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Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: October 4, 2018 15:19

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I was never a big Kiss fan. Even in a decadent self immolation sense I can not quite take Gene Simmons, and his sock-wearing deflowering of groupies.
The music was never great. Not trashy, not speedy, not sappy. Ace was ace. Especially as time wore on, and Paul?Gene took over and turned it into a corporation, I think any real rock infusion had to help. Plus he can play.
Those [players with actual chops like Kulick only contributed to the sterile corporate output.
On drums Peter Criss was always weak; Eric Carr was the one replacement player who should have been the one. truly a sad story how he passed so early.
I watched a lot of clips on Tube of Stanley reading his auto bio, and actually learned a bit about the band etc. But his constant beat-down of Ace and Peter got on my nerves. Then I saw some Ace clips, other side of the coin. Bands...what do you know.

OPS meant to say that the Who must have the record for most Goodbye Tours.

I think the Who started the trend of "farewell tours". Maybe the Doobie Brothers. Both around 1982 as I attended both. They have both been back around several times.

I will listen to the music but won't get fooled again. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: IrelandCalling4 ()
Date: October 4, 2018 20:06

Paul trashes everyone in his bio, the grinding down of Ace and Peter is incessant. The only person who seems to survive his wrath is Tommy Thayer. It is tiresome reading and the blame for his/their woes is laid at the feet of everyone except for him mostly. Gene unsurprisingly is trashed at every available opportunity. I've never read a more mean spirited rock bio.

Kiss have a lot of great songs; a run of classic albums they've never had but every album definitely had highlights. When seeing setlists from the earlier and later 90s for example it hits you how many great rock songs they did actually write.

As a live act they were super entertaining in every era of their history. The last decade has been very hit and miss though; slower tempos, Gene more ridiculous than usual, and Pauls voice.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 4, 2018 20:09

Quote
IrelandCalling4
Paul trashes everyone in his bio, the grinding down of Ace and Peter is incessant. The only person who seems to survive his wrath is Tommy Thayer. It is tiresome reading and the blame for his/their woes is laid at the feet of everyone except for him mostly. Gene unsurprisingly is trashed at every available opportunity. I've never read a more mean spirited rock bio.

Kiss have a lot of great songs; a run of classic albums they've never had but every album definitely had highlights. When seeing setlists from the earlier and later 90s for example it hits you how many great rock songs they did actually write.

As a live act they were super entertaining in every era of their history. The last decade has been very hit and miss though; slower tempos, Gene more ridiculous than usual, and Pauls voice.
Paul might be an even bigger prick than Gene (the Trump of the rock world), and I thought that would be impossible to pull off.

Two narcissists who deserve each other.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: October 4, 2018 20:19

Paul is 100% the biggest @#$%& in the band. He always has been and its mainly, as you say, because he's mean spirited. Gene is Trump-esque, in that I actually don't think he means to offend many times. He just says things and they come out wrong. I'm not defending him or anything, Gene is an egomaniacal insane person. But I think he's more bluster than anything else. He's not actually out to offend or be mean, but more boast himself and be an @#$%&.

Paul on the other hand is an incredibly vindictive person and has been for decades. There's countless examples of it on Youtube. You get on Paul's bad side and he butt @#$%& you every day for the rest of your life. You're right, he and Gene really do deserve each other. Paul's book is everything Ireland said, and then what's funny is not once is the blame EVER laid on him. Listen, I always try to pawn stuff off on other people, but many times I do know and admit "that was my bad". For Paul, everything is someone else's fault. Its actually quite sad.

Like I said earlier, they did have a run of classic albums. Their first 3 are great but admittedly Alive is much better and basically THE representation of those albums you need. But the following 3 albums in a row (Destroyer, Rock And Roll Over, and Love Gun) are all classic albums front to back. I'm not saying its Who's Next or something, but you like one thing, you like it all. They are great records. They were fantastic through the 70s, really stumbled and were embarrassing in the 80s, and then did some ok stuff in the 90s. And you can't take their live shows away from them which, until their Farewell tour in 2000, were always top notch. Since then, they've coasted and really shit a lot on their own legacy, which was always underrated. But their destroying of it themselves only validated outsiders that they actually were never anything special. They were, and their Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame ceremony shows that. Its sad that of almost any band they've decided to really ruin everything that was once so great about them. And that most of the members, especially the top two, are some of the worst people you could ever hope to become.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 4, 2018 20:34

I've listened to a few podcasts where Gene isn't in used car salesman mode and discussed his approach to songwriting and bass playing, and it was pretty fascinating. He studied the Beatles closely and really learned how to create memorable hooks, choruses and melodic bass lines, which you can really hear in their early work.

I do admire his work ethic and business acumen, but that's about it. Whatever his real personality is, the fact that he consciously chooses THAT persona to display to he world makes me dislike him.

I always thought Paul was the cooler head, but the clips I've read out of his autobiography put that to rest. He's a nasty, insecure piece of work.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: October 4, 2018 20:42

Gene is actually a great bass player and for some reason he himself is usually the one who downplays that. Again, he's no Paul, but if you listen to the bass on those albums its fantastic. For all the stuff he boasts about, I've never heard him praise his own bass playing, and in fact actively seems to say "yeah, I'm not a great musician" which is very unlike him.

KI$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (c wut i did there?)
Posted by: FrogSugar ()
Date: October 4, 2018 20:49

Paul was only born with one ear, only hears in one, and had a huge inferiority complex growing up. Couple that with crazy success and the result is that he can be quite a bitch to people and comes across as quite the party pooper!

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Date: October 4, 2018 21:51

Quote
keefriff99
I've listened to a few podcasts where Gene isn't in used car salesman mode and discussed his approach to songwriting and bass playing, and it was pretty fascinating. He studied the Beatles closely and really learned how to create memorable hooks, choruses and melodic bass lines, which you can really hear in their early work.

I do admire his work ethic and business acumen, but that's about it. Whatever his real personality is, the fact that he consciously chooses THAT persona to display to he world makes me dislike him.

I always thought Paul was the cooler head, but the clips I've read out of his
autobiography put that to rest. He's a nasty, insecure piece of work.


gene actually donates to a lot of charities every year and usually asks for no recognition at all from the charity

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: Ronnierocks ()
Date: October 12, 2018 09:12

1996 was a great year for two bands playing full reunion tours.
Sex Pistols with all four original members.
KISS with all four original members.
I saw a few shows from each band and both were awesome.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: October 12, 2018 13:47

Quote
Ronnierocks
1996 was a great year for two bands playing full reunion tours.
Sex Pistols with all four original members.
KISS with all four original members.
I saw a few shows from each band and both were awesome.
Sid Vicious the bassist died of a drug overdose in a hotel room in Chelsa way back in the late 70's

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: Ronnierocks ()
Date: October 12, 2018 13:48

Sid Vicious was not the original bass player.
It was Glen Matlock.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: October 12, 2018 14:35

And if I'm not mistaken Glen Matlock had an important part of the song writing and recording. Also they toured again in 2008 thankfully. After missing them since the 70s I got to see them in Lokersee Fest. I was floored by Steve Jones and Johnny was really Rotten in a good way. Also KISS were killer strong on this year's tour.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: October 12, 2018 14:57

Glenn wrote most of the songs with the Sex Pistols and played on nearly every song on that one album of theirs. Sid Vicious, for all he's remembered for, was really not present with the band all that much when they were active.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Date: October 12, 2018 15:00

Quote
RollingFreak
Glenn wrote most of the songs with the Sex Pistols and played on nearly every song on that one album of theirs. Sid Vicious, for all he's remembered for, was really not present with the band all that much when they were active.

Well, he did the tours + the recordings after their debut, didn't he? smiling smiley

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: October 12, 2018 15:15

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
RollingFreak
Glenn wrote most of the songs with the Sex Pistols and played on nearly every song on that one album of theirs. Sid Vicious, for all he's remembered for, was really not present with the band all that much when they were active.

Well, he did the tours + the recordings after their debut, didn't he? smiling smiley

The Pistols were essentially active from 75-78 in their heyday. Sid joined in roughly February of 77, and the band ended in January of 1978. So he was there for a little less than a year and in that timespan was NOT invited to record on their only album which was recorded in mid 77. So yeah, he did some stuff for them like touring and a song here and there, but for how much he is remembered by people its shocking how little he actually contributed or did with the band. Not trying to diminish him in any way, I just always find that funny.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 12, 2018 15:23

Quote
RollingFreak
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
RollingFreak
Glenn wrote most of the songs with the Sex Pistols and played on nearly every song on that one album of theirs. Sid Vicious, for all he's remembered for, was really not present with the band all that much when they were active.

Well, he did the tours + the recordings after their debut, didn't he? smiling smiley

The Pistols were essentially active from 75-78 in their heyday. Sid joined in roughly February of 77, and the band ended in January of 1978. So he was there for a little less than a year and in that timespan was NOT invited to record on their only album which was recorded in mid 77. So yeah, he did some stuff for them like touring and a song here and there, but for how much he is remembered by people its shocking how little he actually contributed or did with the band. Not trying to diminish him in any way, I just always find that funny.
He could barely play bass, correct? He's always seemed like a weird cult figure to me...maybe a slightly less grotesque version of GG Allin.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Date: October 12, 2018 15:52

Quote
RollingFreak
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
RollingFreak
Glenn wrote most of the songs with the Sex Pistols and played on nearly every song on that one album of theirs. Sid Vicious, for all he's remembered for, was really not present with the band all that much when they were active.

Well, he did the tours + the recordings after their debut, didn't he? smiling smiley

The Pistols were essentially active from 75-78 in their heyday. Sid joined in roughly February of 77, and the band ended in January of 1978. So he was there for a little less than a year and in that timespan was NOT invited to record on their only album which was recorded in mid 77. So yeah, he did some stuff for them like touring and a song here and there, but for how much he is remembered by people its shocking how little he actually contributed or did with the band. Not trying to diminish him in any way, I just always find that funny.

Yeah, it is funny. But at the same time, he joined right when they really broke through to the masses. Somehow, he became Keith x 10 for the Pistols smiling smiley

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Date: October 19, 2018 15:53

ACE wants back in

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 19, 2018 16:06

Ace just fired his entire band (including his long-time guitarist Richie Scarlet whose wife just died of ALS) and hired Gene's solo band instead.

Ace is a flake and a self-centered prick.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 19, 2018 18:51

Paul Stanley promising to expand their set from 16 to 25 songs:

[www.blabbermouth.net]

I'm sure his voice is going to hold up WONDERFULLY with all that added strain.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: October 19, 2018 19:16

Quote
keefriff99
Ace just fired his entire band (including his long-time guitarist Richie Scarlet whose wife just died of ALS) and hired Gene's solo band instead.

Ace is a flake and a self-centered prick.

It sucks. I love Ace, to me he is what made KISS great. Without that guitar sound that is uniquely his, they aren't anything spectacular. He is what sets them apart. I love all the other guys too but in the end, without his guitar playing, KISS just isn't.

Having said that, you have to be a very jaded fan to not see Ace is, unfortunately, an @#$%&. And listen, he's human, a lot of us are like that, and too often he was downplayed by Gene and Paul that its then normal to stick up for Ace. But he's not the saint he's painted out to be. I love that he has his good times and fun, his laugh is infectious, he genuinely seems like a great guy to hang with. But in the end, he is as slimey as the rest of them. Never forget he went the entire reunion tour getting paid more than Peter Criss, because he demanded it, all the while giving Peter the impression they were equal. Peter was crushed, as he rightfully should have been, it was a massive dick move on Ace's part.

Later on, Ace says KISS shouldn't use his design and and dress a guy up like him and that its wrong. And he's totally right. Someone like Eddie Trunk will remind him that Ace played in the band while Eric Singer dressed as Peter. Ace's response? "Well yeah, that was a little different. the drummer is hidden, Eric is great, I didn't feel weird about that." Because in the end, its all about Ace. He plays that woe is me character when in the end he's looking out for himself, while trying to seem diplomatic about everyone. And I get it, thats business but its sad. You can't really only side with Ace cause he's wrong about a lot of things, this latest thing being his firing of his longtime band which, even though he explained it, was cruel, especially for Ritchie. These guys stuck by you when you were in the true DUMPS. And then he treats them like trash. Unfortunately, if you're not blind to it, its very Ace behavior.

He's a strange man to idolize. A lot to love, but as scummy as the rest even though he tries to play off that he isn't. Again, doesn't make me love him less, but I just don't think that should be forgotten. Gene and Paul deserve the trash they get hurled, but Ace isn't blameless. Peter isn't either but of the 4 definitely seems like the most "woe is me" at least with an actual reason. But listen, bands are strange...

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 19, 2018 19:26

Yeah, I always thought Ace was just this fun-loving scamp who was under the thumb of joyless taskmasters Gene and Paul, but he's definitely got a nasty, narcissistic streak the more I learn about him.

Here's how he described firing Richie Scarlet to Eddie Trunk:

"Chris took it really well. He's been playing with the [HOLLYWOOD] VAMPIRES, he told me he was doing solo shows with Joe Perry, and he's one of the most sought-after bass players in Los Angeles. So Chris took it really well. Scotty didn't take it very well. And Richie didn't take it well, because his wife had just passed away [after battling ALS for many years]."

He continued: "It was a nightmare, because I kept procrastinating, because I said, 'How can I call Richie and let him know I'm using another band when his wife is on her deathbed?' And it was tearing me apart. Finally I just said, 'I've gotta man up.' So I called him and I told him briefly why and… and he hung up on me. [Laughs] He goes, 'I can't believe this shit,' and he hung up on me. So, two days later, I called him back in the evening, and I said, 'Rich…' He apologized for hanging up on me. I've known Richie forever. So we healed. He told me he loved me like a brother; I told him the same. I said, 'Tell me what I can do for you, because I know you were expecting the money from the cruise.' So I wired some money into his account to help pay for Joann's funeral. She was a wonderful lady."

Frehley went on to defend the fact that he fired Scarlet at a particularly vulnerable time in Richie's life, explaining: "Bad timing is bad timing, but business decisions really don't… can't… with personal life, it never jells. It's never the right time, in a lot of cases."



I mean, there's a LITTLE acknowledgement of Richie dealing with his wife, but he sounds way less torn up about it than he should.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: October 19, 2018 19:54

Oh there's no two ways about it. He was a dick and Eddie Trunk, who I really like and know is a good friend of Ace's, gave him the easy out. He let him address it, didn't hammer him about how ridiculously cruel that was, and moved on. But yeah, its pretty despicable what Ace did and its one of the more blatant @#$%& things I've heard of him doing in awhile (most of that other stuff I mentioned was like 20 years ago). To me the nail in the coffin is the classic denial. "He apologized for hanging up on me." What?!!! You called to fire a man who has stuck with you for 30 years and who's wife just tragically died and he apologized to you?!! Its that kind of wording thats key to seeing a dick for who they really are.

Again, unfairly, I won't hold it against Ace. But I no longer pretend he's blameless. Its sad the things you learn as time goes on. You kinda wish you hadn't. But I remember the more I learned about him, the more I realized "oh, THATS why you were in KISS." They were all the same. It ends up making perfect sense why he'd stick around or even be there in the first place. They were all dicks, but the shared attitude is what got them to where they are.

Something like Slash in Guns N Roses is a similar thing. I spent years defending people who called him Cash and a whore and spineless, and then he goes right back to GNR and shows that he kinda is all those things. Its a sad reality, and again its fine, they are people and didn't ask to be role models. But its sad when you find out about the truth you thought you knew from these guys.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 19, 2018 21:46

In many cases it's best to just let the music do the talking, and looks like that might be the case for fans of Ace Frehley and Kiss (neither of which I am).
Heard him interviewed on Jonesy's jukebox radio show a while back, and nothing outstanding that I remember other than he had a decent sense of humor, and they jammed on a crappy song together in the studio.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Date: October 20, 2018 09:59

Quote
keefriff99
Paul Stanley promising to expand their set from 16 to 25 songs:

[www.blabbermouth.net]

I'm sure his voice is going to hold up WONDERFULLY with all that added strain.

There are three other singers in the band smiling smiley

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 20, 2018 15:46

Kiss is the most underrated and among fans overrated and generally misunderstood band ever and Gene is the most misunderstood star ever. I think he’s basically a generous big brother/mum trying his best to hide that fact except he can’t because he has tourettes.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 20, 2018 18:57

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
keefriff99
Paul Stanley promising to expand their set from 16 to 25 songs:

[www.blabbermouth.net]

I'm sure his voice is going to hold up WONDERFULLY with all that added strain.

There are three other singers in the band smiling smiley
Yes but it's almost a certainty that Paul will be lead singer on at least 3-4 of those additional songs (if not more), so either way, it's going to add stress to his already taxed voice.

Re: OT: KISS announce (another) farewell tour
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: October 20, 2018 19:58

Sad because most of their best songs are Paul vocals. So I'd love to hear them add some deep cuts, especially if Ace is coming back, but not if Paul is gonna sound terrible.

Gonna be interesting how the tour proceeds. As Eddie Trunk has mentioned, he can't think of a band thats ever announced a farewell tour and then not had any dates for this amount of time. Its clearly a gauging interest type of thing. I think they were hoping with a farewell they wouldn't have to pull out as many tricks, but it seems certain they'll at least need Ace. The announcement kinda fell flat. And Paul for the longest time has said "never the original guys" and finally switched over to saying "never say never". So if they need him or Peter to sell the tour they'll get him. Peter 100% cannot tour, maybe guest although I question even that. 1 that he'd do it or want the travel or 2 that he even still can. Ace seems ready to join if needed, not really begging but also very clearly game. I can't imagine him just guesting, or how that would work if Tommy is wearing Ace's makeup, but I assume if they give Ace the right fee he'll do whatever they want. He likes to be "for the people" but give him what he wants and he seems like he'll play along with whatever.

There's nothing that could bring me back. The only thing I'd want to see is original 4 and they can't play to the level they should so that'll never happen, but it'll be interesting what they do. I'd also be interested if everyone came back. Bruce Kulick, Vinnie Vincent and they truly did a farewell in a proper way to all eras. But 1 that'll never happen and 2 Paul still sounds terrible so even if it was all done right, that would be painful to hear.

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