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stanlove
I am amazed at how so many struggle with what happened there. On this thread people have got it wrong again. The thought of some of you people on a jury is scary. The evidence is clear

Here is what happened. The Hell's Angels roughed up Hunter for whatever reason. You can claim racism but there were other black guys there who did not get roughed up and there were white people who did. When the Angels started to rough up Hunter he pulled a gun to protect himself ...

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The Sicilian

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LeonidP

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Stoneage
Did The Stones actually hire Hells Angels for security? In that case (which I think was not the case...) The Stones are partially to blame.
In any case, the Hells Angel probably did the right thing to intervene. But not to stab him. He should have been sentenced for it. Manslaughter.

Even if the Stones hired them, I fail to see how that makes them partially to blame. You can hire anyone you want, there would be no way to predict in advance that the group would kill someone.

One person did it, he was to blame. Was it justified? That is what we may never know. The girl w/ Meredith could best answer that, what was happening right before the gun came out, were the Angels harassing him?

Has she ever made a public statement? What about any court transcripts?

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LeonidP

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stanlove
I am amazed at how so many struggle with what happened there. On this thread people have got it wrong again. The thought of some of you people on a jury is scary. The evidence is clear

Here is what happened. The Hell's Angels roughed up Hunter for whatever reason. You can claim racism but there were other black guys there who did not get roughed up and there were white people who did. When the Angels started to rough up Hunter he pulled a gun to protect himself ...

Well I'm not so sure that you have it right either. I've never read that they "roughed him up" before he pulled the gun. If you are using the video as evidence, all you can really tell is that there is some pushing going on, that doesn't imply they were roughing him up.

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oldschool

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Stoneage
I'm sure he could have taken him out without stabbing him. That's my view on the situation. I don't think the stabbing was called for.

I am not defending the stabbing only responding to your question if the Stones hired the Angels. Ronnie S. says no and explains the reasoning in his book.

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The Sicilian

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LeonidP

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Stoneage
Did The Stones actually hire Hells Angels for security? In that case (which I think was not the case...) The Stones are partially to blame.
In any case, the Hells Angel probably did the right thing to intervene. But not to stab him. He should have been sentenced for it. Manslaughter.

Even if the Stones hired them, I fail to see how that makes them partially to blame. You can hire anyone you want, there would be no way to predict in advance that the group would kill someone.

One person did it, he was to blame. Was it justified? That is what we may never know. The girl w/ Meredith could best answer that, what was happening right before the gun came out, were the Angels harassing him?

Has she ever made a public statement? What about any court transcripts?

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stanlove

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The Sicilian

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KevinLocksPerm

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The Sicilian
Hunter raised that gun pointed it at the stage, probably twice. The second time he was grabbed and attacked. When the Angel grabbed his arm he held on to it. Clearly he was trying to prevent a shooting. Hunter was no little guy either. Who was his target? I guess we'll never really know, but he was aiming toward the center of the stage from what I can see in the video.

Maybe if the Angels hadn't spent all day creating such a putrid atmosphere the situation might never have arisen. And shame on whoever thought the Angels were an acceptable security solution.

The whole event was a mistake but the defining mistake was hiring the Angels. All this ex post facto rationalisation of their presence and their conduct is rather distateful.

Rationalize this: even if the Angels weren't there, Hunter was still there in front of the stage with a concealed gun, not somewhere on a hill or way back in the crowd, but right at the stage. At some point the gun was out and aiming at the stage, not at an attacker in the crowd.

I am amazed at how so many struggle with what happened there. On this thread people have got it wrong again. The thought of some of you people on a jury is scary. The evidence is clear

Here is what happened. The Hell's Angels roughed up Hunter for whatever reason. You can claim racism but there were other black guys there who did not get roughed up and there were white people who did. When the Angels started to rough up Hunter he pulled a gun to protect himself from the Angels. Because he did that one of the Angles came over and stabbed him. The angel that stabbed him was not protecting the stage he was protecting the Angels that roughed Hunter up to begin with.

1- Are you a hero for stabbing a guy who pulled a gun on your friend because your friend had roughed him up?


2- The constant argument that he was pointing a gun at stage to shoot at someone is ridiculous and at this point actually pretty annoying. It's been half a century and people have not figured that out yet. For one thing he actually never did point at the stage. he pointed it towards the Angels. Even if you erase the Angles from the film then he still did not point it at the stage, he would have pointed it in front of the stage.

Do you people think he actually wanted to shoot at the stage but the Angles got to him before he could pull the trigger? How long does it take to pull a trigger. That theory is idiotic.

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LeonidP

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Stoneage
Did The Stones actually hire Hells Angels for security? In that case (which I think was not the case...) The Stones are partially to blame.
In any case, the Hells Angel probably did the right thing to intervene. But not to stab him. He should have been sentenced for it. Manslaughter.

Even if the Stones hired them, I fail to see how that makes them partially to blame. You can hire anyone you want, there would be no way to predict in advance that the group would kill someone.

One person did it, he was to blame. Was it justified? That is what we may never know. The girl w/ Meredith could best answer that, what was happening right before the gun came out, were the Angels harassing him?

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duke richardson

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stanlove

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The Sicilian

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KevinLocksPerm

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The Sicilian
Hunter raised that gun pointed it at the stage, probably twice. The second time he was grabbed and attacked. When the Angel grabbed his arm he held on to it. Clearly he was trying to prevent a shooting. Hunter was no little guy either. Who was his target? I guess we'll never really know, but he was aiming toward the center of the stage from what I can see in the video.

Maybe if the Angels hadn't spent all day creating such a putrid atmosphere the situation might never have arisen. And shame on whoever thought the Angels were an acceptable security solution.

The whole event was a mistake but the defining mistake was hiring the Angels. All this ex post facto rationalisation of their presence and their conduct is rather distateful.

Rationalize this: even if the Angels weren't there, Hunter was still there in front of the stage with a concealed gun, not somewhere on a hill or way back in the crowd, but right at the stage. At some point the gun was out and aiming at the stage, not at an attacker in the crowd.

I am amazed at how so many struggle with what happened there. On this thread people have got it wrong again. The thought of some of you people on a jury is scary. The evidence is clear

Here is what happened. The Hell's Angels roughed up Hunter for whatever reason. You can claim racism but there were other black guys there who did not get roughed up and there were white people who did. When the Angels started to rough up Hunter he pulled a gun to protect himself from the Angels. Because he did that one of the Angles came over and stabbed him. The angel that stabbed him was not protecting the stage he was protecting the Angels that roughed Hunter up to begin with.

1- Are you a hero for stabbing a guy who pulled a gun on your friend because your friend had roughed him up?


2- The constant argument that he was pointing a gun at stage to shoot at someone is ridiculous and at this point actually pretty annoying. It's been half a century and people have not figured that out yet. For one thing he actually never did point at the stage. he pointed it towards the Angels. Even if you erase the Angles from the film then he still did not point it at the stage, he would have pointed it in front of the stage.

Do you people think he actually wanted to shoot at the stage but the Angles got to him before he could pull the trigger? How long does it take to pull a trigger. That theory is idiotic.

ok this is what I've been wondering.

>>Here is what happened. The Hell's Angels roughed up Hunter for whatever reason<<

how do you know this, not trying to be contentious, just asking.

curt, in his above posts, says it was outright racism, and that several Hells Angels told him this, so Hunter was murdered, (according to curt) because the Angels were racists.

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stanlove

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The Sicilian

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LeonidP

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Stoneage
Did The Stones actually hire Hells Angels for security? In that case (which I think was not the case...) The Stones are partially to blame.
In any case, the Hells Angel probably did the right thing to intervene. But not to stab him. He should have been sentenced for it. Manslaughter.

Even if the Stones hired them, I fail to see how that makes them partially to blame. You can hire anyone you want, there would be no way to predict in advance that the group would kill someone.

One person did it, he was to blame. Was it justified? That is what we may never know. The girl w/ Meredith could best answer that, what was happening right before the gun came out, were the Angels harassing him?

Has she ever made a public statement? What about any court transcripts?

Yes the Angles roughed him up. Witnesses did say that.

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duke richardson

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stanlove

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The Sicilian

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KevinLocksPerm

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The Sicilian
Hunter raised that gun pointed it at the stage, probably twice. The second time he was grabbed and attacked. When the Angel grabbed his arm he held on to it. Clearly he was trying to prevent a shooting. Hunter was no little guy either. Who was his target? I guess we'll never really know, but he was aiming toward the center of the stage from what I can see in the video.

Maybe if the Angels hadn't spent all day creating such a putrid atmosphere the situation might never have arisen. And shame on whoever thought the Angels were an acceptable security solution.

The whole event was a mistake but the defining mistake was hiring the Angels. All this ex post facto rationalisation of their presence and their conduct is rather distateful.

Rationalize this: even if the Angels weren't there, Hunter was still there in front of the stage with a concealed gun, not somewhere on a hill or way back in the crowd, but right at the stage. At some point the gun was out and aiming at the stage, not at an attacker in the crowd.

I am amazed at how so many struggle with what happened there. On this thread people have got it wrong again. The thought of some of you people on a jury is scary. The evidence is clear

Here is what happened. The Hell's Angels roughed up Hunter for whatever reason. You can claim racism but there were other black guys there who did not get roughed up and there were white people who did. When the Angels started to rough up Hunter he pulled a gun to protect himself from the Angels. Because he did that one of the Angles came over and stabbed him. The angel that stabbed him was not protecting the stage he was protecting the Angels that roughed Hunter up to begin with.

1- Are you a hero for stabbing a guy who pulled a gun on your friend because your friend had roughed him up?


2- The constant argument that he was pointing a gun at stage to shoot at someone is ridiculous and at this point actually pretty annoying. It's been half a century and people have not figured that out yet. For one thing he actually never did point at the stage. he pointed it towards the Angels. Even if you erase the Angles from the film then he still did not point it at the stage, he would have pointed it in front of the stage.

Do you people think he actually wanted to shoot at the stage but the Angles got to him before he could pull the trigger? How long does it take to pull a trigger. That theory is idiotic.

ok this is what I've been wondering.

>>Here is what happened. The Hell's Angels roughed up Hunter for whatever reason<<

how do you know this, not trying to be contentious, just asking.

curt, in his above posts, says it was outright racism, and that several Hells Angels told him this, so Hunter was murdered, (according to curt) because the Angels were racists.

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LeonidP

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stanlove

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The Sicilian

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LeonidP

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Stoneage
Did The Stones actually hire Hells Angels for security? In that case (which I think was not the case...) The Stones are partially to blame.
In any case, the Hells Angel probably did the right thing to intervene. But not to stab him. He should have been sentenced for it. Manslaughter.

Even if the Stones hired them, I fail to see how that makes them partially to blame. You can hire anyone you want, there would be no way to predict in advance that the group would kill someone.

One person did it, he was to blame. Was it justified? That is what we may never know. The girl w/ Meredith could best answer that, what was happening right before the gun came out, were the Angels harassing him?

Has she ever made a public statement? What about any court transcripts?

Yes the Angles roughed him up. Witnesses did say that.

Witness statements are that they roughed him up, yes. But I've never read that they did that 'before' he pulled a gun. It may be that is what happened, I just never read that before.

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The Sicilian

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LeonidP

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stanlove
I am amazed at how so many struggle with what happened there. On this thread people have got it wrong again. The thought of some of you people on a jury is scary. The evidence is clear

Here is what happened. The Hell's Angels roughed up Hunter for whatever reason. You can claim racism but there were other black guys there who did not get roughed up and there were white people who did. When the Angels started to rough up Hunter he pulled a gun to protect himself ...

Well I'm not so sure that you have it right either. I've never read that they "roughed him up" before he pulled the gun. If you are using the video as evidence, all you can really tell is that there is some pushing going on, that doesn't imply they were roughing him up.

I agree. Then after watching the video you see Hunter stumble towards the stage, raise his arm and point the gun at the stage. If he was protecting himself from abuse on the ground then why didn't he point the gun at someone in the crowd. He clearly was aiming for the stage.

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stanlove

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LeonidP

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stanlove

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The Sicilian

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LeonidP

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Stoneage
Did The Stones actually hire Hells Angels for security? In that case (which I think was not the case...) The Stones are partially to blame.
In any case, the Hells Angel probably did the right thing to intervene. But not to stab him. He should have been sentenced for it. Manslaughter.

Even if the Stones hired them, I fail to see how that makes them partially to blame. You can hire anyone you want, there would be no way to predict in advance that the group would kill someone.

One person did it, he was to blame. Was it justified? That is what we may never know. The girl w/ Meredith could best answer that, what was happening right before the gun came out, were the Angels harassing him?

Has she ever made a public statement? What about any court transcripts?

Yes the Angles roughed him up. Witnesses did say that.

Witness statements are that they roughed him up, yes. But I've never read that they did that 'before' he pulled a gun. It may be that is what happened, I just never read that before.

Here you go.

[www.rollingstone.com]

[www.rollingstone.com]


Paul Cox who was standing next to Hunter testified to this.

Cox talked in tones so low they would have been inaudible without the microphone. He told how he saw Hunter standing on a box and blocking the view (they're getting so pushy). He said he saw an Angel "grab the side of his head and shake him": and that when Hunter shook loose, the Angel "hit him and threw him into the crowd.

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TheGreek
As I recall from the movie the Angels were roughing up anybody and everybody that even dared go near there bikes or path of there bikes . Real brilliant idea to hire a gang and pay them with BEER . The outcome was predictable that there would be chaos and mayhem .The documentary about the Grateful Dead that came out last year talked about the Angels and even Jerry said they were a real handful or something to that effect .I don't mean any disrespect towards the Angels as I grew up with and went to school with one and knew another one that was also a decent fellow and he was a decent enough fellow, but as far as providing concert security that is a whole other beast better left to actual professionals and there is the rub in what I believe happened because whoever it was that hired the Angels was cutting corners and buy cheap pay twice .

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curt
curt, in his above posts, says it was outright racism, and that several Hells Angels told him this, so Hunter was murdered, (according to curt) because the Angels were racists.


This inaccuracy needs correction. I never stated that any Hell's Angel told me that it was a matter of racism.

I merely indicated that I was well acquainted with the nature of the beast..

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mikehat
If you watch the film you can see a bunch of Angels on the stage who duck and hide as Hunter comes forward with the gun. I think they were the target, presumably for roughing him up earlier.

Jagger was the other side of the stage and was not the target.
Bill Wyman is the only Stone that can be seen during that moment until Keith walks over to see what's going on..

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The Sicilian

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mikehat
If you watch the film you can see a bunch of Angels on the stage who duck and hide as Hunter comes forward with the gun. I think they were the target, presumably for roughing him up earlier.

Jagger was the other side of the stage and was not the target.
Bill Wyman is the only Stone that can be seen during that moment until Keith walks over to see what's going on..

From the Rolling Stone article:

One Angel later told it this way to KSAN-FM: This black guy had come toward the stage and been pushed off by Angels. "He flipped over and he's got this revolver — it looked like a cannon. It was pointed right at me. I hit the deck and this gun was pointed right at Jagger." And then, according to this account, "everybody was on him and that was the last I seen of him . . . When it was all over, man, Jagger looks at me and says, 'why?' I says: 'I dunno, man, that's just the way people are.'"

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mikehat

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The Sicilian

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mikehat
If you watch the film you can see a bunch of Angels on the stage who duck and hide as Hunter comes forward with the gun. I think they were the target, presumably for roughing him up earlier.

Jagger was the other side of the stage and was not the target.
Bill Wyman is the only Stone that can be seen during that moment until Keith walks over to see what's going on..

From the Rolling Stone article:

One Angel later told it this way to KSAN-FM: This black guy had come toward the stage and been pushed off by Angels. "He flipped over and he's got this revolver — it looked like a cannon. It was pointed right at me. I hit the deck and this gun was pointed right at Jagger." And then, according to this account, "everybody was on him and that was the last I seen of him . . . When it was all over, man, Jagger looks at me and says, 'why?' I says: 'I dunno, man, that's just the way people are.'"

They film shows it slightly differently.

1:23:25...

[www.youtube.com]

When the Camera pulls out after the scuffle, you can see that Jagger is on the other side of the stage, nowhere near the action.

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stanlove

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mikehat

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The Sicilian

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mikehat
If you watch the film you can see a bunch of Angels on the stage who duck and hide as Hunter comes forward with the gun. I think they were the target, presumably for roughing him up earlier.

Jagger was the other side of the stage and was not the target.
Bill Wyman is the only Stone that can be seen during that moment until Keith walks over to see what's going on..

From the Rolling Stone article:

One Angel later told it this way to KSAN-FM: This black guy had come toward the stage and been pushed off by Angels. "He flipped over and he's got this revolver — it looked like a cannon. It was pointed right at me. I hit the deck and this gun was pointed right at Jagger." And then, according to this account, "everybody was on him and that was the last I seen of him . . . When it was all over, man, Jagger looks at me and says, 'why?' I says: 'I dunno, man, that's just the way people are.'"

They film shows it slightly differently.

1:23:25...

[www.youtube.com]

When the Camera pulls out after the scuffle, you can see that Jagger is on the other side of the stage, nowhere near the action.

Yes. That is just that one Angel's perception and he was clearly wrong. I have asked before and have never got anyone to point it out. At what point in the video is the gun pointed at the stage? I never saw it pointed at the stage.



There is a picture on google images that shows right when the trouble might have started with Hunter. It shows him next the stage and an Angel talking to him about about pushing or something. It doesn't look like a pleasant conversation. But who knows. I don't know how to post pictures.


[www.google.com]:

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mikehat

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stanlove

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mikehat

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The Sicilian

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mikehat
If you watch the film you can see a bunch of Angels on the stage who duck and hide as Hunter comes forward with the gun. I think they were the target, presumably for roughing him up earlier.

Jagger was the other side of the stage and was not the target.
Bill Wyman is the only Stone that can be seen during that moment until Keith walks over to see what's going on..

From the Rolling Stone article:

One Angel later told it this way to KSAN-FM: This black guy had come toward the stage and been pushed off by Angels. "He flipped over and he's got this revolver — it looked like a cannon. It was pointed right at me. I hit the deck and this gun was pointed right at Jagger." And then, according to this account, "everybody was on him and that was the last I seen of him . . . When it was all over, man, Jagger looks at me and says, 'why?' I says: 'I dunno, man, that's just the way people are.'"

They film shows it slightly differently.

1:23:25...

[www.youtube.com]

When the Camera pulls out after the scuffle, you can see that Jagger is on the other side of the stage, nowhere near the action.

Yes. That is just that one Angel's perception and he was clearly wrong. I have asked before and have never got anyone to point it out. At what point in the video is the gun pointed at the stage? I never saw it pointed at the stage.



There is a picture on google images that shows right when the trouble might have started with Hunter. It shows him next the stage and an Angel talking to him about about pushing or something. It doesn't look like a pleasant conversation. But who knows. I don't know how to post pictures.


[www.google.com]:

I agree.
The Stones were never the target. That's a fallacy made up by the angels.

Hunter got roughed up by Angels, came out waving a gun in the direction of Angels and got stabbed by an Angel. Jagger was nowhere near any of this.

Also worth noting, the guy in the glasses in that pic is one of the guys that ducks and hides when the gun first appears.

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TheGreek
One good thing if you can say this is that I believe the Stones organization got together and figured out how to provide security and how to protect the Stones from anything like this ever happening again .You have to admit that the Stones are very professional in how they organize every aspect of there production .

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stanlove

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TheGreek
One good thing if you can say this is that I believe the Stones organization got together and figured out how to provide security and how to protect the Stones from anything like this ever happening again .You have to admit that the Stones are very professional in how they organize every aspect of there production .

I saw Jagger say he learned never to put him into a situation again where he totally had no control.

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stanlove

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mikehat

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stanlove

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mikehat

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The Sicilian

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mikehat
If you watch the film you can see a bunch of Angels on the stage who duck and hide as Hunter comes forward with the gun. I think they were the target, presumably for roughing him up earlier.

Jagger was the other side of the stage and was not the target.
Bill Wyman is the only Stone that can be seen during that moment until Keith walks over to see what's going on..

From the Rolling Stone article:

One Angel later told it this way to KSAN-FM: This black guy had come toward the stage and been pushed off by Angels. "He flipped over and he's got this revolver — it looked like a cannon. It was pointed right at me. I hit the deck and this gun was pointed right at Jagger." And then, according to this account, "everybody was on him and that was the last I seen of him . . . When it was all over, man, Jagger looks at me and says, 'why?' I says: 'I dunno, man, that's just the way people are.'"

They film shows it slightly differently.

1:23:25...

[www.youtube.com]

When the Camera pulls out after the scuffle, you can see that Jagger is on the other side of the stage, nowhere near the action.

Yes. That is just that one Angel's perception and he was clearly wrong. I have asked before and have never got anyone to point it out. At what point in the video is the gun pointed at the stage? I never saw it pointed at the stage.



There is a picture on google images that shows right when the trouble might have started with Hunter. It shows him next the stage and an Angel talking to him about about pushing or something. It doesn't look like a pleasant conversation. But who knows. I don't know how to post pictures.


[www.google.com]:

I agree.
The Stones were never the target. That's a fallacy made up by the angels.

Hunter got roughed up by Angels, came out waving a gun in the direction of Angels and got stabbed by an Angel. Jagger was nowhere near any of this.

Also worth noting, the guy in the glasses in that pic is one of the guys that ducks and hides when the gun first appears.

The witness who said the Angles roughed up Hunter was reliable for a couple of reasons. I am pretty sure he testified before the Movie came out. He said that Hunter was near the stage when he got roughed up and the Angles threw him into the crowd on the right side. We see in the movie that all of a sudden he is not near the stage anymore and is in the crowd on the right side.

It would not make sense that Hunter if he wanted to shoot at the stage would be right near and in front of the stage, which we can see he was from the film, but then all of a sudden goes into the crowd and pulls his gun. That makes no sense at all. During the movie they show him in front of the stage shortly before it all happened and he still had his hat on. he made it all day with his hat then all of a sudden it is not on him when he pulls his gun. Obviously something happened to him before that.