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Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: RankOutsider ()
Date: September 22, 2005 08:10

Listening to this tune yesterday I was just wondering what effect he is using on the intro? Is it echo/delay/ or just tons of reverb? Because whatever it is, it surely contributes to the sound he is getting.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: September 22, 2005 09:51


No effects.

If I remember well his amp was shut in a different room, or something like it.

C

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: September 22, 2005 10:43

Yeah, they placed the amp outside the studio, and kranked it up on high volume. Thats the reason for the raw, echo-like sound.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: September 22, 2005 10:45

[www.prosoundweb.com]

Let's try to reconstruct how Brown Sugar was tracked. ... What guitar was Keith playing?

Jimmy Johnson: It was a Gibson, but not a Les Paul. Do you know that model that was right under the Les Paul, the solid body double cutaway-what is that? Oh yeah, the SG. I think it was an SG, and as I recall it was black. I remember it had those sharp horns on the cutaways. That's what he played most of the time he was here. ...

And the guitar amps?

Jimmy Johnson: Keith played a Fender Twin, and so did Mick Taylor, and they brought those in with them. The loudness on those tracks really came from Keith. I had it put in that back booth and shut the door on it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-22 14:15 by with sssoul.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: RankOutsider ()
Date: September 22, 2005 12:06

Ok, so what would you use to reproduce that sound live? Delay, or, echo?

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: nmaillot ()
Date: September 22, 2005 12:23

Do you know what kind of guitar was used by Keith on the live versions of Brown Sugar
during the early 70s. His sound on Brown Sugar on Get Your Leeds Lungs Out is so incredible.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: uz2bstoned ()
Date: September 22, 2005 12:29

-------- Ok, so what would you use to reproduce that sound live? Delay, or, echo?

A little reverb and and a clean amp cranked to just distort. The echo comes from the way it would have been miked in the room

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: September 22, 2005 12:32

nmaillot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you know what kind of guitar was used by Keith
> on the live versions of Brown Sugar
> during the early 70s. His sound on Brown Sugar on
> Get Your Leeds Lungs Out is so incredible.


Think he used a Strato.

C

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: RankOutsider ()
Date: September 22, 2005 12:42

Thanks uz2b. Ya, it's amazing how 'clean' the guitars actually are on that track.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: The Worst. ()
Date: September 22, 2005 12:46

That's right with sssoul- Keith did play Brown Sugar on a black Gibson SG, but as far as I know - no one seems to know the exact amp he used.

Re: Keith's guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: September 22, 2005 13:20

far be it from me to argue, of course, but in that article i gave the link to,
Jimmy Johnson sounds pretty definite about the amp & microphone he was using ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-29 23:31 by with sssoul.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: Reptile ()
Date: September 22, 2005 13:38

Hmm, a black SG? He has to be mistaking. But you never know.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: uz2bstoned ()
Date: September 22, 2005 14:43

------------Ya, it's amazing how 'clean' the guitars actually are on that track.


There is also an acoustic in open G as well. This really adds to the sound and is missed on the live performances. You can "slave" the signal to a second amp with an acoustic simululator so one amp has a clean, just disorting sound and the other a bright acoustic sound.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: uz2bstoned ()
Date: September 22, 2005 14:50

-------- Hmm, a black SG? He has to be mistaking. But you never know.

Just a guess but it was probably the same black Les Paul used on the Gimmie Shelter DVD, not an SG. Simular sound anyway.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: The Worst. ()
Date: September 22, 2005 16:09

In Keiths own words he said he used a black Gibson Sg guitar, I don't where I ahve the interview but I will look for it. In the same interview Keith said he didn't remember the amp he used. I also think Bill Wyman mentioned it in his book Rolling with the stones.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Date: September 22, 2005 16:15

Do NOT trust Keith's own words about guitars, tunings etc.!


Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: The Worst. ()
Date: September 22, 2005 16:15

What about Bill then?

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: Apt. #9 ()
Date: September 22, 2005 16:29

Well, first of all the first "SG" models gibson made looked like Les Paul Specials ( not an overly fancy guitar, but they are great for playing rhythm), of course all the SG means is solid guitar.

As far as reproducing the sound, I have found that a doubler works well. If it is set between 3-5, that will give the best results, but that also depends on how good the effect unit is.

I have also come to realize that Keith's effects on the Some Girls album, varried widely from what you heard on the subsequent tours that followed.

On SNL in 1978, the phaser unit he used was turned on way to fast a rate, it still sounded good, but no where near the smoothness of the actual album. I think that both songs he used it on sounded good ( Beast of Burden and Shattered), but I wish it could have been dialed in more accurately.

Again, on the American Tour in 81, I have a video of them performing Beast again at Oakland I believe and the effect is way too much and way to fast.

If Keith didn't kick so much ass I would criticize him for it, but he's the man. He could leave his guitar unplugged and still blow away half the punks that think they can play guitar today away.

So, as someone mentioned before hand, don't always assume what Keith said about the rig to be true, especially during that period.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: Milo Yammbag ()
Date: September 22, 2005 18:32

In the studio Keith likes to use small amps, 30 watts or so. In concert he uses his 2 old Fenders (you can see them sitting on top of a speaker cabinet) and 3rd smaller amp with the distortion cranked. On the current tour his little amp is displayed quite clear on-stage. It is white colored and can't be more than a 30 watter. The Fenders are set clean so he gets the nice high tones and the 3rd is set "dirty" for the crunch and lower tones. That is the current mode of getting the Keith sound.

Milo, NYC
Blue turns to Grey

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: September 22, 2005 18:42

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-01 00:22 by Erik_Snow.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: September 22, 2005 19:03

The effect you hear on Brown Sugar is a really tight echo which makes the guitar 'pop' up in the mix. This I recall from an inteview with Jimmy Miller. As to Mick Taylor's SG used during the 70, 71 tours wasn't that the Bigsby equipped, mahogany colored '63 he used during the '69 tour?

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: September 22, 2005 19:25

this the one you mean?


- july 5th 1969 (from Stones in the Park, courtesy BrownEyedGirll)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-22 20:27 by with sssoul.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: September 22, 2005 20:04

Indeed it is Mr. Sssoul!

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: September 22, 2005 20:22

i'm a she-sssoul. :E

*is* that thing Bigsby-equipped?
my vast knowledge of Bigsbys is limited to the type that was on this other Gibson Mick T played at Hyde Park (which i believe was Keith's):


- july 5th 1969 (from Stones in the Park, courtesy BrownEyedGirll)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-22 20:32 by with sssoul.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: September 22, 2005 21:06

Appy-polly-loggies Ms. Sssoul! I should never assume gender when posting! (Or sometimes in person!) Yes, both the SG and Les Paul that you kindly display here have Bigsbys installed. The Les Paul is a model B7 and the SG has a model B5. Great photos by the way. You credit Brown Eyes Girl but can you say exactly where you got them?

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: September 22, 2005 21:06

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-01 00:22 by Erik_Snow.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: September 22, 2005 21:14

ChrisM, i got those stills from my cohort BrownEyedGirll, who "captured" them from the film.
she's got a good hand, huh.

and: could you be persuaded to tell me more about these Bigsbys, kind sir or she-sir? :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-29 23:33 by with sssoul.

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: Stikkyfinger ()
Date: September 22, 2005 21:21

Well it could be that Keith can't remember but then he wouldn't want to really....it creates a mystique about the track and encourages the 'legend' view.

I'm sure he doesn't want to be 'tied down' to a particular guitar or amp for the studio version of Brown Sugar...

Still LOVE the song though....anyone who plays it well live, no matter which band they're in, will realise just how good this song is...

Regards,

Ian.

Rolling Stones Tribute

Play Rolling Stones

Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: ChrisM ()
Date: September 22, 2005 23:17

Hi Ms. Sssoul. I'll be glad to explain. Though the Bigsbys depicted in the photos you posted look different, they peform the same function, i.e., they lower the pitch of all 6 strings when the long handle you see is depressed and raise the pitch when pulled up. The reason the two Bigsbys don't appear to be the same is because there are different models for different guitars. The SG uses the model B5 because it has a flat top and a thin body whereas the Les Paul typically uses the model B7 because it has an arched top and thick body though I seem to recall having seen a B5 on Waddy Wachtel's '58 Les Paul.

A common usage is to depress the lever slightly and let it return to the starting position which gives a nice pedal steel effect. Though I have never heard Keith or Mick Taylor using it on any of their live or studio recordings you can hear fine examples of the Bigsby on almost any Neil Young recording where he plays electric guitar. Every Les Paul I have owned (3 and counting) has had a Bigsby on it by the way!


Re: Keiths guitar on Brown Sugar studio recording
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 22, 2005 23:38

Milo Yammbag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the current tour his little amp is
> displayed quite clear on-stage. It is white
> colored and can't be more than a 30 watter. The
> Fenders are set clean so he gets the nice high
> tones and the 3rd is set "dirty" for the crunch
> and lower tones. That is the current mode of
> getting the Keith sound.

I have never heard of this, nor did I ever see a third amp on stage at Keith's side. Do you have a picture of the third amp?

Mathijs

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