Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
24FPS
You're right. I'm sorry. They were only intimating sex with an underage, illegal 15-year-old and not an underage, illegal 13-year old.

Well, much as I love Bard, the humor in the line isn't without real world application to their life and just about every 1960s pop band. Of course, there's a difference between Brian Jones, for example, and a teenage groupie and middle-aged Bill Wyman going round to a private club with Julian Temple where stage mothers bring their teenage daughters for a chance at being noticed for a modeling or singing career. That's illegal and immoral and has been part of show business for at least a century and is just as active today. At least it wasn't Roman Polanski territory so far as we know.

What about stars who take on teenage wards so they can avoid arrest? They have parental consent. Money changes hands and the law leaves them alone. Elvis, Jerry Lee, Jimmy Page, Steven Tyler, and Graham Chapman belong to that list. Is it immoral? Sure. Is it illegal? Maybe.

We all understand "I Saw Her Standing There" and "Little Queenie" and "Sweet Little Sixteen" and "Summer Romance" and "So Young." That's illegal, but the allure is acceptable in Western culture. Men are attracted to teenage girls who are full of hormones and sex appeal. It's wrong for coaches in schools, but understandable for rock stars or those who "just look." At the same time reverse the genders and there's a different reaction. Young boys who have sex with hot female teachers are lucky, while we're protective of young girls in the same situation. Nabokov and Sting make us uncomfortable. If "Don't Stand So Close to Me" was a backstage encounter at a concert, it wouldn't have the same forbidden fruit aspect. Joan Jett in a band called The Runaways was fine. Imagine if Jim Carroll had been more mainstream? We're not fine with predatory gay sex with underage teens.

Apart from double standards for gender or orientation, there's a difference between a man in his twenties with a teenage girl and a man in his twenties with a nine year old. Some people think "Sweet Little Rock 'n' Roller" is innocent and some think it's disturbing. Likewise, the teenage girl with the middle-aged man seems worse than with a guy 8-10 years older than her. All of it can be wrong or illegal. Teens aren't children regardless of the age of consent. Not in societies where teens having sex with other teens is acceptable. The challenge is if you call it all the same, you'll end up with injustice for perpetrators and victims alike.

It's been fun. Hopefully the post is allowed to stay.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Captain Corella, that made me laugh hard.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Captain Corella, that made me laugh hard.

35love, it's something that will always follow Bill as much as his Casanova reputation or collection of groupie photos. It might be different if it was a one-off. Without Mandy, we might be paying more attention to the current Mrs. Wyman who was 17 when they first started a relationship. That said, when someone calls Mandy a child, I think it's valid to discuss the whole situation from age, gender, and within show business. It might be ugly, but Bill isn't the only one. I don't see it particularly different than Keith's drug use or Mick's womanizing. Flaws are as exaggerated as everything else for those who are larger than life.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
For what it's worth, I don't think of him as predatory, either. Giving a girl quaaludes and messing with her when she's unconscious is predatory. Bill did something illegal/immoral which was "acceptable" in his world. As for the good Captain's remark about judging the past from contemporary standards, I don't see this that way at all. It was a situation that was common in show business a century ago and still is today. Just because it's not polite to discuss it outside of certain circles doesn't make it any less of an issue.

Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
Leonioid
Blah blah blah fkg blah...If them being gone ruins the band for you (as you claim it does) then you should probably move on, stop claiming you are a fan of this band, you no longer are.

Obviously, I can only respond for myself here. I don't think there's anything wrong with anyone preferring Darryl over Bill. Either way, it's an opinion. For most people, bass doesn't even register so they're indifferent. For me, I would be fighting to defend Darryl if subsequent albums (or at least recordings) featured him integrated to the sound the way VOODOO LOUNGE does. He's a full band member on that album by my ears. Afterwards, he's a sideman and relatively anonymous as far as sound is concerned. That's a shame. On BRIDGES, the best bass work is Jeff Sarli. There are other tracks with great bass playing, but it's not always Darryl. I felt several tracks on A BIGGER BANG were aiming for the tight sound of VOODOO LOUNGE, but again not enough Darryl to register for me as his signature contribution. Being honest, FORTY LICKS and GRRR didn't even register to my ears as far as bass playing, it was faceless. None of that is his fault. He's proven he has the chops and can do very good work with the band. The problem is he's not given the chance. In concert is a whole other arena (if you'll pardon the expression) and one with no connection to the studio recordings the road work was allegedly supporting. I am a harsh critic of latterday Stones in concert. There are pleasures every tour to be sure, but for me, they're individual moments and not whole shows. Just my opinion only. It doesn't make anyone else wrong. Well, okay Ian's wrong, but that's just because he agrees with me.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Still very much a fan, Leonioid. Greatly looking forward to the new album even though I haven't loved an album in 21 years (and even then complain about it not being Darryl on most of the tunes). Still enjoy watching performances from the band. It's worth it for when the old magic is there. That said, being a fan doesn't mean (to me) that I can't judge something as not as good as it was or not as good as it could be. I'm sorry that upsets you. I really did not intend for you to feel me expressing my opinion suggested yours was wrong. To me, they're equally valid opinions of passionate fans. I don't see expressing my opinion as whining or complaining, but obviously you do and it's hurtful to you.

For that matter, I'm sorry what I thought was an interesting discussion about celebrities and what is and isn't morally acceptable (since it colors much of their lyrics) upset 35love who is a good and sweet person I value around here.

So perhaps I will follow Leonioid's advice and say if I think my heroes have feet of clay, I should "hit the @#$%& road." There have been several times I've asked Bjornulf (another nice guy who is always positive about the band) to deactivate my account because I know my passion for the band is too great to stay away forever. That said, when people you've liked for a long time are that upset with your opinions, it's probably time to find that discipline.

For what it's worth, I'm glad you enjoy everything as much as you do. You're not alone. Far from it.

Quote
Leonioid
You know odds are you are not going to like the new album... if you have not liked any in the last 21 years...

Me? I think Darryl is fine player... I think the song Doom and Gloom kicks ass! I loved B2B (still love it) and Voodoo lounge... I thought BB had a bunch of good songs on it. I have seen them in bunches on the recent tours and they still have the magic. I love the LIVE at Fonda Theater... I still love it all.


There are not many things I have liked (and have not disappointed me) than The Stones. I tend to judge very harshly and and I have hit the road on many bands... people... things... locations... but somehow The Stones still make me think they are the bees knees.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
GasLightStreet


Mid-June they had bassist auditions in Manhattan.

The late July/early August sessions for VL in Ireland did not have a bass player - Ronnie and Keith recorded bass.

Wrong. They had, but the dude didn't make the final tracks. But damn he looked cool in photos, a clear upgrade to Wyman.

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
Doxa

Quote
GasLightStreet


Mid-June they had bassist auditions in Manhattan.

The late July/early August sessions for VL in Ireland did not have a bass player - Ronnie and Keith recorded bass.

Wrong. They had, but the dude didn't make the final tracks. But damn he looked cool in photos, a clear upgrade to Wyman.

9th July - 6th August: St. Kildare, Ireland, Sandymount Studios (RW’s house).
Producers: Don Was & The Glimmer Twins. Sound engineer: Don Smith.
First recordings for the upcoming album Voodoo Lounge.

early - 29th September: St. Kildare, Ireland, Sandymount Studios (RW’s house).
Producers: Don Was & The Glimmer Twins. Sound engineer: Don Smith.
Recordings for the upcoming album Voodoo Lounge.
Additional musicians: Darryl Jones (bass), Doug Wimbish (bass), Pino
Palladino (bass), Chuck Leavell (keyb)

[www.nzentgraf.de]

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
Svartmer
Reflected on stage that Wyman was one of them? I think it´s quite the opposite. While Bill Wyman had no visible interaction with the rest of the band, Darryl and Keith have a great ongoing communication on stage.I saw them live two times with Wyman and he just stood there by himself looking completely indifferent.

So you go for the phony stage act then rather than the music? Wasnt it Keith who begged Bill to stay in the band.

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Sorry about the harsh tone Svartmer. Well maybe the interaction generally is real. Who knows.

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Sorry about the harsh tone Svartmer. Well maybe the interaction generally is real. Who knows.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
Doxa

Quote
GasLightStreet


Mid-June they had bassist auditions in Manhattan.

The late July/early August sessions for VL in Ireland did not have a bass player - Ronnie and Keith recorded bass.

Wrong. They had, but the dude didn't make the final tracks. But damn he looked cool in photos, a clear upgrade to Wyman.

9th July - 6th August: St. Kildare, Ireland, Sandymount Studios (RW’s house).
Producers: Don Was & The Glimmer Twins. Sound engineer: Don Smith.
First recordings for the upcoming album Voodoo Lounge.

early - 29th September: St. Kildare, Ireland, Sandymount Studios (RW’s house).
Producers: Don Was & The Glimmer Twins. Sound engineer: Don Smith.
Recordings for the upcoming album Voodoo Lounge.
Additional musicians: Darryl Jones (bass), Doug Wimbish (bass), Pino
Palladino (bass), Chuck Leavell (keyb)

[www.nzentgraf.de]

The dog wasn't credited?

Quote
Leonioid

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

Quote
Leonioid

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

Wyman is anything but a quitter. I'd say that is exactly what he is not...

Uhm, did you miss the part where Wyman quit The Stones? If so, I have some news for you.

Wyman was a Stone, one of the five in the van in the lean days, touring up and down the country, he was in the band when they were nobody, he played all the classic tours and all the classic albums. 30 years in a band is handful, and pulling back from that just doesn't make anyone a quitter in my book.
Especially when they go on to form a new band, and stay on the road for another, what 15 years?
Maybe it is you who needs to put a sock in it. Look at the title of thread. People just answering a question.

If the name of this website was changed to "NO LONGER a fan of the Rolling Stones - A place to hate on The Stones" then I would certainly put a sock in it, move along and never post here. I would let all the people who thoroughly enjoy saying negative things about the band prattle on taking delight posting negative things about The Stones and and allow them to post all their crap in peace... but...

But as it is, this web site is still called-
The Rolling Stones Fan Club - Since 1980 - IORR.org
Welcome to Stonesland! This is the place for Rolling Stones fans from all over the world and I still qualify to post here.

Quote
matxil
It's interesting how people tend to call other people's opinion "whining" when they don't agree with them, and then go on whining about that themselves.

From a musical point of view, at least it's interesting to have a band like the Stones, which has made music with different members, so one can compare them and weigh in the positives and negatives. They have had three entirely different guitar players, and two rather different bass players. They also have two different "leaders", who have always been there but in varying levels of mutual agreement.
Nothing wrong with trying to pinpoint the exact moment in time (February 1, 1962, 9:45? 3 October 1968 at 15.00? July 5th, 1978, Paris, 2:23 am?) when the conglomeration of current players and level of understanding between Mick and Keith was at its zenith. Of course, we will never agree, which is why this forum will last forever.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
matxil
It's interesting how people tend to call other people's opinion "whining" when they don't agree with them, and then go on whining about that themselves.

From a musical point of view, at least it's interesting to have a band like the Stones, which has made music with different members, so one can compare them and weigh in the positives and negatives. They have had three entirely different guitar players, and two rather different bass players. They also have two different "leaders", who have always been there but in varying levels of mutual agreement.
Nothing wrong with trying to pinpoint the exact moment in time (February 1, 1962, 9:45? 3 October 1968 at 15.00? July 5th, 1978, Paris, 2:23 am?) when the conglomeration of current players and level of understanding between Mick and Keith was at its zenith. Of course, we will never agree, which is why this forum will last forever.

Can being positive and enthusiastic ever qualify as whining?

Quote
matxil

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
matxil
It's interesting how people tend to call other people's opinion "whining" when they don't agree with them, and then go on whining about that themselves.

From a musical point of view, at least it's interesting to have a band like the Stones, which has made music with different members, so one can compare them and weigh in the positives and negatives. They have had three entirely different guitar players, and two rather different bass players. They also have two different "leaders", who have always been there but in varying levels of mutual agreement.
Nothing wrong with trying to pinpoint the exact moment in time (February 1, 1962, 9:45? 3 October 1968 at 15.00? July 5th, 1978, Paris, 2:23 am?) when the conglomeration of current players and level of understanding between Mick and Keith was at its zenith. Of course, we will never agree, which is why this forum will last forever.

Can being positive and enthusiastic ever qualify as whining?

No. But complaining about people with negative opinions definitely can be qualitified as whining. Going on and on about how this forum should be only for people who unconditionally like everything the Stones do and not for people who don't agree with that, can be whining.
But of course, now that I have dedicated two posts to someone who whines about people whining, one could accuse me of whining about whiners who whine about whiners. I prefer talking about Wyman or the Winos. There's a emoticon of a wineglass missing on this forum.

Back to the music.

Personally, to be honest, the bass is about the last thing I listen to in a band, but I know I should pay more attention to it. There are certain bass lines in Stones songs which I did notice (obviously Miss You, also Start Me Up, Satisfaction, a few others (there's a great video of When The Whip Comes Down -live where Bill is all over the place)), and yes, I like the way Bill Wyman played. However, I don't have much problem with Daryl Jones, because I don't think it's on him that the Stones have become a streamlined stadium band with a mediocre studio output.