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mandu

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RoughJusticeOnYa

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keithsman
watching the American version of the office, they just don't get it.

Completely un-agreed.

They do 'get' it; in their own, particular way.

As a continental European, I'm really close to British humour, and I've been growing up with it for 50 odd years now. So I feel I did 'get' the original -
and while the American version is what it is: an American interpretation, and therefor quite different from "the Office" UK, they did touch the same nerves in that series...
And by doing so, they created what I consider to be one of the very best - and allow me to say, from a personal point of view: one of the very few really good - USA comedy series of this day & age.
Maybe I just don't 'get' USA comedy; so be it then - but "the Office" USA, I really really liked. And for all the right reasons.

The british version of the office is fantastic,its kinda like what would happen in a real office.people really do behave like that.I tried to watch the american version but didnt like it that much.just not the same as the british version.

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Doxa

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Witness



However, Doxa, are you not on this occasion presenting too much of a one factor explanation of this band's development through major, medium and minor peaks and relative and sometimes absolute slumps, that is, with a focus on Keith's part of it. From your exposition it is as if, were it not for Keith's drug use, he would have contributed to creativity without any stops. And somehow you have, again on this occasion, abstracted from characterisic points of their development. Especially from what one may call their artistic turn that THEIR SATANIC MAJESTYS REQUEST paved the way for. Also, on the other hand, from the exhaustion that GOATS HEAD SOUP in its lethargy displays from musical innovation during the preceding years, for instance in one of Keith's best Keith sung songs," Coming Down Again". Later on, past their artistic period, there was still music made that instead of 'artistic, may be described as deeply inspirational. I am referring to the Pathe Marconi albums, of which Keith has his share. And when both Keith and Mick after that time period, influenced by their disagreements on material, the two of them do not write quite as good songs as in the past, one ought to be aware that the more reserved reception to their albums from their conservative buying public has contributed to take away incentives to be more active in music making.

In other words, Keith's use of drugs and alcohol has had its impact, I don't object, but in a richer context, which I have only alluded to. It is paradox for me to remind you, you know so very much more than me about these subjects. But you seem almost to have been intoxicated (!) by the perspective you chose.

Well, I think the whole story of the (downhill of) creativity of the Stones in general and Keith in particular is much richer and complicated than I described above. Of course. What I did was to just emphasize one factor, and I really don't have any clue if anything I said holds court (or to what extent). It was just one consistent and coherent way (or attempt to that) to explain certain phenomenons we have wittnessed along the years. It was controversial for sure because for once I tried look the case without typical non-natural heroism involved in discussing the topic of Keith and drugs. Just a human, raw and naked perspective (without any glamour and myths) reflecting what drugs and booze does for one's behavior in the long run.

But like I said that's not the way I generally like seeing the Stones. For example, I much rather like to see Mick Jagger not wanting to co-work with Keith because Mick doesn't find Keith 'inspiring' enough (or for some other 'pure' artistic reasons) but not because of Keith's unbearable drunken behavior. The latter just sounds way too harsh, easy and 'naturalistic' explanation. Nor I don't like to see Keith or the Stones losing their true muse and focus after EXILE due to their heavy drugs use. I rather like to see them just running out of fresh ideas, them of completing everything they know and can by EXILE, and thereby having a 'natural' artistic downhill (or, if one likes, just getting old in basically young man's game). Or like with Keith, him by then having gotten about any sensible new idea from the open tuning that was somehow within the reach of his curious mind. Him just running out of bullets. Not that of him shooting most of his creative cells in his brains out. But I am afraid that that of trying to tell everything in pure artistic terms isn't satisfactory enough, and that one needs certain causal, non-musical stories to complete the picture.

I actually hate using the drug card in explaining anything in music, but sometimes I need to admit that it might have a real explanatory role in trying to understand their doings. Both positively and negatively. My story above stemmed out of that. But I hope anyone sees the hypothetical and over-simplifying (and, of course, rhetorical) character my story has. It wasn't written to be taken literally, but just to open up one possible perspective to consider.

- Doxa

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Stoneage
Imagine where The Stones would have been had Keith (and Ron) made this decision 30 years ago?

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keithsman
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily.

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schillid
Mick Taylor on cutting back on eating: "I fed myself too much."

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Hairball

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schillid
Mick Taylor on cutting back on eating: "I fed myself too much."

Full quote:

“It’s been about a year now, I pulled the plug on it. I got fed up with eating. It was time to quit, just like all the other stuff.
I don’t notice any difference really – except for I don’t eat. I wasn’t feeling right. I’ve done it. I didn’t want that anymore.”

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Hairball
"I'm the Boss" -

Welcome back keithsman - been a long time, but it seems like only yesterday!



How do you think this applies to Mick? He has an intense interest with "youngsters" - not only musicians, but girlfriends too.
As for the music aspect, do you think his interest and intense contact with youngsters has helped with the music he creates? Whether solo or with the Stones?
Surely it gives him alot of vigor to go out to clubs and stay up to date with the latest trends, but when he tries to channel that youthful vibe musically- especially at his age now - doesn't seem to come off very well imo.

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keithsman

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Hairball
"I'm the Boss" -

Welcome back keithsman - been a long time, but it seems like only yesterday!

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georgie48
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily.

How do you think this applies to Mick? He has an intense interest with "youngsters" - not only musicians, but girlfriends too.
As for the music aspect, do you think his interest and intense contact with youngsters has helped with the music he creates? Whether solo or with the Stones?
Surely it gives him alot of vigor to go out to clubs and stay up to date with the latest trends, but when he tries to channel that youthful vibe musically- especially at his age now - doesn't seem to come off very well imo.

Sorry Hairball but the quote you have from Keithsman isn't my quote, not a quote from Keithsman

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georgie48

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Doxa

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Witness



However, Doxa, are you not on this occasion presenting too much of a one factor explanation of this band's development through major, medium and minor peaks and relative and sometimes absolute slumps, that is, with a focus on Keith's part of it. From your exposition it is as if, were it not for Keith's drug use, he would have contributed to creativity without any stops. And somehow you have, again on this occasion, abstracted from characterisic points of their development. Especially from what one may call their artistic turn that THEIR SATANIC MAJESTYS REQUEST paved the way for. Also, on the other hand, from the exhaustion that GOATS HEAD SOUP in its lethargy displays from musical innovation during the preceding years, for instance in one of Keith's best Keith sung songs," Coming Down Again". Later on, past their artistic period, there was still music made that instead of 'artistic, may be described as deeply inspirational. I am referring to the Pathe Marconi albums, of which Keith has his share. And when both Keith and Mick after that time period, influenced by their disagreements on material, the two of them do not write quite as good songs as in the past, one ought to be aware that the more reserved reception to their albums from their conservative buying public has contributed to take away incentives to be more active in music making.

In other words, Keith's use of drugs and alcohol has had its impact, I don't object, but in a richer context, which I have only alluded to. It is paradox for me to remind you, you know so very much more than me about these subjects. But you seem almost to have been intoxicated (!) by the perspective you chose.

Well, I think the whole story of the (downhill of) creativity of the Stones in general and Keith in particular is much richer and complicated than I described above. Of course. What I did was to just emphasize one factor, and I really don't have any clue if anything I said holds court (or to what extent). It was just one consistent and coherent way (or attempt to that) to explain certain phenomenons we have wittnessed along the years. It was controversial for sure because for once I tried look the case without typical non-natural heroism involved in discussing the topic of Keith and drugs. Just a human, raw and naked perspective (without any glamour and myths) reflecting what drugs and booze does for one's behavior in the long run.

But like I said that's not the way I generally like seeing the Stones. For example, I much rather like to see Mick Jagger not wanting to co-work with Keith because Mick doesn't find Keith 'inspiring' enough (or for some other 'pure' artistic reasons) but not because of Keith's unbearable drunken behavior. The latter just sounds way too harsh, easy and 'naturalistic' explanation. Nor I don't like to see Keith or the Stones losing their true muse and focus after EXILE due to their heavy drugs use. I rather like to see them just running out of fresh ideas, them of completing everything they know and can by EXILE, and thereby having a 'natural' artistic downhill (or, if one likes, just getting old in basically young man's game). Or like with Keith, him by then having gotten about any sensible new idea from the open tuning that was somehow within the reach of his curious mind. Him just running out of bullets. Not that of him shooting most of his creative cells in his brains out. But I am afraid that that of trying to tell everything in pure artistic terms isn't satisfactory enough, and that one needs certain causal, non-musical stories to complete the picture.

I actually hate using the drug card in explaining anything in music, but sometimes I need to admit that it might have a real explanatory role in trying to understand their doings. Both positively and negatively. My story above stemmed out of that. But I hope anyone sees the hypothetical and over-simplifying (and, of course, rhetorical) character my story has. It wasn't written to be taken literally, but just to open up one possible perspective to consider.

- Doxa

Doxa and Witness, I read your discussions with real interest. To some extend there is a lot of truth in them, but, guessing you are both closer to my age than to "youngsters", I like to add an aspect that has nothing to do with drugs. It's the process of aging. How few youngsters from the sixties and on have been creating inspirational music decades later? The process of aging includes "building up" experience. Experience as such is already a thread to spontaneity. In fact experience of "elder" may be useful for "youngsters", but for the "elder" it often becomes a filter that takes away spontaneity. Off course, being surrounded by all those people who look upon you as being "gods" doesn't help either.
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily. You can see that happen a lot in the music world. And it works both ways! I've never been disappointed in new Stones material over the decades (okay, there is always the odd song) and I look forward to their new album with confidence.
Maybe that other great band, U2, will find new inspiration that way, because ...

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Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball
"I'm the Boss" -

Welcome back keithsman - been a long time, but it seems like only yesterday!

Quote
georgie48
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily.

How do you think this applies to Mick? He has an intense interest with "youngsters" - not only musicians, but girlfriends too.
As for the music aspect, do you think his interest and intense contact with youngsters has helped with the music he creates? Whether solo or with the Stones?
Surely it gives him alot of vigor to go out to clubs and stay up to date with the latest trends, but when he tries to channel that youthful vibe musically- especially at his age now - doesn't seem to come off very well imo.

Sorry Hairball but the quote you have from Keithsman isn't my quote, not a quote from Keithsman

Oops sorry keithsman - my mistake - fixed it.
But now that you're here, wondering what you're thoughts are on this?

And it's always nice to hear from georgie48 - maybe he can chime in as well!
Mick and the Fountain of Youth...might be a good name for his new band if the Stones ever call it quits.

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beachbreak
Many musicians peaked artistically when they were on drugs and booze.

IMHO it didn't hurt Keith one bit in terms of his music.

Didn't he say he got a lot more out of it than it got out of him?

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keithsman

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Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball
"I'm the Boss" -

Welcome back keithsman - been a long time, but it seems like only yesterday!

Quote
georgie48
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily.

How do you think this applies to Mick? He has an intense interest with "youngsters" - not only musicians, but girlfriends too.
As for the music aspect, do you think his interest and intense contact with youngsters has helped with the music he creates? Whether solo or with the Stones?
Surely it gives him alot of vigor to go out to clubs and stay up to date with the latest trends, but when he tries to channel that youthful vibe musically- especially at his age now - doesn't seem to come off very well imo.

Sorry Hairball but the quote you have from Keithsman isn't my quote, not a quote from Keithsman

Oops sorry keithsman - my mistake - fixed it.
But now that you're here, wondering what you're thoughts are on this?

And it's always nice to hear from georgie48 - maybe he can chime in as well!
Mick and the Fountain of Youth...might be a good name for his new band if the Stones ever call it quits.

Yeah cheers Hairball, as i say i'm off for a break .

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Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball
"I'm the Boss" -

Welcome back keithsman - been a long time, but it seems like only yesterday!

Quote
georgie48
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily.

How do you think this applies to Mick? He has an intense interest with "youngsters" - not only musicians, but girlfriends too.
As for the music aspect, do you think his interest and intense contact with youngsters has helped with the music he creates? Whether solo or with the Stones?
Surely it gives him alot of vigor to go out to clubs and stay up to date with the latest trends, but when he tries to channel that youthful vibe musically- especially at his age now - doesn't seem to come off very well imo.

Sorry Hairball but the quote you have from Keithsman isn't my quote, not a quote from Keithsman

Oops sorry keithsman - my mistake - fixed it.
But now that you're here, wondering what you're thoughts are on this?

And it's always nice to hear from georgie48 - maybe he can chime in as well!
Mick and the Fountain of Youth...might be a good name for his new band if the Stones ever call it quits.

Quote
Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball
"I'm the Boss" -

Welcome back keithsman - been a long time, but it seems like only yesterday!

Quote
georgie48
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily.

How do you think this applies to Mick? He has an intense interest with "youngsters" - not only musicians, but girlfriends too.
As for the music aspect, do you think his interest and intense contact with youngsters has helped with the music he creates? Whether solo or with the Stones?
Surely it gives him alot of vigor to go out to clubs and stay up to date with the latest trends, but when he tries to channel that youthful vibe musically- especially at his age now - doesn't seem to come off very well imo.

Sorry Hairball but the quote you have from Keithsman isn't my quote, not a quote from Keithsman

Oops sorry keithsman - my mistake - fixed it.
But now that you're here, wondering what you're thoughts are on this?

And it's always nice to hear from georgie48 - maybe he can chime in as well!
Mick and the Fountain of Youth...might be a good name for his new band if the Stones ever call it quits.

Yeah cheers Hairball, as i say i'm off for a break .

I assume you edited out that reply as to not upset a certain contingent, but then again that's never stopped you (or myself) from voicing an opinion in the past, nor should it.
I thought it made alot of sense and was a worthy post, but will leave it at that. See you back here tomorrow.

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keithsman

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Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball
"I'm the Boss" -

Welcome back keithsman - been a long time, but it seems like only yesterday!

Quote
georgie48
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily.

How do you think this applies to Mick? He has an intense interest with "youngsters" - not only musicians, but girlfriends too.
As for the music aspect, do you think his interest and intense contact with youngsters has helped with the music he creates? Whether solo or with the Stones?
Surely it gives him alot of vigor to go out to clubs and stay up to date with the latest trends, but when he tries to channel that youthful vibe musically- especially at his age now - doesn't seem to come off very well imo.

Sorry Hairball but the quote you have from Keithsman isn't my quote, not a quote from Keithsman

Oops sorry keithsman - my mistake - fixed it.
But now that you're here, wondering what you're thoughts are on this?

And it's always nice to hear from georgie48 - maybe he can chime in as well!
Mick and the Fountain of Youth...might be a good name for his new band if the Stones ever call it quits.

Yeah cheers Hairball, as i say i'm off for a break .

I assume you edited out that reply as to not upset a certain contingent, but then again that's never stopped you (or myself) from voicing an opinion in the past, nor should it.
I thought it made alot of sense and was a worthy post, but will leave it at that. See you back here tomorrow.

You got it Hairball, they wear you down to a point that it's just not worth having an opinion any more, too much intimidation from too many posters.

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retired_dog
It seems to take only one link per post, so here is the second one (with the girl):

video: [www.youtube.com]

Cheerio!

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harlem shuffle
So Keitsmen why do you Edit you,re post against Jagger? I saw the post last night,and i am shocked.You called Mick Jagger a phedofile pig.So why do you Edit IT?I think that,s you,re personal opinion,so why do you take IT off?

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retired_dog

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keithsman

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Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball

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keithsman

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Hairball
"I'm the Boss" -

Welcome back keithsman - been a long time, but it seems like only yesterday!

Quote
georgie48
Intense contact with "youngsters" is one way of taking away that filter. And it then can result in the return of some of that "ancient" spontaneity ... temporarily.

How do you think this applies to Mick? He has an intense interest with "youngsters" - not only musicians, but girlfriends too.
As for the music aspect, do you think his interest and intense contact with youngsters has helped with the music he creates? Whether solo or with the Stones?
Surely it gives him alot of vigor to go out to clubs and stay up to date with the latest trends, but when he tries to channel that youthful vibe musically- especially at his age now - doesn't seem to come off very well imo.

Sorry Hairball but the quote you have from Keithsman isn't my quote, not a quote from Keithsman

Oops sorry keithsman - my mistake - fixed it.
But now that you're here, wondering what you're thoughts are on this?

And it's always nice to hear from georgie48 - maybe he can chime in as well!
Mick and the Fountain of Youth...might be a good name for his new band if the Stones ever call it quits.

Yeah cheers Hairball, as i say i'm off for a break .

I assume you edited out that reply as to not upset a certain contingent, but then again that's never stopped you (or myself) from voicing an opinion in the past, nor should it.
I thought it made alot of sense and was a worthy post, but will leave it at that. See you back here tomorrow.

You got it Hairball, they wear you down to a point that it's just not worth having an opinion any more, too much intimidation from too many posters.

I've got something for you:

video: [www.youtube.com]

Do what the girl in the second video does: Lighten up, keithsman! Nobody wants to bring you down here. And remember: It all happened for a reason...

Merry Christmas!

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keithsman

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harlem shuffle
So Keitsmen why do you Edit you,re post against Jagger? I saw the post last night,and i am shocked.You called Mick Jagger a phedofile pig.So why do you Edit IT?I think that,s you,re personal opinion,so why do you take IT off?

No i didn't, what a horrible thing to say, BV should be able to look at what i posted, it wasn't anything like that.

What a cheap trick to try and get someone banned, absolutely despicable troll like behavior, you should apologize, that's not done here, no one goes that low in all the time i have watched this site.

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harlem shuffle

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keithsman

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harlem shuffle
So Keitsmen why do you Edit you,re post against Jagger? I saw the post last night,and i am shocked.You called Mick Jagger a phedofile pig.So why do you Edit IT?I think that,s you,re personal opinion,so why do you take IT off?

No i didn't, what a horrible thing to say, BV should be able to look at what i posted, it wasn't anything like that.

What a cheap trick to try and get someone banned, absolutely despicable troll like behavior, you should apologize, that's not done here, no one goes that low in all the time i have watched this site.

I saw what you posted last night,so.no point to deny it.You can come up with last nights post,before you edit it.

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harlem shuffle
It doesent matter what you say Keitsmen,i saw it and probably someone else alsow.
And Hairball was aggrying with you,so,to have him AS a witness mist be a joke

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harlem shuffle
So Keitsmen why do you Edit you,re post against Jagger? I saw the post last night,and i am shocked.You called Mick Jagger a phedofile pig.So why do you Edit IT?I think that,s you,re personal opinion,so why do you take IT off?