Quote
curt

Quote
terraplane
Seems more like Hunter Meredith was acting in self defense

This is close to the truth, but it would be more accurate to say that he attempted to defend himself. It is so ludicrous that Passaro was acquitted of murder with a claim of "self defense". When is it that Hunter attacked anyone ? He was set upon by a pack of jackals who lied for each other (why is it that no other Angel was charged with say assault and battery, aggravated assault or mayhem) and judged "not guilty" by a dozen frightened citizens.

It is not nessassarily ludicrous that he was acquitted. The way a trial works would be that Passaro would be judged on what he knew when he took his actions. He was not the one who roughed up Hunter to begin with. I was not at the trial ( would like to get the transcripts ) but a good case could be made that Passaro saw a gun with a gun aiming at him or his friends so he stabbed the guy. It is understandable that he got off on that.


Witnesses said that the Angles continues to pound on him and would not let anyone help him. Those Angle's in my opinion should have been looked at.

I am not pro Angle at all. I look at Hunter as a victim and always have, but legally I understand why Passaro got off. I think he was a piece of shit.


I think had Hunter shot one of the Angle's chasing him he might have done ok in court.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 19:05 by stanlove.

Quote
curt

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !

Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...

Not sure where you would get that from and it really makes nos sense. It would make more sense RW gun lovers would favor Hunter who pulled a gun to protect himself.

Quote
nick

Quote
curt

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !

Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...

If the Angels were going against the guy with the gun then wouldn't they be LW?? Typical isn't it. Kevin got nothing left so he get's crude and Curt saying something completely opposite to inject politics into it. Last but not least, stanlove will be on soon to fight the fight for the right.

Face it guys, you don't give a crap about any of this. Only politics. Go finish this up on the FOX and MSNBC forums.

Why the heck are you saying I would fight for the right. Not that politics matter on this board but I am totally for gun control and have never touched one in my life, I am a middle of the roader and don't like the far left or the far right.

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
nick

Quote
curt

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !

Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...

j

If the Angels were going against the guy with the gun then wouldn't they be LW?? Typical isn't it. Kevin got nothing left so he get's crude and Curt saying something completely opposite to inject politics into it. Last but not least, stanlove will be on soon to fight the fight for the right.

Face it guys, you don't give a crap about any of this. Only politics. Go finish this up on the FOX and MSNBC forums.

Actually my name isn’t Kevin. True I don’t really give a crap about 95% of what’s been typed here. I just dispute the OP and his suggestion that whoever killed Hunter is a hero. But I have found some of the “good ole boy” sentiments expressed within this thread rather disturbing.

And I wasn’t seeking to be crude. Just suggesting that some here actually get their rocks off watching the violence perpetrated by the angels in Gimme Shelter.

Names.

The guilt issue set aside - what I really wonder about is why an 18-year old college student carried a gun. And why he was dressed up like a pimp (green suit and hat).
And why he did advanced drugs at age 18? Irrelevant questions maybe, but still intriguing.

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
nick

Quote
curt

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !

Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...

j

If the Angels were going against the guy with the gun then wouldn't they be LW?? Typical isn't it. Kevin got nothing left so he get's crude and Curt saying something completely opposite to inject politics into it. Last but not least, stanlove will be on soon to fight the fight for the right.

Face it guys, you don't give a crap about any of this. Only politics. Go finish this up on the FOX and MSNBC forums.

Actually my name isn’t Kevin. True I don’t really give a crap about 95% of what’s been typed here. I just dispute the OP and his suggestion that whoever killed Hunter is a hero. But I have found some of the “good ole boy” sentiments expressed within this thread rather disturbing.

And I wasn’t seeking to be crude. Just suggesting that some here actually get their rocks off watching the violence perpetrated by the angels in Gimme Shelter.

Yes, that’s a fair assessment

I just saw this thread.. there is no doubt in my mind, and David Maysles made the same point to me when he showed me the footage...if Hunter's girlfriend didn't have on a white sweater, we wouldn't have seen the gun in Meredith's hand and a lot of you would have been screaming, it's bloody murder instead of self defense.

I was thankful there was an 'angel' there to take out the gun man..(No need to arm teachers with guns if we put an Angel-[brought a knife to a gun fight and won] in each classroom...
I also felt that the violence was perpetrated by the alcohol,drugs,lack of sleep, lack of food and water, close quarters...and the Hell's Angels' initiates trying to score points...

Quote
bmuseed
I just saw this thread.. there is no doubt in my mind, and David Maysles made the same point to me when he showed me the footage...if Hunter's girlfriend didn't have on a white sweater, we wouldn't have seen the gun in Meredith's hand and a lot of you would have been screaming, it's bloody murder instead of self defense.

There were no charges until Gimme Shelter came out?
The fact he had a gun would not have been made public?

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
terraplane

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know

Sounds like self defense to me.

He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.

None of them were being stabbed either

Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.

Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though

I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.

Well, that's good to hear, so you don't need that "eyewitness" account of someone else to see for yourself. No matter how many times you look at those scenes, you can see the sequence: first gun, than stabbing. Or do/did you see something else? Why did Hunter go to this concert? To enjoy the music (no need to take a gun along then) or to make a (power) statement to anyone that he would not be told by anyone where to stay or go or pushed or whatever? By taking along and finally pulling his gun, he basically "killed himself" (which doesn't mean that I approve of the Angels' actions).

Quote
bmuseed
I just saw this thread.. there is no doubt in my mind, and David Maysles made the same point to me when he showed me the footage...if Hunter's girlfriend didn't have on a white sweater, we wouldn't have seen the gun in Meredith's hand and a lot of you would have been screaming, it's bloody murder instead of self defense.

I was thankful there was an 'angel' there to take out the gun man..(No need to arm teachers with guns if we put an Angel-[brought a knife to a gun fight and won] in each classroom...
I also felt that the violence was perpetrated by the alcohol,drugs,lack of sleep, lack of food and water, close quarters...and the Hell's Angels' initiates trying to score points...

As were a great many of others.

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
terraplane

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know

Sounds like self defense to me.

He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.

None of them were being stabbed either

Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.

Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though

I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.

Well, that's good to hear, so you don't need that "eyewitness" account of someone else to see for yourself. No matter how many times you look at those scenes, you can see the sequence: first gun, than stabbing. Or do/did you see something else? Why did Hunter go to this concert? To enjoy the music (no need to take a gun along then) or to make a (power) statement to anyone that he would not be told by anyone where to stay or go or pushed or whatever? By taking along and finally pulling his gun, he basically "killed himself" (which doesn't mean that I approve of the Angels' actions).

Comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point or you are choosing to wilfully ignore the eye witness claim that he was stabbed before and after he pulled the gun.Is it not possible that Mayles didn't film everything that happened? Yes, MH shouldn't have brought a gun and the Hells Angels shouldn't have brought pool cues and knives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-01 00:39 by terraplane.

Quote
bmuseed
I just saw this thread.. there is no doubt in my mind, and David Maysles made the same point to me when he showed me the footage...if Hunter's girlfriend didn't have on a white sweater, we wouldn't have seen the gun in Meredith's hand and a lot of you would have been screaming, it's bloody murder instead of self defense.

I was thankful there was an 'angel' there to take out the gun man..(No need to arm teachers with guns if we put an Angel-[brought a knife to a gun fight and won] in each classroom...
I also felt that the violence was perpetrated by the alcohol,drugs,lack of sleep, lack of food and water, close quarters...and the Hell's Angels' initiates trying to score points...

So, this young man died because a bunch of "prospects" were overzealous ???

I will certainly agree that a poor location, poor infrastructure, and other odd choices on the part of many set the stage so to speak, but the ultimate cause of Meredith Hunter's death was the mayhem visited upon him and his failure to "ignore" the threat of the thugs who accosted him on multiple occasions in a short space of time.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-01 10:43 by Redhotcarpet.

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
curt

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
curt

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
terraplane
Seems more like Hunter Meredith was acting in self defense

No it doesnt. Seems he was high on meth, got into a fight with the HA (a bunch of sociopaths) and decided to pull a gun at one of the HA. The HA stabbed him to death. Why on earth did he carry a revolver in the first place? He shouldve just ignored the disgusting Hells Angels.

I would think it a might difficult to "ignore" somebody and some of their friends who were harassing and assaulting you, wouldn't you ?

Not really. Everybody else tried to ignore the Hells Angels despite their horrible beatings with pool sticks etc. had they picked a fight with me I'd just move away from those sociopaths.

Have you had much experience with thugs or bullies ?
You know, the kind who will pursue those who shrink away in fear
It has been my observation in life that this batch (Hell's Angels) gets off on torment and dominates by way of physical violence.

These "Angels" are no one's friend or savior.

Yes i was bullied at school for many years. Sometimes I just had to fight back but I chose not to when they were too many or if the bully was too strong. That was tough. Later, when I was 18 I wasnt bullied but I know I wouldnt have brought a gun to a concert, used meth and I would never have tried to fight the Hells Angels. Aiming guns and being high on meth has nothing to do with bullying.

Fifty years ago or so when I attended school my policy on bullies was to "spot 'em and drop 'em". Amazing it is how quickly they get civil when bested by someone not in their weight class.

Most everyone at this concert was high on one thing or another and from personal experience and being present at this gig I can plainly state that there was no way to tell that anyone was on which kind of drug or another. So it follows that the fact of Hunter's choice of intoxicant was not known until an autopsy was performed.

It seems to me that most people aware of this incident in the long and varied history of this band reach the same conclusion based on a few seconds of poorly recorded footage. There was a lot more to it than what could be dimly perceived
in that short clip.

Quote
bmuseed
I just saw this thread.. there is no doubt in my mind, and David Maysles made the same point to me when he showed me the footage...if Hunter's girlfriend didn't have on a white sweater, we wouldn't have seen the gun in Meredith's hand and a lot of you would have been screaming, it's bloody murder instead of self defense.

I was thankful there was an 'angel' there to take out the gun man..(No need to arm teachers with guns if we put an Angel-[brought a knife to a gun fight and won] in each classroom...
I also felt that the violence was perpetrated by the alcohol,drugs,lack of sleep, lack of food and water, close quarters...and the Hell's Angels' initiates trying to score points...

yes...food, water, shelter before they fade away and etc...
.... complete mis-management when it came to anticipating what was surely, and intended to be,
a massive, massive gathering; in historic numbers actually.
i think it sort of was a "bloody murder" actually;
if it's going to put in such terms. It would depend on the perspective;
and of course, individual interpretation; one theory as valid as another
in that context, if one accepts that the close witness quoted is reporting
accurately; it was a responsible interview and a detailed one....
so if one runs with that; here's a guy, be it racially inspired or not we'll not know...but his head and hair is being yanked violently amdist laughter and derision...he's beaten by several and stabbed; this is all before anyone is talking about a gun....was it a good idea to bring a gun to the show? i don't think so; he might have somehow survived, more likely to have, one could guess....i'm not making a hero out of that kid; the whole thing is ugly and im likely to delete this. it's a great tour by the greatest band;
they made the changes they needed to make before they started recording and touring again.

lots of desert concerts, and with professional site and stage management and care, largely pretty safe ones. tho the searing heat can always be a danger...
Did you meet up with Bill there? What did you think of his critique?

You were "thankful there was an 'angel' there to take out the 'gun man'"...

i was not. that kid was put in an impossible situation right from the stage.
turning the kid into a murderous King Kong is equivocation at best imo.

who was going to be the security at the first venue before the quick change, if you know please?
at what point were you first in touch with Chip Monck after he had seen the new site?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-01 04:49 by hopkins.

To veer away from the speculation for a moment, an interesting read from super dupe groupie Pamela Des Barres (author of I'm With the Band).
Factual? Fictional? Probably a blend of both:

Pamela Des Barres: Coming of Age at Altamont

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
terraplane

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know

Sounds like self defense to me.

He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.

None of them were being stabbed either

Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.

Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though

I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.

Well, that's good to hear, so you don't need that "eyewitness" account of someone else to see for yourself. No matter how many times you look at those scenes, you can see the sequence: first gun, than stabbing. Or do/did you see something else? Why did Hunter go to this concert? To enjoy the music (no need to take a gun along then) or to make a (power) statement to anyone that he would not be told by anyone where to stay or go or pushed or whatever? By taking along and finally pulling his gun, he basically "killed himself" (which doesn't mean that I approve of the Angels' actions).

Comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point or you are choosing to wilfully ignore the eye witness claim that he was stabbed before and after he pulled the gun.Is it not possible that Mayles didn't film everything that happened? Yes, MH shouldn't have brought a gun and the Hells Angels shouldn't have brought pool cues and knives.

I don't try to ignore the "eyewitness" claim, but find it (very) hard to believe (even more: don't trust it). Hunter's moves (during the process of pulling his gun) by far don't look like if he was stabbed already. Again, I'm not defending the Angels at all.
With your final remark we are fully in line! If the whole scene would be looked upon as "lessons learned", the Maysles docu is worth it all. Having said that, my heart already hurts again remembering the Las Vegas drama.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-01 12:37 by terraplane.

Quote
Hairball
To veer away from the speculation for a moment, an interesting read from super dupe groupie Pamela Des Barres (author of I'm With the Band).
Factual? Fictional? Probably a blend of both:

Pamela Des Barres: Coming of Age at Altamont

Thats Keith over Sneaky Pete's left shoulder in the Altamont pic from that article.
Thanks for the link.

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
terraplane

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know

Sounds like self defense to me.

He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.

None of them were being stabbed either

Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.

Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though

I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.

Well, that's good to hear, so you don't need that "eyewitness" account of someone else to see for yourself. No matter how many times you look at those scenes, you can see the sequence: first gun, than stabbing. Or do/did you see something else? Why did Hunter go to this concert? To enjoy the music (no need to take a gun along then) or to make a (power) statement to anyone that he would not be told by anyone where to stay or go or pushed or whatever? By taking along and finally pulling his gun, he basically "killed himself" (which doesn't mean that I approve of the Angels' actions).

Comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point or you are choosing to wilfully ignore the eye witness claim that he was stabbed before and after he pulled the gun.Is it not possible that Mayles didn't film everything that happened? Yes, MH shouldn't have brought a gun and the Hells Angels shouldn't have brought pool cues and knives.

I don't try to ignore the "eyewitness" claim, but find it (very) hard to believe (even more: don't trust it). Hunter's moves (during the process of pulling his gun) by far don't look like if he was stabbed already. Again, I'm not defending the Angels at all.
With your final remark we are fully in line! If the whole scene would be looked upon as "lessons learned", the Maysles docu is worth it all. Having said that, my heart already hurts again remembering the Las Vegas drama.

"HUnter's moves don't look like he was stabbed already"
Those poorly shot, moments of frenzy that we see are absolutely not enough to draw such a conclusion. I will tell you from personal experience, that in those seconds of concentrated adrenaline, when you are fighting for your life, it is entirely possible to not feel any knife stabbings for a while.

Here is video that again shows how violent the Angles were. The fat naked guy and girl were all over the place which always makes me laugh. She is actually trying to break up a fight at 2:37 when the Angels decided to go bowling. They did beat up the fat guy also 3:51.





[www.youtube.com]

I remember seeing that clip and thinking the guy at the 55 second mark looks a bit like Jim Morrison.
Screenshot from video:




Jim Morrison, 1969

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-01 20:37 by Hairball.

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
terraplane

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know

Sounds like self defense to me.

He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.

None of them were being stabbed either

Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.

Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though

I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.

Well, that's good to hear, so you don't need that "eyewitness" account of someone else to see for yourself. No matter how many times you look at those scenes, you can see the sequence: first gun, than stabbing. Or do/did you see something else? Why did Hunter go to this concert? To enjoy the music (no need to take a gun along then) or to make a (power) statement to anyone that he would not be told by anyone where to stay or go or pushed or whatever? By taking along and finally pulling his gun, he basically "killed himself" (which doesn't mean that I approve of the Angels' actions).

Comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point or you are choosing to wilfully ignore the eye witness claim that he was stabbed before and after he pulled the gun.Is it not possible that Mayles didn't film everything that happened? Yes, MH shouldn't have brought a gun and the Hells Angels shouldn't have brought pool cues and knives.

I don't try to ignore the "eyewitness" claim, but find it (very) hard to believe (even more: don't trust it). Hunter's moves (during the process of pulling his gun) by far don't look like if he was stabbed already. Again, I'm not defending the Angels at all.
With your final remark we are fully in line! If the whole scene would be looked upon as "lessons learned", the Maysles docu is worth it all. Having said that, my heart already hurts again remembering the Las Vegas drama.

Yeah nobody can make a good argument that Hunter was stabbed before he pulled the gun. You have to cherry pick witness testimony to try and make that argument and it does not line up with what we see,

There is no evidence that anyone but Pssaro stabbed Hunter and in this video at 4:08 you can see Passaro going for his knife. At least that is what it looks like to me. Considering where his hands are it doesn't make sense that he had the knife before this point.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-01 21:30 by stanlove.

Quote
Hairball
I remember seeing that clip and thinking the guy at the 55 second mark looks a bit like Jim Morrison.
Screenshot from video:




Jim Morrison, 1969

Surely he does. But by December 69 he was clean-shaven.

Ah thanks BJPortugal - that puts an end to that conspiracy.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I watched the footage frame by frame with David Maysles..he also had footage of Hunter and Passaro earlier in the day standing next to each other-no problems.....

The gun was in Hunter's hand, out, before Passaro grabbed his knife and lifted it over his head.. Passaro grabbed the gun hand with one hand and pulled his knife with the other. What bothered me was that it seemed so natural Passaro...what bothered me more was the other guy had a gun...

Quote
bmuseed
I watched the footage frame by frame with David Maysles..he also had footage of Hunter and Passaro earlier in the day standing next to each other-no problems.....

The gun was in Hunter's hand, out, before Passaro grabbed his knife and lifted it over his head.. Passaro grabbed the gun hand with one hand and pulled his knife with the other. What bothered me was that it seemed so natural Passaro...what bothered me more was the other guy had a gun...

What happened to the earlier video that you speak of?

Quote
stanlove

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
terraplane

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know

Sounds like self defense to me.

He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.

None of them were being stabbed either

Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.

Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though

I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.

Well, that's good to hear, so you don't need that "eyewitness" account of someone else to see for yourself. No matter how many times you look at those scenes, you can see the sequence: first gun, than stabbing. Or do/did you see something else? Why did Hunter go to this concert? To enjoy the music (no need to take a gun along then) or to make a (power) statement to anyone that he would not be told by anyone where to stay or go or pushed or whatever? By taking along and finally pulling his gun, he basically "killed himself" (which doesn't mean that I approve of the Angels' actions).

Comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point or you are choosing to wilfully ignore the eye witness claim that he was stabbed before and after he pulled the gun.Is it not possible that Mayles didn't film everything that happened? Yes, MH shouldn't have brought a gun and the Hells Angels shouldn't have brought pool cues and knives.

I don't try to ignore the "eyewitness" claim, but find it (very) hard to believe (even more: don't trust it). Hunter's moves (during the process of pulling his gun) by far don't look like if he was stabbed already. Again, I'm not defending the Angels at all.
With your final remark we are fully in line! If the whole scene would be looked upon as "lessons learned", the Maysles docu is worth it all. Having said that, my heart already hurts again remembering the Las Vegas drama.

Yeah nobody can make a good argument that Hunter was stabbed before he pulled the gun. You have to cherry pick witness testimony to try and make that argument and it does not line up with what we see,

There is no evidence that anyone but Pssaro stabbed Hunter and in this video at 4:08 you can see Passaro going for his knife. At least that is what it looks like to me. Considering where his hands are it doesn't make sense that he had the knife before this point.

[www.youtube.com]

yeh "nobody" except for direct witnesses; there were more than one. but that one suffices nicely; it's relative credibilty to you personally is a personal opinion; my personal opinion would factor in that this Interview was done when Rolling Stone, whatever the coming picadillos or marketin savvy of Wenner, was not only pretty credible when Gleason's influence was still prevalent; but
actually was a HUGE legitmizing evolutionary cultural phenemenon BECAUSE
of the solidity of the several writers and coverage in general; it was an Interview done long before people even knew what was available on any Mayles
18 cams or the fans and other photogs there...
so his descriptions are not a result of exposure to footage;
yet the exactitude of the an entire lengthy period....
was involved; so your opionion; or even what seems to be a bit the campaign for your 'definitive' reasoning; is acknowledged but doesn't really credibly negate the veracity of any of that testimony; the closer i look at them; it still seems credible to me personally....
plus the interview footage with the surviovors friends and families in the aftermath; as well as an almost, in retrospect let's say, exact method
to ensure major dysfunction and trouble; it's covered very well and very
responsibly; i was sorry to see all the coverage in a way; just cause violence-porn after awhile. no facilities for 300,000 peeps; in a desert with zero amenities...with twenty hours notice of the new locations...
and the lawyerly and managerial chess-game regarding movie rights...etc...

mayles wanting to veer away from the disturbing stuff even the day before...
i'm not saying that is particularly relevant; but yet another of dozens of little examples; proving the Editorial staff had a lot of comprehensive
field reporting going on; co-current with the San Fran radio stations and etc....right from the start. i think it's a great link and a very professional credible job; it's NOT AN eDITORIAl or Judgement; it Does let a Lot of Interviews see print. Before the footage was available or accessed, even
by the filmaker crews.

Rolling Stone was not even a magazine yet.
It's this kind of credible journalism and coverage that changed the game HUGELY, in a way that could not be credibly under-estimated.
When it WAS an actul ground-breaking newspaper, it was attracting
some of the best talent in the country working on a more comprehensive
level than many 'legitmate' non 'pop culture' publications. this changed Everything.
I'm only sorry it seems, well in the case of RS MAG fer sure, to have
gone so far backward since the fledling days of such super journalism.

guess it's fair to say that it sold a lot of tickets and etc...
also KNOW it's fair to say that some of the contempt for The Stones
is exactly the attitudes I really love and cherish about these guys.
i was pissed reading people taking jags apart in that link,
but a good reporter is gonna let all that stuff get said.
mick took a LOT of cheap shots, for being a fkn MAN,
as well as a transcendent entertainer that night.
so please believe me; this is just my opinion observation and feeling.
i don't want to argue with anyone unless it's friends making good points
to bounce off each other respectfully; tha5'sw jus5 me; i dig Reading
some of the snotty stuff if it5's not cruel. i'm just sorta here on good behavior agreement, that i myself suggested and was glad BV was a champ about it....

swo t5his is sensiitive stuff; and i'm not exceprting a lot of sensiitive stuff
i think is ugly; like crosby shooting his mouth off; but that's my personal problem; like it or not; Graham's rage is understandable and i don't think he was faking or had any money interest at all in saying his piece.

69:
also fair to say that this is some of the most incredible rock and roll music ever written, performed and projected with such droll humor, incredible joy, total silliness, absolute down-in-the-pocket real solid no bullshit groove...
wild fun; i love The Stones forever.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-01 23:17 by hopkins.

Rest in Peace Meredith. To me you are an angel in rock and roll heaven, and not a dangerous thug.
I hope somehow, before everything went so wrong, that you were happy being
that close to magical Mick; you were close to the amps and looking great.
I was thinking verry Wilso Pickett. If Ike had been there you would
have had a job!! Rest in Peace; rock on son forever young

Quote
hopkins

Quote
stanlove

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
terraplane

Quote
georgie48

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
terraplane

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know

Sounds like self defense to me.

He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.

None of them were being stabbed either

Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.

Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though

I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.

Well, that's good to hear, so you don't need that "eyewitness" account of someone else to see for yourself. No matter how many times you look at those scenes, you can see the sequence: first gun, than stabbing. Or do/did you see something else? Why did Hunter go to this concert? To enjoy the music (no need to take a gun along then) or to make a (power) statement to anyone that he would not be told by anyone where to stay or go or pushed or whatever? By taking along and finally pulling his gun, he basically "killed himself" (which doesn't mean that I approve of the Angels' actions).

Comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point or you are choosing to wilfully ignore the eye witness claim that he was stabbed before and after he pulled the gun.Is it not possible that Mayles didn't film everything that happened? Yes, MH shouldn't have brought a gun and the Hells Angels shouldn't have brought pool cues and knives.

I don't try to ignore the "eyewitness" claim, but find it (very) hard to believe (even more: don't trust it). Hunter's moves (during the process of pulling his gun) by far don't look like if he was stabbed already. Again, I'm not defending the Angels at all.
With your final remark we are fully in line! If the whole scene would be looked upon as "lessons learned", the Maysles docu is worth it all. Having said that, my heart already hurts again remembering the Las Vegas drama.

Yeah nobody can make a good argument that Hunter was stabbed before he pulled the gun. You have to cherry pick witness testimony to try and make that argument and it does not line up with what we see,

There is no evidence that anyone but Pssaro stabbed Hunter and in this video at 4:08 you can see Passaro going for his knife. At least that is what it looks like to me. Considering where his hands are it doesn't make sense that he had the knife before this point.

[www.youtube.com]

yeh "nobody" except for direct witnesses; there were more than one. but that one suffices nicely; it's relative credibilty to you personally is a personal opinion; my personal opinion would factor in that this Interview was done when Rolling .

Witnesses disagreed on whether Hunter was stabbed before he pulled the gun. Any quoting witnesses to back a conclusion is cherry picking.

I just pointed to the part of the video that shows Hunter with his gun while Psaasro is reaching for his knife. When I see that I no longer care about unreliable witness statements. It is right on video.


In saying this I am not defending the Angels. To me it is very clear what happened here and I am still amazed that some people can't see the obvious.

The Angels roughed Hunter up and he pulled a gun. I blame Hunter pulling a gun on the Angels. As far as I have ever heard Hunter had no problems with anyone else but the Angels who assaulted him.

I myself would not have stuck around the stage when the Angels were assaulting people but I am not going to judge someone who decided he was going to enjoy the show from wherever he felt like watching it from and if the Angels assaulted him he was going to fight back.

He was guilty of doing something stupid, they were guilty of being thugs and pieces of shit. I don't compare the two at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-01 23:54 by stanlove.