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'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: July 9, 2018 18:01

Remembering Meredith Hunter, the Fan Killed at Altamont

An excerpt from the upcoming book ‘Just a Shot Away’ tells the chilling story of a black teenager’s death at the infamous fest – and the toll it took on his family

by Saul Austerlitz


Courtesy of Jay Siegel

[www.rollingstone.com]

--



[www.amazon.com]

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: July 9, 2018 18:11

Amazing that it's still possible to milk this tragic event. It's been some 49 years now since it happened. In the meantime billions of people have died.
I don't think this book is going to clear anything up. But, by all means, if anyone is interested go ahead and buy it. Thanks anyway Johnny for the info.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: oldschool ()
Date: July 10, 2018 18:04

Mine just arrived from Amazon today. Looks like it is written with a focus on Meredith Hunter.

I have always been fascinated with Altamont so looking forward to reading this to see if there is anything new here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-10 18:06 by oldschool.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: July 10, 2018 18:06

From Saul Austerlitz's interview with Amy Shearn of The Rumpus:

The Rumpus: What made you want to write about the disastrous concert at Altamont, which has been written about so many times before?

Saul Austerlitz: Altamont had almost always from the perspective of a participant looking to exculpate themselves, or to point the finger elsewhere, or to render the 1960s in “long strange trip” tie-dye. I started off this project thinking of writing about the Maysles brothers and their transformative effect on American documentary, and then realized I wanted to write about Gimme Shelter in particular, and about the experience of the concert as a whole. I really wanted to combine the experiences of the concertgoers with the performers, and properly place it in the context of its era.

Rumpus: You write that Charlotte Zwerin, editor of Gimme Shelter, was the “the glue that held the Maysles’ work together.” Can you talk a little bit about how the documentary was made, and about why you write that Zwerin was “the true director”?

Austerlitz: Albert Maysles was a brilliant cinematographer, and his brother David was a superlative organizer, thinker, and all-around maestro, but neither of them were editors, and that’s where Charlotte Zwerin came in. Albert was allergic to the editing room, and David was content with overseeing the work, so they needed someone with the ability to transform their occasionally brilliant raw footage into a narrative. Albert and David knew they had captured something remarkable at Altamont, but had no idea how to make it into a film. The footage of Meredith Hunter’s killing was remarkable, but how could you tell the story of someone’s death when it occurred at the very end of what was otherwise a concert film, with no lead-up or foreshadowing?

Zwerin was not only the filmmaker who did the hard work of assembling their footage into a film, she was also the one who realized that, in order for the film to work, they would have to film the Rolling Stones watching the results of their efforts, and comment on what they saw. Without that footage of Mick Jagger and Charlie Watts, which forms the backbone of the film, it is hard to imagine Gimme Shelter having the emotional heft that it does. In that sense, this is truly Zwerin’s film, and I give the Maysles brothers credit for granting her the directing credit she very much deserved.

Full interview - [therumpus.net]

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: July 11, 2018 17:20

Rolling Stones, Hells Angels and Meredith Hunter: What the Altamont story is really about

Meredith Hunter’s murder was about places black people still could not go. His story remains relevant today

Saul Austerlitz
July 10, 2018


Hells Angels and Jorma Kaukonen, Jefferson Airplane at Altamont Dec. 1969 (© Robert Altman 2009)

[www.salon.com]

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: July 11, 2018 19:25

There was a very long thread about this not too long ago. Brought up lots of hatred.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: July 12, 2018 01:04

It's the same story told over and over again, with a more modern political spin. If a white man would have drawn a gun near the stage with those Hell's Angels, the same thing would have happened (the Angels were beating up a lot of people of all races, even ones without guns). It would have been awful either way. It was a tragedy all around. Also, calling Meredith a teenager is true, but in that era, guys his age and younger were getting married, being drafted, etc. I see no purpose for this book. I don't see any purpose for Joel Selvin's and other books about it, either, but at least those authors were there or around at the time. This author admits he wasn't born yet. He adds nothing.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: oldschool ()
Date: July 12, 2018 04:16

Quote
marianna
It's the same story told over and over again, with a more modern political spin. If a white man would have drawn a gun near the stage with those Hell's Angels, the same thing would have happened (the Angels were beating up a lot of people of all races, even ones without guns). It would have been awful either way. It was a tragedy all around. Also, calling Meredith a teenager is true, but in that era, guys his age and younger were getting married, being drafted, etc. I see no purpose for this book. I don't see any purpose for Joel Selvin's and other books about it, either, but at least those authors were there or around at the time. This author admits he wasn't born yet. He adds nothing.

If you have not read the book I think it is presumptuous to state this book adds nothing to the 60's American cultural and Stones history. Same goes if you never read Selvin's book.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-12 04:23 by oldschool.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: July 12, 2018 05:36

The interviews the author has done don't make me want to read the book. If other people want to, good for them. I've never been an Altamont buff.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: July 12, 2018 19:14

Quote
Koen
There was a very long thread about this not too long ago. Brought up lots of hatred.

No it did not and the word hatred is so overused today that it has no meaning anymore. It brought up strong disagreement. Some people can't tel the difference between disagreement and hatred.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: curt ()
Date: July 13, 2018 17:18

This book does introduce some new details not seen in the other books that address this topic.

It does have a new spin but not really a different conclusion than the others.
And despite the new details it also trims details out of other accounts of that day.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: PhillyFAN ()
Date: July 14, 2018 18:31

I have not read the book. But from what I have read from interviews and reviews he brings a fresh new perspective by talking with Meredith Hunter's family. This book maybe addresses the centuries old racism against people of color in this country. There are places in this country that as a person of color I do not feel safe or welcomed. You are constantly prejudged simply because of the hue of your skin. Many times I have been racially profiled for being a person of color for walking or driving. I realize that I could be beaten or even murdered by police as many other people of color have been for no reason other then the melanin in the skin. Crazy right? Most of my white friends worry for me if I am pulled over or asked to produce ID.


Altamount was 1969 and it is 2018. For some reason (sarcasm) the racial animus has reached a fever pitch in the last 2 years in the U.S, and I am really afraid. There are many still similarities and racism just won't die but it does present opportunities and conversations for healing if we just try to listen to each other.


It seems ironic that black man was killed attending a concert for a band that was so heavily influenced by black music and black musicians as their idols and heroes. Then again many people were beaten and abused by Hell's Angels.Equal opportunity abuse. Meredith Hunter was killed was stabbed and kicked to death.


As people that love rock n roll music and that fact music has no color we can all use this tragic example to let healing conversations begin. Music is a healer. (no i am not a hippie)

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: July 14, 2018 19:08

Excellent post PhillyFAN, enlightening and makes me more likely to read the book.

As mentioned before, a previous thread on this topic turned ugly and at times racist, which made me reluctant to post on this one.

Your reality of not feeling "safe or welcomed" in certain places in this country, in 2018, may have played a critical part in Hunter's death in 1969. Unlike most fans, he likely felt similarly about the concert (particularly the "security") and was prepared to defend himself because of it. Bad choice as it turned out, but I am in no position to judge as I don't know how that fear feels and what steps I might take to protect myself if I had to face it.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: PhillyFAN ()
Date: July 14, 2018 19:37

Quote
MisterDDDD
Excellent post PhillyFAN, enlightening and makes me more likely to read the book.

As mentioned before, a previous thread on this topic turned ugly and at times racist, which made me reluctant to post on this one.

Your reality of not feeling "safe or welcomed" in certain places in this country, in 2018, may have played a critical part in Hunter's death in 1969. Unlike most fans, he likely felt similarly about the concert (particularly the "security") and was prepared to defend himself because of it. Bad choice as it turned out, but I am in no position to judge as I don't know how that fear feels and what steps I might take to protect myself if I had to face it.




Thanks Mr. DDDD! - I have the opinion that maybe the decision to bring a gun to a concert was not the smartest. But it speaks to not feeling safe but personally I avoid places I don't feel safe. Let alone totting a gun. In fact I have never held a gun. Not that he deserved to me murdered. But there are always lessons to be learned so that we as humans don't continue to make the same mistakes. I did not see the previous threads and I don't think I want to. We are all so very human and given to human behavior and mistakes. I think the trick is learn from them and actually talk to each. We all have a lot more in common then differences. We all like the Stones music! Cool place to start!

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: July 14, 2018 20:24

Déjà Vu?

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: July 14, 2018 20:26

Quote
Stoneage
Déjà Vu?

Yeap. One side always wants to set the narrative and then insult when someone doesn't see it their way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 20:39 by stanlove.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: maxx ()
Date: July 14, 2018 20:45

Meredith Hunter took a Gun in the trunk of His car and left it there , He only went and got it just before the Stones came on , this was reported at the time in a statement made by his then girlfriend.

She said her and a girl friend went back to the car cos they were bored and he turned up said the Stones will be on soon you don`t want to miss them , then he went to the Boot/Trunk and took out a gun.

I have no idea what made him do that or what he intended and neither does anyone else.

May be coincidence or karma but years later the guy accused of and acquitted of Killing Hunter was found dead floating in the Anderson Reservoir with $10,000 in his pocket same amount Meredith`s mother was reportedly paid by the stones for her lost.

I have no answers to anything.
May they both RIP.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: July 14, 2018 21:24

It makes little sense that anyone would think a gun was a wise choice of self-defense when that one person was vastly outnumbered by the Angels. Hunter was a potential danger to both fans and the band. Again, it does not excuse stabbing him once he was disarmed, but that means that two people were wrong.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: July 14, 2018 21:28

Quote
stanlove
Quote
Koen
There was a very long thread about this not too long ago. Brought up lots of hatred.

No it did not and the word hatred is so overused today that it has no meaning anymore. It brought up strong disagreement. Some people can't tel the difference between disagreement and hatred.

Exactly.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: curt ()
Date: July 14, 2018 21:55

There is much about that day that remains unsaid.

The bare fact of the matter is that the killing of Meredith Hunter was accomplished by a group of Hell's Angels, NOT just the one who was charged.

I would go further, I would say that the prosecution erred in it's presentment of the matter before the court.

The cause of action should not have been a single charge of first degree murder against merely one defendant.

Such charges as assault, assault with a deadly weapon, assault with intent to kill, aggravated assault should have been levied against at least five "patched" members of the Hell's Angels.

Furthermore, the racist nature of this outlaw gang is well known.
How many here know the difference between living in San Francisco and living in Oakland ? How many are aware of the cross burnings that occurred in Oakland in that year alone ?

The trial began with the elimination of any potential black juror.
The only witness with the courage to come forward was intentionally made to seem unreliable in a setting that he did not care to be in and to this day fears for his life.

Some people go on about Meredith "pulling a gun".

He did so in an attempt to defend himself, AFTER he had already been assaulted and set upon by a cohort of over the top thugs that even the police who were present were too afraid of to do a damn thing about ALL of the visibly criminal acts that the thugs did over the course of time from early morning until well into the night.

As a matter of fact there were at least twenty armed individuals in close proximity to the stage for the entire day. Hell, even Sam Cutler had a piece, and so did Passaro.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: July 14, 2018 22:05

Quote
curt
There is much about that day that remains unsaid.

The bare fact of the matter is that the killing of Meredith Hunter was accomplished by a group of Hell's Angels, NOT just the one who was charged.

I would go further, I would say that the prosecution erred in it's presentment of the matter before the court.

The cause of action should not have been a single charge of first degree murder against merely one defendant.

Such charges as assault, assault with a deadly weapon, assault with intent to kill, aggravated assault should have been levied against at least five "patched" members of the Hell's Angels.

Furthermore, the racist nature of this outlaw gang is well known.
How many here know the difference between living in San Francisco and living in Oakland ? How many are aware of the cross burnings that occurred in Oakland in that year alone ?

The trial began with the elimination of any potential black juror.
The only witness with the courage to come forward was intentionally made to seem unreliable in a setting that he did not care to be in and to this day fears for his life.

Some people go on about Meredith "pulling a gun".

He did so in an attempt to defend himself, AFTER he had already been assaulted and set upon by a cohort of over the top thugs that even the police who were present were too afraid of to do a damn thing about ALL of the visibly criminal acts that the thugs did over the course of time from early morning until well into the night.

As a matter of fact there were at least twenty armed individuals in close proximity to the stage for the entire day. Hell, even Sam Cutler had a piece, and so did Passaro.


Was it an all white jury?

I agree with a lot of what you maid but I don't get the point about others having guns there. They didn't pull them.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: Leonioid ()
Date: July 14, 2018 22:17

Sad deal... but...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 23:26 by Leonioid.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: Rokyfan ()
Date: July 14, 2018 22:20

1. you still actually type "LMAO"?


2. 90% is a common vernacular way of saying most of the time or the vast majority of the time, not a scientific number.


3. [www.amazon.com]



4. It's "you're a clown" as in you are, not the possessive "your" like "your prejudices."

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: July 14, 2018 22:28

Quote
Rokyfan
1. you still actually type "LMAO"?


2. 90% is a common vernacular way of saying most of the time or the vast majority of the time, not a scientific number.


3. [www.amazon.com]



4. It's "you're a clown" as in you are, not the possessive "your" like "your prejudices."

1- It is very rare that I type LMAO but the statement called for it. Ha what i would usually post just didn't seem to cut it.

2-The stats don't back up the vast majority of time either I guess unless you live in a black neighborhood. I live in the same state and the statement was total BS.

3-I have a guess you are trying to say stats are meaningless.

4- Great point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 22:29 by stanlove.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: Rokyfan ()
Date: July 14, 2018 22:36

Here's the story of a police chief in Westchester County who was forced to resign because he circulated racist emails on the internet.

[www.lohud.com]

"These police departments are basically run by people who have biased views of African Americans and people of color," Jones said. "The politicians are afraid to admit there's racism in their police departments."


Tip of the iceberg.


I'm saying (actually the book I referenced says, I just defer to experts) that stats can be manipulated to show anything. Something most of us realize, but the book shows many examples of how it is done.


I do not care about stats. It does not matter how many innocent unarmed black kids are killed by cops. You think it is Ok because it is a relatively tiny number. I don't.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: vertigojoe ()
Date: July 14, 2018 22:41

Here we go again

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: July 14, 2018 22:46

Quote
Rokyfan
Here's the story of a police chief in Westchester County who was forced to resign because he circulated racist emails on the internet.

[www.lohud.com]

"These police departments are basically run by people who have biased views of African Americans and people of color," Jones said. "The politicians are afraid to admit there's racism in their police departments."


Tip of the iceberg.


I'm saying (actually the book I referenced says, I just defer to experts) that stats can be manipulated to show anything. Something most of us realize, but the book shows many examples of how it is done.


I do not care about stats. It does not matter how many innocent unarmed black kids are killed by cops. You think it is Ok because it is a relatively tiny number. I don't.


I did not say it is okay. I said it is not the huge problem some make it out to be It is extremely rare. You have a better chance of being hit by lightning.

One problem I have is when people talk about unarmed like it by itself means something. Michael Brown for one was unarmed. he attacked a cop and tried to grab his gun. Another problem with the unarmed argument is you know someone is unarmed because of hindsight that cops don't have. I will look at it case by case and unarmed white people die also.

I don't deny that there is probably some racism involved between cops and blacks. I just KNOW it is greatly exaggerated and that in itself is a huge problem. I only have to bring up one thing to prove it is exaggerated.


People claim that blacks are stopped all the time by cops for all kinds of reasons. We see that right here on this board. We hear it all the time. If you listen to people like that than at least 50% of cop interactions are with black We also hear that cops shoot blacks much easier than they shot whites. We hear constantly that cops kill blacks at a much higher rate doing interactions.


Only 23% of cop kills are of black people. That does not jive at all with the two issues I just posted. You can't have it both ways. So it is a fact that people who claim the two issues that I posted are wrong.

You have two choices. Either cops don't stop blacks as often as some like to claim OR cops are not more likely to kill a black person during an interaction. Make your choice.,



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 23:30 by stanlove.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: Rokyfan ()
Date: July 14, 2018 23:45

So it's not OK but it is not a "huge" problem, maybe only a semi-important problem. Is there a stat for that? I don't know what you think your 23% number has to do with anything, I can think of a dozen reasons off the top of my head why it is meaningless -- what % of teenagers shot in the back by cops are black/white? what % of unarmed people shot by cops are black/white? -- What % of innocent people shot by cops are black/white? --people in the field could think of dozens more reasons why your pseodu-intellectualism, supposedly supported by scientific analysis, is pure BS, to use your word.

White kid shoots up his HS, cops sit outside and then take him unharmed. Black kid pulls out a wallet and it's all over. All coincidence, as proven by the stats, right?


It has nothing to do with stats, or generalities, it has to do with reality. You can look at 2018 baseball and see how overreliance on stats yields false "knowledge." I mean, theoretically one could, I know that you can't.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: July 15, 2018 00:07

Quote
Rokyfan
So it's not OK but it is not a "huge" problem, maybe only a semi-important problem. Is there a stat for that? I don't know what you think your 23% number has to do with anything, I can think of a dozen reasons off the top of my head why it is meaningless -- what % of teenagers shot in the back by cops are black/white? what % of unarmed people shot by cops are black/white? -- What % of innocent people shot by cops are black/white? --people in the field could think of dozens more reasons why your pseodu-intellectualism, supposedly supported by scientific analysis, is pure BS, to use your word.

White kid shoots up his HS, cops sit outside and then take him unharmed. Black kid pulls out a wallet and it's all over. All coincidence, as proven by the stats, right?


It has nothing to do with stats, or generalities, it has to do with reality. You can look at 2018 baseball and see how overreliance on stats yields false "knowledge." I mean, theoretically one could, I know that you can't.


I get it. You don't care about stats on an issue where stats need to be looked at. Like i said pick one of the other. Either blacks are stop all the time or cops are just out to kill blacks. The 23% makes it a FACT that both cannot be true. That is pretty simple.

I see you cherry picked the incident with the school shooter and the black guy with the wallet. Do you want me to start cherry picking the opposite narrative? We can both play that game. Your tactic there is exactly why things are so greatly exaggerated.

Did the see the video of the white guy shot in the hotel lobby for nothing or the white women who was shot when she just walked up to a cop car? I bet not. I will post them if you want. Jails are full of black murderers who were taken alive but a white women can't walk up to a cop car. See that is called cherry picking. Stats are very important when it comes to this issue. We see which side embraces the stats.

Re: 'Just A Shot Away' by Saul Austerlitz, out July 10
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: July 15, 2018 00:24

Quote
stanlove
Either blacks are stop all the time or cops are just out to kill blacks. The 23% makes it a FACT that both cannot be true. That is pretty simple.

More BS.
23% is twice the number of their population. Actual numbers are closer to 25%.

Educate yourself.

"Police in the U.S. killed 1,129 people so far in 2017, and a quarter of those killed were black—even though they comprise just 13 percent of the population, according to a new report.

In addition to being 25 percent of the victims, black people are also three times as likely to be killed by police as white people, according to the report, “Mapping Police Violence,”.

[policeviolencereport.org]

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