Tell Me :
Talk
No, he did not. The credit was given to K. D. Lang. That is not called stealing.
Nice authorities you have.
- Doxa
Steal? Isn't Lang credited?
The authority in this case is Keith Richards. Did you even read the article?
"Richards explained that the Stones machine went into overdrive to avoid a massive lawsuit: "So I had to call up (our manager) and all the heavy-duty lawyers, and I said, have this thing checked out right now otherwise we're going to be sued. And within 24-hours, I got a phone call: You're right. We had to include K.D. Land in the writing credits."
Exactly.K.D. Lang got writing credits.
That's not a steal.
My 1970 vinyl copy of Ya Ya's has credited "Trad arr. Jagger/Richard" concerning Love In Vain.
That has been a mistake,steal..whatever you want to call it and has been corrected later on giving Robert Johnson credits.
But if you want to insist on Anybody seen my Baby as a steal...well then...I'm out.
That's too stupid.
In the US, true. In the UK, you can credit a song to the writer and use the general term "Copyright Control" in case he has no publisher.
I have to be honest: to me 'Just Another Night' sounds closer to ripping off 'Constant Craving' than that Patrick Alley song.
I guess that's what happens when the creative well starts to run dry - you start "borrowing" from a variety of sources.
As for Just Another Night, while the only real similarities between the two songs are the title and perhaps a few repeated "just another night" lines, imo Patrick Alley's version is much better...smooth timeless Jamaican reggae w/classy instrumentation and production vs. Mick's overproduced pop drivel which already sounded dated at the time of it's release.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
You just explained exactly why it was NOT stolen! I am not following your logic at all??? They did not do what Zeppelin used to do all the time and not give credit when they used a take another artist's melody and wait to see if they get sued.
Know what? Rap part of Baby doesn't bother me at all.
Aerosmith reference doesn't work.
Walk this Way epic mash up of rock and rap was very likely Rubin's idea. Rubin was also producing Beastie Boys at the time. I am quite sure that Rubin picked up the idea from the street.
As for the need of lawyers, we too have families that we gotta feed!
C
Good.
There were similarities between the two songs. The Stones did the right thing by adding her to the credit and paying for sounding a little like K D's song.
Thanks. I never thought this post would get a reply. I found the black and white photo and remembered the case.
I remember the case when it happened and wanted badly for Jagger to win since he's not a thief. Then I researched the story and found a few things to go with the photo of Mick signing the autograph outside the courtroom.
The K D Lang story goes that Keith's Daughter heard Anybody Seen My Baby and said it sounded like K D's Constant Craving. btw, it's not stealing when you pay for something and give proper credit.
[www.youtube.com]
Mick Jagger - Just Another Night - Official - YouTube
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-09 12:56 by exilestones.
Thx for the laughs!
Funnily, the story of "Love In Vain" is not that simple. In original LET IT BLEED the song is credited to this mysterious fellow called Woody Payne. There are different theories who or what that guy is (like he is a lost cousin of Nanker Phelge or just some fellow who decided to pick up Johnson song rights in early 60's from public domain and managed to fool people like The Stones & ABKCO and later The Blues Brothers... I have written about it here in the past).
My guess is that ABKCO realized the foul play by Payne and corrected it to YA'YA'S! next year (thereby getting all credits to Jagger/Richards by its "trad. arr." status) before Robert Johnson people set the record straight (was it around 1978 or something).
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-09 14:41 by Doxa.
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Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: October 9, 2018 00:16
1988
Mick Jagger Wins Court Battle
Case focused on authorship of “Just Another Night”
Mick Jagger in 1987.
Dave Hogan/Hulton Archive/Getty Images
Mick Jagger emerged as the victor in a highly publicized civil suit that charged him with stealing the song “Just Another Night” from an obscure reggae artist. Jagger’s song appeared on his 1985 solo album She’s the Boss.
A six-person jury in White Plains, New York, dismissed all copyright-infringement claims made by Patrick Alley, a Jamaican resident of the Bronx, who wrote his song “Just Another Night” in 1979 and recorded and released it four years later. In reaching its decision, the jury said Alley failed to prove that Jagger had ever heard or been aware of Alley’s song.
Following the trial’s conclusion, Jagger characterized himself as the victim of a spurious action. “I don’t think the plaintiff really believed his song was stolen,” said Jagger. “They saw a chance for themselves and were going to take it.”
Among the highlights of the week-long case were three days of testimony by Jagger, who provided a rare glimpse into his work habits when he played a succession of homemade and studio tapes demonstrating the development of his song. Cross-examination by Alley’s attorney – attempting to prove that Jagger could have heard Alley’s song on the radio – provided one of the trial’s lighter moments when Jagger admitted that he listens to a classical radio station when he wakes up. “I used to like to listen to rock music in the morning,” said the singer, “but not anymore.”
This story is from the June 2, 1988 issue of Rolling Stone.
++++++
U.S. Jury Says Jagger Did Not Steal Hit Song
By JON PARELES APRIL 27, 1988
The New York Times Archives
Mick Jagger did not steal another musician's song, a Federal jury in White Plains ruled yesterday. The six-member jury found that ''Just Another Night,'' the single that led off the 1985 ''She's the Boss,'' Mr. Jagger's first solo album after two decades with the Rolling Stones, did not infringe the copyright on a song called ''Just Another Night'' by Patrick Alley, a Jamaican reggae singer who lives in the Bronx.
''My reputation is really cleared,'' Mr. Jagger told reporters afterward. ''If you're well known, people stand up and take shots at you. It's one of those things in a litigious society.''
The testimony included live and recorded music. In the course of the seven-day trial, presided over by Judge Gerard L. Goettel, a Juilliard faculty member played piano; a top Jamaican studio musician, Sly Dunbar, played drums, and Mr. Jagger sang snatches of ''Jumpin' Jack Flash,'' ''Brown Suger'' and ''Miss You'' from the witness stand. More Music in the Courtroom
Tapes of Mr. Alley's song, a reggae ballad in a major key, and Mr. Jagger's song, an up-tempo rocker in a minor key, were played. Mr. Jagger also played work tapes to show the genesis of his ''Just Another Night,'' and lawyers for both sides sang a few lines. At recesses and lunch breaks during the trial, Mr. Jagger signed autographs; on Monday night, when the jury deliberated for three and a half hours before being sent home for the night by Judge Goettel, a crowd of fans broke a courthouse door in hopes of reaching the singer.
Mr. Alley and his lawyers had contended that Mr. Jagger had either heard the song, recorded in 1979 and released on Mr. Alley's own label in 1983, or that Mr. Dunbar had brought it to his attention during recording sessions for ''She's the Boss.'' Mr. Dunbar testified that he had worked on thousands of songs, and could not recall if Mr. Alley's ''Just Another Night'' was one on which he had played.
The case revolved around whether the songs' choruses were similar: Mr. Alley's is ''Can I spend another, just another night, just another night with you,'' and Mr. Jagger's is ''Give me just another night, just another night with you/Give me just another kiss, just before the dawn breaks through.'' #2 Sides, 2 Versions Both sides exhibited transcriptions of the songs and brought expert witnesses to explain them. On Mr. Alley's side, Andrew William Thomas, a musician who teaches pre-collegiate courses on Saturdays at Juilliard testified that the songs were identical, exhibiting his own much-debated transcription of the Jagger song; in his closing summation Peter Parcher, one of Mr. Jagger's lawyers, characterized Mr. Thomas and his transcription as ''as phony as a $19 bill.''
On Mr. Jagger's side, which exhibited the commercially printed sheet music of the Jagger song, Michael White, the chairman of the literature and materials division at Juilliard, testified that the melodies had only their closing, tonic note in common when transposed into the same key. There was extended testimony over the songs' differences in tempo, rhythm and structure, and over what proportion of each song would constitute ''substantial similarity.'' Thomas Farley, one of Mr. Alley's lawyers, said in his summation that Mr. Jagger had used ''the spark, the guts'' of Mr. Alley's song.
In his charge to the jury, Judge Goettel said that to prove infringement, Mr. Alley had to demonstrate that Mr. Jagger had had access to the song and that the two songs were substantially similar. In addition, he said, to hold Mr. Jagger liable the jury would have to decide that he had not created his song independently.
''The use of the phrase 'Just another night with you' is not enough, standing alone, to constitute infringement,'' he said. He also instructed the jury that ''accidental similarity is not actionable plagiarism.'' Some Similar Cases
Copyright-infringement charges are frequent events in popular music, although few reach the courtroom.
One of the most celebrated copyright cases involved George Harrison's ''My Sweet Lord,'' a No. 1 hit in 1970. A 1976 lawsuit established that Mr. Harrison had unknowingly plagiarized the song's structure from the Chiffons' hit ''He's So Fine.'' At that point, however, the Beatles' ex-manager, Allen Klein, had bought the rights to ''He's So Fine,'' and the damages assessed Mr. Harrison were exactly what Mr. Klein had paid for those rights.
Michael Jackson was sued unsuccessfully in 1983 over the song ''The Girl Is Mine.'' In 1983, an Illinois jury found that the Bee Gees had copied the song ''How Deep Is Your Love''; a judge overturned the decision and was upheld on appeal. A jury verdict that ''Feelings,'' the Morris Albert hit, had infringed the copyright of a French pop song, is on appeal. Ray Parker Jr. made an undisclosed out-of-court settlement involving the song ''Ghostbusters'' because of its similarity to Huey Lewis and the News's ''I Want a New Drug.''
++++++++
Reggae Artist Appeals Jagger Copyright Case
AP JUNE 2, 1988
The reggae musician who charged that Mick Jagger stole his music has appealed the jury verdict against him, the musician's lawyer said.
Jerome G. Lee Jr., the lawyer for the musician, Patrick Alley, said he filed a notice of appeal in Federal District Court in White Plains because of new evidence he said he has found that Mr. Jagger could have heard Mr. Alley's song.
Mr. Alley, a 36-year-old musician from the Bronx, sued Mr. Jagger for copyright infringement, contending that the chorus of Mr. Jagger's 1985 hit, ''Just Another Night,'' had been lifted from his 1979 song of the same title.
The jury ruled in Mr. Jagger's favor, finding that the British rock star could not have heard Mr. Alley's song, which was released both in New York and Britain and played on several small radio stations in New York in 1983.
Mr. Alley said he copyrighted his song in 1983 because the drummer Sly Dunbar, who played with Mr. Jagger on the album, told him his song was ''being ripped off,'' according to trial testimony. Mr. Alley said Mr. Dunbar also played on his version.
Mr. Alley contended that Mr. Jagger had earned as much as $6 million from the song. Mr. Jagger, whose song was copyrighted in 1985, testified that he had never heard Mr. Alley's song.
++++++++++
UPI ARCHIVES APRIL 22, 1988
Jagger plays tapes to prove he didn't steal hit song
ByRHEA MANDULO
ART by Christine Cornel
WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. -- The Rolling Stones' Mick Jagger played early recordings of his smash single 'Just Another Night' in federal court to prove that he did not steal the song from a Bronx reggae composer.
Jagger testified in U.S. District Court in White Plains Thursday, defending himself against a copyright infringement suit, and played the tapes to chronicle his development of the disputed song he claims is his own.
Patrick Alley, 37, a Jamaican-born Bronx musician, claims that a song he wrote in 1979 and recorded in 1983 constituted 'the whole roots' of Jagger's 1985 solo hit, which sold more than 2 million copies.
Alley is suing Jagger and CBS Records for the estimated $6 million in profits from Jagger's first solo album, 'She's the Boss,' which included 'Just Another Night.'
On the trial's fourth day, Jagger leaned back on the witness stand as the jury listened to informal early recordings of 'Just Another Night' that the 43-year-old rock star said were made in France in November 1983.
As another sample tape made in a Manhattan studio in February and March 1984 was played, Jagger explained that it showed the song's evolution from a simple melody to a recordable arrangement.
Outside the courtroom, his attorney, L. Peter Parcher said, 'Mick Jagger worked extremely long to develop that song.'
Jagger testified he has always given credit to artists whose songs he liked well enough to record. He listed Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Jimmy Reed and Otis Redding as artists whose copyrighted songs he has used.
Jagger told the jury of four men and two women he was not a fan of Alley's song, which he said he first heard in his lawyer's office.
'I think there are a lot of people in this courtroom who don't particularly like my music, but I personally don't like that song,' Jagger said, describing Alley's tune as 'a rather plaintive love song with a reggae beat.
'It's rather kind of sentimental,' he said.
Jagger has been in the normally quiet suburban city of White Plains since Monday for the suit, in which music experts have clashed and testimony often has been mixed with musical demonstrations and recordings.
Early in the day, Daniel Ricigliano, chairman of the theory department at the Manhattan School of Music, said Jagger copied only his own previous song styles with 'Just Another Night.'
Playing on an electronic keyboard, Ricigliano referred to other Jagger songs recorded by the Rolling Stones, including 'Brown Sugar,' 'Beast of Burden,' and 'Heart of Stone.'
He also said Alley's composition is 'upbeat, professing love' while Jagger's style is 'blue.'
'Patrick Alley's tune asks, 'Can I spend another night with you?' while Jagger's demands, 'Give me just another night,'' Ricigliano said.
++++++++
Mick Jagger Wins Court Battle
Case focused on authorship of “Just Another Night”
Mick Jagger in 1987.
Dave Hogan/Hulton Archive/Getty Images
Mick Jagger emerged as the victor in a highly publicized civil suit that charged him with stealing the song “Just Another Night” from an obscure reggae artist. Jagger’s song appeared on his 1985 solo album She’s the Boss.
A six-person jury in White Plains, New York, dismissed all copyright-infringement claims made by Patrick Alley, a Jamaican resident of the Bronx, who wrote his song “Just Another Night” in 1979 and recorded and released it four years later. In reaching its decision, the jury said Alley failed to prove that Jagger had ever heard or been aware of Alley’s song.
Following the trial’s conclusion, Jagger characterized himself as the victim of a spurious action. “I don’t think the plaintiff really believed his song was stolen,” said Jagger. “They saw a chance for themselves and were going to take it.”
Among the highlights of the week-long case were three days of testimony by Jagger, who provided a rare glimpse into his work habits when he played a succession of homemade and studio tapes demonstrating the development of his song. Cross-examination by Alley’s attorney – attempting to prove that Jagger could have heard Alley’s song on the radio – provided one of the trial’s lighter moments when Jagger admitted that he listens to a classical radio station when he wakes up. “I used to like to listen to rock music in the morning,” said the singer, “but not anymore.”
This story is from the June 2, 1988 issue of Rolling Stone.
++++++
U.S. Jury Says Jagger Did Not Steal Hit Song
By JON PARELES APRIL 27, 1988
The New York Times Archives
Mick Jagger did not steal another musician's song, a Federal jury in White Plains ruled yesterday. The six-member jury found that ''Just Another Night,'' the single that led off the 1985 ''She's the Boss,'' Mr. Jagger's first solo album after two decades with the Rolling Stones, did not infringe the copyright on a song called ''Just Another Night'' by Patrick Alley, a Jamaican reggae singer who lives in the Bronx.
''My reputation is really cleared,'' Mr. Jagger told reporters afterward. ''If you're well known, people stand up and take shots at you. It's one of those things in a litigious society.''
The testimony included live and recorded music. In the course of the seven-day trial, presided over by Judge Gerard L. Goettel, a Juilliard faculty member played piano; a top Jamaican studio musician, Sly Dunbar, played drums, and Mr. Jagger sang snatches of ''Jumpin' Jack Flash,'' ''Brown Suger'' and ''Miss You'' from the witness stand. More Music in the Courtroom
Tapes of Mr. Alley's song, a reggae ballad in a major key, and Mr. Jagger's song, an up-tempo rocker in a minor key, were played. Mr. Jagger also played work tapes to show the genesis of his ''Just Another Night,'' and lawyers for both sides sang a few lines. At recesses and lunch breaks during the trial, Mr. Jagger signed autographs; on Monday night, when the jury deliberated for three and a half hours before being sent home for the night by Judge Goettel, a crowd of fans broke a courthouse door in hopes of reaching the singer.
Mr. Alley and his lawyers had contended that Mr. Jagger had either heard the song, recorded in 1979 and released on Mr. Alley's own label in 1983, or that Mr. Dunbar had brought it to his attention during recording sessions for ''She's the Boss.'' Mr. Dunbar testified that he had worked on thousands of songs, and could not recall if Mr. Alley's ''Just Another Night'' was one on which he had played.
The case revolved around whether the songs' choruses were similar: Mr. Alley's is ''Can I spend another, just another night, just another night with you,'' and Mr. Jagger's is ''Give me just another night, just another night with you/Give me just another kiss, just before the dawn breaks through.'' #2 Sides, 2 Versions Both sides exhibited transcriptions of the songs and brought expert witnesses to explain them. On Mr. Alley's side, Andrew William Thomas, a musician who teaches pre-collegiate courses on Saturdays at Juilliard testified that the songs were identical, exhibiting his own much-debated transcription of the Jagger song; in his closing summation Peter Parcher, one of Mr. Jagger's lawyers, characterized Mr. Thomas and his transcription as ''as phony as a $19 bill.''
On Mr. Jagger's side, which exhibited the commercially printed sheet music of the Jagger song, Michael White, the chairman of the literature and materials division at Juilliard, testified that the melodies had only their closing, tonic note in common when transposed into the same key. There was extended testimony over the songs' differences in tempo, rhythm and structure, and over what proportion of each song would constitute ''substantial similarity.'' Thomas Farley, one of Mr. Alley's lawyers, said in his summation that Mr. Jagger had used ''the spark, the guts'' of Mr. Alley's song.
In his charge to the jury, Judge Goettel said that to prove infringement, Mr. Alley had to demonstrate that Mr. Jagger had had access to the song and that the two songs were substantially similar. In addition, he said, to hold Mr. Jagger liable the jury would have to decide that he had not created his song independently.
''The use of the phrase 'Just another night with you' is not enough, standing alone, to constitute infringement,'' he said. He also instructed the jury that ''accidental similarity is not actionable plagiarism.'' Some Similar Cases
Copyright-infringement charges are frequent events in popular music, although few reach the courtroom.
One of the most celebrated copyright cases involved George Harrison's ''My Sweet Lord,'' a No. 1 hit in 1970. A 1976 lawsuit established that Mr. Harrison had unknowingly plagiarized the song's structure from the Chiffons' hit ''He's So Fine.'' At that point, however, the Beatles' ex-manager, Allen Klein, had bought the rights to ''He's So Fine,'' and the damages assessed Mr. Harrison were exactly what Mr. Klein had paid for those rights.
Michael Jackson was sued unsuccessfully in 1983 over the song ''The Girl Is Mine.'' In 1983, an Illinois jury found that the Bee Gees had copied the song ''How Deep Is Your Love''; a judge overturned the decision and was upheld on appeal. A jury verdict that ''Feelings,'' the Morris Albert hit, had infringed the copyright of a French pop song, is on appeal. Ray Parker Jr. made an undisclosed out-of-court settlement involving the song ''Ghostbusters'' because of its similarity to Huey Lewis and the News's ''I Want a New Drug.''
++++++++
Reggae Artist Appeals Jagger Copyright Case
AP JUNE 2, 1988
The reggae musician who charged that Mick Jagger stole his music has appealed the jury verdict against him, the musician's lawyer said.
Jerome G. Lee Jr., the lawyer for the musician, Patrick Alley, said he filed a notice of appeal in Federal District Court in White Plains because of new evidence he said he has found that Mr. Jagger could have heard Mr. Alley's song.
Mr. Alley, a 36-year-old musician from the Bronx, sued Mr. Jagger for copyright infringement, contending that the chorus of Mr. Jagger's 1985 hit, ''Just Another Night,'' had been lifted from his 1979 song of the same title.
The jury ruled in Mr. Jagger's favor, finding that the British rock star could not have heard Mr. Alley's song, which was released both in New York and Britain and played on several small radio stations in New York in 1983.
Mr. Alley said he copyrighted his song in 1983 because the drummer Sly Dunbar, who played with Mr. Jagger on the album, told him his song was ''being ripped off,'' according to trial testimony. Mr. Alley said Mr. Dunbar also played on his version.
Mr. Alley contended that Mr. Jagger had earned as much as $6 million from the song. Mr. Jagger, whose song was copyrighted in 1985, testified that he had never heard Mr. Alley's song.
++++++++++
UPI ARCHIVES APRIL 22, 1988
Jagger plays tapes to prove he didn't steal hit song
ByRHEA MANDULO
ART by Christine Cornel
WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. -- The Rolling Stones' Mick Jagger played early recordings of his smash single 'Just Another Night' in federal court to prove that he did not steal the song from a Bronx reggae composer.
Jagger testified in U.S. District Court in White Plains Thursday, defending himself against a copyright infringement suit, and played the tapes to chronicle his development of the disputed song he claims is his own.
Patrick Alley, 37, a Jamaican-born Bronx musician, claims that a song he wrote in 1979 and recorded in 1983 constituted 'the whole roots' of Jagger's 1985 solo hit, which sold more than 2 million copies.
Alley is suing Jagger and CBS Records for the estimated $6 million in profits from Jagger's first solo album, 'She's the Boss,' which included 'Just Another Night.'
On the trial's fourth day, Jagger leaned back on the witness stand as the jury listened to informal early recordings of 'Just Another Night' that the 43-year-old rock star said were made in France in November 1983.
As another sample tape made in a Manhattan studio in February and March 1984 was played, Jagger explained that it showed the song's evolution from a simple melody to a recordable arrangement.
Outside the courtroom, his attorney, L. Peter Parcher said, 'Mick Jagger worked extremely long to develop that song.'
Jagger testified he has always given credit to artists whose songs he liked well enough to record. He listed Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Jimmy Reed and Otis Redding as artists whose copyrighted songs he has used.
Jagger told the jury of four men and two women he was not a fan of Alley's song, which he said he first heard in his lawyer's office.
'I think there are a lot of people in this courtroom who don't particularly like my music, but I personally don't like that song,' Jagger said, describing Alley's tune as 'a rather plaintive love song with a reggae beat.
'It's rather kind of sentimental,' he said.
Jagger has been in the normally quiet suburban city of White Plains since Monday for the suit, in which music experts have clashed and testimony often has been mixed with musical demonstrations and recordings.
Early in the day, Daniel Ricigliano, chairman of the theory department at the Manhattan School of Music, said Jagger copied only his own previous song styles with 'Just Another Night.'
Playing on an electronic keyboard, Ricigliano referred to other Jagger songs recorded by the Rolling Stones, including 'Brown Sugar,' 'Beast of Burden,' and 'Heart of Stone.'
He also said Alley's composition is 'upbeat, professing love' while Jagger's style is 'blue.'
'Patrick Alley's tune asks, 'Can I spend another night with you?' while Jagger's demands, 'Give me just another night,'' Ricigliano said.
++++++++
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 9, 2018 00:49
No, he did not. The credit was given to K. D. Lang. That is not called stealing.
Nice authorities you have.
- Doxa
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: October 9, 2018 00:50
The only comparison I can find is the title "Just Another Night" and the drumbeat.......
[www.youtube.com]
__________________________
[www.youtube.com]
__________________________
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: October 9, 2018 00:52
If someone honestly thinks Mick stole Patrick Alley's song, I'd suspect they never bothered to listen to it. Hard to believe the suit actually made it to court on the basis of the chorus alone. Good on Mick and CBS for not offering to settle.
[www.youtube.com]
Likewise Virgin's lawyers were way too nervous over the similar melody to "Constant Craving" in the case of "Anybody Seen My Baby." Again, hardly "stolen."
Anyone believing Keith's daughter was the person who brought this up probably believes Muddy Waters was painting the ceiling at Chess Records in 1964.
[www.youtube.com]
Funny how we rarely have posts accusing Keith of ripping off "Thunder Island" for "Start Me Up."
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
Likewise Virgin's lawyers were way too nervous over the similar melody to "Constant Craving" in the case of "Anybody Seen My Baby." Again, hardly "stolen."
Anyone believing Keith's daughter was the person who brought this up probably believes Muddy Waters was painting the ceiling at Chess Records in 1964.
[www.youtube.com]
Funny how we rarely have posts accusing Keith of ripping off "Thunder Island" for "Start Me Up."
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 9, 2018 00:58
Steal? Isn't Lang credited?
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: October 9, 2018 01:37
Quote
Doxa
No, he did not. The credit was given to K. D. Lang. That is not called stealing.
Nice authorities you have.
- Doxa
The authority in this case is Keith Richards. Did you even read the article?
"Richards explained that the Stones machine went into overdrive to avoid a massive lawsuit: "So I had to call up (our manager) and all the heavy-duty lawyers, and I said, have this thing checked out right now otherwise we're going to be sued. And within 24-hours, I got a phone call: You're right. We had to include K.D. Land in the writing credits."
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
shortfatfanny
()
Date: October 9, 2018 02:10
Quote
StoneageQuote
Doxa
No, he did not. The credit was given to K. D. Lang. That is not called stealing.
Nice authorities you have.
- Doxa
The authority in this case is Keith Richards. Did you even read the article?
"Richards explained that the Stones machine went into overdrive to avoid a massive lawsuit: "So I had to call up (our manager) and all the heavy-duty lawyers, and I said, have this thing checked out right now otherwise we're going to be sued. And within 24-hours, I got a phone call: You're right. We had to include K.D. Land in the writing credits."
Exactly.K.D. Lang got writing credits.
That's not a steal.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: October 9, 2018 02:26
And why did K D Lang get writing credits for "Anybody Seen My Baby"? A song that she didn't write? Because Jagger stole the melody from her. But maybe you are talking jurisprudence now?
There you are perfectly right. By adding her as a song writer they avoided prosecution.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-09 02:26 by Stoneage.
There you are perfectly right. By adding her as a song writer they avoided prosecution.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-09 02:26 by Stoneage.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
shortfatfanny
()
Date: October 9, 2018 02:52
Quote
Stoneage
And why did K D Lang get writing credits for "Anybody Seen My Baby"? A song that she didn't write? Because Jagger stole the melody from her. But maybe you are talking jurisprudence now?
There you are perfectly right. By adding her as a song writer they avoided prosecution.
My 1970 vinyl copy of Ya Ya's has credited "Trad arr. Jagger/Richard" concerning Love In Vain.
That has been a mistake,steal..whatever you want to call it and has been corrected later on giving Robert Johnson credits.
But if you want to insist on Anybody seen my Baby as a steal...well then...I'm out.
That's too stupid.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: October 9, 2018 02:58
My 1970 vinyl copy of Ya Ya's has credited "Trad arr. Jagger/Richard" concerning Love In Vain.
That has been a mistake,steal..whatever you want to call it and has been corrected later on giving Robert Johnson credits.
Yeah but Johnson borrowed lyrics from Blind Lemon ...
One train's at the depot with the red and blue lights behind
One train's at the depot with the red and blue lights behind
Well, the blue light's the blues, the red light's the worried mind
…………………………..……………………………………………………………… Blind Lemon Jefferson - Dry Southern Blues
ROCKMAN
That has been a mistake,steal..whatever you want to call it and has been corrected later on giving Robert Johnson credits.
Yeah but Johnson borrowed lyrics from Blind Lemon ...
One train's at the depot with the red and blue lights behind
One train's at the depot with the red and blue lights behind
Well, the blue light's the blues, the red light's the worried mind
…………………………..……………………………………………………………… Blind Lemon Jefferson - Dry Southern Blues
ROCKMAN
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: October 9, 2018 03:04
exilestones, you got good stuff man! >
<
<Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: October 9, 2018 03:15
The Trad. Arr. credit for "Love in Vain" or "Stop Breaking Down" was not a mistake. You cannot credit a song to a writer who has no publisher. Once Robert Johnson's family (or those who claimed kinship at any rate) put things to right, ABKCO made amends with back royalties and credit.
In the case of "Anybody Seen My Baby" I agree with Mick it wasn't that similar and didn't need a concession made. I also see Virgin's point that if k. d. lang's publishing company did sue, it would have been the sort of bad publicity the album didn't need. They played it safe. One wonders if a backdoor deal wasn't made with Motown over "Out of Control." As it was, they had to settle out of court with Slim Gaillard's son over "Saint of Me" after he claimed the chorus was stolen from his song, "Oh Yeah." Have a listen to Mark Gaillard's work from the period and it's at least possible though this isn't the song in question since I couldn't locate it.
[www.youtube.com]
In the case of "Anybody Seen My Baby" I agree with Mick it wasn't that similar and didn't need a concession made. I also see Virgin's point that if k. d. lang's publishing company did sue, it would have been the sort of bad publicity the album didn't need. They played it safe. One wonders if a backdoor deal wasn't made with Motown over "Out of Control." As it was, they had to settle out of court with Slim Gaillard's son over "Saint of Me" after he claimed the chorus was stolen from his song, "Oh Yeah." Have a listen to Mark Gaillard's work from the period and it's at least possible though this isn't the song in question since I couldn't locate it.
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: October 9, 2018 05:07
Quote
Rocky Dijon
The Trad. Arr. credit for "Love in Vain" or "Stop Breaking Down" was not a mistake. You cannot credit a song to a writer who has no publisher. Once Robert Johnson's family (or those who claimed kinship at any rate) put things to right, ABKCO made amends with back royalties and credit.
In the case of "Anybody Seen My Baby" I agree with Mick it wasn't that similar and didn't need a concession made. I also see Virgin's point that if k. d. lang's publishing company did sue, it would have been the sort of bad publicity the album didn't need. They played it safe. One wonders if a backdoor deal wasn't made with Motown over "Out of Control." As it was, they had to settle out of court with Slim Gaillard's son over "Saint of Me" after he claimed the chorus was stolen from his song, "Oh Yeah." Have a listen to Mark Gaillard's work from the period and it's at least possible though this isn't the song in question since I couldn't locate it.
[www.youtube.com]
In the US, true. In the UK, you can credit a song to the writer and use the general term "Copyright Control" in case he has no publisher.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: October 9, 2018 05:24
Presumably the fact that ABKCO was based in New York was a factor then.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: October 9, 2018 05:42
Quote
Rocky Dijon
If someone honestly thinks Mick stole Patrick Alley's song, I'd suspect they never bothered to listen to it. Hard to believe the suit actually made it to court on the basis of the chorus alone. Good on Mick and CBS for not offering to settle.
[www.youtube.com]
Likewise Virgin's lawyers were way too nervous over the similar melody to "Constant Craving" in the case of "Anybody Seen My Baby." Again, hardly "stolen."
Anyone believing Keith's daughter was the person who brought this up probably believes Muddy Waters was painting the ceiling at Chess Records in 1964.
[www.youtube.com]
Funny how we rarely have posts accusing Keith of ripping off "Thunder Island" for "Start Me Up."
[www.youtube.com]
I have to be honest: to me 'Just Another Night' sounds closer to ripping off 'Constant Craving' than that Patrick Alley song.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: October 9, 2018 05:57
Just another basket case ….
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: October 9, 2018 06:36
I guess that's what happens when the creative well starts to run dry - you start "borrowing" from a variety of sources.
As for Just Another Night, while the only real similarities between the two songs are the title and perhaps a few repeated "just another night" lines, imo Patrick Alley's version is much better...smooth timeless Jamaican reggae w/classy instrumentation and production vs. Mick's overproduced pop drivel which already sounded dated at the time of it's release.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: October 9, 2018 08:54
Anybody seen my baby was the Stones at their best and simultaneously at their most pathetic.
It was a beautiful song and then in some misguided effort to seem current or edgy or who knows what they put a rap sequence in the middle of it.
This was akin to Clint Eastwood’s gunfighter character having the small cigar lit,the eyes squinted ...and then making a goofy face at the camera.
WTFck were you thinking? Aerosmith had meshed rap and rock in an epic manner 13 YEARS before.it didn’t fit in the song,it destroyed the flow,and seemed like people trying to be hip and failing miserably.
Is there really no one there who can speak up and say these things to them?
Then the corporate Stones Machine took over,oh god it sounds like someone else’s song,call The lawyers!!
The saddest part of the Vegas Corporate Stones is that it never crossed their minds to call a fellow musician,play the song for her and ask her ”are you cool with this?”
A few years later KD Lang was on the same flight as Mick and thanked him for the credit,she also told him she would have never sued them.
It was a beautiful song and then in some misguided effort to seem current or edgy or who knows what they put a rap sequence in the middle of it.
This was akin to Clint Eastwood’s gunfighter character having the small cigar lit,the eyes squinted ...and then making a goofy face at the camera.
WTFck were you thinking? Aerosmith had meshed rap and rock in an epic manner 13 YEARS before.it didn’t fit in the song,it destroyed the flow,and seemed like people trying to be hip and failing miserably.
Is there really no one there who can speak up and say these things to them?
Then the corporate Stones Machine took over,oh god it sounds like someone else’s song,call The lawyers!!
The saddest part of the Vegas Corporate Stones is that it never crossed their minds to call a fellow musician,play the song for her and ask her ”are you cool with this?”
A few years later KD Lang was on the same flight as Mick and thanked him for the credit,she also told him she would have never sued them.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Ket
()
Date: October 9, 2018 12:04
Quote
Stoneage
And why did K D Lang get writing credits for "Anybody Seen My Baby"? A song that she didn't write? Because Jagger stole the melody from her. But maybe you are talking jurisprudence now?
There you are perfectly right. By adding her as a song writer they avoided prosecution.
You just explained exactly why it was NOT stolen! I am not following your logic at all??? They did not do what Zeppelin used to do all the time and not give credit when they used a take another artist's melody and wait to see if they get sued.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: October 9, 2018 12:20
Quote
lem motlow
Anybody seen my baby was the Stones at their best and simultaneously at their most pathetic.
It was a beautiful song and then in some misguided effort to seem current or edgy or who knows what they put a rap sequence in the middle of it.
This was akin to Clint Eastwood’s gunfighter character having the small cigar lit,the eyes squinted ...and then making a goofy face at the camera.
WTFck were you thinking? Aerosmith had meshed rap and rock in an epic manner 13 YEARS before.it didn’t fit in the song,it destroyed the flow,and seemed like people trying to be hip and failing miserably.
Is there really no one there who can speak up and say these things to them?
Then the corporate Stones Machine took over,oh god it sounds like someone else’s song,call The lawyers!!
The saddest part of the Vegas Corporate Stones is that it never crossed their minds to call a fellow musician,play the song for her and ask her ”are you cool with this?”
A few years later KD Lang was on the same flight as Mick and thanked him for the credit,she also told him she would have never sued them.
Know what? Rap part of Baby doesn't bother me at all.
Aerosmith reference doesn't work.
Walk this Way epic mash up of rock and rap was very likely Rubin's idea. Rubin was also producing Beastie Boys at the time. I am quite sure that Rubin picked up the idea from the street.
As for the need of lawyers, we too have families that we gotta feed!
C
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: October 9, 2018 12:22
As Keith says, Jagger didn't steal the song deliberately off course. I can't fathom though that people can't hear the similarities between the songs. I heard it instantly because K.D Lang's song was a big hit then.
You don't need absolute pitch to hear it. Angela Richards heard it instantly according to Keith.
You don't need absolute pitch to hear it. Angela Richards heard it instantly according to Keith.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 9, 2018 12:38
Quote
Stoneage
As Keith says, Jagger didn't steal the song deliberately of course. I can't fathom though that people can't hear the similarities between the songs. I heard it instantly because K.D Lang's song was a big hit then.
You don't need absolute pitch to hear it. Angela Richards heard it instantly according to Keith.
Good.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: October 9, 2018 12:41
Quote
Stoneage
And why did K D Lang get writing credits for "Anybody Seen My Baby"? A song that she didn't write? Because Jagger stole the melody from her. But maybe you are talking jurisprudence now?
There you are perfectly right. By adding her as a song writer they avoided prosecution.
There were similarities between the two songs. The Stones did the right thing by adding her to the credit and paying for sounding a little like K D's song.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
windmelody
()
Date: October 9, 2018 12:45
Oh boy, I like Mick Jagger, I like JAN, but I just tried to watch the video - impossible, since it is so embarrassing.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: October 9, 2018 12:49
Quote
35love
exilestones, you got good stuff man! >
Thanks. I never thought this post would get a reply. I found the black and white photo and remembered the case.
I remember the case when it happened and wanted badly for Jagger to win since he's not a thief. Then I researched the story and found a few things to go with the photo of Mick signing the autograph outside the courtroom.
The K D Lang story goes that Keith's Daughter heard Anybody Seen My Baby and said it sounded like K D's Constant Craving. btw, it's not stealing when you pay for something and give proper credit.
[www.youtube.com]
Mick Jagger - Just Another Night - Official - YouTube
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-09 12:56 by exilestones.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
exhpart
()
Date: October 9, 2018 12:56
I recall something about Elizabeth Jagger had the K D Lang album Ingenue and playing it a lot and the possibility that the tune seeped into Mick's subconscious. It's a catchy song, Constant Craving I mean.
I remember being extremely surprised to see K D Lang was hanging out with the Stones lol.
I remember being extremely surprised to see K D Lang was hanging out with the Stones lol.
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
rollmops
()
Date: October 9, 2018 13:08
In the article it says that "Just Another Night" earned Jagger, at the time of trial, approximately $6 millions. That is a lot of dough for a song that was a hit but nothing compare to the Stones's mega hits that we all know. I wonder how much money, "satisfaction", "Start me Up", "Angie" etc... each have generated.
Rockandroll,
Mops
Rockandroll,
Mops
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: October 9, 2018 13:23
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Funny how we rarely have posts accusing Keith of ripping off "Thunder Island" for "Start Me Up."
[www.youtube.com]
Thx for the laughs!
Re: Just Another Night Case
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 9, 2018 14:20
Quote
Rocky Dijon
The Trad. Arr. credit for "Love in Vain" or "Stop Breaking Down" was not a mistake. You cannot credit a song to a writer who has no publisher. Once Robert Johnson's family (or those who claimed kinship at any rate) put things to right, ABKCO made amends with back royalties and credit.
Funnily, the story of "Love In Vain" is not that simple. In original LET IT BLEED the song is credited to this mysterious fellow called Woody Payne. There are different theories who or what that guy is (like he is a lost cousin of Nanker Phelge or just some fellow who decided to pick up Johnson song rights in early 60's from public domain and managed to fool people like The Stones & ABKCO and later The Blues Brothers... I have written about it here in the past).
My guess is that ABKCO realized the foul play by Payne and corrected it to YA'YA'S! next year (thereby getting all credits to Jagger/Richards by its "trad. arr." status) before Robert Johnson people set the record straight (was it around 1978 or something).
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-09 14:41 by Doxa.
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