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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman


Mick sings better today than his grunting and shouting on Brussels Affair.

Wow, post of the year!

Why? It's pretty obvious..

PS: I didn’t say I didn't like what Mick did on stage in 1973-1976, but it wasn't really singing, was it?

Brussels '73? Fantastic. Useless to argue about of course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-13 23:18 by TheflyingDutchman.

Nothing new. Same old song.
It's always better now than before Tours...
Mick voice, Keith and Ronnie playing...
Stones fan litany.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman


Mick sings better today than his grunting and shouting on Brussels Affair.
Stones fan litany.

Wow, post of the year!

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-13 23:22 by powerage78.

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powerage78
Nothing new. Same old song.
It's always better now than before Tours...
Mick voice, Keith and Ronnie playing...
Stones fan litany.

Quote
TheflyingDutchman

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Mick sings better today than his grunting and shouting on Brussels Affair.
Stones fan litany.

Wow, post of the year!

You go put on SFM from this tour. Then put on SFM from Brussels. If the latter features better singing and a proper vocal technique for you, please give me some of the stuff you're smoking

Might depend on what one considers "better" singing.
It seems Mick sings closer to the studio recordings now than he has in the past, but is that a really always positive?
In some cases I suppose so, but in other cases not so sure - some of those older live versions with snarling and even barking vocals take the songs to a different place.
Not saying they're all around better versions than the studio versions because of it, but there's something to be said about not replicating the studio versions.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 00:17 by Hairball.

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Hairball
Might depend on what one considers "better" singing.
It seems Mick sings closer to the studio recordings now than he has in the past, but is that a really always positive?
In some cases I suppose so, but in other cases not so sure - some of those older live versions with snarling and even barking vocals take the songs to a different place.
Not saying they're all around better versions than the studio versions because of it, but there's something to be said about not replicating the studio versions.

Seems like Mick has been singing this way since about 1981. We got glimpses of it during certain shows during the licks tour. Other than that it's a thing of the past.

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NeverMakeASaintOfMe

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Hairball
Might depend on what one considers "better" singing.
It seems Mick sings closer to the studio recordings now than he has in the past, but is that a really always positive?
In some cases I suppose so, but in other cases not so sure - some of those older live versions with snarling and even barking vocals take the songs to a different place.
Not saying they're all around better versions than the studio versions because of it, but there's something to be said about not replicating the studio versions.

Seems like Mick has been singing this way since about 1981. We got glimpses of it during certain shows during the licks tour. Other than that it's a thing of the past.

Not sure which way you're talking about - the snarling barking or the closer to studio version vocals. He sounded a bit out of control in '81 (in a positive way) with a deeper voice, but probably more in control than previous tours. Each subsequent tour his singing became closer to the studio versions...not much snarling and barking to speak of, if any at all. Either way, today the nasally whining style he acquired the last decade or so is less noticeable than before, but I recall at Desert Trip he started sounding that way towards the end of each show - especially wkd. 2. Might have been Doctors orders telling him if his throat gets scratchy during the performance, just sing through your nose to prevent desert dust from clogging everything up, but as we know he became sick anyways.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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NeverMakeASaintOfMe

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Hairball
Might depend on what one considers "better" singing.
It seems Mick sings closer to the studio recordings now than he has in the past, but is that a really always positive?
In some cases I suppose so, but in other cases not so sure - some of those older live versions with snarling and even barking vocals take the songs to a different place.
Not saying they're all around better versions than the studio versions because of it, but there's something to be said about not replicating the studio versions.

Seems like Mick has been singing this way since about 1981. We got glimpses of it during certain shows during the licks tour. Other than that it's a thing of the past.

Because that's when he became a pro. Had he kept on like in 1973-1976 he would never be able to sing and perform like he does on stage today.

And it's not about replicating the studio versions. More about using a vocal technique that doesn't kill his voice, while still sounding great.

This was the last European tour. Now they might be touring the rest of the world. Will they come back to Europe when Charlie is 80 or older? No. The last roudn has begann.

The Stones cleaned up their sound to be more commercial for larger crowds !

They are not the only band who cleaned up their sound, Aerosmith, Iggy Pop, Tina Turner,Joe Cocker, AcDc ec

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DandelionPowderman

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powerage78
Nothing new. Same old song.
It's always better now than before Tours...
Mick voice, Keith and Ronnie playing...
Stones fan litany.

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TheflyingDutchman

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Mick sings better today than his grunting and shouting on Brussels Affair.
Stones fan litany.

Wow, post of the year!

You go put on SFM from this tour. Then put on SFM from Brussels. If the latter features better singing and a proper vocal technique for you, please give me some of the stuff you're smoking

You diminish our chat to SFM. On Brussels, SFM, together with JJF it's the last two songs, out of breath and played fast, but still very powerful. Brussels is more than that, MR.D, Heartbreaker, Angie, Gimme Shelter, HTW, etc sung very powerful and dynamic, in tune, not always of course, Mick is not in the studio: there he's a techhical singer, at least in his chosen field. Nowadays the power has gone. SFM 2018? The first song in London Jagger sings sfm like he is reading a book, no power, often out of tune, too safe. And that's only logic when you're 75 years old. Pavarotti would have had the same issues if he was still alive. Your a great Stones fan i.e captain though: Never leave a sinking ship. That suits you One more thing: The subject is not really important, to each his own, and... I don't smoke.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 13:25 by TheflyingDutchman.

Mick's voice still works very well for the ballads, I actually like his vocals better on I Got The Blues from Fonda 2015 than on the new San Jose '99 version. It's more on the loud rock songs his voice lacks the power it had 10-15 years, especially later in the set on songs like Start Me Up. He still sings good but you can't expect a 75 year old to sing better than ever before.

I don't know whether he sings better. Maybe from a pure technical point of view. In the seventies he used to shout a lot. Seemed to be a fashion then... What I mean is the fact that something
happened to his voice in the late 90s. It became more fragile and nasal. And broke up more easily. I guess it's since then he works with a voice coach. A horrible voice coach though.
I listened to Commander doing scales on one of the DVD:s on "Four Flicks". Just horrible. My conclusion: Due to the fact that his voice is very weak these days he has to be very professional on
how he puts his voice into use. More careful. He has to use certain skills in order to sustain his voice. That's it? We're all satisfied now?

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Stoneage
I don't know whether he sings better. Maybe from a pure technical point of view. In the seventies he used to shout a lot. Seemed to be a fashion then... What I mean is the fact that something
happened to his voice in the late 90s. It became more fragile and nasal. And broke up more easily. I guess it's since then he works with a voice coach. A horrible voice coach though.
I listened to Commander doing scales on one of the DVD:s on "Four Flicks". Just horrible. My conclusion: Due to the fact that his voice is very weak these days he has to be very professional on
how he puts his voice into use. More careful. He has to use certain skills in order to sustain his voice. That's it? We're all satisfied now?

Agreed, your Honour.

Quote from above:
“The first song in London Jagger sings sfm like he is reading a book, no power, often out of tune, too safe.”

Whaaaaat? Oh I beg to differ. He @#$%& lept in the air out the gate, and the aggression and power were palpable thousands of miles away, through a phone!

Damn, you die hard Stones fans are acting like an army .

Another aspect is whether one can talk about singing when it comes to rock and roll. Sure, Elvis could sing. An many others. But to call Dylan's nasal sounds singing is stretching it.
Or Lou Reed's talking. Or Robbie Robertson's hissing sounds? Singing is overrated, maybe?

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Stoneage
Another aspect is whether one can talk about singing when it comes to rock and roll. Sure, Elvis could sing. An many others. But to call Dylan's nasal sounds singing is stretching it.
Or Lou Reed's talking. Or Robbie Robertson's hissing sounds? Singing is overrated, maybe?

I think Grace Slick was great singer. Bob Dylan not so much, although he was a great songwriter/ poet. But hey, It's called a snake pit by now.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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powerage78
Nothing new. Same old song.
It's always better now than before Tours...
Mick voice, Keith and Ronnie playing...
Stones fan litany.

Quote
TheflyingDutchman

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Mick sings better today than his grunting and shouting on Brussels Affair.
Stones fan litany.

Wow, post of the year!

You go put on SFM from this tour. Then put on SFM from Brussels. If the latter features better singing and a proper vocal technique for you, please give me some of the stuff you're smoking

You diminish our chat to SFM. On Brussels, SFM, together with JJF it's the last two songs, out of breath and played fast, but still very powerful. Brussels is more than that, MR.D, Heartbreaker, Angie, Gimme Shelter, HTW, etc sung very powerful and dynamic, in tune, not always of course, Mick is not in the studio: there he's a techhical singer, at least in his chosen field. Nowadays the power has gone. SFM 2018? The first song in London Jagger sings sfm like he is reading a book, no power, often out of tune, too safe. And that's only logic when you're 75 years old. Pavarotti would have had the same issues if he was still alive. Your a great Stones fan i.e captain though: Never leave a sinking ship. That suits you One more thing: The subject is not really important, to each his own, and... I don't smoke.

Shouted very powerful and dynamic, would be more correct. Angie is excellent. There he really sings.

We were talking about good singing, right? If you isolated Mick’s vocals on GS from Brussels the answer would be quite clear: he's stoned, out of breath and he shouts and doesn't really carry the tune.

I love it, and he sounds cool - but it's not good singing. That was my point.

I have studied this album closer than most fans for a while - before our gig

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Stoneage
I don't know whether he sings better. Maybe from a pure technical point of view. In the seventies he used to shout a lot. Seemed to be a fashion then... What I mean is the fact that something
happened to his voice in the late 90s. It became more fragile and nasal. And broke up more easily. I guess it's since then he works with a voice coach. A horrible voice coach though.
I listened to Commander doing scales on one of the DVD:s on "Four Flicks". Just horrible. My conclusion: Due to the fact that his voice is very weak these days he has to be very professional on
how he puts his voice into use. More careful. He has to use certain skills in order to sustain his voice. That's it? We're all satisfied now?

Which fact?

delete.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 15:58 by TheflyingDutchman.

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DandelionPowderman
Shouted very powerful and dynamic, would be more correct. Angie is excellent. There he really sings.

What about Janis Joplin then, you more or less trash her singing abilities, if we compare her to Jagger? You cannot sing good and pull off great show, running up and down the stage. Classical singes stand still, for a good reason. Hence Jagger's best singing is on studio records.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 16:18 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Dandy
Which fact?

It isn't science we're talking about here. Am I the only one noticing that Sir Michael's voice turned a lot deeper and more nasal in the late 90s? It's even recognizable when he talks.
He sounds a bit cold. At least to me. Do you not hear anything of that, Dandy? Haven't you noticed that his voice has changed a lot through the years? You're a musician Dandy, I'm not.
But I have ears. This comedian catches Jagger's voice modulation very well. Of course he exaggerates a bit...

[www.youtube.com]

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Stoneage

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Dandy
Which fact?

It isn't science we're talking about here. Am I the only one noticing that Sir Michael's voice turned a lot deeper and more nasal in the late 90s? It's even recognizable when he talks.
He sounds a bit cold. At least to me. Do you not hear anything of that, Dandy? Haven't you noticed that his voice has changed a lot through the years? You're a musician Dandy, I'm not.
But I have ears. This comedian catches Jagger's voice modulation very well. Of course he exaggerates a bit...

[www.youtube.com]

Seems like we're talking about two different things here. IMO, he is a better singer now AND more nasal/mannered.

Personally, I love his 1978-singing where he was almost growling, but he didn't SING better back then.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman
Shouted very powerful and dynamic, would be more correct. Angie is excellent. There he really sings.

What about Janis Joplin then, you more or less trash her singing abilities, if we compare her to Jagger? You cannot sing and pull off great show, running up and down the stage. Classical singes stand still, for a good reason. Hence Jagger's best singing is on studio records.

You can't compare a unique, natural husky-voiced singer like Janis with Mick's stage antiques, IMO. Janis carried the tune and always sang in key

Mick sort of extended his stage persona and released tension and energy. Brilliant and cool, but not good singing. Rewind four years and you'll hear better singing from him, IMO.

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman
Shouted very powerful and dynamic, would be more correct. Angie is excellent. There he really sings.

What about Janis Joplin then, you more or less trash her singing abilities, if we compare her to Jagger? You cannot sing and pull off great show, running up and down the stage. Classical singes stand still, for a good reason. Hence Jagger's best singing is on studio records.

You can't compare a unique, natural husky-voiced singer like Janis with Mick's stage antiques, IMO. Janis carried the tune and always sang in key

Mick sort of extended his stage persona and released tension and energy. Brilliant and cool, but not good singing. Rewind four years and you'll hear better singing from him, IMO.

Listen to Jagger, Essen 1970. There he had it all: Male husky -voiced (great find ) feeling , timing ,singing in tune, spontaneous syncopated phrasing, very soulfull and sensitive. He was 27 then. Age matters, believe me. .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-14 18:39 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman
Nowadays the power has gone. SFM 2018? The first song in London Jagger sings sfm like he is reading a book, no power, often out of tune, too safe.

Were u there dutchman? I was, in the upper deck about as far away from the stage as you could get at the opposite end of the stadium. The band just rocked, out of the gate, not just Mick. That show was better than Dublin and London 2 where I was on the rail in Pit B for both of those shows. And it started with SFM. No wonder the majority of the rest of the shows started with SFM.


plexi

del



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-15 13:17 by TheflyingDutchman.

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timbernardis

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TheflyingDutchman
Nowadays the power has gone. SFM 2018? The first song in London Jagger sings sfm like he is reading a book, no power, often out of tune, too safe.

Were u there dutchman? I was, in the upper deck about as far away from the stage as you could get at the opposite end of the stadium. The band just rocked, out of the gate, not just Mick. That show was better than Dublin and London 2 where I was on the rail in Pit B for both of those shows. And it started with SFM. No wonder the majority of the rest of the shows started with SFM.


plexi

I have seen them in Rotterdam 1973, The Hague 1976, and heard them live on pinkpop
2014, with Mick Taylor, loud and clear. I have heard decent audio recordings on Youtube, their more recent performances etc etc with excellent headphones. Igot quite a good impression on what I heard over the years, 45 years that is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-15 13:28 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman
Igot quite a good impression on what I heard over the years, 45 years that is.

Not taking ànything away from your experience & expertise: but if you haven't heard them play SFM live (meaning: really being there) in '17 and/or '18, you do nót know what you're talking about I'm affraid.

the '17 versions were almost all pure highlights - and I don'nt even mean "compared to the rest"... I mean: highlights in a Rolling Stones historical kind of perspective... tru & tru!

And the '18 versions were compareable in quality, imo, although they didn't 'peak' as they did the year before anymore. Plus: they left it out of the setlist way too often. But the beauty about '18 was that they finally (re-)discovered SFM as opening song again. It's a stout song, that one; it can work for you eitherway they 'time' it, in the gig. But it's definitely a brave sounding opener to me!

Anyway - just two cents added.