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Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Anitapal82 ()
Date: June 12, 2018 17:51

I started a 50 page thread last year when they were in Europe saying that keef is in trouble,with bum notes a plenty etc and maybe its over for him. But after seeing them in Manchester and Edinburgh I have changed my mind about Keith . Something has changed , he is back ! I haven't seem him so focused and engaged for a few years . Is it not drinking , or some medication thing , I don't know , but he was on fire . I stood in the pit and stared at him for 2 hours in Edinburgh and was in awe. He is playing much more in songs than he has in recent tours . And instead of a sometimes vacant look he is engaged and grinning all night. Also his solo in sympathy in recent years has been lacklustre generic blues in e , but I have never heard him do so many of the original licks from the studio version. I am now raving , I just got home after a 24 flight back to Australia , but had to give my thoughts. Peace . Goodnight

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: June 12, 2018 17:54

I agree somewhat. Better than expected. But by no way anything near the heydays.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Anitapal82 ()
Date: June 12, 2018 18:01

Yes definitely better than expected . Hard to believe the heyday was about 40 years ago, for me, but they are still rocking.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: spikenyc ()
Date: June 12, 2018 18:37

Like a fine wine, getting better with age! smileys with beer

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 12, 2018 18:44

He seems to make less mistakes than the last leg that's for sure, and he does look happy and healthy.
But still, there's a tentativeness and restraint to alot of what he plays, though that could be because he's focusing on not screwing up which probably takes alot of effort for him.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: June 12, 2018 18:48

Quote
Stoneage
I agree somewhat. Better than expected. But by no way anything at near the heydays.

When was his heyday performance-wise, though? Like yourself, I'm imprsssed with his more focused and sober playing. However, he's a notch-or-so away from his Licks-era capabilities. It's only retrospectively that I realise how good he was during those first few shows I attended. Age, his arthritic-like fingers and creeping alcoholism have all being contributing factors to his poor-playing circa 2006-17. He's somewhat turning a corner.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Date: June 12, 2018 18:55

Quote
Hairball
He seems to make less mistakes than the last leg that's for sure, and he does look happy and healthy.
But still, there's a tentativeness and restraint to alot of what he plays, though that could be because he's focusing on not screwing up which probably takes alot of effort for him.

I don't think it has anything to do with mistakes. Keith has always made mistakes.

The difference now is that he is more engaged musically, and that he plays more stuff that means something for the songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-12 19:02 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: June 12, 2018 19:01

Less posing too...for more humility

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 12, 2018 19:12

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
He seems to make less mistakes than the last leg that's for sure, and he does look happy and healthy.
But still, there's a tentativeness and restraint to alot of what he plays, though that could be because he's focusing on not screwing up which probably takes alot of effort for him.

I don't think it has anything to do with mistakes. Keith has always done mistakes.

The difference now is that he is more engaged musically, and that he plays more stuff that means something for the songs.

I was talking about the difference between this leg and last leg in reference to to original post by Anitapal82 - a difference of less than a year.
The first leg seemed to have more mistakes (or flubs if you like) than this leg based on all the reviews I've read from those who were at both, and simply by watching youtube videos.
And yes he might be playing "more stuff that means something for the songs", but there's a tentativeness and/or restraint in order to accomplish that.
I actually prefer the reckless Keith of old from the Licks tour though who wasn't afraid of going off the rails in search of the perfect lick - there was a balance between great and not-so-great.
Now it seems subdued..some tentativeness and restraint...and Ronnie carries alot of the load.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Date: June 12, 2018 19:20

Quote
Hairball
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
He seems to make less mistakes than the last leg that's for sure, and he does look happy and healthy.
But still, there's a tentativeness and restraint to alot of what he plays, though that could be because he's focusing on not screwing up which probably takes alot of effort for him.

I don't think it has anything to do with mistakes. Keith has always done mistakes.

The difference now is that he is more engaged musically, and that he plays more stuff that means something for the songs.

I was talking about the difference between this leg and last leg in reference to to original post by Anitapal82 - a difference of less than a year.
The first leg seemed to have more mistakes (or flubs if you like) than this leg based on all the reviews I've read from those who were at both, and simply by watching youtube videos.
And yes he might be playing "more stuff that means something for the songs", but there's a tentativeness and/or restraint in order to accomplish that.
I actually prefer the reckless Keith of old from the Licks tour though who wasn't afraid of going off the rails in search of the perfect lick - there was a balance between great and not-so-great.
Now it seems subdued..some tentativeness and restraint...and Ronnie carries alot of the load.

I was thinking of this line in Anitapal's post in particular:

<He is playing much more in songs than he has in recent tours>

I think that's the most important part of his improvement, flubbed riffs and poor solos aside. They have been there occasionally since 1967.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: June 12, 2018 19:44

He is far better than 1969, 1972 or 1973.
It was the gold era but he did already mistakes.
Nothing has really changed.
They are better than ever.

PS : Keith is Always better year + 1 since 1989. It's a rule. Yeahhhh.


Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
He seems to make less mistakes than the last leg that's for sure, and he does look happy and healthy.
But still, there's a tentativeness and restraint to alot of what he plays, though that could be because he's focusing on not screwing up which probably takes alot of effort for him.

I don't think it has anything to do with mistakes. Keith has always done mistakes.

The difference now is that he is more engaged musically, and that he plays more stuff that means something for the songs.

I was talking about the difference between this leg and last leg in reference to to original post by Anitapal82 - a difference of less than a year.
The first leg seemed to have more mistakes (or flubs if you like) than this leg based on all the reviews I've read from those who were at both, and simply by watching youtube videos.
And yes he might be playing "more stuff that means something for the songs", but there's a tentativeness and/or restraint in order to accomplish that.
I actually prefer the reckless Keith of old from the Licks tour though who wasn't afraid of going off the rails in search of the perfect lick - there was a balance between great and not-so-great.
Now it seems subdued..some tentativeness and restraint...and Ronnie carries alot of the load.

I was thinking of this line in Anitapal's post in particular:



I think that's the most important part of his improvement, flubbed riffs and poor solos aside. They have been there occasionally since 1967.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-12 19:53 by powerage78.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 12, 2018 19:52

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Hairball
He seems to make less mistakes than the last leg that's for sure, and he does look happy and healthy.
But still, there's a tentativeness and restraint to alot of what he plays, though that could be because he's focusing on not screwing up which probably takes alot of effort for him.

I don't think it has anything to do with mistakes. Keith has always done mistakes.

The difference now is that he is more engaged musically, and that he plays more stuff that means something for the songs.

I was talking about the difference between this leg and last leg in reference to to original post by Anitapal82 - a difference of less than a year.
The first leg seemed to have more mistakes (or flubs if you like) than this leg based on all the reviews I've read from those who were at both, and simply by watching youtube videos.
And yes he might be playing "more stuff that means something for the songs", but there's a tentativeness and/or restraint in order to accomplish that.
I actually prefer the reckless Keith of old from the Licks tour though who wasn't afraid of going off the rails in search of the perfect lick - there was a balance between great and not-so-great.
Now it seems subdued..some tentativeness and restraint...and Ronnie carries alot of the load.

I was thinking of this line in Anitapal's post in particular:

<He is playing much more in songs than he has in recent tours>

I think that's the most important part of his improvement, flubbed riffs and poor solos aside. They have been there occasionally since 1967.

Yes there's always been mistakes ( no one is denying that), but the bottom line is he's making less mistakes now than he was during the first leg of the No Filter Tour.
And as pointed out in the first sentence of Anitapal's post, because there's less mistakes, his playing is better (and is better received by the audience).
Not sure how you can say "I don't think it has anything to do with mistakes" regarding his improvement when clearly it does.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-12 19:56 by Hairball.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Date: June 12, 2018 20:00

I explained that, and I'm pretty sure you understand it, too smiling smiley

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 12, 2018 20:10

Yes, but you disagreed with what I posted maybe just for the sake of an argument?
The facts are, yes he's playing more stuff that means something for the songs, and he's also playing less mistakes than the first leg - that's really the bottom line.
Add those two together (regardless of which might be more important), and it equates to better playing.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: June 12, 2018 20:14

[www.youtube.com]

Too bad he keeps botching the intro to Start Me Up.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 12, 2018 20:25

Quote
keefriff99
[www.youtube.com]

Too bad he keeps botching the intro to Start Me Up.

That's quite a major doozy of a screw up - especially noticeable as the opening tune, though I realize many have an explanation in defense of it (volume knob, etc).
SMU is the one last major hurdles it seems (Sympathy solo and the Happy intro aside), and if he could just get it right his overall playing would be absolutely perfect and better than it's ever been!!!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: June 12, 2018 20:47

Quote
Hairball
Quote
keefriff99
[www.youtube.com]

Too bad he keeps botching the intro to Start Me Up.

That's quite a major doozy of a screw up - especially noticeable as the opening tune, though I realize many have an explanation in defense of it (volume knob, etc).
SMU is the one last major hurdles it seems (Sympathy solo and the Happy intro aside), and if he could just get it right his overall playing would be absolutely perfect and better than it's ever been!!!
Didn't he also botch it at the Hyde Park show in 2013, and it was fixed on the "official" release? I know at the time some people were making excuses for him, saying his scarf was draped over the fretboard, or something.

At this point, all I can do is laugh, but really...the intro to Start Me Up is SO iconic, especially as as show-opener, that blowing it is really inexcusable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-12 20:51 by keefriff99.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: June 12, 2018 20:50

All one can hope for us that Keith performs to the best of his physical capabilities; something which - going by what I have heard - he has been doing so far during this run of U.K. shows. He looks healthier and this would suggest he's made some lifestyle changes.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: June 12, 2018 20:51

Quote
Big Al
All one can hope for us that Keith performs to the best of his physical capabilities; something which - going by what I have heard - he has been doing so far during this run of U.K. shows. He looks healthier and this would suggest he's made some lifestyle changes.
Yeah, he LOOKS great...I'm very happy about that.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Date: June 12, 2018 21:21

Most important thing is Keith looks very happy. I am sure his great playing is a result of that.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: June 12, 2018 21:42

He can't afford to pose, wing it or simply being sloppy anymore. He has to concentrate on the playing. Which is a good thing I guess.
And I'm sure he has cut down on the booze. I don't know what kind of meds he takes for the arthritis. But I'm sure they don't mix well with alcohol.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: June 12, 2018 21:56

keefriff99 wrote: "Too bad he keeps botching the intro to Start Me Up"

I expressed my opinion/observation on that, on Edinburgh thread. We have to live knowing that a kind of “opening riffs” syndrome is capturing Keith, from time to time. In the last years the intro of SMU (as opening song) have been "victim". In 2003 the intro of "Brown Sugar" (also opener, then) it was in this position. And in 1981 the intro of "Under My Thumb" (opener, then) had been unrecognizable, sometimes. So, it seems like the “opening riffs” syndrome has basically to do with factors affecting Keith’s nervousness or Keith’s “serenity”, when a gig starts.

But his overall playing is solid enough, now. And in my ears Keith's solos on SFTD sound much better on the current tour.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: June 12, 2018 22:14

On standard tuning Keith is playing solid rhythm, his screw ups are on open tunings for the most part and his attempt at playing the SFTD solo has improved
this time around which is not saying much.

I still get enjoyment listening to Keith rather then focusing on RW who is carrying the load these days. We have an improved RW better then having Chuck Leavell carry the show.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: June 12, 2018 22:21

Great post , this gives me a chance to make some observations about the main man Keith.
Yes he is playing better, yes he appears sober, yes he plays more confidently, yes he is happy.

But something is missing, i don't think Keith can be Keef without the drink coke or weed.
It's almost like he sold out, it's Keith but not as you now it.
Where are the moves, where are the gestures, where is the mean old devil prowling the stage like a caged black Panther.

This is the thing, Keith was never Keef, he hid behind the drink and the drugs to become that Keef Richards, we are seeing the real Keith now, i quiet shy man, a sympathetic conscientious player ( give or take the odd scarf me up ) who just loves the music and being part of a band of happy musicians.
This is the new Keith , but it's nothing new, good luck to him, he could be around doing this for another 5 or 6 years with Mick if he stays fit and sober.
Rock on brother smoking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-12 22:31 by keithsman.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: June 12, 2018 22:33

Quote
OpenG
On standard tuning Keith is playing solid rhythm, his screw ups are on open tunings for the most part and his attempt at playing the SFTD solo has improved
this time around which is not saying much.

I still get enjoyment listening to Keith rather then focusing on RW who is carrying the load these days. We have an improved RW better then having Chuck Leavell carry the show.

Chuck La Vel couldn't carry my wife's handbag winking smiley

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Date: June 12, 2018 23:05

The moves are still there, Riffie. Watch any SFM from 5his tour and you'll be happy smiling smiley

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: June 12, 2018 23:24

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The moves are still there, Riffie. Watch any SFM from 5his tour and you'll be happy smiling smiley

We didn't get SFM last Tuesday, hear's hoping they play it Friday DP thumbs up.

He doesn't seem to move and get into JJF so much as last year, or prowl the stage and go out into the crowd so much either, Keith's just putting it all into the music.
I think he might be confident enough to start going for it movement wise in the second half of the tour. 7 shows left to bring it all together winking smiley

Pity these tours are not longer, 30 shows would see a marked improvement imho.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-12 23:26 by keithsman.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: June 12, 2018 23:34

Regarding that SMU flub -- not a good way to begin a show.

They put the big, fast rockers in the opening slot for a reason -- to start with a bang.

Keith messing that up is the same as Mick tripping over himself going for the mic (imagine if a show started off like that!).

Still, it's good to see Keith the musician instead of Keith the rock star.

That elegantly wasted/pirate persona image really was for the longest time threatening to eclipse his accomplishments.

You don't want a Rolling Stone succumbing to a cartoon image a la Dee Dee Ramone.

By the way, has anyone seen Keith's unaired 1978 Saturday Night Live skit?



"Every February I have to go to Switzerland to have my blood changed."

The skit took hours to complete because Keith kept forgetting his lines. Gee, I wonder why.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: June 12, 2018 23:46

He will be far better in 2019

Quote
keithsman
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The moves are still there, Riffie. Watch any SFM from 5his tour and you'll be happy smiling smiley

We didn't get SFM last Tuesday, hear's hoping they play it Friday DP thumbs up.

He doesn't seem to move and get into JJF so much as last year, or prowl the stage and go out into the crowd so much either, Keith's just putting it all into the music.
I think he might be confident enough to start going for it movement wise in the second half of the tour. 7 shows left to bring it all together winking smiley

Pity these tours are not longer, 30 shows would see a marked improvement imho.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-12 23:46 by powerage78.

Re: Goodbye tentative Keef , welcome back keef the rhythm machine
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 12, 2018 23:59

As long as he plays it safe, there will be less mistakes.
And by "safe" I mean healthy lifestyle, subdued/minimal playing, no posing, no real improvisation, and basically sticking to the game plan that's been set by Mick and Chuck. Occasionally a volume knob will get in his way, or he'll forget to turn it on (which is a mistake in itself), but he looks healthy and happy and that's more than can be expected considering everything he's been through over the many years.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

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