Sorry about the misspelling, it's bollocks of course. Nothing else. Is it possible to log in here without getting a data attack warning everytime? Am I the only one?

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rev20

1) wow LOL i have gotten exactly nowhere with the ultra-orthodox

2) my only hope is that the great bulk of silent readers are at least reserving
judgement about Mick's situation with his women, especially currently, because
it is a very serious situation, and that most of you out there, please,
are, and will be, paying attention to the evidence that has been and will be leaking.

3) the only person that Mick has been almost always honest with is himself.
that is his moral code. the only person that Keith has been seriously
dishonest with is himself. just like most humans. which is why we love
keith so much, he's way more like us.

4) and why has the relationship between mick and keith improved so much
recently? because keith is so much more honest with himself than he used
to be, so in return mick is more honest with keith too

And I wont breathe a word about it
I know I'm gonna take the blame
Give you all the love
In this mighty world
If you just let me clear my name

I'm a honest man
I'm a honest lover

(As some of you know, me and Keith used to see the same shrink at the
same time in NYC. She's mentioned in passing in Life. Such an
amazing person, more like Mick psychologically than anyone I know of.
One of her few bits of advice to me, and believe me her thing, like
Mick's, was generally to NOT give advice, to NOT be honest with you
until you were honest with yourself... anyway, when I was really struggling
with the psychoanalysis, she'd just say, "don't worry about it,
the hardest thing in the world to face is yourself." keith only stuck with
her maybe 18 months, and transformed from a junky to an alky. i stuck
with her for ten years and cleaned up completely. she was so fcuking
tough. like a root canal every week. Jim Carroll could only last with
her two weeks. unfortunately.)



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-06 03:33 by rev20.

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Rocky Dijon

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Hairball
Big thanks to Keith for saving the Stones, and also persuading Mick to do Blue and Lonesome.

I think it's safe to say that's another Keith version of History.

Perhaps, but I believe Mick himself said that he had hesitations committing to the idea of an entire blues album with the Stones. We know he didn't release the Red Devils material for some reason (except one song), so maybe he felt the same way with regards to the Stones doing an entire album. Maybe he didn't want to be seen as a dried up covers act, and seeing that blues covers albums had been done by countless others (Paul Rogers, Steve Miller, Aerosmith, etc), maybe he didn't want to join the herd? Anyhow, I see no reason to disbelieve Keith regarding B&L, nor am I sure why someone would turn Keith's words into some sort of fabricated fantasy. Sure some of what he says is probably BS , but the story about B&L seems genuine imo.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I think I've probably said all I can on it. Of course not everyone will agree.

I do like the notion that I turned Keith's words into a fabricated fantasy. You're right, he doesn't always lie. Like when Muddy Waters stopped selling more records than Frank Sinatra and wasn't selling out the Hollywood Bowl any more, the Chess Brothers had him in overalls painting the ceiling at 2120 S. Michigan Avenue. That's probably pretty much the way it went down. It certainly makes for a good story and that is Keith's gift, I would never deny that.

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Hairball
We know he didn't release the Red Devils material for some reason (except one song)

Because a full-length release in that style would have been hopelessly overshadowed by the outcry, "It should have been a Stones album!"

Nonetheless, it is reassuring, given his ever-present penchant for chasing after the latest pop trends, that even when moonlighting away from his day job he still enjoys the blues.

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rev20
the only person that Mick has been almost always honest with is himself.
that is his moral code. the only person that Keith has been seriously
dishonest with is himself. just like most humans. which is why we love
keith so much, he's way more like us.

You have a knack of saying things that sound as if they've never been said before. One of my harshest critics on IORR quite rightly blasted me for being a broken record running through the same tired opinions ad nauseam. I've certainly done that in this thread.

Your other gift is saying something I don't really believe 100% but saying it in a fashion that makes me want to question whether I shouldn't.

I resent the fact that you know who I am behind the make-believe conga drum, but revvy remains masked and anonymous. I do hope you use your very evident gifts for a greater purpose than a bunch of septuagenarians so many of us pretend are still "boys."

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Rocky Dijon
I think I've probably said all I can on it. Of course not everyone will agree.

I do like the notion that I turned Keith's words into a fabricated fantasy. You're right, he doesn't always lie. Like when Muddy Waters stopped selling more records than Frank Sinatra and wasn't selling out the Hollywood Bowl any more, the Chess Brothers had him in overalls painting the ceiling at 2120 S. Michigan Avenue. That's probably pretty much the way it went down. It certainly makes for a good story and that is Keith's gift, I would never deny that.

As I said, some of what Keith says is BS, but that doesn't mean everything he says is constantly BS.

When you say things like: "Keith's version of events ALWAYS needs to be questioned" and "I refuse to see the world through Jane Rose-tinted glasses", it seems you're unwilling to ever give the man the benefit of the doubt, and everything he says should be mistrusted and/or is a flat out lie. I'm all for being skeptical (and maybe even cynical at times), but there comes a time where one might want accept some of these statements as truth and facts. For the record, I'm not speaking from the perspective of a Keith fanatic, and I know you're not a Keith hater, but surely not everything Keith says is fantasy and fiction (like the Muddy story you cited above).

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
stonehearted

Quote
Hairball
We know he didn't release the Red Devils material for some reason (except one song)

Because a full-length release in that style would have been hopelessly overshadowed by the outcry, "It should have been a Stones album!"

Nonetheless, it is reassuring, given his ever-present penchant for chasing after the latest pop trends, that even when moonlighting away from his day job he still enjoys the blues.

I think it was Rick Rubin who pushed him in that direction during those sessions.
Unfortunately Mick didn't see the quality in it, and/or still wanted to be seen as a relevant contemporary songwriter in his own right. Either way, he was wrong with both assumptions.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Rocky Dijon
I do hope you use your very evident gifts for a greater purpose than a bunch of septuagenarians so many of us pretend are still "boys."

thanks Rocky

i read an article recently about Mick running around New Orleans trying
to meet the very reclusive Fats Domino, because he just wanted to say "thank you".
this was not young mick jagger. this was super-famous mick jagger.

Not consciously, but probably the reason i've written about the Stones for
24 years is just to say "thank you". theyve improved my life, and the world,
hugely, in my opinion. or maybe i should say it this way, the world would
be a far far worse place if it hadnt been for the rolling stones



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-07 02:14 by rev20.

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Hairball
As I said, some of what Keith says is BS, but that doesn't mean everything he says is constantly BS.

When you say things like: "Keith's version of events ALWAYS needs to be questioned" and "I refuse to see the world through Jane Rose-tinted glasses", it seems you're unwilling to ever give the man the benefit of the doubt, and everything he says should be mistrusted and/or is a flat out lie. I'm all for being skeptical (and maybe even cynical at times), but there comes a time where one might want accept some of these statements as truth and facts. For the record, I'm not speaking from the perspective of a Keith fanatic, and I know you're not a Keith hater, but surely not everything Keith says is fantasy and fiction (like the Muddy story you cited above).

That's fair. And yes, my version of the Muddy story was intended to be ridiculous.

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Rocky Dijon

Quote
TeddyB1018
But Rocky, Talk is Cheap outselling Primitive Cool almost two to one was a disastrous commercial result for Mick and for Sony at that time. He was Mick Jagger! Keith was his sidekick, as far as most of the public was concerned, if they even knew who he was. Of course, a Jagger solo album was of less interest because there were already many, better Stones albums for people to buy if they wanted to hear him sing.

Agreed in as much as it gave Richard Branson the Stones as soon as the Sony deal was over. To be fair, it wasn't Sony until the STEEL WHEELS tour was well underway, it was CBS.

Yes, it was Walter Yetnikoff who came up short on Mick’s solo albums for Columbia.

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Rocky Dijon

Quote
Hairball
As I said, some of what Keith says is BS, but that doesn't mean everything he says is constantly BS.

When you say things like: "Keith's version of events ALWAYS needs to be questioned" and "I refuse to see the world through Jane Rose-tinted glasses", it seems you're unwilling to ever give the man the benefit of the doubt, and everything he says should be mistrusted and/or is a flat out lie. I'm all for being skeptical (and maybe even cynical at times), but there comes a time where one might want accept some of these statements as truth and facts. For the record, I'm not speaking from the perspective of a Keith fanatic, and I know you're not a Keith hater, but surely not everything Keith says is fantasy and fiction (like the Muddy story you cited above).

That's fair. And yes, my version of the Muddy story was intended to be ridiculous.

Of course it was and I read it that way, but...has that Muddy story ever really been 100% discredited? Yeah it sounds like fiction (Muddy painting ceilings surely not!), and most of us joke about it, but.......hmmm....
Might be a grain of truth somewhere in between the cracks of paint on that mythical ceiling? Or maybe Muddy was painting a masterpiece on canvas and Keith twisted it all with his skills at telling tall tales.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
rev20

(As some of you know, me and Keith used to see the same shrink at the
same time in NYC. keith only stuck with
her maybe 18 months, and transformed from a junky to an alky. i stuck
with her for ten years and cleaned up completely. she was so fcuking
tough. like a root canal every week. Jim Carroll could only last with
her two weeks. unfortunately.)

i'm sorry, this stupidly kinda makes it sound like i am putting myself above
keith, which i am absolutely not. keith had to get back to his extraordinarily
important job, had to get back to the frontlines. he had to re-join the
battle, wounded or not, while i had the luxury of nursing my wounds.
keith has suffered enormously, for us, for the music. i am of course
nothing compared to him

i am however putting myself above Jim Carroll LOL



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-06 14:57 by rev20.

It would be great if they release a Blu-ray of that 1985 movie fully restored.

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rev20
i am however putting myself above Jim Carroll LOL

A good number of men put themselves above Jim Carroll.

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rev20

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Stoneage
Are we supposed to feel sorry for the vagabond, millionaire womanizer? Bullocks...

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keithsman
Mick... would put the record straight if he thought keith was lying about
the way things happened.

I know Keith exaggerates, especially when drunk and his imagination gets the better of him lol, but fundamentally he is an honest guy, and so is Mick.

1) wow LOL i have gotten exactly nowhere with the ultra-orthodox

2) my only hope is that the great bulk of silent readers are at least reserving
judgement about Mick's situation with his women, especially currently, because
it is a very serious situation, and that most of you out there, please,
are, and will be, paying attention to the evidence that has been and will be leaking.

3) the only person that Mick has been almost always honest with is himself.
that is his moral code. the only person that Keith has been seriously
dishonest with is himself. just like most humans. which is why we love
keith so much, he's way more like us.

Sorry to continue off topic but feel compelled to reply.

I stand by Keith being a honest human being, just look at his family and friends and go on what people that know and meet him say about him.
Its all good all the time.
People that lie and cause trouble through jealousy usually get called out through life, what goes round comes round, i can't think of an instant where Keith has been caught out by an absolute outright lie. Yes he makes he's own reality and lets face it , Keith's reality is working just fine for him, i don't see him as a victim, yes the heroin got the better of him, it gets the better of everyone and he did what he needed to do in the end.

Sure he has an imagination and that is why he is a genius, just listening to him speak in interviews, just his conversation itself is creative, he takes you on a roller coaster ride, his emotions and feelings are very open, what you get is what you see to some extent, i don't think he ever really changed.

Also i'm not sure Keith is an alcoholic, like myself he seems to drop it when it suits him, he doesn't need rehab or any of that. I think he turned to drink in 07 for personal reasons that i won't go into here but through much of his life he's handled the drink very well.
He is always present when drinking, he is never totally out of it, that's because he loves life and he loves who he is.

I will admit he has changed recently, he really does seem to have grown up, he knows family is the most important thing in his life and i don't think he's faking it when he says he loves being with his grandchildren etc.

Yeah it all worked out perfectly for Keith, he didn't lose his beloved Rolling Stones, he didn't die, he didn't lose his creativity, he survived a hideous near fatal head injury and it gnarls at some people. He once said people wish bad health on you, he was at his Jamaican home View Point being interviewed by VH1 , and he was convinced that people wish bad health on him, i won't argue with that, every time a health nut gets really sick they say damn, Keith did everything wrong and he's in good health and i've been jogging and eating bananas and i get this.

Rev20 the topic that you are hinting about, just wanted to say i've known about that for a while , also wanted to say not many people impress me, but what you have to say and the way you say it, and where it comes from ( shining ) is great for this place and great as a whole.

I like the connotation coming from that shrink you talked about, that really hit home to me BTW.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-06 22:48 by keithsman.

>>she is obviously deserving of canonization

Yes indeed. Who knows what she might have achieved if she had conquered her demons and lived?

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Bliss
>>she is obviously deserving of canonization

Yes indeed. Who knows what she might have achieved if she had conquered her demons and lived?

Sorry but who is SHE ?

VOICES How A Great Singer Can Change Your Life - Nick Coleman -- Pages 90-91



ROCKMAN

Rockman how’d you get that book? Says not released until November 2018,
hmm...

Here is a review of ‘Voices’
[www.theguardian.com]

I have theeeeeee contacts ....



ROCKMAN

no no seriously 35 ....

I picked it up in a Melbourne book shop couple of days ago ...
interesting 14-15 page read on Mick ......



VOICES How A Great Singer Can Change Your Life - Nick Coleman



ROCKMAN

thanks keithsman. and since this is the "secrets" thread...

(how a great guitarist can change your life)

I was walking through the east village towards the subway,
but also towards death. my nerves on fire, obnoxiously listening
to the Pistols full blast on my little boombox. I was so messed
up that I would use the Pistols to calm down, when i didnt have any
of my calming-down agent of choice.

I had been to quite a few counselors but it was hopeless. actually
i thought they were hopeless. still do. maybe not for most people,
but the usual routine was not gonna work for me. i was too far gone.

somehow i knew i needed somebody to kick my ass. kick me in the head
rather. and that was a difficult ask. because i got this brain that
immediately figures out how to kick them in the head.

Still walking. aha! i see a prize! somebody has neatly laid a copy
of the NY Post on top of a trash bin. At least I'll have something
to read on the subway.

It wasnt that day's Post, it was yesterday's, but who wants it? Me.

Holy fcuk! Keith Richards on the front page! He had beaten the rap
in Toronto! God damn Keith was my hero. My way-favorite Stone since
1964. Maybe my only prized possession at that time was a fine print
of the famous Annie Leibowitz photo of 1972 Keith slumped out in the
chair, which I had purchased directly from Rolling Stone magazine,
and put into a battered antique frame. It didnt matter how much I needed
money, I never sold that. I would die before i sold that.

What the fcuk? The Post story read something like this at the end:
"Keith will continue receiving treatment at the Stevens Psychiatric
Center in Manhattan". What the fcuk? Fcuking Keith Richards is still
gonna see a shrink even after he beat the rap? You gotta be kidding me.

Next day I called up the Stevens Psychiatric Center. I was
shaking, I was so scared, and it took forever to get out the words.
"I saw Keith's story in the paper. I'm not, uh, uh, uh, functioning."

The lady on the other end, who turned out to be Dr. Stevens herself,
simply said, "3pm thursday" and hung up the phone...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-07 02:22 by rev20.

Thanks for that, Terry. I want Nick Coleman to interview Mick in 2018. That would be a great read.

Speaking of great reads, if you care to share more, revvy, please do so. When you're not feeling inhibited, your writing is a wonder to behold.

Pleasure Rocky ....

Richard Lloyd .......



ROCKMAN

...from Television?

Keith has been generous in his assessment of Jimmy Rip. I'm not so certain Richard Lloyd would feel the same.

He has a brilliant bit in his book about meeting the former Doris Richards who tells him Television will never be as big as her son's group. He agrees and tells her, “At the end of the day, Keith and I are organ grinders, and Keith has the best monkey.”

Not everyone can write so well as to boost themselves, take a zing at Mick, and express everything you could want to know without ever saying Tom Verlaine by name all in one line. Lovely stuff throughout.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-07 02:12 by Rocky Dijon.

ROCKMAN

Ha! See my post above yours!

>.. YEAH Bill .....

I did put up a bit about it in Connections some time ago ... [iorr.org]

Lurv ta hear -- Chucky No Looky .....



ROCKMAN

Quote
35love
Rockman how’d you get that book? Says not released until November 2018,
hmm...

Here is a review of ‘Voices’
[www.theguardian.com]

It is an interesting premise:
‘Nick Coleman realised he only wanted to hear voices that would “nourish and sustain” him, coming to terms with his own experience five years earlier of hearing loss.’

Frankie Beverly would be a grand choice (IMO)