clear that it is owned by them and I assume the same is true for the rest of their catalogue including the Stones shows.
ABKCO also claim, according to BMI.com, for example, that Don't Lie To Me is a Jagger / Richards composition published by ABKCO as is the Stevie Wonder track being discussed elsewhere on the forum.
Given that a lot more from the Beggars period is around on bootleg, it's surprising that only these 4 tracks are up for copyright protection. What about Blood Red Wine for example ? Does this mean that it's fair game and now in the public domain. We know ABKCO have a tape for it. Their copyright theories don't seem very well thought out.

Hence, Musicorama should also be the owner of the Olympia october 1964 concert, if you have contacts you could maybe ask if it is still available

I can ask if it still exists. They have been in the process of re-housing their archive. The tape I am hoping to arrange a licence for "should" exist but this cannot be confirmed until the archive move is finished and the holdings checked, or at least that's what I've been told. Even then, the costs involved are the most expensive I have come across in 5 years of "playing this game". Well, almost.
Unfortunately most companies are not forthcoming about details of their holdings even if it's 60 year old stuff they have no intention of doing anything with and licensing is extremely expensive. If 64 Olympia exists, the costs of licensing it are likely to be ruinous and then ABKCO will come calling.

Either way, for ABKCO to claim copyright on Europe 1's broadcasts has to be at least as questionable as their copyright for the "Jagger - Richards" song Don't Lie To Me. How can ABKCO get away with either of those ??

Quote
Mathijs
I don't understand this copyright preservation releases. Under the Berne Convention Regulations, copyright is granted automatically at creation. The validity of copyright on published work is for the duration of the author's death + 70 years. The duration of copyright of unpublished work is eternal under Berne convention, and death+70 years to a maximum of 120 years in the US.

To complicate things there's also the Sonny Bono Act, which fixed a period of 95 years for anything placed under copyright from 1923 to 1977, after which the measure isn’t fixed, but based on when an author perishes. Copyright can also be renewed to extend the period.

Then, you can register unpublished work and recordings without actually publishing them. But you only do this when you intend to publish. If you want to keep it unpublished there's basically nothing you need to do.

All unpublished work by the Stones is copyrighted. A band cannot make a recording of a Stones outtake and publish it under the bands name and under any other credit than "Jagger/Richards", as the copyright is granted at creation.

The copyright to the music and copyright to a recording are two separate things. Europe 1 holds the rights to the recording of a Paris 1966 Stones show recording, but ABKCO holds the copyright to the songs. The recording of the show is for 70 years after death, and the recording can only be released when all parties agree on the release, thus on how the royalties are shared.

So, what am I missing? Why does an outtake of Child of the Moon or Sympathy, which has full copyrights until 2100 or so when it needs renewal, need to be published? Where does the 50 years come from?

Mathijs

You confuse copyright (= the composition itself) with neighbouring (copy-)rights (performing artists, record companies - to name a few).

Quote
straycat58

Hence, Musicorama should also be the owner of the Olympia october 1964 concert, if you have contacts you could maybe ask if it is still available

"Musicorama" was the name of the program broadcasted on "Europe 1" radio. So "Europe 1" might/should have the tape in their vaults... unless they don't, as there was a major "Spring cleaning" in the early 70's. They basically dumps reels of the pavement of the François 1er street where the radio was located.
But I'd remain optimistic as "Europe 1" did broadcast a few songs from the 65 and 67 radio shows on July 2, 1995.

Quote
ash

Quote
straycat58

Quote
ash

Quote
Kennedy
I believe that's why the Paris 67 recording was given a very limited release last year.

Interestingly (or perhaps not) , I don't believe ABKCO has any rights to the Paris 65 to 67 concerts. They belong to Europe 1 who recorded and broadcast the shows Musicorama and/or it's parent company. I am currently trying to obtain a licence for a 1961 concert in their archives and it is clear that it is owned by them and I assume the same is true for the rest of their catalogue including the Stones shows.
ABKCO also claim, according to BMI.com, for example, that Don't Lie To Me is a Jagger / Richards composition published by ABKCO as is the Stevie Wonder track being discussed elsewhere on the forum.
Given that a lot more from the Beggars period is around on bootleg, it's surprising that only these 4 tracks are up for copyright protection. What about Blood Red Wine for example ? Does this mean that it's fair game and now in the public domain. We know ABKCO have a tape for it. Their copyright theories don't seem very well thought out.

Hence, Musicorama should also be the owner of the Olympia october 1964 concert, if you have contacts you could maybe ask if it is still available

I can ask if it still exists. They have been in the process of re-housing their archive. The tape I am hoping to arrange a licence for "should" exist but this cannot be confirmed until the archive move is finished and the holdings checked, or at least that's what I've been told. Even then, the costs involved are the most expensive I have come across in 5 years of "playing this game". Well, almost.
Unfortunately most companies are not forthcoming about details of their holdings even if it's 60 year old stuff they have no intention of doing anything with and licensing is extremely expensive. If 64 Olympia exists, the costs of licensing it are likely to be ruinous and then ABKCO will come calling.

Either way, for ABKCO to claim copyright on Europe 1's broadcasts has to be at least as questionable as their copyright for the "Jagger - Richards" song Don't Lie To Me. How can ABKCO get away with either of those ??

It is questionable indeed because the original sound recording belongs to Europe 1 and with it the corresponding neighbouring rights to the sound recording. ABKCO's claim therefore can only be based on the neighbouring rights of the performing artists, the Stones - due to their exclusive contract for the time period in question. However, due to this contract ABKCO is bound to the artists's decision whether or not to release a performance (it's obvious that ABKCO can't release any unreleased Stones performance against their will). To release this Europe 1 material even "for copyright extension purposes" might indeed be a somewhat fishy subject - at least without any agreement with the Stones. But, hey, that's what courts are for!

Thanks Ash, please don't forget to ask. It would be a must for any Stones fan (and not only) to grab this recording.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-16 15:41 by His Majesty.

Slightly OT:

The Rolling Stones: Demos & Outtakes 1963-1966

2CD, Release date: 29-Mar-2019 (by Audio Vaults) - [www.juno.co.uk] , [www.jpc.de]

From [www.Amazon.co.uk] - [www.Amazon.com] :

DISC 1

1. Fortune Teller (Take 1) 2.13 Recorded 9th July, 1963, Decca Studios, West Hampstead, London.
2. Go Home Girl 2.20 Recorded 16th July, 1963, Decca Studios, West Hampstead, London.
3. It Should Be You 1.37
4. Leave Me Alone 1.48
5. My Only Girl 1.59 Recorded 20th-21st November, 1963, Regent Sound Studios, London.
6. Not Fade Away 1.48 Recorded 10th January, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Early version with different Lead Guitar, Harmonica and Vocal.
7. Andrew's Blues 3.00
8. Mr. Spector & Mr. Pitney Came Too 2.44 Recorded 3rd-4th February, 1964, Regend Sound Studios, London. Features Phil Spector and Gene Pitney.
9. As Time Goes By 2.12 Recorded 24th-25th February, 1964, Regent Sound Studio, London. Features Big Jim Sullivan On Guitar.
10. Ain't That Loving You Baby 1.52 First Broadcast By Radio Luxembourg, 18th March, 1964.
11. Don't Lie To Me 1.58 Recorded 12th May, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Extended Version, different to Metamorphosis Take.
12. Stewed & Keefed (Brian's Blues) 4.04 Recorded 10th June, 1964, Chess Studios, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
13. Hi-Heel Sneakers 2.55
14. Down In The Bottom 2.40
15. Reelin' & Rockin' 3.33
16. Tell Me, Baby (How Many Times) 1.52 Recorded 11th June, 1964, Chess Studios, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
17. Time Is On My Side 2.50 Recorded 24th-25th June, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. First version with Organ Intro.
18. Try A Little Harder 2.20 Recorded 29th June - 7th July, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Alt to Metamorphosis version, w/o Pedal Steel Guitar.
19. Some Things Stick In Your Mind 2.23 Recorded 29th June - 7th July, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Alt to Metamorphosis version, lacking Brass Overdubs.
20. Heart Of Stone 3.41 Recorded 21st-23rd July, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Alternate Studio Demo with Guitar Solo.
21. Blue Turns To Grey 2.36 Recorded 31st August - 4th September, 1964. Alternate Version without female Backing Vocals.
22. We're Wasting Time 2.44 Recorded 31st August - 4th September, 1964. Alternate Version with Guitar Solo.

DISC 2

1. (Walking Through) The Sleepy City 2.49
2. Each And Every Day Of The Year 2.43 Recorded 31st August - 4th September, 1964
3. We Were Falling In Love 1.59 Recorded 28th-29th September, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Acetate Version.
4. Susie Q 1.49 Recorded 2nd November, 1964, RCA Studios, Hollywood, USA. Alternate Studio Version.
5. Everybody Needs Somebody To Love 1.59 Recorded 2nd November, 1964, RCA Studios, Hollywood, USA. Short run-through Version.
6. Goodbye Girl 2.05
7. Mercy, Mercy 2.40
8. Key To The Highway 3.16 Recorded 8th November, Chess Studios, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
9. I'd Much Rather Be With The Boys 2.07 Recorded February, 1965, Decca Studios, London. Alternate version to Metamorphosis Version.
10. I've Been Loving You Too Long 2.53 Recorded 12th-13th May, 1965, RCA Studios, Hollywood, USA. Undubbed Studio Version.
11. Looking Tired 2.13 Recorded 6th September, 1965
12. 19th Nervous Breakdown
13. Con Le Mie Lacrime (As Tears Go By)
14. Out Of Time
15. Have You Seen Your Mother Baby Standing In The Shadow?
16. Get Yourself Together
17. Have You Seen Your Mother Baby Standing In The Shadow?
18. If You Let Me
19. Yesterday's Papers
20. Sometimes Happy, Sometimes Blue
21. Get Yourself Together



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-16 19:35 by Irix.

Quote
Irix
Slightly OT:

The Rolling Stones: Demos & Outtakes 1963-1966

2CD, Release date: 29-Mar-2019 (by Audio Vaults) - [www.juno.co.uk] , [www.jpc.de]

From [www.Amazon.co.uk] :

DISC 1

1. Fortune Teller (Take 1) 2.13 Recorded 9th July, 1963, Decca Studios, West Hampstead, London.
2. Go Home Girl 2.20 Recorded 16th July, 1963, Decca Studios, West Hampstead, London.
3. It Should Be You 1.37
4. Leave Me Alone 1.48
5. My Only Girl 1.59 Recorded 20th-21st November, 1963, Regent Sound Studios, London.
6. Not Fade Away 1.48 Recorded 10th January, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Eary Version With Different Lead Guitar, Harmonica And Vocal.
7. Andrew's Blues 3.00
8. Mr. Spector & Mr. Pitney Came Too 2.44 Recorded 3rd-4th February, 1964, Regend Sound Studios, London. Features Phil Spector And Gene Pitney.
9. As Time Goes By 2.12 Recorded 24th-25th February, 1964, Regent Sound Studio, London Features Big Jim Sullivan On Guitar
10. Ain't That Loving You Baby 1.52 First Broadcast By Radio Luxembourg, 18th March, 1964.
11. Don't Lie To Me 1.58 Recorded 12th May, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Extended Version, Different To Metamorphosis Take.
12. Stewed & Keefed (Brian's Blues) 4.04 Recorded 10th June, 1964, Chess Studios, Chicago, Illinois, Usa.
13. Hi-Heel Sneakers 2.55
14. Down In The Bottom 2.40
15. Reelin' & Rockin' 3.33
16. Tell Me, Baby (How Many Times) 1.52 Recorded 11th June, 1964, Chess Studios, Chicago, Illinois, Usa.
17. Time Is On My Side 2.50 Recorded 24th-25th June, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. First Version With Organ Intro.
18. Try A Little Harder 2.20 Recorded 29thjune - 7th July, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Alt To Metamorphosis Version, w/o Pedal Steel Guitar.
19. Some Things Stick In Your Mind 2.23 Recorded 29th June - 7th July, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London.Alt To Metamorphosis Version, Lacking Brass Overdubs.
20. Heart Of Stone 3.41 Recorded 21st-23rd July, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London. Alternate Studio Demo With Guitar Solo.
21. Blue Turns To Grey 2.36 Recorded 31st August - 4th September, 1964. Alternate Version Without Female Backing Vocals.
22. We're Wasting Time 2.44 Recorded 31st August - 4th September, 1964. Alternate Version With Guitar Solo.


DISC 2

1. (Walking Through) The Sleepy City 2.49
2. Each And Every Day Of The Year 2.43 Recorded 31st August - 4th September, 1964
3. We Were Falling In Love 1.59 Recorded 28th-29th September, 1964, Regent Sound Studios, London.Acetate Version.
4. Susie Q 1.49 Recorded 2nd November, 1964, Rca Studios, Hollywood, Usa. Alternate Studio Version.
5. Everybody Needs Somebody To Love 1.59 Recorded 2nd November, 1964, Rca Studios, Hollywood, Usa. Short Run-Through Version.
6. Goodbye Girl 2.05
7. Mercy, Mercy 2.40
8. Key To The Highway 3.16 Recorded 8th November, Chess Studios, Chicago, Illinois, Usa.
9. I'd Much Rather Be With The Boys 2.07 Recorded February, 1965, Decca Studios, London. Alternate Version To Metamorphosis Version.
10. I've Been Loving You Too Long 2.53 Recorded 12th-13th May, 1965, Rca Studios, Hollywood, Usa. Undubbed Studio Version.
11. Looking Tired 2.13 Recorded 6th September, 1965

Looks like this was compiled by some "true experts" as there are a handful of tracks on it that are definitely not in the public domain.