You have to give a thumb's-up to Chris Kimsey, and Jagger, for resurrecting the tune for Tattoo You, putting the vocals on, editing it down, getting Sonny Rollins and all that. Keith didn't do it, Kimsey and Jagger did.

IMHO, if we're talking the perfect Stones tunes, I'd narrow it down to a dozen but here are the ones I think are pure Stones, i.e nobody else could've written them or performed it like our boys have done:

1. Midnight Rambler
2. Gimme Shelter
3. Honky Tonk Women
4. Tumbling Dice
5. Start Me Up
6. Street Fighting Man
7. Flash
8. Brown Sugar
9. All Down The Line ...guess the list could go on and on

I think Slave is a great track, but far from a perfect song. It has many of the right elements, but it doesn't soar melodically with a knock out chorus in that way that so many of the other Stones superhits do.

I can't imagine anyone doing a cover of this track in another musical style and still making it work in the way that BS, GS, LSTNT etc do.

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peoplewitheyes
I think Slave is a great track, but far from a perfect song. It has many of the right elements, but it doesn't soar melodically with a knock out chorus in that way that so many of the other Stones superhits do.

I can't imagine anyone doing a cover of this track in another musical style and still making it work in the way that BS, GS, LSTNT etc do.

It's interesting you can go two ways with that.

On the one hand: the fact that no other band could make it work indicates a lack of "universality" of the song. Opposite to, for instance, to some of the greatest hits of Beatles, that have a stand-alone quality.

On the other hand: what makes the Stones special is not so much the universality of their songs, as rather their grooviness and how they make certain songs work. As a matter of fact, I don't think a lot of bands could top JJF, GS, HTW or Tumbling Dice (to name just a few, I might as well put here the list of MadMax's post above and add at least 25 more). In that respect Slave is the perfect Stones song exactly because no other band could make it work.

I didn't say that anyone could 'top' the Stones with those songs,I just think that they are better 'songs' than slave, that could work well in other genres - thus illustrating their greatness as songs.

In other works, they are such excellent songs that they could work quite well in other genres. Slave not so much (or, at all).

If the question was about Slave being the perfect Stones jam, or sound, or even production, then maybe I could agree. But best 'song'? No chance!

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The Sicilian

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Kingbeebuzz
The answer to the question (Is "Slave" the perfect Stones song?) is.........No!

Please elaborate on your reasoning.

Not much to elaborate on. It isn't.

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LeonidP

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The Sicilian

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Kingbeebuzz
The answer to the question (Is "Slave" the perfect Stones song?) is.........No!

Please elaborate on your reasoning.

Not much to elaborate on. It isn't.

Fine, I'm interested to hear why. Enlighten us on your perspective.

I agree that there is no way one can pick ONE perfect Stones cut, but I have always thought that the studio version of "ROCKS OFF" sure comes close.

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The Sicilian

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LeonidP

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The Sicilian

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Kingbeebuzz
The answer to the question (Is "Slave" the perfect Stones song?) is.........No!

Please elaborate on your reasoning.

Not much to elaborate on. It isn't.

Fine, I'm interested to hear why. Enlighten us on your perspective.

Well if someone claims that Wham is the perfect band, would it be necessary to say that The Beatles were more perfect? ... Either way, I did comment on page 1.

No. It's just a repetitious warm up and jam

Rod

The riff is more adventurous and advanced than most of the Stones-classics. And the «free form jazz»-approach is up there with that of CYHMK, imo.

It's indeed a long jam, but they really filled it with purpose, beautiful details and exciting stuff. The drive is there all the way. The sound of the recording is marvellous.

It's also different, with the rap and the structure of the vocals. However, it remains an album track for a reason. It's not for the masses. Still, it's one of their best deep cuts, I'd say.

As a recording it's perfect. As a song it's on par with CYHMK.

But it's not on the level of Moonlight Mile, Monkey Man, All About You, Can You Hear The Music, She's A Rainbow or I Am Waiting, or other brilliant oddball songs

The riff is one of their best. And more complicated than one might think. A good example of how their best, Keiths best at least, were minimalistic and not at all about blasting out sus chords in open g tuning.

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Redhotcarpet
The riff is one of their best. And more complicated than one might think. A good example of how their best, Keiths best at least, were minimalistic and not at all about blasting out sus chords in open g tuning.

Very good point. One of my favorite Keith riffs, is the guitar part in the bridge/breakdown of "If you can't rock me". You can not really experience it on the studio rendition; it comes in at 1:33, but here Keith actually breaks the phrase up between the main guitar and ( I believe) the clavinet. The clavinet plays the answering phrase.
But on the Live version that riff is all one guitar, and is actually even a bit more expanded. Plus it takes center stage; completely over rides that Bass line.
That is no Open G etc. It is that great, great two-stringing on the lower register, A and D and G string type stuff, which is rhythmic, but not in a BEAT kind of way. It is more like talking. It is like da-da-DAH-duh, with minimal variation in notes. Just very cool. To me that was always some of Keith's most iconic playing. "Jivin Sister Fanny', Criss Cross, Before they make me run. And maybe the best was "Let me Go" on the 81 live stages.

Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts kick ass on this one. Jagger's falsetto, Sonny Rollins Sax, Billy Preston's keyboards. A true heavy weight performance all around. Everything just clicks.

I have no idea why they never played it live, but it would be at the top of my "Songs they never played live list".

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DandelionPowderman
The riff is more adventurous and advanced than most of the Stones-classics. And the «free form jazz»-approach is up there with that of CYHMK, imo.

It's indeed a long jam, but they really filled it with purpose, beautiful details and exciting stuff. The drive is there all the way. The sound of the recording is marvellous.

It's also different, with the rap and the structure of the vocals. However, it remains an album track for a reason. It's not for the masses. Still, it's one of their best deep cuts, I'd say.

As a recording it's perfect. As a song it's on par with CYHMK.

But it's not on the level of Moonlight Mile, Monkey Man, All About You, Can You Hear The Music, She's A Rainbow or I Am Waiting, or other brilliant oddball songs

"Can you hear the music" better than "Slave"? Are you kidding.

I think it’s something like 97 on The Rolling Stone magazine list of top 100 Stones songs. That always struck me as generous. It’s a jam, not a song.

It’s not even in the top 3 on the album on which it appeared.

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The Sicilian

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DandelionPowderman
The riff is more adventurous and advanced than most of the Stones-classics. And the «free form jazz»-approach is up there with that of CYHMK, imo.

It's indeed a long jam, but they really filled it with purpose, beautiful details and exciting stuff. The drive is there all the way. The sound of the recording is marvellous.

It's also different, with the rap and the structure of the vocals. However, it remains an album track for a reason. It's not for the masses. Still, it's one of their best deep cuts, I'd say.

As a recording it's perfect. As a song it's on par with CYHMK.

But it's not on the level of Moonlight Mile, Monkey Man, All About You, Can You Hear The Music, She's A Rainbow or I Am Waiting, or other brilliant oddball songs

"Can you hear the music" better than "Slave"? Are you kidding.

As far as songwriting goes, yes it is, imo.

I would put Time Waits For No One as one of their brilliant oddball songs..

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Maindefender
I would put Time Waits For No One as one of their brilliant oddball songs..

As far as best oddball songs go, I'd think it would be a competition between "Heaven", "Citadel" and maybe "Melody".
"Slave" is a jam, but many great songs can be based on one simple theme, so it's not really an argument in not calling it a song.

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matxil

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Maindefender
I would put Time Waits For No One as one of their brilliant oddball songs..

As far as best oddball songs go, I'd think it would be a competition between "Heaven", "Citadel" and maybe "Melody".
"Slave" is a jam, but many great songs can be based on one simple theme, so it's not really an argument in not calling it a song.

Although there are psychedelic elements in Citadel, in many ways it also represents the start of the riff-heavy Stones rocker. So, it's both oddball and what we now would describe as traditional-sounding, imo

Citadel, in many ways it also represents the start of the riff-heavy Stones rocker.

Yeah ... you say that again ....



ROCKMAN

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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Maindefender
I would put Time Waits For No One as one of their brilliant oddball songs..

As far as best oddball songs go, I'd think it would be a competition between "Heaven", "Citadel" and maybe "Melody".
"Slave" is a jam, but many great songs can be based on one simple theme, so it's not really an argument in not calling it a song.

Although there are psychedelic elements in Citadel, in many ways it also represents the start of the riff-heavy Stones rocker. So, it's both oddball and what we now would describe as traditional-sounding, imo

You're right, that's true.
Then again, you might argue that there is also a certain Keith-like-rhythm-touch in Heaven which is very typical Stones-y. (I know it's not him, actually, I saw on the internet that both Mick and Bill play the electric guitar on this one, so who of them plays the most prominent guitar?)

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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Maindefender
I would put Time Waits For No One as one of their brilliant oddball songs..

As far as best oddball songs go, I'd think it would be a competition between "Heaven", "Citadel" and maybe "Melody".
"Slave" is a jam, but many great songs can be based on one simple theme, so it's not really an argument in not calling it a song.

Although there are psychedelic elements in Citadel, in many ways it also represents the start of the riff-heavy Stones rocker. So, it's both oddball and what we now would describe as traditional-sounding, imo

You're right, that's true. (Although, coming to think of it, I'm not sure about it being the *first* riff-heavy rocker. Last Time, Satisfaction, Get Off Of My Cloud are riff-heavy too, no?)

Then again, you might argue that there is also a certain Keith-like-rhythm-touch in Heaven which is very typical Stones-y. (I know it's not him, actually, I saw on the internet that both Mick and Bill play the electric guitar on this one, so who of them plays the most prominent guitar?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-22 13:31 by matxil.

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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Maindefender
I would put Time Waits For No One as one of their brilliant oddball songs..

As far as best oddball songs go, I'd think it would be a competition between "Heaven", "Citadel" and maybe "Melody".
"Slave" is a jam, but many great songs can be based on one simple theme, so it's not really an argument in not calling it a song.

Although there are psychedelic elements in Citadel, in many ways it also represents the start of the riff-heavy Stones rocker. So, it's both oddball and what we now would describe as traditional-sounding, imo

You're right, that's true. (Although, coming to think of it, I'm not sure about it being the *first* riff-heavy rocker. Last Time, Satisfaction, Get Off Of My Cloud are riff-heavy too, no?)

Then again, you might argue that there is also a certain Keith-like-rhythm-touch in Heaven which is very typical Stones-y. (I know it's not him, actually, I saw on the internet that both Mick and Bill play the electric guitar on this one, so who of them plays the most prominent guitar?)

I should have written «heavy riff-rocker», actually.

The songs you mention all rely on the riff, but with songs like Citadel, Child Of The Moon and JJF more strings were involved, and the rock'n'roll got heavier

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MisterO
Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts kick ass on this one. Jagger's falsetto, Sonny Rollins Sax, Billy Preston's keyboards. A true heavy weight performance all around. Everything just clicks.

I have no idea why they never played it live, but it would be at the top of my "Songs they never played live list".

Add Time Waits for No One, and Topps...and that's a show of a lifetime...

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MisterO
Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts kick ass on this one. Jagger's falsetto, Sonny Rollins Sax, Billy Preston's keyboards. A true heavy weight performance all around. Everything just clicks.

I have no idea why they never played it live, but it would be at the top of my "Songs they never played live list".

In Four Flicks, we saw them rehearsing it on the Licks Tour. Sounded like it could have worked very well live1

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

In terms of musical performance it is probably as good as any stones track but the song itself is a long way behind their best. Its more of a jam and in that regard is similar to some of the stuff on Exile (Shake Your Hips etc) although the production is much cleaner and more crisp (not necessarily better - depends on taste). You could make a case for it being one of their best grooves - love the spaces in the main riff where the drums punch thru.

I would love to hear a few of these "jam" types of tracks played over the PA after the support acts have finished on the next tour - they would be a killer way to get the crowd going before the Stones come on stage.

'Hip Shake' now there's a great St ones track

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Palace Revolution 2000
'Hip Shake' now there's a great St ones track

It is! ... Listening to Exile right now, Casino Boogie is on.

Hand of Fate