Quote
MisterDDDD

Quote
keithsman
Lisa is a class act and she will keep the reason or reasons why she left, or was asked to leave to herself.

Err...
"During her years with the group, she fitted in Grand Baton tours when she could, including a date in Victoria weeks before she left the Stones, but eventually the pluses stopped outweighing the minuses.
After a quarter-century, she figured it was time to venture out on her own.

“It got to the point where I was running myself ragged, and I felt like I wasn’t giving my best because I was so exhausted.
“It was a scary time for me, so I finally had to make a decision. I cried when I made that phone call.”
"“I think 20 Feet From Stardom opened the doors for my more complete self, after years of doing different things in different arenas,” Fischer said.

If you read all my post i went into great detail trying to work out the REAL reason she left the dream job.
I explained why i don't think 15 shows a year took up all her year.
Who knows maybe the dream job doesn't even pay that well, there are so many reasons why, like she was upset or emotional about particular things, maybe the Stones could have given her more notice as to when they will be touring next, use your imagination, we are just talking here about an important contribution to the Stones in the last few decades, sometimes there is a bit more to things than meet the eye.

Did you not think it would upset her that Mick got female guest singers to sing Gimme Shelter,( her much loved highlight to the shows ) these little put downs add up over time and she probably thought are they worth my loyalty to drop everything at such short notice.

Actually I do not believe that there is actually one particular reason why people leave the supposed dream job. I don't think it is singulary the drug problem or not getting royalties or being artistcally frustrated or wife whispering something into your ear or leaving the ship before it stinks or making a huge solo career why Mick Taylor once decided to leave, but more like all - or some - of them being a group of reasons that had a conribution leading into a final decision. All/some/any of those together might have some sort of causal effect to make up one's mind ready to one day to come up with that idea 'fvck it, I go' (though any of them can be the last nail in the coffin, so to speak). The same with Bill Wyman (I, for example, do not believe that being afraid of flying was the sole reason for his departure, though it surely had some role).

And the same is with Lisa Fisher. I do believe that the schedule thing has a role here - and probably the final 'nail' was that of the tour of her band clashing with the Stones one that forced her to make the decision. But I also believe that there was something in her 'dream job' that had caused her to re-think the worth of it. And most likely there can be some other reasons as well we don't have even a clue about.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-27 22:20 by Doxa.

Quote
keithsman

we are just talking here about an important contribution to the Stones in the last few decades

This. I have never seen The Rolling Stones with Bill Wyman. But I have never seen The Rolling Stones without Lisa Fischer. As far as my personal Rolling Stones concert experiences go (1995-2014), she is an essential part of that experience. All kudos to her - she surely is one 'worth' of talk about. She wasn't 'just' any back-up singer. She was - and is - the one and only Lisa Fischer.

Now to think of: the early seventies Rolling Stones live band was a sort of dream team of all time: Taylor, Hopkins, Stewart, Keys (plus, of course, the usual suspects)... But as far as the post-Wyman Stones go, the one of 2012-14 was also a kind of latter day dream team: Taylor, Fischer, Keys.. (even occasionally Wyman).

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-27 22:59 by Doxa.

Important contribution? She was a backup singer. There are thousands of those. Her real contribution was her sex appeal. Sex always sells. Especially to a male dominated audience.

Quote
Doxa
Actually I do not believe that there is actually one particular reason why people leave the supposed dream job. I don't think it is singulary the drug problem or not getting royalties or being artistcally frustrated or wife whispering something into your ear or leaving the ship before it stinks or making a huge solo career why Mick Taylor once decided to leave, but more like all - or some - of them being a group of reasons that had a conribution leading into a final decision. All/some/any of those together might have some sort of causal effect to make up one's mind ready to one day to come up with that idea 'fvck it, I go' (though any of them can be the last nail in the coffin, so to speak). The same with Bill Wyman (I, for example, do not believe that being afraid of flying was the sole reason for his departure, though it surely had some role).

And the same is with Lisa Fisher. I do believe that the schedule thing has a role here - and probably the final 'nail' was that of the tour of her band clashing with the Stones one that forced her to make the decision. But I also believe that there was something in her 'dream job' that had caused her to re-think the worth of it. And most likely there can be some other reasons as well we don't have even a clue about.

- Doxa

It's funny you say that Doxa because the final straw that broke the Camels back concerning my best friends marriage brake up was because he ordered a steak and Kidney pie in a posh sea food restaurant.

And the final nail in the coffin with my marriage was me eating two scotch egg's out of the fridge and not leaving one for my wife.

I absolutely agree with you Doxa, the reason people give as to why they finally leave a partner or a bunch of friends are usually just the tip of the iceberg.

Indecently i thought it awkward when Mick kept getting all star guitarists night after night to play with the Stones, we got John Mayer, Gary Clark etc. It's not like Keith insisted we get Steve Tyler or Roger Daltrey to help with the vocals.


If you think about it , it could have been difficult with Ronnie dealing with Mick Taylor showing him how its done night after night, just as it was humiliating for Mick Talor to be reduced to playing acoustic guitar on Satisfaction.

This is a tough industry and these guys need thick skins and amazing ego's to survive in the snake pit, maybe Lisa was just too sensitive in the end.

Quote
Stoneage
Important contribution? She was a backup singer. There are thousands of those. Her real contribution was her sex appeal. Sex always sells. Especially to a male dominated audience.

No, she was not just any back up singer - she actually lifted that role to a level that that she became a star and an icon in that field of art. And she did it with the people who are most charismatic live performers the business knows - creating a natural, recognizable role for herself in the show - even without the ring-master minding her taking some of the spotlight. It was no any surprise that when they made a great film about those 'twenty feet from stardom' back up singers, she was the biggest name of them all. True that sex appeal was a big part of it, but that's not a crime when she is sharing the stage with people like Mick Jagger. The Stones themselves are not the ones with anti-sex appeal - or the 'image' or 'charisma' to make it more acceptable to male non-gay audiences - as one part of their charm either... But I think that dimension finally became the reason for her 'fall'...

I think your remark about there being "thousands of them", and she not making any substantial or individual difference, reminds me of certain people sometimes ignoring the idiosyncratic contribution of Mick Taylor to the Stones. He was a thing called "lead guitarist", but playing flashy guitar solos - the argument goes - isn't really 'essential' to the Stones 'sound'. Any compotent British guitar could have done that and the Stones masterpieces would have sounded exactly same (and there were many of them, and even more since then). But it - flashy guitar solos - sells nicely, especially to certain a male dominated audience. But for trained Stones fan ears, all of us 'weavers' fans, that is/was cheap...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-27 23:50 by Doxa.

The glaring omission in the in depth analysis'/theories on her departure is the wave of success she was riding when she left. Tough to debate that it wasn't the perfect timing for her to take her shot at headlining even if you doubt her own words.The theories would be more plausible if the timeline had been different.

Twenty feet From Stardom was as an Academy Award and Grammy winning film and a box office success.The success of the film was the obvious catalyst.

Quote
MisterDDDD
The glaring omission in the in depth analysis'/theories on her departure is the wave of success she was riding when she left. Tough to debate that it wasn't the perfect timing for her to take her shot at headlining even if you doubt her own words.The theories would be more plausible if the timeline had been different.

Twenty feet From Stardom was as an Academy Award and Grammy winning film and a box office success.The success of the film was the obvious catalyst.

Make your mind up MisterDDDD, just now you made it clear that the very reason she left the Stones was explained in her interview on page 1 of this thread.
After pointing that out to me, you now say its because of the success of her film.

Do you have to keep playing Devils Advocate on this forum.

Quote
MisterDDDD
The glaring omission in the in depth analysis'/theories on her departure is the wave of success she was riding when she left. Tough to debate that it wasn't the perfect timing for her to take her shot at headlining even if you doubt her own words.The theories would be more plausible if the timeline had been different.

Twenty feet From Stardom was as an Academy Award and Grammy winning film and a box office success.The success of the film was the obvious catalyst.

Spot on! The recognition she got was the catalyst for making that decision.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
MisterDDDD
The glaring omission in the in depth analysis'/theories on her departure is the wave of success she was riding when she left. Tough to debate that it wasn't the perfect timing for her to take her shot at headlining even if you doubt her own words.The theories would be more plausible if the timeline had been different.

Twenty feet From Stardom was as an Academy Award and Grammy winning film and a box office success.The success of the film was the obvious catalyst.

Spot on! The recognition she got was the catalyst for making that decision.

You know that for a fact do you ?

Quote
keithsman
Make your mind up MisterDDDD, just now you made it clear that the very reason she left the Stones was explained in her interview on page 1 of this thread.
After pointing that out to me, you now say its because of the success of her film.

Do you have to keep playing Devils Advocate on this forum.

Tough time tracking what your putting down.
Posted a few quotes where she talked about her reasons, including timing etc., but that ended with “I think 20 Feet From Stardom opened the doors for my more complete self, after years of doing different things in different arenas,” Fischer said." [iorr.org]

Honestly thought you must not have read any of it.
Cheers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-28 00:17 by MisterDDDD.

Quote
keithsman

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
MisterDDDD
The glaring omission in the in depth analysis'/theories on her departure is the wave of success she was riding when she left. Tough to debate that it wasn't the perfect timing for her to take her shot at headlining even if you doubt her own words.The theories would be more plausible if the timeline had been different.

Twenty feet From Stardom was as an Academy Award and Grammy winning film and a box office success.The success of the film was the obvious catalyst.

Spot on! The recognition she got was the catalyst for making that decision.

You know that for a fact do you ?

No, but it's very logical

Quote
MisterDDDD
The glaring omission in the in depth analysis'/theories on her departure is the wave of success she was riding when she left. Tough to debate that it wasn't the perfect timing for her to take her shot at headlining even if you doubt her own words.The theories would be more plausible if the timeline had been different.

Twenty feet From Stardom was as an Academy Award and Grammy winning film and a box office success.The success of the film was the obvious catalyst.

I did mention that in my first post here, and before me, somebody else(s) too...

I think we should not underestimate the significance of TWENTY FEET FROM STARDOM here. She had a central role there due to her accomplishments, but she really took - or was given - the spotlight there and damn she was shining there. I know people who have seen the document and who can't care less about the Stones, but were absolutely stunned by her contribution there. And that had nothing to do with her sexy legs, leather clothes, mini skirts, heaven-like boobs, provocative moves and gestures, all those sexy duets with Jagger we Stones fans know her from the 90's (and, to an extent, on). No, it was her natural presence, down to earth personality and, most of all, heaven-like voice that was given a lot of room to shine. And I think the impression is shared, especially after the Grammy award, worldwide. The film was the introduction of 'new' Lisa - not the caricature we know from the Stones context - and that's the one she is seemingly building her career from now on. And honestly, I think that is a smart career choice. (Probably the context of The Stones is not the one in which a lady can grow up gracefully...)

- Doxa

Lisa . Part of the problem, Fischer said, was that the Rolling Stones required her to be in each city on their tours a day prior to the show. That type of commitment — three days for one show, which is totally understandable, Fischer said, given the size of the operation — didn’t leave much room for her solo career.sa "

Why put words into Lisa's mouth , she didn't say the reason she left the Stones was because of the success of the film.
I doubt many Stones concert goers went to see that film let alone heard of it, i certainly hadn't heard about it. It's independent of the Stones, personally i think the reason people go to see Lisa or Bernard live is because they have become famous through the Stones.

Twenty Feet From Stardom ..... It's a sad thing to watch

The waiting is the hardest part ..............



ROCKMAN

Quote
keithsman
Lisa . Part of the problem, Fischer said, was that the Rolling Stones required her to be in each city on their tours a day prior to the show. That type of commitment — three days for one show, which is totally understandable, Fischer said, given the size of the operation — didn’t leave much room for her solo career.sa "

Why put words into Lisa's mouth , she didn't say the reason she left the Stones was because of the success of the film.
I doubt many Stones concert goers went to see that film let alone heard of it, i certainly hadn't heard about it. It's independent of the Stones, personally i think the reason people go to see Lisa or Bernard live is because they have become famous through the Stones.

Umm, Words in her mouth?
I quoted her.

You really should read the article.
And maybe even see the film, took my wife and daughter when it opened it was
fantastic!! Available on various streaming devices and dvd now.

Quote
MisterDDDD

Quote
keithsman
Make your mind up MisterDDDD, just now you made it clear that the very reason she left the Stones was explained in her interview on page 1 of this thread.
After pointing that out to me, you now say its because of the success of her film.

Do you have to keep playing Devils Advocate on this forum.

Tough time tracking what your putting down.
Posted a few quotes where she talked about her reasons, including timing etc., but that ended with “I think 20 Feet From Stardom opened the doors for my more complete self, after years of doing different things in different arenas,” Fischer said." [iorr.org]

Honestly thought you must not have read any of it.
Cheers.

I read it and then gave the reasons why i thought she left the Stones.
I think between Doxa and myself we have explained that there are many reasons that build up to a decision like that. I don't think its as cut and try and calculating as being down to the success a film. That is making Lisa out to be a bit more cynical than she probably is.
I'm past caring now , wish i hadn't posted at all.
Cheers.

Quote
Doxa
I did mention that in my first post here, and before me, somebody else(s) too...
- Doxa

Indeed. Several of us did.
Was trying to be general, no offense intended.

Quote
MisterDDDD

Quote
keithsman
Lisa . Part of the problem, Fischer said, was that the Rolling Stones required her to be in each city on their tours a day prior to the show. That type of commitment — three days for one show, which is totally understandable, Fischer said, given the size of the operation — didn’t leave much room for her solo career.sa "

Why put words into Lisa's mouth , she didn't say the reason she left the Stones was because of the success of the film.
I doubt many Stones concert goers went to see that film let alone heard of it, i certainly hadn't heard about it. It's independent of the Stones, personally i think the reason people go to see Lisa or Bernard live is because they have become famous through the Stones.

Umm, Words in her mouth?
I quoted her.

You really should read the article.
And maybe even see the film, took my wife and daughter when it opened it was
fantastic!! Available on various streaming devices and dvd now.

You took pieces of her interview and gave the impression that Lisa said she left the Stones because of the success of her film. She was actually saying she was exhausted combining the Stones with her solo career and then went on to talk about the shows she was performing with her own band Grand Baton before she left the Stones and since.
That is not saying she left because of the success of the film no matter what way you spin it.
Perhaps you should read the interview again

Quote
keithsman

Quote
MisterDDDD

Quote
keithsman
Make your mind up MisterDDDD, just now you made it clear that the very reason she left the Stones was explained in her interview on page 1 of this thread.
After pointing that out to me, you now say its because of the success of her film.

Do you have to keep playing Devils Advocate on this forum.

Tough time tracking what your putting down.
Posted a few quotes where she talked about her reasons, including timing etc., but that ended with “I think 20 Feet From Stardom opened the doors for my more complete self, after years of doing different things in different arenas,” Fischer said." [iorr.org]

Honestly thought you must not have read any of it.
Cheers.

I read it and then gave the reasons why i thought she left the Stones.
I think between Doxa and myself we have explained that there are many reasons that build up to a decision like that. I don't think its as cut and try and calculating as being down to the success a film. That is making Lisa out to be a bit more cynical than she probably is.
I'm past caring now , wish i hadn't posted at all.
Cheers.

Oh no, please do not - neither of you - take this too seriously about who is right or wrong. I really appreciate the contributions of both of you here. Besides we all are in the same side of a battle - that of rejecting the instant interpretion that the ruthless, calculative, merciless Jagger just kicked her out because she wasn't 'fitting' (whatever that supposed to be) any longer. As far as I can see, we at least here are discussing the departure from the right angle... that of thinking about Lisa's motives and reasons.. (though, I need to admit, one of the writers here I always read very carefully and respect, Rocky Dijon, seems to be on the other side....)

- Doxa

Quote
keithsman
...personally i think the reason people go to see Lisa or Bernard live is because they have become famous through the Stones.

Probably true, and why else would they? Maybe Lisa still has fans of her solo album from 1991? I can't be sure, but I don't think very many non-Stones fans who actually saw the film suddenly decided they wanted to become a fan and pay to see her sing cover tunes. Seeing as the film was successful, seems that would have been a great opportunity to re-establish herself with some new recorded music of her own. But instead she's out there with a band doing Led Zeppelin and Police covers? As for me, I haven't seen either of them outside the Stones as their acts really aren't my cup of tea, just as I wouldn't bother to see Karl Denson, but to each their own.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
MisterDDDD

Quote
Doxa
I did mention that in my first post here, and before me, somebody else(s) too...
- Doxa

Indeed. Several of us did.
Was trying to be general, no offense intended.

Haha, no offense at all. One of those (many) moments my vanity took over... An unnecessary reminder from my side...

- Doxa

To celebrate the topic figure of this thread and my 11000th post - that's a lot of bullshit, right? - in this site (after it felt down in 2005), I try to post here a clip of what I think is the best singular, at least documented, performance by the 'modern' (post-1989 that is) Stones. And not the least due to a certain Miss Fischer. Usually I am not that fond of these modern 'replica' versions, but this one is simply 'out of space', getting 'transcental' (a term I choose to use usually only in the context of Taylor era live performances). It gives me chills every time I listen it - or actually listen and watch it. Yeah, it is both the visual and the sonical experience when the the aesthetical statement of the Stones really hits home. Especially true here.

Let's see if I can make it. I haven't posted clips for years here, so I am not sure how to do it. Any case, it is "Gimme Shelter" from Paradiso 1995. All of you, of course, know it...

[www.youtube.com]

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Stoneage
Important contribution? She was a backup singer. There are thousands of those. Her real contribution was her sex appeal. Sex always sells. Especially to a male dominated audience.

No, she was not just any back up singer - she actually lifted that role to a level that that she became a star and an icon in that field of art. And she did it with the people who are most charismatic live performers the business knows - creating a natural, recognizable role for herself in the show - even without the ring-master minding her taking some of the spotlight. It was no any surprise that when they made a great film about those 'twenty feet from stardom' back up singers, she was the biggest name of them all. True that sex appeal was a big part of it, but that's not a crime when she is sharing the stage with people like Mick Jagger. The Stones themselves are not the ones with anti-sex appeal - or the 'image' or 'charisma' to make it more acceptable to male non-gay audiences - as one part of their charm either... But I think that dimension finally became the reason for her 'fall'...

I think your remark about there being "thousands of them", and she not making any substantial or individual difference, reminds me of certain people sometimes ignoring the idiosyncratic contribution of Mick Taylor to the Stones. He was a thing called "lead guitarist", but playing flashy guitar solos - the argument goes - isn't really 'essential' to the Stones 'sound'. Any compotent British guitar could have done that and the Stones masterpieces would have sounded exactly same (and there were many of them, and even more since then). But it - flashy guitar solos - sells nicely, especially to certain a male dominated audience. But for trained Stones fan ears, all of us 'weavers' fans, that is/was cheap...

- Doxa

Sure. Still, there are thousands of girls who could have replaced her. Who could sing (or wail...) just as good as her or even better.
The difference she made was that she introduced sex (appeal) to the act. Just by her sheer appearance. That was something new to a Stones audience.

Quote
Doxa
To celebrate the topic figure of this thread and my 11000th post - that's a lot of bullshit, right? - in this site (after it felt down in 2005), I try to post here a clip of what I think is the best singular, at least documented, performance by the 'modern' (post-1989 that is) Stones. And not the least due to a certain Miss Fischer. Usually I am not that fond of these modern 'replica' versions, but this one is simply 'out of space', getting 'transcental' (a term I choose to use usually only in the context of Taylor era live performances). It gives me chills every time I listen it - or actually listen and watch it. Yeah, it is both the visual and the sonical experience when the the aesthetical statement of the Stones really hits home. Especially true here.

Let's see if I can make it. I haven't posted clips for years here, so I am not sure how to do it. Any case, it is "Gimme Shelter" from Paradiso 1995. All of you, of course, know it...

[www.youtube.com]

- Doxa

Yay 11000 posts , that's like 110000 of anyone else's right

Yes Doxa that is definitely the best modern era GS, its the whole band too, Ronnie although drinking is spell bounding on this with his weaving with Keith at its brilliant best. I can't count the times i have watched this version, i still can't get enough of it, it melts and molds into this oneness with the musicians and Mick's vocal and then the high point, Lisa hits that note she has never been able to find since. Truly amazing just as the Mick Taylor ones were in the 70's but in a different way. Here we see the whole band being incredible, not just one guitarist.

PS. After just listening to that particular version i thought something is wrong here, there are other versions of this exact recording with Keith much higher in the mix. This is more like it but poor picture quality.
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-28 02:05 by keithsman.

Quote
Doxa
To celebrate the topic figure of this thread and my 11000th post - that's a lot of bullshit, right? - in this site (after it felt down in 2005), I try to post here a clip of what I think is the best singular, at least documented, performance by the 'modern' (post-1989 that is) Stones. And not the least due to a certain Miss Fischer. Usually I am not that fond of these modern 'replica' versions, but this one is simply 'out of space', getting 'transcental' (a term I choose to use usually only in the context of Taylor era live performances). It gives me chills every time I listen it - or actually listen and watch it. Yeah, it is both the visual and the sonical experience when the the aesthetical statement of the Stones really hits home. Especially true here.

Let's see if I can make it. I haven't posted clips for years here, so I am not sure how to do it. Any case, it is "Gimme Shelter" from Paradiso 1995. All of you, of course, know it...

[www.youtube.com]

- Doxa

Not available in my country... but Wow!!
[www.dailymotion.com]

Hadn't watched before.. Great Version (if I posted the same )

Gimme Shelter" from Paradiso 1995

YEAH!!! DOXA... tension !!! ... take no prisoners version ...



ROCKMAN

Quote
Doxa
(though, I need to admit, one of the writers here I always read very carefully and respect, Rocky Dijon, seems to be on the other side....)

- Doxa

Since you invoked my evil presence, I should clarify. I think it's possible and even likely the decision was made to replace Lisa with someone younger as Mick's foil for "Gimme Shelter." To me, that isn't misogynistic or cruel, it's a business move in an entertainment industry. If it's true, it's because Lisa's role isn't the same as Darryl or Bobby or Taylor. They can be support players without serving as eye candy as part of the act.

When Lisa and Cindy Mizelle started out in 1989 (yes, I know Lisa was there in Japan with Mick in 1988), they were selling sex as much as vocal chops. I was there third row center stage (best seats I'll ever have) a month into Steel Wheels and believe me, at 18 seeing the Stones live for the first time, those two were still a distraction (in a good way) and were pulling the energy from the audience as much as the band.

If you remember the "Mixed Emotions" music video taped during the tour rehearsals in Connecticut, you'll see Sarah Dash singing back-up (she shared vocals with Lisa during the recording sessions earlier that year). According to Bill German at the time, Sarah was expected to tour with the Stones. She didn't obviously. Why replace Sarah with Cindy? The answer is obvious if you look at both of them in 1989. It may be politically incorrect, but it's entertainment and they were putting on the best show possible.

Do I think Mick is a mustachioed pantomime villain from an old-time melodrama as a consequence? Of course not. If Lisa was let go (which is purely speculation so far as I know), it would have been understood by all as a business decision and not personal. She's a professional. She might not like it, but she would understand and even expect it.

Does that make her a liar based on her remarks to the press? Of course not. She's a professional who deals with PR. Public relations means you tell the interesting anecdote (though often false or exaggerated) or the convenient version of the story in short little sound bytes so people have something to read about or chat about. It's rare you air your dirty laundry as part of publicity since, as a wise man once said, talk is cheap.

Do I want to argue about how likely this is? No, it's speculation. It's interesting to read everyone's take. There have been good points made on both sides. I wouldn't insult Sasha and I think highly of Lisa. In fact, one night in 1989, I was very much in lust with her. And that is likely the reason why I speculate the way I do about her departure.

Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
Doxa
(though, I need to admit, one of the writers here I always read very carefully and respect, Rocky Dijon, seems to be on the other side....)

- Doxa

Since you invoked my evil presence, I should clarify. I think it's possible and even likely the decision was made to replace Lisa with someone younger as Mick's foil for "Gimme Shelter." To me, that isn't misogynistic or cruel, it's a business move in an entertainment industry. If it's true, it's because Lisa's role isn't the same as Darryl or Bobby or Taylor. They can be support players without serving as eye candy as part of the act.

When Lisa and Cindy Mizelle started out in 1989 (yes, I know Lisa was there in Japan with Mick in 1988), they were selling sex as much as vocal chops. I was there third row center stage (best seats I'll ever have) a month into Steel Wheels and believe me, at 18 seeing the Stones live for the first time, those two were still a distraction (in a good way) and were pulling the energy from the audience as much as the band.

If you remember the "Mixed Emotions" music video taped during the tour rehearsals in Connecticut, you'll see Sarah Dash singing back-up (she shared vocals with Lisa during the recording sessions earlier that year). According to Bill German at the time, Sarah was expected to tour with the Stones. She didn't obviously. Why replace Sarah with Cindy? The answer is obvious if you look at both of them in 1989. It may be politically incorrect, but it's entertainment and they were putting on the best show possible.

Do I think Mick is a mustachioed pantomime villain from an old-time melodrama as a consequence? Of course not. If Lisa was let go (which is purely speculation so far as I know), it would have been understood by all as a business decision and not personal. She's a professional. She might not like it, but she would understand and even expect it.

Does that make her a liar based on her remarks to the press? Of course not. She's a professional who deals with PR. Public relations means you tell the interesting anecdote (though often false or exaggerated) or the convenient version of the story in short little sound bytes so people have something to read about or chat about. It's rare you air your dirty laundry as part of publicity since, as a wise man once said, talk is cheap.

Do I want to argue about how likely this is? No, it's speculation. It's interesting to read everyone's take. There have been good points made on both sides. I wouldn't insult Sasha and I think highly of Lisa. In fact, one night in 1989, I was very much in lust with her. And that is likely the reason why I speculate the way I do about her departure.

There were too very sexy girls in 89' 90' if anything the other girl had better looks and voice, and if my memory serves correct they took it in turns singing the duet with Mick on Shelter. Sara Dash as you say also had a better voice more suited to the Stones but her face didn't fit as you pointed out.
So Lisa can count her lucky stars. Probably the reason why she sounds upbeat about her release, she had a good innings and can be very thankful for her time with the Stones.

I saw little signs that her days were numbered, on the last tour with the Stones Mick kept pushing is midsection into Lisa's belly in a humiliated way i thought, sort of insinuating she had a big belly in a playful way.

The other thing i noticed was that Lisa became a little too big for her boots, i think Mick wanted her to basically cover his vocals as best she can with Bernard to thicken his voice, but Lisa started to play an overpowering role at the back.

Other times spring to mind like when keith was singing a very rare and touching All About You, Lisa and Bernard came up next to keith and turned his song into a bit of lighthearted comedy, Keith didn't seem to mind but i sure did. Fans of keith had waited decades for him to sing that and maybe she didn't understand the importance of the occasion.
She would also come over to keith mid solo on Shelter and put him off his stride lol.
All these instances seem like i'm being petty but do they add up when it comes to the Stones. I think Mick and Keith can be cold and business like at times, they have that side to them as well as these geniuses that we love.
I can imagine Mick and Keith having a little chat and saying yeah, its time for some fresh blood.

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keithsman


Yes Doxa that is definitely the best modern era GS, its the whole band too, Ronnie although drinking is spell bounding on this with his weaving with Keith at its brilliant best. I can't count the times i have watched this version, i still can't get enough of it, it melts and molds into this oneness with the musicians and Mick's vocal and then the high point, Lisa hits that note she has never been able to find since. Truly amazing just as the Mick Taylor ones were in the 70's but in a different way. Here we see the whole band being incredible, not just one guitarist.

PS. After just listening to that particular version i thought something is wrong here, there are other versions of this exact recording with Keith much higher in the mix. This is more like it but poor picture quality.
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Yeah, it is the whole band indeed... one of those rare instances of modern "Shelters" I actually feel like the 'storm's threating my very life today'.. the whole majesty of this song is present there, the danger, the threat... It is my favourite Stones song, and probably for that reason, I am more than critical if I hear some 'fault play' or cheap tricks there, as it is mostly the norm - like making it a sort of cabaree or circus number (like thay've done of another dark masterpiece song, "Sympathy For The Devil" - of which I haven't really heard any truely great and thrilling modern version ever). But here they are doing real justice for this greatest rock song of all time (with Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone" me thinks).

Shit, the way Keef starts that lyrical, but most effective intro of all time - man, it is clear that very moment that now we are hitting somewhere deep and sharp. Even for maestro Richards this isn't an easy number to play - to get the right feel (which immediately sets the feel for the whole performance), even somehow technically manage to do it in a proper way, setting the tempo right (not note to note to original, but to get the electrifying impression by other means). But here, my god... this sets the whole band on fire, Ronnie included, as you say. And each note by Keith is a significant one, as the song requires it to be - simply: pure art. The interplay of Mick and Lisa is as dynamic as the interplay of Keith and Ronnie (though their interplay has changed from the busy guitar heaven of 1975 to some sort of 'elder and slower statesmen attitude here, but still, as effective), both singers giving their very, very best in every way (yeah, that high note by Lisa, daaaamn.....). Mick's been dueting with anyone, but this is the ultimate one. There is no way this could get any better. Mick and Lisa just breath the song and each other in a total synch. The term 'perfect' is not probably the best term to best suit to to describe the doings of the Stones, as someone argued here in IORR recently, but honestly, I can't imagine anything missing here - this is perfect by all means (including the mistakes if we take the guitar heroes into account).

Of Lisa: if she'd been only doing this one particular performance ever with the Stones, she still would have had a role in their history if the quality of their matters and individual highlights listed. She's simply that good here. I am sure Mary Clayton is proud of her - her original is unmatchable, but what Lisa does here by her own, idiosyncratic means is just as phenomenal and distinctive. Besides, doesn't she look hot...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-28 02:56 by Doxa.