Whilst looking through the older 'NEWS' Links I came across this for June 2nd 1999

June 2: New CD releases delayed
There were supposed to be a couple of different versions of the Memory Motel single out on CD, and also the Memory Hotel 2CD album, with recent outtakes. The singles have been cancelled, and the outtakes album may have been delayed until June/July. This unconfirmed information will be checked out, and you will be told - but so far it seems that no releases have been done yet by Virgin.

It Would be interesting to know what the track listing would have been . I assume 'recent outtakes' would have been from B2B.Anyone know or remember anything about the proposed 2 CD release? Apologies if this has been discussed for some reason I am unable to do a 'Search' this morning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-11 11:55 by Tonstone.

Maybe it had something to do with No Security album. idk (I don't know)

Here's a retake of Memory Motel Jagger did for a movie:

HARRY DEAN STANTON MEMORY MOTEL BEYOND THE GROOVE
[www.youtube.com]

BEYOND THE GROOVE was actually an odd short-lived TV series. A 30 minute format. Only 6 episodes were produced. It was really just a series of music videos strung loosely together by a narrative of David Rappaport taking a road trip. The version of "Memory Motel" used had been cut for PRIMITIVE COOL. A version of "Fool To Cry" was also recorded but has never surfaced.

As for MEMORY HOTEL, a source at Virgin had said it was a planned two-part Japanese CD-single for "Memory Motel." The two discs would have been issued separately as CD singles each with "Memory Motel" plus 3 bonus tracks. One of the six bonus tracks was to have been the outtake, "Ever Changing World." That said, Don Was had discussed doing a proper 2-CD set of outtakes from BRIDGES TO BABYLON, VOODOO LOUNGE, and even a bit of STEEL WHEELS. It would have also included some alternate takes such as a straight bluesy version of "Might As Well Get Juiced" without The Dust Brothers' fingerprints on it. Additional overdubs were required to finish some of the material. Allegedly, Keith was up for it, but Mick wasn't. Don has suggested returning to the project to Universal several times over the last few years.

Mind you, others will dismiss all I have said as completely wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-12 01:11 by Rocky Dijon.

Why would people dismiss it, Rocky?

It happened before here which I understand since my news isn't quite what Bjornulf heard and he is certainly more connected. My source was a guy at TransWorld Entertainment Corporation where I used to work in the 1990s. They owned music and video retail chains in the States.

I was told the MEMORY HOTEL title was a mistake by EMI that it was supposed to be MEMORY MOTEL like the song and the title only referred to the proposed 2-part CD single which would have included at least one more BABYLON non-LP B-side along with other tracks which were never disclosed to me.

He said the singles release was conflated with the proposed 2-CD outtakes and alternate versions compilation which likely would have been titled one of the unused album titles floating around at the time (BLESSED POISON was the one I recall but there was another) along with using some alternate art from Mark Norton I believe. Allegedly, Virgin/EMI liked the idea of a new album to wrap up the deal that could be done quickly and relatively cheaply using what was in the can (like TATTOO YOU).

Supposedly, Keith had very strong relations with Phil Quaterarro (spelling might be wrong) and his ex-wife who were both Virgin execs (I could be thinking of someone else, but it was a husband and ex-wife) and they were worked up over Keith's enthusiasm that some of the best material and stronger versions were left in the can. Don Was apparently agreed with Keith that this was a viable project. Mick thought it was an awful idea and didn't want to go back to serving leftovers.

Bear in mind, these conversations started in 1998 and ended early 2000 when I was told the project was officially dead. It wasn't really anything more than some tapes that Don short-listed. No work was done by anyone, though Keith and Ronnie talked about going into the studio while on the road. The idea was to release it between legs in Summer 1999 -- later moved to Christmas and then the idea was dropped entirely after the European tour.

Supposedly, millennium shows were discussed with Cohl and then dropped and that was part of the whole thing falling through with Virgin. The story I was told was that Keith was the hold-out who didn't want to do the millennium shows. I know that sounds unlikely. Apparently, folks around Keith (no one said Jane or Patti by name, I was only told it was friends and his support people) were against the idea of him going back on the road believing it wouldn't be healthy for him. Lots of this was gossip and speculation and some of it came from Blues Traveler's camp of all places.

I had left the company in late 1995 and was just hanging on to a few contacts for info trying to piece things together. I could give the name of my TWEC source but one of them (they were brothers) is still in the industry. Please understand these are retail guys who were talking to guys in distribution and marketing and promo people (which is where the Blues Traveler source came in). This is the most I've ever told about this for obvious reasons of not wanting anyone in trouble or to look stupid if someone who truly knows what went on looked in and said I was fed nothing but a load of rubbish. That could be the case. When you're in music or video retail at an executive level, the obvious thing all your label or studio contacts do is to exaggerate how "in the know" they are about the product that interests you most.

I neglected to mention that Vigotone (the boot label) played a role in this. First, their sets were part of the impetus for proposing the release of an official 2-disc compilation and then the same bootleg releases were used as partial justification for why they shouldn't bother releasing the material. Probably worth noting that at this time, indie stores shared mall space with major retailers and would stock boots as imports whereas the major retailers could not carry them since they dealt directly with the labels and not through a third-party distributor. The success of Vigotone and Scorpio in particular was something that had a big impact on both labels and retailers who wanted to compete with the business indie stores were getting out of high-priced import CDs. This was a few years after Swingin' Pig had been taken to court.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-12 04:21 by Rocky Dijon.

Sounds like the From The Vault concept had been brewing for some time...

It'd be great to have some studio releases in the series as well, I think.

BTW, since I'm digging up old memories. This was the same time - late 1999/early 2000 that I kept hearing Mick was writing another album but hadn't decided if it was going to be a Stones album or solo album. Cohl was allegedly pushing for a tour in 2001 which would have made it a Stones album had his idea worked. At the time, I didn't understand how Mick (as opposed to Mick and Keith) could be writing a Stones album.

It's also worth noting that Virgin/EMI floated a box set of outtakes and a box set of unreleased concert recordings (not complete shows) prior to FORTY LICKS. There would have been a couple new studio tracks regardless. From that perspective, what they've done at Universal/Polydor has just been to resurrect this idea and turn it into the path forward for releases. I imagine Dylan's archival releases were a major influence. Funny how it all blurs together.

The other sources I used to have were a recording engineer in New York (he never worked with the Stones. He was an assistant engineer on a few Billy Joel sessions and that was probably his career highlight along with The Ramones). He used to share bits and pieces or stories he heard. He knew both Marlon and Charley Drayton. I'm still friends with his cousin (how I knew him), but he's no longer in the picture. I did get to spend an evening with him and Billy Joel who talked about how the Stones and Roger Daltrey treated him like crap when he went to see the Stones at JFK in 1981.

The last source was Jimmy Rip. We have a mutual friend (not really Stones-related, though she knows Mick). He was friendly to me via email for a bit but then got pissed at me so there were only a handful of stories from him.

I used to be friendly enough with Bill German but I never asked him anything for the obvious reason. I really like Bill and didn't want to give him a reason to not like me. That's the extent of my brushes with greatness where the Stones are concerned.

Only other one I can think of was being told that the scene with the glow-in-the-dark condom in the 1989 movie SKIN DEEP was based on Mick. He wasn't the source of the condom anecdote, but he was the basis of the Cockney guitarist Rick in the film because of how Mick treated Denise Crosby (Bing's granddaughter) and several other women on the set of the music video for "Throwaway" many years ago. Of course, that's just one person's perspective. I'm sure Mick saw it differently.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-12 04:59 by Rocky Dijon.

Thanks for the info! I was always so excited for that 2cd set!!!!

Thank you very much for taking the time with your informative replies Rocky.

Thanks for sharing your memories and thoughts, good stuff ! Not that it changes to the potential "Memory Hotel/Motel" release(s) anything but I think "Ever Changing World" was mentioned pretty quickly after B2B was released by BV as a potential Japanese extra track/flipside. Karnbach also mentioned it in his book released in the fall of 1997 along with quite a few other B2B outtakes.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Yeah, I am curious what happened to it. I wondered if we would have heard things like "Thief in the Night" with Mick on lead vocals or "You Don't Have To Mean It" done Tex-Mex style. The problem of course is anyone who works with them describes these lost tracks as "amazing." It's hard to know what is just being star-struck or a yes-man and what truly was a gem worth uncovering. Overall, I tend to agree with Mick and feel they developed their best material and what was relegated to B-sides or left to languish in the vaults was not as strong.

I believe "Ever Changing World" was one of the first tracks Don Was mentioned in an L.A. Times interview around July 1997. If memory serves, most or all of the unreleased tracks James Karnbach and Nico list come from the extensive Rob Fraboni interview with Stones People Magazine at that time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-12 16:05 by Rocky Dijon.

Thanks for a great story

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Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I am curious what happened to it. I wondered if we would have heard things like "Thief in the Night" with Mick on lead vocals or "You Don't Have To Mean It" done Tex-Mex style. The problem of course is anyone who works with them describes these lost tracks as "amazing." It's hard to know what is just being star-struck or a yes-man and what truly was a gem worth uncovering. Overall, I tend to agree with Mick and feel they developed their best material and what was relegated to B-sides or left to languish in the vaults was not as strong.

I believe "Ever Changing World" was one of the first tracks Don Was mentioned in an L.A. Times interview around July 1997. If memory serves, most or all of the unreleased tracks James Karnbach and Nico list come from the extensive Rob Fraboni interview with Stones People Magazine at that time.

What strikes me is that it should have been two CDs full of "recent" outtakes, some even going back to Steel Wheels. I simply cannot see, even by stretching my imagination as far as possible, even including Steel Wheels, a wealth of finished or nearly finished material that could fill two CDs from this period in terms of unreleased songs (originals or covers). Of course, there are some obvious exceptions like "Your Precious Love", "Ever-Changing World", the fabled superior "raw" Might As Well Get Juiced, but given the Stones working method in the time period in question (trying out a lot of ideas, but working further only on stuff that more or less likely will end up on the album or at least as a single b-side), most anything that fell wayside was more or less in a state that would require substantially more than just some very few finishing touches, give or take some interesting "work-in progess"-takes or mixes of released songs (like the long version of The Storm or Love Is Strong with Keith lead vocals and the like. All probably enough for one CD, but two?

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retired_dog

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Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I am curious what happened to it. I wondered if we would have heard things like "Thief in the Night" with Mick on lead vocals or "You Don't Have To Mean It" done Tex-Mex style. The problem of course is anyone who works with them describes these lost tracks as "amazing." It's hard to know what is just being star-struck or a yes-man and what truly was a gem worth uncovering. Overall, I tend to agree with Mick and feel they developed their best material and what was relegated to B-sides or left to languish in the vaults was not as strong.

I believe "Ever Changing World" was one of the first tracks Don Was mentioned in an L.A. Times interview around July 1997. If memory serves, most or all of the unreleased tracks James Karnbach and Nico list come from the extensive Rob Fraboni interview with Stones People Magazine at that time.

What strikes me is that it should have been two CDs full of "recent" outtakes, some even going back to Steel Wheels. I simply cannot see, even by stretching my imagination as far as possible, even including Steel Wheels, a wealth of finished or nearly finished material that could fill two CDs from this period in terms of unreleased songs (originals or covers). Of course, there are some obvious exceptions like "Your Precious Love", "Ever-Changing World", the fabled superior "raw" Might As Well Get Juiced, but given the Stones working method in the time period in question (trying out a lot of ideas, but working further only on stuff that more or less likely will end up on the album or at least as a single b-side), most anything that fell wayside was more or less in a state that would require substantially more than just some very few finishing touches, give or take some interesting "work-in progess"-takes or mixes of released songs (like the long version of The Storm or Love Is Strong with Keith lead vocals and the like. All probably enough for one CD, but two?

What do we know? Not much! For all we know there might be a great bunch of great new songs [there is!] and surprising alternate versions. In fact I think there is a wealth of great material.

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barbabang

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retired_dog

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Rocky Dijon
Yeah, I am curious what happened to it. I wondered if we would have heard things like "Thief in the Night" with Mick on lead vocals or "You Don't Have To Mean It" done Tex-Mex style. The problem of course is anyone who works with them describes these lost tracks as "amazing." It's hard to know what is just being star-struck or a yes-man and what truly was a gem worth uncovering. Overall, I tend to agree with Mick and feel they developed their best material and what was relegated to B-sides or left to languish in the vaults was not as strong.

I believe "Ever Changing World" was one of the first tracks Don Was mentioned in an L.A. Times interview around July 1997. If memory serves, most or all of the unreleased tracks James Karnbach and Nico list come from the extensive Rob Fraboni interview with Stones People Magazine at that time.

What strikes me is that it should have been two CDs full of "recent" outtakes, some even going back to Steel Wheels. I simply cannot see, even by stretching my imagination as far as possible, even including Steel Wheels, a wealth of finished or nearly finished material that could fill two CDs from this period in terms of unreleased songs (originals or covers). Of course, there are some obvious exceptions like "Your Precious Love", "Ever-Changing World", the fabled superior "raw" Might As Well Get Juiced, but given the Stones working method in the time period in question (trying out a lot of ideas, but working further only on stuff that more or less likely will end up on the album or at least as a single b-side), most anything that fell wayside was more or less in a state that would require substantially more than just some very few finishing touches, give or take some interesting "work-in progess"-takes or mixes of released songs (like the long version of The Storm or Love Is Strong with Keith lead vocals and the like. All probably enough for one CD, but two?

What do we know? Not much! For all we know there might be a great bunch of great new songs [there is!] and surprising alternate versions. In fact I think there is a wealth of great material.

For all we know it's highly unlikely that there is "a great bunch of great new songs" from the period in question (1989 to 1997), at least not releasable with very little effort and without much further work like from the archives of Dylan or Springsteen for example. A few interesting alternate versions, ok, yes. Maybe that's the reason why Mick pulled the plug.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-13 03:45 by retired_dog.

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Rocky Dijon
I believe "Ever Changing World" was one of the first tracks Don Was mentioned in an L.A. Times interview around July 1997.

It was actually one of the first tracks I remember reading about (via Rolling Stone magazine). I guess it's fortunate the title never struck me as something I needed to hear ASAP.

Keith's bluesy version of "Might As Well Get Juiced" and "High Or Low" are the other tracks I'm surprised have continued to elude fans for the past 21 years. Sheryl Crow claimed to be re-recording the latter with Keith at one point, but I don't believe her version has ever been released (or played live) either.

Thank for all of the interesting info.

On a different subject. It sure would have been nice to have a live version of Memory Motel without Dave Mathews ruining it.

quote=exilestones]
Thank for all of the interesting info.

On a different subject. It sure would have been nice to have a live version of Memory Motel without Dave Mathews ruining it.[/quote]

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exilestones
Thank for all of the interesting info.

On a different subject. It sure would have been nice to have a live version of Memory Motel without Dave Mathews ruining it.

Oh, absolutely! The NS live version is so beautifully played and performed, but when Dave comes in, it's just GRRRR! for me.

Record Collector No.238 June 1999



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-02 17:43 by Krzysztof.

Considering what did make BRIDGES TO BABYLON that is terrible and what was not finished for VOODOO LOUNGE and some of the horrible tracks that went on it, Mick's idea of what is good and bad is moot: he has no clue.

GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY is a testament to that.

@Krzysztof - thanks for posting that ! I was wondering why Bill was "explaining" since he'd been gone since 1991 (1993 officially) but I suppose he may have been consulted for the SW tracks...oh wait they only mentioned VL and B2B ! Well his comments were general enough I suppose ;-)

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

"Mick doesn't like things that aren't perfect. Keith doesn't mind and the rest of the band don't mind, but that's Mick's paranoia.
He likes things as perfect as he can get them". - Bill Wyman, 1999


That seems to be one of the major problems with the latter era - most all of it is too polished and sterile - Blue and Lonesome being the exception.
Just look at the mostly positive reaction to those recent Licks demos that made the rounds - hasn't been that much excitement in a long time. And Mick's desire for perfection goes back decades -
he used to always dismiss Exile because of the "murky" sound, etc. Can't imagine it sounding better if it had been overproduced/sterilized to death - alot of the charm would have been lost. But of course he softened his stance in interviews around the re-release of the Deluxe edition in 2010.

From GQ magazine, 2010:

GQ: You’ve been quoted more than once over the years as saying this isn’t your favorite Stones record.

MJ: [groaning] All these things come back to haunt me. I think it’s because everyone was saying, "It’s the greatest thing, it’s the greatest thing," so I just felt like, Well, all right. You never want to deny people their favorite album. But I would always just be slightly—I was just being annoying, you know? It’s not really my favorite, it’s your favorite. But who knows? I don’t really have a favorite. There’s a lot of great Rolling Stones albums. Exile is the longest, and it’s got the most songs, so you’ve got more to choose from. There’s lots of songs we’ve done over the years and still do on stage, but others we’ve really never done on stage, too.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Mick's life long striving for perfection surrounding all things re the band has resulted in the near-perfect rock band, the likes of which we won't see again.
Bravo.

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GasLightStreet
Considering what did make BRIDGES TO BABYLON that is terrible and what was not finished for VOODOO LOUNGE and some of the horrible tracks that went on it, Mick's idea of what is good and bad is moot: he has no clue.

GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY is a testament to that.

Not to mention the recent Getta Grip/England Lost and the poor reception the single received.
Even with multiple remixes featuring Skepta, etc. - the sterility and "perfection" made them difficult to listen to.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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GasLightStreet
Considering what did make BRIDGES TO BABYLON that is terrible and what was not finished for VOODOO LOUNGE and some of the horrible tracks that went on it, Mick's idea of what is good and bad is moot: he has no clue.

GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY is a testament to that.

Not to mention the recent Getta Grip/England Lost and the poor reception the single received.
Even with multiple remixes featuring Skepta, etc. - the sterility and "perfection" made them difficult to listen to.

I haven't listened to them since they came out. I can't remember them at all.

If it was such a big deal, why doesn't he release stuff every month since he's so prolific?

Year 2000-2002 ???
Recent outtakes????

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exilestones
Thank for all of the interesting info.

On a different subject. It sure would have been nice to have a live version of Memory Motel without Dave Mathews ruining it.

The version from the San Diego FM broadcast (Feb 3 '98) works for me...can't stand the Mathews version.

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KeithNacho
Year 2000-2002 ???
Recent outtakes????

Ha yeah, I should have said those Licks demos that recently made the rounds vs. recent demos that made the rounds.
But when you think about it, considering they've only had one full album of originals in the last 13+ years, those demos are fairly recent in Stones time.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re Rocky’s story above about “Throwaway,” Denise Crosby is a very solid television director.