I was pissed when Bill left. Then I heard Voodoo Lounge and thought they'd be okay because Darryl basically sounded like Bill on songs like Love Is Strong and You Got Me Rocking. Then something happened, stubbornness, laziness, was told not to by 'the boys', who knows. Darryl's playing rapidly deteriorated within the group and never picked back up again. I think Bill's playing suffered a little bit in the late 60s, but he came roaring back, getting better and better, and was a main part of their sound from Miss You through Harlem Shuffle. I can listen to Start Me Up and analyze all the different little things Bill did to push the song forward. I cannot think of one Darryl Jones cut on a Stones song where I hear anything above what a run of the mill bass player would add. And, on stage, Darryl almost stubbornly won't put those little classic bass notes where they belong on songs. I ask, seriously, any of those who claim to prefer Darryl, what exactly it is about his playing they prefer.

Bill is different in that he's in the DNA of the group. His contribution to the chemistry is inescapable. They all grew up together as musicians. Brian was the most advanced when they first formed, but the others caught up and eventually passed Brian as he lost interest, laziness, drug addled, whatever. I used to watch my Four Flicks and The Biggest Bang DVD sets regularly. Then they started releasing vintage product with Bill playing on basically the same songs, and I haven't watched 4Flicks and Bigger B DVDs since. They are a fully functioning, fully contributing band with Bill. He was their anchor. Darryl by comparison is just kind of off to the side going through the motions. Yeah, Keith smiles at him a lot as if something is happening, but that's because Bill was an equal and didn't have to smile at any of them.

Look, Bill didn't want to stay. He looks kind of disengaged on the Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tours, but he could still be brilliant at times, like Harlem Shuffle on the Tokyo DVD. Yes, the Stones were a lesser group after his departure. Yes, they had continued success, especially as a live act, but that's more to do with no competition. I guess the most noticeable difference is that without Bill the Stones don't hit you in the gut anymore. Bill is a rocker, Darryl is a jazzer. Keith understands, and said so, basically calling Bill THE Stones bass player.

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geordiestone

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Olly
It's unfortunate for Wyman's legacy that the beginning of the Stones' best era as a live act coincided with him leaving the band.

Would we have had those swaggering, uninhibited performances during 1994/5 with a motionless Wyman onstage?

Bill's departure seemed to release the Stones back to their roots.

A capable bassist, but Darryl Jones is a far better fit for the band.

Yup

Nope

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MidnightPeanut
IMO they lost a bit of their magic when Bill left. I miss his wobble. While DJ is obviously talented, it hasn't been the same for me since.

The term "wobble" is a great description of what Bill brought to the Stones' sound. In a positive way, of course.

"No Anchovies, Please"

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DandelionPowderman

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Rocky Dijon

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DandelionPowderman
Soon it's been 27 years without Bill Wyman, not 25. He quit in 1991, and didn't join the band for making the Highwire and Sex Drive-videos.

And Darryl joined in 1993, or 1994?

Darryl joined in 1993 if we count the recording sessions. Bill is indeed part of the "Sex Drive" music video. Perhaps you were distracted by the models. I'm sure Bill was.

Then it was Highwire

As he explained in that 1991 French interview for Stone Alone [www.youtube.com], he couldn't be present for the filming of that one music video because he had to be elsewhere for legal proceedings relating to the termination of his marriage to Mandy Smith. He still played on the studio recording, didn't he?

Below, Bill Wyman on September 1, 1991.


It's been 25 years since Bill Wyman announced he was leaving the band: [www.youtube.com]

Mick Jagger revealed the impending move in December 1992, and Bill admits he told the band in 1991 that he wasn't interested in carrying on. But why make an announcement before further band activity, until one is sure there is still something left to leave?

So, officially, in the eyes of the public, Bill was a Rolling Stone from 1962 to 1993, or 30 years -- 25 years ago now.

Maybe Darryl is technically better, that's not what music is about...
He should stop doing bass-solo's.... don't like that.

I miss Bill's swing and sound...
Bill and Charlie together were incredible great!!

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman

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Rocky Dijon

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DandelionPowderman
Soon it's been 27 years without Bill Wyman, not 25. He quit in 1991, and didn't join the band for making the Highwire and Sex Drive-videos.

And Darryl joined in 1993, or 1994?

Darryl joined in 1993 if we count the recording sessions. Bill is indeed part of the "Sex Drive" music video. Perhaps you were distracted by the models. I'm sure Bill was.

Then it was Highwire

As he explained in that 1991 French interview for Stone Alone [www.youtube.com], he couldn't be present for the filming of that one music video because he had to be elsewhere for legal proceedings relating to the termination of his marriage to Mandy Smith. He still played on the studio recording, didn't he?

Below, Bill Wyman on September 1, 1991.


It's been 25 years since Bill Wyman announced he was leaving the band: [www.youtube.com]

Mick Jagger revealed the impending move in December 1992, and Bill admits he told the band in 1991 that he wasn't interested in carrying on. But why make an announcement before further band activity, until one is sure there is still something left to leave?

So, officially, in the eyes of the public, Bill was a Rolling Stone from 1962 to 1993, or 30 years -- 25 years ago now.

He he, he quit in 1991, but it became public in 1993. Hence, it's almost 27 years without Bill.

^^^ But you didn't hear about it until 1993 -- up until then, you thought Bill was still a Rolling Stone.

So, 25 years without Bill.

Wyman never stood out much to me. I rarely think of him with the albums he's on. That includes Ron Wood also but that's because I can't tell Wood from Richards.

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24FPS
I was pissed when Bill left. Then I heard Voodoo Lounge and thought they'd be okay because Darryl basically sounded like Bill on songs like Love Is Strong and You Got Me Rocking. Then something happened, stubbornness, laziness, was told not to by 'the boys', who knows. Darryl's playing rapidly deteriorated within the group and never picked back up again. I think Bill's playing suffered a little bit in the late 60s, but he came roaring back, getting better and better, and was a main part of their sound from Miss You through Harlem Shuffle. I can listen to Start Me Up and analyze all the different little things Bill did to push the song forward. I cannot think of one Darryl Jones cut on a Stones song where I hear anything above what a run of the mill bass player would add. And, on stage, Darryl almost stubbornly won't put those little classic bass notes where they belong on songs. I ask, seriously, any of those who claim to prefer Darryl, what exactly it is about his playing they prefer.

Bill is different in that he's in the DNA of the group. His contribution to the chemistry is inescapable. They all grew up together as musicians. Brian was the most advanced when they first formed, but the others caught up and eventually passed Brian as he lost interest, laziness, drug addled, whatever. I used to watch my Four Flicks and The Biggest Bang DVD sets regularly. Then they started releasing vintage product with Bill playing on basically the same songs, and I haven't watched 4Flicks and Bigger B DVDs since. They are a fully functioning, fully contributing band with Bill. He was their anchor. Darryl by comparison is just kind of off to the side going through the motions. Yeah, Keith smiles at him a lot as if something is happening, but that's because Bill was an equal and didn't have to smile at any of them.

Look, Bill didn't want to stay. He looks kind of disengaged on the Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tours, but he could still be brilliant at times, like Harlem Shuffle on the Tokyo DVD. Yes, the Stones were a lesser group after his departure. Yes, they had continued success, especially as a live act, but that's more to do with no competition. I guess the most noticeable difference is that without Bill the Stones don't hit you in the gut anymore. Bill is a rocker, Darryl is a jazzer. Keith understands, and said so, basically calling Bill THE Stones bass player.

Great post, I totally agree.

For sure they are lacking without Bill. Was listening to some boots from 73 and 78 this week ans even commented to my wife that Bill builds a floor for the music.

Jones is fine, just not Bill Wyman.

When Bill Wyman left the Stones I was a boy, and I was sad when he left - looking back I admire his decision: He got himself a new life, since "he definetly did not wanted to be a Stone anymore." Darryl Jones does a great job since Voodoo Lounge, and yes: There were terrific concerts between 1969 and 1973, in 1978, some good ones in 1981/81 - 75/76 was mostly horrible, bad playing, stupid shouting and riding on a penis. As a live band the Stones had stellar moments in the nineties.

Ben waters played great last night ... Now on to Festival and pizza ... BIG LAUGHS



ROCKMAN

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dave9199
Wyman never stood out much to me. I rarely think of him with the albums he's on. That includes Ron Wood also but that's because I can't tell Wood from Richards.

Really? You don't hear him on Miss You? He's only like 90% of the music you remember from the song. Start Me Up? The song really gets fun when Bill comes in. Bitch? Darryl is almost forced to play the right notes on Bitch because it's so integral to the song. Just My Imagination? Under My Thumb? Hell, the spine to Satisfaction is Bill's counter melody. Monkey Man? His Bo Diddley bombs on 19th Nervous Breakdown? His delicate shadings on No Expectations and Angie? His tour de force on Harlem Shuffle? No? I can understand Ron Wood not standing out, his very style seems based on Keith, but Bill? Distinctive. He could do more with one note than Darryl doing his Stanley Clarke imitation for an hour.

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24FPS

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dave9199
Wyman never stood out much to me. I rarely think of him with the albums he's on. That includes Ron Wood also but that's because I can't tell Wood from Richards.

Really? You don't hear him on Miss You? He's only like 90% of the music you remember from the song. Start Me Up? The song really gets fun when Bill comes in. Bitch? Darryl is almost forced to play the right notes on Bitch because it's so integral to the song. Just My Imagination? Under My Thumb? Hell, the spine to Satisfaction is Bill's counter melody. Monkey Man? His Bo Diddley bombs on 19th Nervous Breakdown? His delicate shadings on No Expectations and Angie? His tour de force on Harlem Shuffle? No? I can understand Ron Wood not standing out, his very style seems based on Keith, but Bill? Distinctive. He could do more with one note than Darryl doing his Stanley Clarke imitation for an hour.

Beautiful appreciation of Bill's work. Thank you.

Apparently, Mick and Charlie called Bill on the eve of rehearsals for the Voodoo Lounge tour, to attempt one last time to get him to rejoin.
Sounds like they were getting cold feet about having another bass player.

The Stones are a unique musical dynamic in rock. Everything centers around Keith. Charlie follows Keith, but is also there for Mick. Bill, by his own admission, played slightly ahead of the beat - which is what gave them their driving, but slightly loose groove - but even though Bill is kind of leading, he's still following, slinking around between Keith & Charlie (and MT or Ronnie) (does that make sense?).

On the Ya Ya's live version of 'Sympathy for the Devil', Bill is much more intertwined with Keith on his solo, than Mick Taylor's. Makes sense since Taylor was pretty new to the band, but also, I think he rips so hard, Bill gives him more room to do so.

After playing bass in a Stones tribute band for 7 years, I can say Bill and Darrell are like night & day. Darrell is more behind or under the groove, which gives everything a nice jazzy r&b flavour, but is lacking in drive.
They probably like Darrell in their old age now - because he keeps things generally restrained, so they don't have to constantly pump so hard.

Bill shines on the recent Mono remasters. Charlie loves jazz and Darryl played with Miles so Darryl it is. Bill left a hole, all due respects to Darryl.

When I listen to the stones with Bill and I focus on the bass, it is obvious that Wyman's playing participated in creating a special groove in those songs. Yes many people have played bass on a variety of stones' songs and those songs are great too. But Bill's style is very peculiar, very melodic, witty and playful. Bill has a impressive knowledge of the root music that is the foundation of the rolling stones's music. In that regard he was on the traditionalist side with Keef.But whenpushcometoshove, Bill could wipe out some up to date shit like the bass line in "Miss you". I believe that it was good for Bill to leave because he did so many great things after he left the band.As far as for the band, I don't know if that was good or bad.
Rockandroll,
Mops



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-09 03:20 by rollmops.

My favorite tour was 1981, having Darryl would have ruined the sound.....


IMHO Bill > Darryl

I don't miss him at all.

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24FPS
I was pissed when Bill left. Then I heard Voodoo Lounge and thought they'd be okay because Darryl basically sounded like Bill on songs like Love Is Strong and You Got Me Rocking. Then something happened, stubbornness, laziness, was told not to by 'the boys', who knows. Darryl's playing rapidly deteriorated within the group and never picked back up again. I think Bill's playing suffered a little bit in the late 60s, but he came roaring back, getting better and better, and was a main part of their sound from Miss You through Harlem Shuffle. I can listen to Start Me Up and analyze all the different little things Bill did to push the song forward. I cannot think of one Darryl Jones cut on a Stones song where I hear anything above what a run of the mill bass player would add. And, on stage, Darryl almost stubbornly won't put those little classic bass notes where they belong on songs. I ask, seriously, any of those who claim to prefer Darryl, what exactly it is about his playing they prefer.

Bill is different in that he's in the DNA of the group. His contribution to the chemistry is inescapable. They all grew up together as musicians. Brian was the most advanced when they first formed, but the others caught up and eventually passed Brian as he lost interest, laziness, drug addled, whatever. I used to watch my Four Flicks and The Biggest Bang DVD sets regularly. Then they started releasing vintage product with Bill playing on basically the same songs, and I haven't watched 4Flicks and Bigger B DVDs since. They are a fully functioning, fully contributing band with Bill. He was their anchor. Darryl by comparison is just kind of off to the side going through the motions. Yeah, Keith smiles at him a lot as if something is happening, but that's because Bill was an equal and didn't have to smile at any of them.

Look, Bill didn't want to stay. He looks kind of disengaged on the Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tours, but he could still be brilliant at times, like Harlem Shuffle on the Tokyo DVD. Yes, the Stones were a lesser group after his departure. Yes, they had continued success, especially as a live act, but that's more to do with no competition. I guess the most noticeable difference is that without Bill the Stones don't hit you in the gut anymore. Bill is a rocker, Darryl is a jazzer. Keith understands, and said so, basically calling Bill THE Stones bass player.

I thought this a pointless thread until I read your comment. You are spot on about everything!

It's still pointless to argue who is the better bass player. Better in what?! Bill's playing is what gave the groove to Start Me Up. Listen to it one more time, and pay attention to the bass. The interesting thing is that it fits the song so perfectly that you don't even realize how well it drives the song. I don't know who else could have come up with such a bass line. Darryl hasn't come with anything where I would say that he contributed to a song in an original and unique way. Darryl is by no means a bad bass player, and he is a nice guy. He just doesn't play like Bill. Even Bill discussed this after the London gig where he joined the Stones for two songs.

Bob Dylan said The Rolling Stones are a mere “funk band” without Wyman on board. You gotta believe Bob.

[Dylan on Wyman]

No offense to bass players, but...it's the bass. You gotta really listen for it to even hear the line most of the time. Not saying it's not important, but it's almost subconscious. As long as someone keeps good time and stays in the pocket, does it really matter that much?

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Send It To me
No offense to bass players, but...it's the bass. You gotta really listen for it to even hear the line most of the time. Not saying it's not important, but it's almost subconscious.
As long as someone keeps good time and stays in the pocket, does it really matter that much?

That's like saying saccharine and sugar are both sweet, so does it really matter which one you use in your coffee?
I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind an artificial ingredient/substitute, but if you really let your taste buds function, there is an obvious difference.
Sugar is an organic natural substance that is smooth and subtle and blends well with other ingredients, while saccharine is a chemical that can be abrasive and has no food energy or any nutritional value.
Based on what's been written in this thread, it seems clear to most that Bill is the sugar of the Stones.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Send It To me
No offense to bass players, but...it's the bass. You gotta really listen for it to even hear the line most of the time. Not saying it's not important, but it's almost subconscious. As long as someone keeps good time and stays in the pocket, does it really matter that much?

Maybe we're the cursed ones. The bass matters. We hear it, we feel it, we know what it does. We know the masters of bottom melody are Jamerson, Dunn, Wyman, McCartney. (Yes, Entwistle was different, and Bruce was brilliant, but they almost seemed like second guitarists in a power trio). One of my fondest memories is playing pool in 1971 in a bar, the jukebox playing Brown Sugar. Because the jukebox was shoved up against the wall the bass was vibrating. Had a similar experience with 96 Tears by Mark & the Mysterians.

It could just be that some ears are more sensitive. I was always good on music memory tests. (But I can't play a lick). I really began to pick out separate instruments while trying to decipher what the hell was being sung on Louie Louie. Over the years I learned to appreciate good bass and what it does. Maybe that's the difference, 'Send It To Me'. Darryl and Wyman filled your bill because they both stayed in the pocket. But Bill did so much more.

Bill was a very varied player (in the Stones), as opposed to Darryl, whom I would meanwhile rather rate as flat. Bill often used to play quite astonishing things, which however melded perfectly into the overall sound of the band. Maybe that's why he is not oerceived as "standing out". Most obviously he is missed in Miss You (no pun intended). Just compare any version of Miss You with Bill with those that have Darryl. Bill gave Miss You soul, Darryl gives Miss You just the most boring bass solo on record.

I have no judgement of his work with the Rhythm Kings, I hardly know any of it.

Musicwise I would prefer for him to have stayed in the Stones (although he certainly had his good reasons to leave). However, I don't know if Bill's physical condition would still allow for touring (he's 82, after all).

“25 Years without Bill”’ I had 27 Years with Bill since 1964, the era of the best Albums, so I can’t complain and you can still go out and see The Stones with Darryl as a bonus.

Bill left when the Stones all should have stopped. It was certainly the best decision for himself and he never showed any sign of regretting it.
As for the Stones, at around the time Bill left, they had stopped to be an artistic source to be reckoned with (the last time that happened was TY - or maybe Undercover, more than 10 years earlier!) and their live acts started to be a streamlined stadium act instead of a loose rock n roll groove act. So it's impossible to compare Bill's qualities with Daryl Jones's. In the studio, there is no space now for experiments with the bass anymore and live, the bass (and guitars, for that matter, which is much worse) are there to add a little bit to the basic sound layer of the keyboards and backing vocals.

I think 24fps nailed it for me in several posts on this thread.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 04:36 by hopkins.

More and more, when i listen to the stones i hear bill's bass. This started with the 1981 tour,when he was a real "mick taylor" of bass guitar!
Hampton is the summit, the one in bootleg, not the remastered.
On that one we can really hear that bill was a real genius.

When the whip, imagination, bleed, YCAGWYW, this is just magic!

Listen to el mocombo, woodstock rehearsals, 1981 concerts... bill shines!
He was a kind of spark in stones music!even on albums: she was hot, angie, start me up, miss you...

Since darryl, the bass line is so boring... nothing to listen to.

Bill Wyman, we definitly miss you!

Well, Bill's swinging bass lines I've been missing defintely! But to be honest, I can't imagine that he's still able to deliver this bass playing anymore.
Saw him three times with his band the RK and all I've to say that his playing has changed a lot but not for the better!

Darry is doing really a good job, so it's what you can expect from a hired musician. But nothing more, because he's not an official band member.

Keep on rollin'
Gangster

Ive seen Darryl with Miles in '85, his "punch" and swing was great.There are also a few live recordings with the Stones where he comes very close to Bill's sound. So the difference is not caused by "Bill versus Daryl", but merely created by Charlie, Keith and Mick who asked Darryl for a certain sound, a different generation player, and probably some musical ideas. Otherwise the Stones had chosen for a more simple rock-pure Bill-alike cement sound. To me Mick Taylor's departure / mis-replacement was a bigger loss. Conclusion:I don't miss Bill.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-09 14:38 by TheflyingDutchman.