What does this mean to you in the RS world?

Spotify, with whom I was coerced to participate a relationship with,
claims
‘Remastered’ versions I see the year ‘2009’ next to it often.
‘Remastered’ has meant a whole new version to me (‘Out Of Control’)
But now irritatingly
‘Crackin’ Up’ from the album ‘Love You Live’
is worse ‘remastered 2009’
than my beloved ITunes purchase 1977 version.
I played 1 after another.
There is a difference—- the 1997 version is clearer guitars, upfront I’d guess you call it.

Anyway. Back and forth.

2009 Universals are too loud. Technical term is brickwalled. The catalog on Virgin is preferable sound wise. I know my Virgin Love you Live is much cleaner than CBS or Universals. The weaving towards the end on Sympathy has definition that I did not even hear on vinyl.

Okay.
I never did understand ‘brickwalled’
On a Prince forum there was an intelligent detailed description with graphs,
but it is not something I felt important to retain.
Nor do I want to remember who had what year CBS, Virgin, Universal.
I’m sure they’ve all merged by now anyway as we whittle down to only a few BIG GIANTS.

Yes 2009 remasters are very bad.

Virgin CDs very good on the other hand.

It's very hard to know what you are hearing with your ears otherwise I would simply double down on Virgin CD's or rips of them. You cant hear a detailed description or listen to a graph.

What's the deal on this site about "comparing" versions? Am I able to post links to Virgin and Universal versions of a particular track?

I’m sorry Nick,
I was referring to digital releases.
‘Love You Live’ Rolling Stones Album released 1977.
I bought it from iTunes to listen thru my phone.
Now with a Spotify subscription,
they offer ‘Love You Live’ Rolling Stones REMASTERED 2009.

My original question:

What is 2009 offering me (digital only Spotify)
compared to Apple iTunes 1977

Who is the master?
A bricklayer?

<What does this mean to you in the RS world?>

A new master, based on the same mix, but with new settings of frequencies, use of effects, loudness etc.

Rarely any improvement in the digital world, imo. The Abbey Road-one (first Exile) was good.

It's all subjective, of course. To me, the CBS Remasters (1987) were the most like the original vinyl. The Virgin Remasters (1994) were the best ever on CD. The Universal Remasters (2009) were made for cell phones and a waste to me.

For ABKCO, the first Remasters (1986) were not that great. The second Remasters (2002) were amazing, especially on SACD Hybrid. The Mono Remasters (2016), despite most IORRians loving them, were a step backwards to me.

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35love
What is 2009 offering me (digital only Spotify)
compared to Apple iTunes 1977

Who is the master?
A bricklayer?

Both versions are the UMe reissues, remastered by Stephen Marcussen, who brickwalled everything.

Here is a visual (graph) version of brickwalled and, well, let's just call anything else normal.

The brickwalled version of Purple Rain is the top 2, you see how it has no headroom? It can't breathe. The normal (original) master of Purple Rain is the bottom 2. You see how it has headroom? It can breathe.



Brickwalled simply means YOU WILL HEAR EVERYTHING LOUD even when you don't have it turned up - because everything is turned way up and then super copmpressed - and when you do turn it up, it will sound like shit and you won't actually be able to use all of the volume of your system because it will be distorted ie TOO LOUD.

CBS original CD issues from vinyl masters 1986
Virgin remastered resissues 1994
UMe destruction of entire 1971-1997 catalouge (there's no way ABB could've been made any louder) 2009

Thank you!

You're welcome!

Possibly, your iTunes version of Love You Live is from the Virgin remasters. They were available for download until around 2010. Then they were replaced by the current remasters (aka the 2009 remasters or Universal remasters).

On streaming websites you'll find only the 2009 remasters, which is really a shame for the reasons given above. This means also a whole new generation is discovering the Stones from the worst sounding remaster.

If you want the best sound on CD for the Stones back catalog, you'll have to look for the out of print Virgin CD's.

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kowalski
Possibly, your iTunes version of Love You Live is from the Virgin remasters. They were available for download until around 2010. Then they were replaced by the current remasters (aka the 2009 remasters or Universal remasters).

On streaming websites you'll find only the 2009 remasters, which is really a shame for the reasons given above. This means also a whole new generation is discovering the Stones from the worst sounding remaster.

If you want the best sound on CD for the Stones back catalog, you'll have to look for the out of print Virgin CD's.

I started thinking about that, it would matter when 35love got LYL on iTunes.

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kowalski
Possibly, your iTunes version of Love You Live is from the Virgin remasters. They were available for download until around 2010. Then they were replaced by the current remasters (aka the 2009 remasters or Universal remasters).

On streaming websites you'll find only the 2009 remasters, which is really a shame for the reasons given above. This means also a whole new generation is discovering the Stones from the worst sounding remaster.

If you want the best sound on CD for the Stones back catalog, you'll have to look for the out of print Virgin CD's.

Yes, the Virgins are the best for latter day Stones CDs. My Virgin 'Exile' was my favorite until I got Exile on Blu Ray audio. Unfortunately very little is available in that format.

" Digitally Disastered" is a term I coined long ago .

It sums up most of them.

Even the half speed Abbey Road work is too loud and compressed.

There's no real dynamic range or Light & shade on any of them.


I'm not saying they couldn't be better done, with the right ears & attitude. [digital today is potentially very good ]..

...but give me the original vinyl pressings almost every time if you want to know what the stuff was supposed to sound like.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-25 09:59 by Spud.

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24FPS

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kowalski
Possibly, your iTunes version of Love You Live is from the Virgin remasters. They were available for download until around 2010. Then they were replaced by the current remasters (aka the 2009 remasters or Universal remasters).

On streaming websites you'll find only the 2009 remasters, which is really a shame for the reasons given above. This means also a whole new generation is discovering the Stones from the worst sounding remaster.

If you want the best sound on CD for the Stones back catalog, you'll have to look for the out of print Virgin CD's.

Yes, the Virgins are the best for latter day Stones CDs. My Virgin 'Exile' was my favorite until I got Exile on Blu Ray audio. Unfortunately very little is available in that format.

Check out the first Abbey Road half-speed remaster, too, 24FPS. It's a new experience (and it's NOT brickwalled).

To this day my favourite version of Exile is a late 70s German "Electrola" pressing on vinyl.

By the way you can still find original pressings or 70's reissues in good conditions for a price ranging between 5~15€.

Look in the dictionary under Brickwall and you'll see a pic of Bigger Bang! Blue and Lonesome is bad, too. Oasis albums are also bad.

‘This means also a whole new generation is discovering the Stones from the worst sounding remaster.’
Kowalski


I had the same thought: Get a pair of ears on what your new possible 1st time customers are hearing, discluding utube from this conversation which the FREE category is in itself an island.

But between ITUNES and SPOTIFY
there is a marked difference, to me, certainly now that I’m aware of it.

I own the song from iTunes
‘A little less conversation’ Elvis 1972 (studio track)
If I go to Spotify,
same song, obviously same ear buds, phone, title track,
They sound noticeably different! This time Spotify has depth -


Whoever hooks in the listener wins, right?
Important.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-28 04:09 by 35love.

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35love
‘This means also a whole new generation is discovering the Stones from the worst sounding remaster.’
Kowalski


I had the same thought: Get a pair of ears on what your new possible 1st time customers are hearing, discluding utube from this conversation which the FREE category is in itself an island.

But between ITUNES and SPOTIFY
there is a marked difference, to me, certainly now that I’m aware of it.

I own the song from iTunes
‘A little less conversation’ Elvis 1972 (studio track)
If I go to Spotify,
same song, obviously same ear buds, phone, title track,
They sound noticeably different! This time Spotify has depth -


Whoever hooks in the listener wins, right?
Important.

You'll have to check out which version (original master, a remaster, a remaster II etc) you're listening to before you compare.

Actually, everything is determined by your ears, your system and environment.
If you listen to the music in the controlled and known environment - you'll probably will go with LP's or Virgin CD Remaster. Though, I prefer CBS CD's for the mid- and end of the 70's.
If you are traveling in a car or in a train and listening to the music in headphones - resent 2009 remaster is the one to choose .

Yep,

The issue is very often what type of listener and playback equipment is the mastering optimised for.

The problem for many Hi Fi orientated listeners in the digital age is that most material today is optimised for play back on portable devices with a relatively limited dynamic range...hence all the "Brick Walling"

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ironbelly
Actually, everything is determined by your ears, your system and environment.
If you listen to the music in the controlled and known environment - you'll probably will go with LP's or Virgin CD Remaster. Though, I prefer CBS CD's for the mid- and end of the 70's.
If you are traveling in a car or in a train and listening to the music in headphones - resent 2009 remaster is the one to choose .

disagree. 2009 ‘remaster’ does not sound better thru ear buds/ headphones/ on the move.
Which by the way, let’s be real:
Most are listening thru phones.

At home : Listening to music on my stereo when I can. In the car mostly radio.

Listening to youtube and the mp3's and flac's on the pc. With good active speakers. S
Still the sound is miles better on the stereo.

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35love

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ironbelly
Actually, everything is determined by your ears, your system and environment.
If you listen to the music in the controlled and known environment - you'll probably will go with LP's or Virgin CD Remaster. Though, I prefer CBS CD's for the mid- and end of the 70's.
If you are traveling in a car or in a train and listening to the music in headphones - resent 2009 remaster is the one to choose .

disagree. 2009 ‘remaster’ does not sound better thru ear buds/ headphones/ on the move.
Which by the way, let’s be real:
Most are listening thru phones.

Agree. 2009 remaster does not sound good in any environment and on any equipment. It makes your ears bleed. I listen to it only during flights or in the train when it is problematic to hear anything anyway . For everything else I have CBS and Virgin (and old West German London for Decca era)

I got the 2009 UMvomit remaster of SOME GIRLS because I wanted only disc 2.

I uploaded it to my media player. IMMEDIATELY I could tell a difference through my crap speakers compared to the Virgin Records reissue.

Headphones - disaster.

I made an edit on CD for my truck and my wife's car - DISASTER. Unlistenable.


When you take a piece of shit and put it anywhere, it's a piece of shit.

That's UMe and The Rolling Stones.


Virgin reissues rule. Apparently always will.

I bought the 2cd version of Sticky Fingers a few years back just to have the 2nd CD. Looking forward to hear it I cranked it up only to quicky turn it down. After a few minutes I had to turn it more down and after 4 songs I started to get a headache and couldn't listen to it anymore.

The 2LP version sounds different and is the one to get. Forget about the CD

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GeorgV
I bought the 2cd version of Sticky Fingers a few years back just to have the 2nd CD. Looking forward to hear it I cranked it up only to quicky turn it down. After a few minutes I had to turn it more down and after 4 songs I started to get a headache and couldn't listen to it anymore.

The 2LP version sounds different and is the one to get. Forget about the CD

No MR on the LP-version, though...

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DandelionPowderman

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GeorgV
I bought the 2cd version of Sticky Fingers a few years back just to have the 2nd CD. Looking forward to hear it I cranked it up only to quicky turn it down. After a few minutes I had to turn it more down and after 4 songs I started to get a headache and couldn't listen to it anymore.

The 2LP version sounds different and is the one to get. Forget about the CD

No MR on the LP-version, though...

Maybe I have to force myself to listen to this track on the CD then...
Or dig out one of the bootlegs again