It is very interesting to me that this thread has gone on 15 pages. The subject: "Is the Hell's Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a Hero?" in my mind is a no win argument. God forbid, had a shot been fired and/or connected with Mick Jagger or anyone else on the stage that dreadful day, we may all be praising the actions of that Hell's Angel for saving one of our beloved rock star celebrities from uncertain death (God I wish somebody was there in December 1980 to intervene and stop that madman Mark David Chapman from gunning down John Lennon). Just my two cents...

Quote
Sighunt

The subject: "Is the Hell's Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a Hero?" in my mind is a no win argument. God forbid, had a shot been fired and/or connected with Mick Jagger or anyone else on the stage that dreadful day, we may all be praising the actions of that Hell's Angel for saving one of our beloved rock star celebrities from uncertain death

What's the difference between a rock star and Meredith Hunter? They are equal. Fandom sucks sometimes. It's a no win argument indeed.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 00:21 by TheflyingDutchman.

Quote
TheflyingDutchman

Quote
Sighunt

The subject: "Is the Hell's Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a Hero?" in my mind is a no win argument. God forbid, had a shot been fired and/or connected with Mick Jagger or anyone else on the stage that dreadful day, we may all be praising the actions of that Hell's Angel for saving one of our beloved rock star celebrities from uncertain death

What's the difference between a rock star and Meredith Hunter? They are equal. Fandom sucks sometimes. It's a no win argument indeed.

Exactly. And because society at large tends to put celebrities on a pedestal (and I am just as guilty as the next person), had Mick Jagger been taken out that day in 1969, my shallow self would have viewed that Hell's Angel as a hero.

Quote
Sighunt

Quote
TheflyingDutchman

Quote
Sighunt

The subject: "Is the Hell's Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a Hero?" in my mind is a no win argument. God forbid, had a shot been fired and/or connected with Mick Jagger or anyone else on the stage that dreadful day, we may all be praising the actions of that Hell's Angel for saving one of our beloved rock star celebrities from uncertain death

What's the difference between a rock star and Meredith Hunter? They are equal. Fandom sucks sometimes. It's a no win argument indeed.

Exactly. And because society at large tends to put celebrities on a pedestal (and I am just as guilty as the next person), had Mick Jagger been taken out that day in 1969, my shallow self would have viewed that Hell's Angel as a hero.

Suits you.

Quote
Sighunt
It is very interesting to me that this thread has gone on 15 pages. The subject: "Is the Hell's Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a Hero?" in my mind is a no win argument. God forbid, had a shot been fired and/or connected with Mick Jagger or anyone else on the stage that dreadful day, we may all be praising the actions of that Hell's Angel for saving one of our beloved rock star celebrities from uncertain death (God I wish somebody was there in December 1980 to intervene and stop that madman Mark David Chapman from gunning down John Lennon). Just my two cents...

Somebody gets it.

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
Sighunt
It is very interesting to me that this thread has gone on 15 pages. The subject: "Is the Hell's Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a Hero?" in my mind is a no win argument. God forbid, had a shot been fired and/or connected with Mick Jagger or anyone else on the stage that dreadful day, we may all be praising the actions of that Hell's Angel for saving one of our beloved rock star celebrities from uncertain death (God I wish somebody was there in December 1980 to intervene and stop that madman Mark David Chapman from gunning down John Lennon). Just my two cents...

Somebody gets it.

Sicilian, you little rascal- are you being serious, or are you screwing with me (LOL)?

From IMDB:

Quote
IMDB

Meredith Hunter was born on October 24, 1951 in Alameda County, California, USA as Meredeith Curley Hunter. He died on December 6, 1969 in Altamont, California.

After viewing footage of the stabbing, police identified Alan Passaro, a local Hell's Angel, as the man who did the stabbing, arrested him and charged him with murder. At his trial, however, closer examination of the footage showed that Hunter had clearly pulled a gun toward the stage, before Passaro pulled his knife. Passaro was acquitted on grounds of self-defense.
He was the third of four children born to Altha May Anderson.

http://cemlurk.tumblr.com/post/86487238360/meredith-murdock-hunter-grave-altamont

"Meredith “Murdock” Hunter barely knew his Native American father, and was raised by his African-American mother Altha May Anderson and his older sister Dixie Ward. Ward’s husband died in an electrical accident a month before the Altamont Speedway Free Festival. "

"After his death, Murdock’s schizophrenic mother Altha suffered a nervous breakdown. Though she settled a wrongful death lawsuit with the Rolling Stones for $10,000, Hunter’s grave in Vallejo, California remained unmarked. Instead, Altha turned a spare bedroom into a graveyard of sorts for her dead children - she had fake grass and stepping stones, and filled the room with flowers and pictures of her children who had passed away. After years of being surrounded by death (two others died a few years before her), Altha herself passed away in the first decade of the 2000s."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 01:15 by Redhotcarpet.

Quote
LeonidP

Just because one doesn't think this is race related doesn't mean one doesn't take it seriously.

** and to further clarify, I am not one of those that doesn't think it was not related to race ... my point all along is that we don't know. I just don't get the jumping to conclusions on it and then being so sure that is the way it is, despite no evidence of it (except that he has been determined to be a scumbag hell's angel, which i guess makes him guilty).

The only jumping to conclusions seems to be the stance that no way it was in any way related to race.

Anyway, I agree with you that if not seeing the Meredith Hunter tragedy as race related that surely doesn't mean one is not taking racism seriously. There is no logical connection. To make it further, I don't think anyone here is any sort of racist. Or least I don't want to see such things here and to suggest anyone being anything like that. But what I do see occasionally is some sort of ignorance in regards to understanding the whole depthness of racism. The part of my post stanlove quoted is exactly a reaction to that - that of downplaying the whole significance of racism. To put it in other words: I don't see racism solely as a problem within a discourse, that is, just a matter of discussing the proper way of using words and arguments, throwing race cards or not, being politically incorrect or not, etc. but as a deep problem in a real world. I especially take the claim that it is racism if one sees 'all a white jury' not probably being just to Hunter - because, the argument goes, that is a generalization based on the race of these jurors - only as a play of words, and a sign of a person making that claim having no real understanding what racism in reality is - and in this case: were - all about. And thereby making the whole idea of racism obscure, with no real substance. Racism is a factual thing in the world, not just a play of words.

Since I've been here charged as 'obsessed with race angle', I need remind that initially the whole 'race angle', despite whatever anyone was here saying, did occur to me when I read some of those articles describing the trial process. In there I discovered a little detail which to me spoke volumes: that of none of Hunter's relatives and friends didn't enter the trial, because they felt their 'boy' have no any chance getting justice under those cirmustances. Was their worry (a black kid from a hood would not get a fair trail from an all a white jury) justified or not, is not relevant. What is relevant - and terrible - is that people were feeling like that back then. (To be fair, the things didn't look too promising for Passaro either, because, as he described, he felt that as a Hell's Angel he would seen as a "racist" and "nazi", and would be judged because of that, no matter what he did.)

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 02:35 by Doxa.

"Meredith Hunter was the third of four children born to an African-American woman named Altha May Anderson and her Native American partner Curley Hunter."

Sam Cutler - book

Quote
Sighunt
It is very interesting to me that this thread has gone on 15 pages. The subject: "Is the Hell's Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a Hero?" in my mind is a no win argument. God forbid, had a shot been fired and/or connected with Mick Jagger or anyone else on the stage that dreadful day, we may all be praising the actions of that Hell's Angel for saving one of our beloved rock star celebrities from uncertain death (God I wish somebody was there in December 1980 to intervene and stop that madman Mark David Chapman from gunning down John Lennon). Just my two cents...

To me it looks like that the value of the original post and its provocative question, was that of inspiring the discussion to cover the whole tragedy more profoundly. I can't recall that ever taking place here before to this extent.

I think the decisive turn took place when some people started to suggest that Passaro (had he be still alive) should sue the posters here for destroying his 'good name' (he was proved to be innocent in the court, after all). And at the same time, for these people, there was no problem for making analogies with the guy who died and Mark Chapman, as you do here. After that was clear that something dark was going on here, and the things took a bit more deeper and serious level of discussion than usually in a rock and roll band fan board.

That said, I am grateful for The Sicilian to start this thread and these 'pro Passaro' people here inspiring me to write, since I have never really taken the Hunter tragedy under the scrutiny before. It's been one of those episodes in the history of the Rolling Stones I have never been too comfortable with or having a strong opinion about. But it's done now, and I guess I really don't have much to add to what I have already said in the thread. But honestly, it was a bit ackward and perversive to watch the killing scene of GIMME SHELTER again and again, as my old lady let me know....

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 02:11 by Doxa.

This is certainly a debate that will rage on for many years and even more so as we approach the 50th anniversary of the concert event. Hopefully, we will get an official release by Stones of the show in its entirety, complete with all the restarts and banter. I especially would hope to see complete footage of the show including any new found footage and/or lost film.

As in the movie version of "Gimme Shelter," I feel like the scene in the end of the movie where the crowd is walking away from the long night in the early morning sunrise after the show is over and looking back and reflecting. I'm sure there will be more angles and views to digest and bring to discussion. A special thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion and to BV for letting us go at it and hash it out. 1969, what a year in music history.

"SAN FRANCISCO — 21-year-old Hell's Angel has been indicted for the murder of Meredith Hunter at the Rolling Stones' disastrous free concert at Altamont.

Alameda County District Attorney Lowell Jensen announced the March 24th arrest of Alan David Passaro, who was taken into custody at Soledad Prison, where he was already serving a term for grand theft and sale of grass. Jensen said Passaro was out on bail, awaiting trial on those charges, the day of the concert. He has since been transferred to the Alameda County Jail, where he is being held without bail on the murder charge.

Passaro has a long prison record dating back to 1963 in Antioch, when he was arrested for auto theft and sent to Juvenile Hall. He has been arrested six times in the past, four of them resulting in convictions. At the time of his arrest for murder, he was serving time for back-to-back convictions in June and July of 1969 in San Jose.

According to Alameda County Sheriff Lt. James Chisholm and Detective Sergeant Robert Donovan, their three-month investigation included interviews with more than 1000 people. The key evidence, they said, was footage by crews of the Maysles Brothers, who filmed the entire concert for their documentary on the Stones tour. Several crews had the murder on film.


At almost the same time as the Grand Jury indictment. San Francisco attorney Ephraim Margolin, who was representing the Hunter family in a possible lawsuit, pulled out of the case. Allan Brotsky, a member of attorney Charles Garry's law firm, is considering taking on the case for the Hunter family, who have yet to hear a word from the Stones or any of their representatives. (Garry is best known as the Black Panthers' attorney.)

There was some surprise at the indictment. Many say some sort of hands-off deal exists between the Alameda County Sheriffs and the Angels, and the manner in which the investigation dragged on seemed to indicate little was being done by the law. Now, there is speculation that more indictments may come down, since Hunter was brutally stomped before the actual knifing.

The Alameda County Coroner's report on Hunter, the 18-year-old Berkeley black who was one of four to die that dreary December 6th at Altamont Raceway, also confirms that he was beaten as well as stabbed. While the cause of death is listed as shock and hemorrhage due to multiple stab wounds, the report also lists no less than nine head abrasions large enough to be classed as wounds.

There are five stab wounds listed on the back of the body, nine on the head, and two on the neck. (The "wounds" listed on the arms and inside of the elbow are actually needle-marks, consistent with the finding of 1.0 MG% of methamphetamine in the urine and 0.1 MG% of amphetamine in the liver.)

"Shock and hemorrhage" means that blood flowed to one particular part of Hunter's body after he was stabbed, thereby causing what is known as "blood shock," or just "shock." This might not have been fatal but for the fact that the pulmonary artery, the one that supplies blood to the lungs, was severed by one of the stab wounds, thereby causing the hemorrhage. The viciousness of the knifing is best seen in the stab wounds themselves, which ranged from two and three-quarters to four and one-quarter inches in depth.

Forthcoming from Rolling Stone will be a new inquiry into many of the unanswered questions from Altamont. While much of what went on down there is still a mystery, some things have become more clear in the last four months.

This story is from the April 30th, 1970 issue of Rolling Stone."

This article gets into a bit of detail about some of the aspects of that day.

I will have a great deal more to speak about on this topic but for the moment I will only add this:

The Rolling Stones got caught between a rock and a hard place that day.
The "rock" being American greed and the "hard place" being American violence.

No mention of the loaded gun in the air in that article. Hence the scene in GS with Mick narrating the killing. They were being sued.

During that terrible show, the Stones succeed to end the show even if they had to stop twice.I'm still wonderin'how they could have played with the mayhem.
Guess that if they had stopped, it would have been even worst.
Scary when you think of it.

HMN

Quote
Redhotcarpet
No mention of the loaded gun in the air in that article. Hence the scene in GS with Mick narrating the killing. They were being sued.

A lotta law suits were initiated vis a vis this incident.

Most odd among them would be Belli representing Passaro against the Maysles.

Quote
curt
"SAN FRANCISCO — 21-year-old Hell's Angel has been indicted for the murder of Meredith Hunter at the Rolling Stones' disastrous free concert at Altamont.

Alameda County District Attorney Lowell Jensen announced the March 24th arrest of Alan David Passaro, who was taken into custody at Soledad Prison, where he was already serving a term for grand theft and sale of grass. Jensen said Passaro was out on bail, awaiting trial on those charges, the day of the concert. He has since been transferred to the Alameda County Jail, where he is being held without bail on the murder charge.

Passaro has a long prison record dating back to 1963 in Antioch, when he was arrested for auto theft and sent to Juvenile Hall. He has been arrested six times in the past, four of them resulting in convictions. At the time of his arrest for murder, he was serving time for back-to-back convictions in June and July of 1969 in San Jose.

According to Alameda County Sheriff Lt. James Chisholm and Detective Sergeant Robert Donovan, their three-month investigation included interviews with more than 1000 people. The key evidence, they said, was footage by crews of the Maysles Brothers, who filmed the entire concert for their documentary on the Stones tour. Several crews had the murder on film.


At almost the same time as the Grand Jury indictment. San Francisco attorney Ephraim Margolin, who was representing the Hunter family in a possible lawsuit, pulled out of the case. Allan Brotsky, a member of attorney Charles Garry's law firm, is considering taking on the case for the Hunter family, who have yet to hear a word from the Stones or any of their representatives. (Garry is best known as the Black Panthers' attorney.)

There was some surprise at the indictment. Many say some sort of hands-off deal exists between the Alameda County Sheriffs and the Angels, and the manner in which the investigation dragged on seemed to indicate little was being done by the law. Now, there is speculation that more indictments may come down, since Hunter was brutally stomped before the actual knifing.

The Alameda County Coroner's report on Hunter, the 18-year-old Berkeley black who was one of four to die that dreary December 6th at Altamont Raceway, also confirms that he was beaten as well as stabbed. While the cause of death is listed as shock and hemorrhage due to multiple stab wounds, the report also lists no less than nine head abrasions large enough to be classed as wounds.

There are five stab wounds listed on the back of the body, nine on the head, and two on the neck. (The "wounds" listed on the arms and inside of the elbow are actually needle-marks, consistent with the finding of 1.0 MG% of methamphetamine in the urine and 0.1 MG% of amphetamine in the liver.)

"Shock and hemorrhage" means that blood flowed to one particular part of Hunter's body after he was stabbed, thereby causing what is known as "blood shock," or just "shock." This might not have been fatal but for the fact that the pulmonary artery, the one that supplies blood to the lungs, was severed by one of the stab wounds, thereby causing the hemorrhage. The viciousness of the knifing is best seen in the stab wounds themselves, which ranged from two and three-quarters to four and one-quarter inches in depth.

Forthcoming from Rolling Stone will be a new inquiry into many of the unanswered questions from Altamont. While much of what went on down there is still a mystery, some things have become more clear in the last four months.

This story is from the April 30th, 1970 issue of Rolling Stone."

This article gets into a bit of detail about some of the aspects of that day.

I will have a great deal more to speak about on this topic but for the moment I will only add this:

The Rolling Stones got caught between a rock and a hard place that day.
The "rock" being American greed and the "hard place" being American violence.

I know Passaro also went to jail in 1980 and got out in 1984 and then died in 1985. He was bad news no doubt.

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt

I will have a great deal more to speak about on this topic but for the moment I will only add this:

The Rolling Stones got caught between a rock and a hard place that day.
The "rock" being American greed and the "hard place" being American violence.

I know Passaro also went to jail in 1980 and got out in 1984 and then died in 1985. He was bad news no doubt.

A bit ironic that one of the beefs he went down for was all about a meth lab wasn't it ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 17:44 by curt.

Quote
The Sicilian
This is certainly a debate that will rage on for many years and even more so as we approach the 50th anniversary of the concert event. Hopefully, we will get an official release by Stones of the show in its entirety, complete with all the restarts and banter. I especially would hope to see complete footage of the show including any new found footage and/or lost film.

As in the movie version of "Gimme Shelter," I feel like the scene in the end of the movie where the crowd is walking away from the long night in the early morning sunrise after the show is over and looking back and reflecting. I'm sure there will be more angles and views to digest and bring to discussion. A special thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion and to BV for letting us go at it and hash it out. 1969, what a year in music history.

An official release ? God no. Why? Totally unnecessary. And it will only serve to to perpetuate this Hells Angels mastabatory adulation. Yuck.

Was Hunter a Innocent bystander? Apparently he had a short fuse, was armed and dangerous!
Wonder what was going on in the hour or so before his death? Was he being disruptive to those around him? Was he previously known by the Angels?
Why did he separate from Patti as the Stones were playing - pictures of him moving toward the stage. Was he on the stage and told to get off and then pushed off? Maybe that set him off.
I doubt the Angels decided to get racial with him while the Stones were playing and there were hundreds of other people right in front of the stage!


From Sam Culter's book - You Can't Always Get What You Want. His name

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
The Sicilian
This is certainly a debate that will rage on for many years and even more so as we approach the 50th anniversary of the concert event. Hopefully, we will get an official release by Stones of the show in its entirety, complete with all the restarts and banter. I especially would hope to see complete footage of the show including any new found footage and/or lost film.

As in the movie version of "Gimme Shelter," I feel like the scene in the end of the movie where the crowd is walking away from the long night in the early morning sunrise after the show is over and looking back and reflecting. I'm sure there will be more angles and views to digest and bring to discussion. A special thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion and to BV for letting us go at it and hash it out. 1969, what a year in music history.

An official release ? God no. Why? Totally unnecessary. And it will only serve to to perpetuate this Hells Angels mastabatory adulation. Yuck.

You don't have to buy it, but a lot of us will. Musically, it was a great show even with the problems. One of the best of the 1969 tour, and the last.

Quote
2000 LYFH
Was Hunter a Innocent bystander? Apparently he had a short fuse, was armed and dangerous!
Wonder what was going on in the hour or so before his death? Was he being disruptive to those around him? Was he previously known by the Angels?
Why did he separate from Patti as the Stones were playing - pictures of him moving toward the stage. Was he on the stage and told to get off and then pushed off? Maybe that set him off.
I doubt the Angels decided to get racial with him while the Stones were playing and there were hundreds of other people right in front of the stage!


From Sam Culter's book - You Can't Always Get What You Want. His name

So two criminals got into a fight and one of them pulled a gun and the other a knife.

"At almost the same time as the Grand Jury indictment. San Francisco attorney Ephraim Margolin, who was representing the Hunter family in a possible lawsuit, pulled out of the case. "


Wonder why Margolin pulled out of the case?
Maybe with all the details of the commotion surrounding the event, the background of Hunter, along with the footage of Hunter with a gun, he changed his mind?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 20:14 by Hairball.

At least those 2 guys have been reunited where they do belong.
6 feet down.

In 1995, Jagger commented on Hunter's death
in an interview with Rolling Stone magazine publisher Jann Wenner, who asked:

"After the concert itself, when it became apparent that somebody got killed, how did you feel?"

Jagger replied : "Well, awful. I mean, just awful. You feel a responsibility. How could it all have been so silly and wrong? But I didn't think of these things that you guys thought of, you in the press: this great loss of innocence, this cathartic end of the era ... I didn't think of any of that. That particular burden didn't weigh on my mind. It was more how awful it was to have had this experience and how awful it was for someone to get killed..."

HMN

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
The Sicilian
This is certainly a debate that will rage on for many years and even more so as we approach the 50th anniversary of the concert event. Hopefully, we will get an official release by Stones of the show in its entirety, complete with all the restarts and banter. I especially would hope to see complete footage of the show including any new found footage and/or lost film.

As in the movie version of "Gimme Shelter," I feel like the scene in the end of the movie where the crowd is walking away from the long night in the early morning sunrise after the show is over and looking back and reflecting. I'm sure there will be more angles and views to digest and bring to discussion. A special thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion and to BV for letting us go at it and hash it out. 1969, what a year in music history.

An official release ? God no. Why? Totally unnecessary. And it will only serve to to perpetuate this Hells Angels mastabatory adulation. Yuck.

You don't have to buy it, but a lot of us will. Musically, it was a great show even with the problems. One of the best of the 1969 tour, and the last.

Perhaps they could include Hunter Meredith’s autopsy notes or some genuine Hells Angel pubic hair as extras with the package.

Then you could really get your rocks off

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
The Sicilian
This is certainly a debate that will rage on for many years and even more so as we approach the 50th anniversary of the concert event. Hopefully, we will get an official release by Stones of the show in its entirety, complete with all the restarts and banter. I especially would hope to see complete footage of the show including any new found footage and/or lost film.

As in the movie version of "Gimme Shelter," I feel like the scene in the end of the movie where the crowd is walking away from the long night in the early morning sunrise after the show is over and looking back and reflecting. I'm sure there will be more angles and views to digest and bring to discussion. A special thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion and to BV for letting us go at it and hash it out. 1969, what a year in music history.

An official release ? God no. Why? Totally unnecessary. And it will only serve to to perpetuate this Hells Angels mastabatory adulation. Yuck.

You don't have to buy it, but a lot of us will. Musically, it was a great show even with the problems. One of the best of the 1969 tour, and the last.

Perhaps they could include Hunter Meredith’s autopsy notes or some genuine Hells Angel pubic hair as extras with the package.

Then you could really get your rocks off

My God.



I would love to see the remainder of the video released from Altamonte. I hope that happens some day.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
LeonidP

Just because one doesn't think this is race related doesn't mean one doesn't take it seriously.

** and to further clarify, I am not one of those that doesn't think it was not related to race ... my point all along is that we don't know. I just don't get the jumping to conclusions on it and then being so sure that is the way it is, despite no evidence of it (except that he has been determined to be a scumbag hell's angel, which i guess makes him guilty).

The only jumping to conclusions seems to be the stance that no way it was in any way related to race.

...

Wow, you continue to befuddle me. So with no proof, then not being certain it was racism is "jumping to conclusions"? Sorry but with no proof and being certain it was racism is "jumping to conclusions", whether you can see that or not.

It could have been, no denying that, but a 'scumbag and Hells Angel' is not enough to make that leap to racism as far as I am concerned.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
stanlove
You are all about race period and you have an agenda.

Yep. It could be that I take racism more seriously than you do.

- Doxa

Virtue signaling?

Or it could be that I believe that it makes no sense harping on race when you can't even be sure that it had anything to do with race. I think the less harping on race ( unless something is proven to be racial ) would serve everyone well. That goes for many different situations including this one.



I don't think anyone on this board ruled out that it might have had something to do with race. I think the better argument was that it did not. But who knows.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-16 07:21 by stanlove.

The guy pulled a gun, wouldn't have mattered if he was black, blue, white or purple, he paid the ultimate price for the brandishing.

It's also clear that the killer was a violent Hell's angel and a full fledge scumbag. As offended as some may find that characterization, he proved it to be true, not just that fateful evening, but throughout his whole life.

Was racism a factor?
Could have been. No one really knows what triggered the guy. Fair to say that even if he was physically or verbally assaulted because of his race (white girlfriend, choice of clothes, etc. as we've seen here) he was solely responsible once he pulled a gun. A lot of people were assaulted who didn't retaliate with a weapon, and they lived.

Hero status for the killer?
Not a chance. I'd go so far as to speculate that he likely could have secured the weapon, and taken the guy down without the overkill from him and his fellow Hell's Angels/Scumbags. Perhaps with the guy on the ground with just the one stab wound and detained, he may have lived.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-16 05:14 by MisterDDDD.