Tell Me :
Talk
Reading through some of the comments in the findagrave memorial link, and found this bit of unintentionally twisted irony:
"Rest in peace young man. Flying forever with the angels".
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Even if it was a "heroic act" that potentially saved anyone's life, it doesn't make the guy a "hero". Semantics maybe, but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with. Stupid move on behalf of the deceased, which he is responsible for, but the thug who killed him was no "hero". Like crediting a drunk driver as a hero who slams his car into a tree and then pulls his passenger to safety before the car blows.
Sure, here.. [iorr.org]
Read the thread, watch the clips. Remember I said part of the reason.
Turns out he was a Hell's Angel.
Who had been bashing heads/inciting violence and causing mayhem all day. You'll also learn he later died while likely running from someone and had a load of cash on him etc. Like I said, a real scumbag thug, seems obvious.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 05:07 by MisterDDDD.
I can't see that Hunter tried to shoot him. Rather, it looked like he wanted to scare him off.
A foolish move.
You're judging him on the incident based on his associate w/ the group ... sorry can't do that. You have no idea that he did something that caused the dude to pull a gun but you are stating it that is is most likely ...why?
Sure I can. Just did.
Saying you can't judge a literal gang member who's right up front in the thick of things where they are so violent many of the performers are pleading with them to stop (Grace Slick, Mick, Keith, many more) is frankly absurd. Even in a court of law, when you rob a store and your buddy kills a guy in the process you can be held responsible, surely here in the court of public opinion, the same principal can be applied.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 20:25 by MisterDDDD.
I'm with MrDDDD's logic on this and think his original "scumbag" post is probably one of the best in this entire thread. At least for my thoughts and point of view.
Although I'm a bit late: Well said MisterDDDD.
Peace,
Mr DJA
+1
No you can't. The court has to consider every case independently and that's why the acquitted Passaro. It was Passaro who knifed Hunter, no one else. It was Hunter who prior to that pulled out a loaded gun and pointed it at the stage or at least in some direction - theres a real chance he might have fired it and actually hit someone.
The court didnt acquit the other Angels because they werent charged. Their behavior should have been reported and they whould have been prosecuted though. Had the case been about Passaro selling drugs, yes, then the Angels could have been prosecuted as a group.
Did Mrs Hunter try to make this into a civil law suit?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 23:21 by Redhotcarpet.
We agree. Not saying the self defense ruling wasn't accurate.
Just replying to the original question as to whether he was a "hero".
Just as that question wasn't part of any legal proceedings,the answer (opinion) shouldn't be held to a legal standard either. All opinion at this point.
Mine is clearly he was no hero.
Can't have it both ways.
Well I guess you will say that you just did again, but that says a lot about your arguments, etc.
Actually, I haven't mentioned and honestly don't believe race played a factor in the killing. Not sure what your motive is for sticking up for the obvious thug, including making up what you think others believe, what they really think etc.
Others expressing their opinions on it, if it differs from yours or is rational, seems to be a real trigger for you. As you say, it says a lot about you.
Learned a while back debating with someone who just wants to be contrary is futile. Carry on.
With this I agree: we don't know if race had anything to do with it (though I wouldn't be sure that we 'know' other blacks near the stage to be 'doing just fine' - probably so if the criterion 'doing just fine' is 'not to be killed').
However, from acknowledging the limits of our knowledge, we seem draw different morals from it. For you it seems like even suggesting the possible racist motive is strictly forbidden. For me that still sounds as a possible and even rational way to explain some of the things that were going there. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't see this as some sort of 'court room case' - when the question of providing the evidence and all that is fundamental. For me trying to make sense of it is in order to understand what was going on, is more a work of a historian or a moral philosopher than that of lawyer. To say it differently, I am more interested in 'truth' than of 'evidence', the latter being a necessary but not a sufficient reason for the former.
- Doxa
You seemingly missed the 'ifs' in my post - the whole idea of that passage was that of describing rather generally and loosely the context from where the supposed racism charge comes from (no matter what opinion we might have of its validity). Anyway, if "a gang of white guys not much known for their tolerant opinions" is "convicting the group" I can only wonder from where this over-sensitivity from your side derives from. Something clearly hitting hard home there if such a harmless remark about the Hells Angels in general hurts so much. Besides, I wasn't talking about Passaro in particular at all. You seemingly put something into my mouth that isn't there.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 14:00 by Doxa.
Well, I have gotten the impression that those strongly sticking to the evidence of that a few sec footage - like Passaro's defence team, rightly, did in the court - and denying the chance of something else having a role there, is like a case of criminals knowing that the evidence to convict them wouldn't be good enough in the court room, no matter how quilty they in reality are. So all there is for them to do is just point out to the technical evidence and ignore all the rest. And laugh all the way to freedom... I don't know from where this kind of mentality or motivation - only evidence matter, never mind the truth - derives from: is it a cold-hearted lawyer-like purism to acknowledge nothing but non-disputed evidence and disqualify anything else. Or is it more like that of using the sort of adventage they have here ('evidence' works for them beautifully in this case) in order to clear the name of Passaro and The Angels against any possible charges towards their doings at Altamont (or in general). Or is it - like I suggested earlier - the Altamont tragedy being nothing but a suitable target to project and think aloud stances in today's political world (including attitude towards racism, etc.). What I find odd with these people is the lack of any empathy towards Hunter, his family, or anyone beaten up at Altamont. Frightening.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 14:42 by Doxa.
Well, at least you showed your stance pretty well. It is "these people" that you have a beef with, and anything you wrote here about the things happened almost 50 years ago, stems from the motivation to show how wrong "these people" - and supposedly their misuse of the so called 'race card' - today are. Good luck with that agenda.
Thank you for being frank.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 19:34 by Doxa.
You just can't give up. You are obsessed with making this about race and anyone who won't go along with your game is wrong. I can only imagine the amount of times you throw the word racism around., Like I said before someone like you is an irresitable force.
My stance is simple. If there is no proof of racism than someone should not claim as a fact that racism was the cause. People who do that are a problem.
Could this maybe have had something to do with race? Of course but nobody knows. You are the one showing your true colors by forcing the issue when you ant know if it was an issue here. In other words you are not rational and you are the problem. You are the one with an agenda and it is obvious. Good luck with that.
One question for you. IS there any chance at all that Hunter's death had nothiong to do with race?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 21:01 by stanlove.
Yes, there is. If you have had just followed the discussion here and tried to read mine or some other people's comments a bit more carefully, that wouldn't have come to you as any surprise (and for you no reason to even ask it now). But no, it is much easier to dismiss the course of a rational, civic discussion by not even trying to understand the others have to say. It is much easier just talk from the base on prejudices about "someone like you" (me, that is). As I can see, you are not talking to some real people here, but to some of your own ghosts or products of your own imagination. Nothing wrong with that, but it is pretty hard for me to talk on behalf of those ghosts..
Besides, I don't have any problem in "showing my true colors". I have nothing to hide. Do you?
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 21:36 by Doxa.
I don't know enough about the gang to know they are known for not having tolerant opinions. I haven't read anything to that effect. All I read about them is they don't take lightly when someone messes w/ their bikes. The 'not being tolerant' of opinions applies more here it seems to me, check out MisterDB as an example.
So now he hints ( he will probably try to deny ? that I am a racist. I did read through the thread and you are obsessed with the race angle despite the fact that nobody on here knows if it had anything to do with race.
No I ave no problems showing my true colors. Again my true colors are clear. If someone doesn't have evidence of racism then they should stop trying to argue that it is racism. Pretty simple really.
You are the one who got into the whole things about right singers and things like that. You have been pushing from the start.
You posted this. You are all about race period and you have an agenda.
The point of this talk is relativize the whole idea and reality of racism - by making it such a formal notion, it loses its substantive significance - the whole history and reference doesn't really matter anymore. Its scope and extension being a rather trivial issue, applying anywhere. Then we have absurd - but technically/semantically 'right' - claims like saying 'all a white jury might not have being totally just for a black kid in 1969' is actually a racist claim against these white jurors. I guess by that logic when Meredith Hunter's relatives didn't attend the trail back then because they thought they son will not get justice, they - Meredith's relatives - were 'racists'. I wonder if any of you self-claimed 'non-racists' here, by the trivial definition of the term, would have a nerve or guts or human decency to say that to their faces.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 22:06 by stanlove.
Yep. It could be that I take racism more seriously than you do.
- Doxa
Just because one doesn't think this is race related doesn't mean one doesn't take it seriously.
** and to further clarify, I am not one of those that doesn't think it was not related to race ... my point all along is that we don't know. I just don't get the jumping to conclusions on it and then being so sure that is the way it is, despite no evidence of it (except that he has been determined to be a scumbag hell's angel, which i guess makes him guilty).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 23:24 by LeonidP.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 12, 2018 20:20
Quote
Redhotcarpet
https://dangerousminds.net/comments/who_was_meredith_hunter_the_young_man_stabbed_to_death_at_altamont
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Meredith_Hunter
video: [youtu.be] Short film about MH and his grave.
Edit: read yhe comments on the film.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/13855749/meredith-curly-hunter
Reading through some of the comments in the findagrave memorial link, and found this bit of unintentionally twisted irony:
"Rest in peace young man. Flying forever with the angels".
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: April 12, 2018 21:53
Quote
The Sicilian
As bad as the Hells Angels were on that night—and they were bad—the Angel who took out Meredith Hunter did exactly what a security professional is supposed to do in a life threatening situation. Not only did the Angel put him down, he lunged at Hunter and grabbed his arm first with the gun pointing towards the stage and secured him before the knife attack. Hunter was clearly intent on firing that weapon at someone on stage. It appeared to be in the direction of Jagger. It was an unfortunate situation, but the quick response by the Angel may have saved the life of Stone. He may have already fired the gun. I'm convinced the Angel intervention was a heroic one. Forget everything else about the bad behavior at the show and watch the video at the end and see what conclusion you come to.
Even if it was a "heroic act" that potentially saved anyone's life, it doesn't make the guy a "hero". Semantics maybe, but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with. Stupid move on behalf of the deceased, which he is responsible for, but the thug who killed him was no "hero". Like crediting a drunk driver as a hero who slams his car into a tree and then pulls his passenger to safety before the car blows.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 13, 2018 04:31
Cool, so there is new evidence that shows this guy was the reason? Certainly you wouldn't just make that part up, please post the link.Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
The Sicilian
As bad as the Hells Angels were on that night—and they were bad—the Angel who took out Meredith Hunter did exactly what a security professional is supposed to do in a life threatening situation. Not only did the Angel put him down, he lunged at Hunter and grabbed his arm first with the gun pointing towards the stage and secured him before the knife attack. Hunter was clearly intent on firing that weapon at someone on stage. It appeared to be in the direction of Jagger. It was an unfortunate situation, but the quick response by the Angel may have saved the life of Stone. He may have already fired the gun. I'm convinced the Angel intervention was a heroic one. Forget everything else about the bad behavior at the show and watch the video at the end and see what conclusion you come to.
... but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with...
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: April 13, 2018 05:04
Quote
LeonidPCool, so there is new evidence that shows this guy was the reason? Certainly you wouldn't just make that part up, please post the link.Quote
MisterDDDD
... but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with...
Sure, here.. [iorr.org]
Read the thread, watch the clips. Remember I said part of the reason.
Turns out he was a Hell's Angel.
Who had been bashing heads/inciting violence and causing mayhem all day. You'll also learn he later died while likely running from someone and had a load of cash on him etc. Like I said, a real scumbag thug, seems obvious.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 05:07 by MisterDDDD.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 13, 2018 12:15
Yes but Hunter didnt pull out a loaded gun because of what went on earlier that day. He and the Angels/some Angel had a situation. My guess is that somebody said something/pushed him/hit him/other, and thats when he pulled the gun and tried to shoot the Angel.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 13, 2018 12:29
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Yes but Hunter didnt pull out a loaded gun because of what went on earlier that day. He and the Angels/some Angel had a situation. My guess is that somebody said something/pushed him/hit him/other, and thats when he pulled the gun and tried to shoot the Angel.
I can't see that Hunter tried to shoot him. Rather, it looked like he wanted to scare him off.
A foolish move.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 13, 2018 19:15
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPCool, so there is new evidence that shows this guy was the reason? Certainly you wouldn't just make that part up, please post the link.Quote
MisterDDDD
... but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with...
Sure, here.. [iorr.org]
Read the thread, watch the clips. Remember I said part of the reason.
Turns out he was a Hell's Angel.
Who had been bashing heads/inciting violence and causing mayhem all day. You'll also learn he later died while likely running from someone and had a load of cash on him etc. Like I said, a real scumbag thug, seems obvious.
You're judging him on the incident based on his associate w/ the group ... sorry can't do that. You have no idea that he did something that caused the dude to pull a gun but you are stating it that is is most likely ...why?
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
KevinLocksPerm
()
Date: April 13, 2018 19:58
To be honest I think the original poster is what's known as a WUM.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: April 13, 2018 20:20
Quote
LeonidPQuote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPCool, so there is new evidence that shows this guy was the reason? Certainly you wouldn't just make that part up, please post the link.Quote
MisterDDDD
... but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with...
Sure, here.. [iorr.org]
Read the thread, watch the clips. Remember I said part of the reason.
Turns out he was a Hell's Angel.
Who had been bashing heads/inciting violence and causing mayhem all day. You'll also learn he later died while likely running from someone and had a load of cash on him etc. Like I said, a real scumbag thug, seems obvious.
You're judging him on the incident based on his associate w/ the group ... sorry can't do that. You have no idea that he did something that caused the dude to pull a gun but you are stating it that is is most likely ...why?
Sure I can. Just did.
Saying you can't judge a literal gang member who's right up front in the thick of things where they are so violent many of the performers are pleading with them to stop (Grace Slick, Mick, Keith, many more) is frankly absurd. Even in a court of law, when you rob a store and your buddy kills a guy in the process you can be held responsible, surely here in the court of public opinion, the same principal can be applied.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 20:25 by MisterDDDD.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
mr_dja
()
Date: April 13, 2018 20:52
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPQuote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPCool, so there is new evidence that shows this guy was the reason? Certainly you wouldn't just make that part up, please post the link.Quote
MisterDDDD
... but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with...
Sure, here.. [iorr.org]
Read the thread, watch the clips. Remember I said part of the reason.
Turns out he was a Hell's Angel.
Who had been bashing heads/inciting violence and causing mayhem all day. You'll also learn he later died while likely running from someone and had a load of cash on him etc. Like I said, a real scumbag thug, seems obvious.
You're judging him on the incident based on his associate w/ the group ... sorry can't do that. You have no idea that he did something that caused the dude to pull a gun but you are stating it that is is most likely ...why?
Sure I can. Just did.
Saying you can't judge a literal gang member who's right up front in the thick of things where they are so violent many of the performers are pleading with them to stop (Grace Slick, Mick, Keith, many more) is frankly absurd. Even in a court of law, when you rob a store and your buddy kills a guy in the process you can be held responsible, surely here in the court of public opinion, the same principal can be applied.
I'm with MrDDDD's logic on this and think his original "scumbag" post is probably one of the best in this entire thread. At least for my thoughts and point of view.
Although I'm a bit late: Well said MisterDDDD.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: April 13, 2018 21:05
Thanks, Mr DJA.
Appreciate it.
Appreciate it.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 13, 2018 21:05
Quote
mr_djaQuote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPQuote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPCool, so there is new evidence that shows this guy was the reason? Certainly you wouldn't just make that part up, please post the link.Quote
MisterDDDD
... but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with...
Sure, here.. [iorr.org]
Read the thread, watch the clips. Remember I said part of the reason.
Turns out he was a Hell's Angel.
Who had been bashing heads/inciting violence and causing mayhem all day. You'll also learn he later died while likely running from someone and had a load of cash on him etc. Like I said, a real scumbag thug, seems obvious.
You're judging him on the incident based on his associate w/ the group ... sorry can't do that. You have no idea that he did something that caused the dude to pull a gun but you are stating it that is is most likely ...why?
Sure I can. Just did.
Saying you can't judge a literal gang member who's right up front in the thick of things where they are so violent many of the performers are pleading with them to stop (Grace Slick, Mick, Keith, many more) is frankly absurd. Even in a court of law, when you rob a store and your buddy kills a guy in the process you can be held responsible, surely here in the court of public opinion, the same principal can be applied.
I'm with MrDDDD's logic on this and think his original "scumbag" post is probably one of the best in this entire thread. At least for my thoughts and point of view.
Although I'm a bit late: Well said MisterDDDD.
Peace,
Mr DJA
+1
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 13, 2018 21:25
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPQuote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPCool, so there is new evidence that shows this guy was the reason? Certainly you wouldn't just make that part up, please post the link.Quote
MisterDDDD
... but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with...
Sure, here.. [iorr.org]
Read the thread, watch the clips. Remember I said part of the reason.
Turns out he was a Hell's Angel.
Who had been bashing heads/inciting violence and causing mayhem all day. You'll also learn he later died while likely running from someone and had a load of cash on him etc. Like I said, a real scumbag thug, seems obvious.
You're judging him on the incident based on his associate w/ the group ... sorry can't do that. You have no idea that he did something that caused the dude to pull a gun but you are stating it that is is most likely ...why?
Sure I can. Just did.
Saying you can't judge a literal gang member who's right up front in the thick of things where they are so violent many of the performers are pleading with them to stop (Grace Slick, Mick, Keith, many more) is frankly absurd. Even in a court of law, when you rob a store and your buddy kills a guy in the process you can be held responsible, surely here in the court of public opinion, the same principal can be applied.
No you can't. The court has to consider every case independently and that's why the acquitted Passaro. It was Passaro who knifed Hunter, no one else. It was Hunter who prior to that pulled out a loaded gun and pointed it at the stage or at least in some direction - theres a real chance he might have fired it and actually hit someone.
The court didnt acquit the other Angels because they werent charged. Their behavior should have been reported and they whould have been prosecuted though. Had the case been about Passaro selling drugs, yes, then the Angels could have been prosecuted as a group.
Did Mrs Hunter try to make this into a civil law suit?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 23:21 by Redhotcarpet.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: April 13, 2018 21:49
Quote
Redhotcarpet
No you can't. The court has to consider every case independently and that's why the acquitted Passaro. It was Passaro who knifed Hunter, no one else. It was Hunter who before that pulled out a loaded gun and pointed it at the stage or at least in some direction - theres a real chance he might have fired it and actually hit someone.
We agree. Not saying the self defense ruling wasn't accurate.
Just replying to the original question as to whether he was a "hero".
Just as that question wasn't part of any legal proceedings,the answer (opinion) shouldn't be held to a legal standard either. All opinion at this point.
Mine is clearly he was no hero.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 13, 2018 22:31
Eggzactly, and then if you can do that, then why can't the Angel do the same to a black person, since that is what you seem to think happened.Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPQuote
MisterDDDDQuote
LeonidPCool, so there is new evidence that shows this guy was the reason? Certainly you wouldn't just make that part up, please post the link.Quote
MisterDDDD
... but the guy was a scumbag who likely was a big part of the reason the gun was pulled to begin with...
Sure, here.. [iorr.org]
Read the thread, watch the clips. Remember I said part of the reason.
Turns out he was a Hell's Angel.
Who had been bashing heads/inciting violence and causing mayhem all day. You'll also learn he later died while likely running from someone and had a load of cash on him etc. Like I said, a real scumbag thug, seems obvious.
You're judging him on the incident based on his associate w/ the group ... sorry can't do that. You have no idea that he did something that caused the dude to pull a gun but you are stating it that is is most likely ...why?
Sure I can. Just did...
Can't have it both ways.
Well I guess you will say that you just did again, but that says a lot about your arguments, etc.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: April 13, 2018 23:57
Quote
LeonidP
Eggzactly, and then if you can do that, then why can't the Angel do the same to a black person, since that is what you seem to think happened.
Can't have it both ways.
Well I guess you will say that you just did again, but that says a lot about your arguments, etc.
Actually, I haven't mentioned and honestly don't believe race played a factor in the killing. Not sure what your motive is for sticking up for the obvious thug, including making up what you think others believe, what they really think etc.
Others expressing their opinions on it, if it differs from yours or is rational, seems to be a real trigger for you. As you say, it says a lot about you.
Learned a while back debating with someone who just wants to be contrary is futile. Carry on.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 14, 2018 13:08
Quote
stanlove
The only rational opinion is we don't know if race had anything to do with it. We do know that whites got beat up all over the place also and other blacks near the stage seemed to be doing just fine.
With this I agree: we don't know if race had anything to do with it (though I wouldn't be sure that we 'know' other blacks near the stage to be 'doing just fine' - probably so if the criterion 'doing just fine' is 'not to be killed').
However, from acknowledging the limits of our knowledge, we seem draw different morals from it. For you it seems like even suggesting the possible racist motive is strictly forbidden. For me that still sounds as a possible and even rational way to explain some of the things that were going there. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't see this as some sort of 'court room case' - when the question of providing the evidence and all that is fundamental. For me trying to make sense of it is in order to understand what was going on, is more a work of a historian or a moral philosopher than that of lawyer. To say it differently, I am more interested in 'truth' than of 'evidence', the latter being a necessary but not a sufficient reason for the former.
- Doxa
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
curt
()
Date: April 14, 2018 13:43
It is extremely simplistic and severely reductionist to sum up the nature of that day based on a few seconds of grainy, dark, handheld camera work.
I would plainly state that a lot more went on there than a drawn pistol...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 13:47 by curt.
I would plainly state that a lot more went on there than a drawn pistol...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 13:47 by curt.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 14, 2018 13:59
Quote
LeonidPQuote
Doxa
Hmmm... more than figuring out if the death of a Meredith Hunter had some sort of racist factors - the scene being that of America 1969, a gang of white guys not much known for their tolerant opinions...
Not sure how you are so certain of the gang's tolerance level, let alone the specific person involved. It seems a double standard, you are convicting the group, and this specific person without any idea if they/he was racist, just because of the group he was associated with.
You seemingly missed the 'ifs' in my post - the whole idea of that passage was that of describing rather generally and loosely the context from where the supposed racism charge comes from (no matter what opinion we might have of its validity). Anyway, if "a gang of white guys not much known for their tolerant opinions" is "convicting the group" I can only wonder from where this over-sensitivity from your side derives from. Something clearly hitting hard home there if such a harmless remark about the Hells Angels in general hurts so much. Besides, I wasn't talking about Passaro in particular at all. You seemingly put something into my mouth that isn't there.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 14:00 by Doxa.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 14, 2018 14:39
Quote
curt
It is extremely simplistic and severely reductionist to sum up the nature of that day based on a few seconds of grainy, dark, handheld camera work.
I would plainly state that a lot more went on there than a drawn pistol...
Well, I have gotten the impression that those strongly sticking to the evidence of that a few sec footage - like Passaro's defence team, rightly, did in the court - and denying the chance of something else having a role there, is like a case of criminals knowing that the evidence to convict them wouldn't be good enough in the court room, no matter how quilty they in reality are. So all there is for them to do is just point out to the technical evidence and ignore all the rest. And laugh all the way to freedom... I don't know from where this kind of mentality or motivation - only evidence matter, never mind the truth - derives from: is it a cold-hearted lawyer-like purism to acknowledge nothing but non-disputed evidence and disqualify anything else. Or is it more like that of using the sort of adventage they have here ('evidence' works for them beautifully in this case) in order to clear the name of Passaro and The Angels against any possible charges towards their doings at Altamont (or in general). Or is it - like I suggested earlier - the Altamont tragedy being nothing but a suitable target to project and think aloud stances in today's political world (including attitude towards racism, etc.). What I find odd with these people is the lack of any empathy towards Hunter, his family, or anyone beaten up at Altamont. Frightening.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 14:42 by Doxa.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Honestman
()
Date: April 14, 2018 15:17
something happened, is happening or will happen...
HMN
HMN
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Eleanor Rigby
()
Date: April 14, 2018 16:14
Dont forget the Angels were hitting that naked woman in the face because she was approaching the stage.
Security taken to the extreme!
Security taken to the extreme!
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 14, 2018 17:16
Quote
DoxaQuote
curt
the Altamont tragedy being nothing but a suitable target to project and think aloud stances in today's political world (including attitude towards racism, etc.). What I find odd with these people is the lack of any empathy towards Hunter, his family, or anyone beaten up at Altamont. Frightening.
- Doxa
You are the one guilty pf projecting your stance on racism that is so big in today's political world. You can't drop the issue of racism. There is no evidence that it had anything to do with race yet you keep pushing it.
Like I said before. Too way to many people nothing bad can ever happen to someone who happens to be black, it always happens because they are black. To these people everything is chalked up to racism.
Nobody knows if Hunter's race had anything to do with what happened. It is a possibility but no logical argument can be made to back it up. A better argument can be made against it. But nobody knows.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 17:19 by stanlove.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 14, 2018 19:31
Quote
stanlove
Too way to many people nothing bad can ever happen to someone who happens to be black, it always happens because they are black. To these people everything is chalked up to racism.
Well, at least you showed your stance pretty well. It is "these people" that you have a beef with, and anything you wrote here about the things happened almost 50 years ago, stems from the motivation to show how wrong "these people" - and supposedly their misuse of the so called 'race card' - today are. Good luck with that agenda.
Thank you for being frank.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 19:34 by Doxa.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 14, 2018 20:47
Quote
DoxaQuote
stanlove
Too way to many people nothing bad can ever happen to someone who happens to be black, it always happens because they are black. To these people everything is chalked up to racism.
Well, at least you showed your stance pretty well. It is "these people" that you have a beef with, and anything you wrote here about the things happened almost 50 years ago, stems from the motivation to show how wrong "these people" - and supposedly their misuse of the so called 'race card' - today are. Good luck with that agenda.
Thank you for being frank.
- Doxa
You just can't give up. You are obsessed with making this about race and anyone who won't go along with your game is wrong. I can only imagine the amount of times you throw the word racism around., Like I said before someone like you is an irresitable force.
My stance is simple. If there is no proof of racism than someone should not claim as a fact that racism was the cause. People who do that are a problem.
Could this maybe have had something to do with race? Of course but nobody knows. You are the one showing your true colors by forcing the issue when you ant know if it was an issue here. In other words you are not rational and you are the problem. You are the one with an agenda and it is obvious. Good luck with that.
One question for you. IS there any chance at all that Hunter's death had nothiong to do with race?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 21:01 by stanlove.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 14, 2018 21:27
Quote
stanlove
One question for you. IS there any chance at all that Hunter's death had nothiong to do with race?
Yes, there is. If you have had just followed the discussion here and tried to read mine or some other people's comments a bit more carefully, that wouldn't have come to you as any surprise (and for you no reason to even ask it now). But no, it is much easier to dismiss the course of a rational, civic discussion by not even trying to understand the others have to say. It is much easier just talk from the base on prejudices about "someone like you" (me, that is). As I can see, you are not talking to some real people here, but to some of your own ghosts or products of your own imagination. Nothing wrong with that, but it is pretty hard for me to talk on behalf of those ghosts..
Besides, I don't have any problem in "showing my true colors". I have nothing to hide. Do you?
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 21:36 by Doxa.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 14, 2018 21:48
Quote
DoxaQuote
LeonidPQuote
Doxa
Hmmm... more than figuring out if the death of a Meredith Hunter had some sort of racist factors - the scene being that of America 1969, a gang of white guys not much known for their tolerant opinions...
Not sure how you are so certain of the gang's tolerance level, let alone the specific person involved. It seems a double standard, you are convicting the group, and this specific person without any idea if they/he was racist, just because of the group he was associated with.
You seemingly missed the 'ifs' in my post - the whole idea of that passage was that of describing rather generally and loosely the context from where the supposed racism charge comes from (no matter what opinion we might have of its validity). Anyway, if "a gang of white guys not much known for their tolerant opinions" is "convicting the group" I can only wonder from where this over-sensitivity from your side derives from. Something clearly hitting hard home there if such a harmless remark about the Hells Angels in general hurts so much. Besides, I wasn't talking about Passaro in particular at all. You seemingly put something into my mouth that isn't there.
- Doxa
I don't know enough about the gang to know they are known for not having tolerant opinions. I haven't read anything to that effect. All I read about them is they don't take lightly when someone messes w/ their bikes. The 'not being tolerant' of opinions applies more here it seems to me, check out MisterDB as an example.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 14, 2018 21:55
Quote
DoxaQuote
stanlove
One question for you. IS there any chance at all that Hunter's death had nothiong to do with race?
Yes, there is. If you have had just followed the discussion here and tried to read mine or some other people's comments a bit more carefully, that wouldn't have come to you as any surprise (and for you no reason to even ask it now). But no, it is much easier to dismiss the course of a rational, civic discussion by not even trying to understand the others have to say. It is much easier just talk from the base on prejudices about "someone like you" (me, that is). As I can see, you are not talking to some real people here, but to some of your own ghosts or products of your own imagination. Nothing wrong with that, but it is pretty hard for me to talk on behalf of those ghosts..
Besides, I don't have any problem in "showing my true colors". I have nothing to hide. Do you?
- Doxa
So now he hints ( he will probably try to deny ? that I am a racist. I did read through the thread and you are obsessed with the race angle despite the fact that nobody on here knows if it had anything to do with race.
No I ave no problems showing my true colors. Again my true colors are clear. If someone doesn't have evidence of racism then they should stop trying to argue that it is racism. Pretty simple really.
You are the one who got into the whole things about right singers and things like that. You have been pushing from the start.
You posted this. You are all about race period and you have an agenda.
The point of this talk is relativize the whole idea and reality of racism - by making it such a formal notion, it loses its substantive significance - the whole history and reference doesn't really matter anymore. Its scope and extension being a rather trivial issue, applying anywhere. Then we have absurd - but technically/semantically 'right' - claims like saying 'all a white jury might not have being totally just for a black kid in 1969' is actually a racist claim against these white jurors. I guess by that logic when Meredith Hunter's relatives didn't attend the trail back then because they thought they son will not get justice, they - Meredith's relatives - were 'racists'. I wonder if any of you self-claimed 'non-racists' here, by the trivial definition of the term, would have a nerve or guts or human decency to say that to their faces.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 22:06 by stanlove.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 14, 2018 22:21
Quote
stanlove
You are all about race period and you have an agenda.
Yep. It could be that I take racism more seriously than you do.
- Doxa
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 14, 2018 23:22
Quote
DoxaQuote
stanlove
You are all about race period and you have an agenda.
Yep. It could be that I take racism more seriously than you do.
- Doxa
Just because one doesn't think this is race related doesn't mean one doesn't take it seriously.
** and to further clarify, I am not one of those that doesn't think it was not related to race ... my point all along is that we don't know. I just don't get the jumping to conclusions on it and then being so sure that is the way it is, despite no evidence of it (except that he has been determined to be a scumbag hell's angel, which i guess makes him guilty).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 23:24 by LeonidP.
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