Seems to take some people years (if ever) to realize we're not in the olden days anymore when it comes to the way tickets are priced/sold and sellouts are calculated.
Going so far as to believe it must be some kind of conspiracy to "manipulate" the attendance/sales figures .
Each venue has a capacity set to qualify for a 'technical" sell out, even though there may be smatterings of tickets still available. When you look at the top three acts, they all had "sellouts" at their shows. The fourth top grossing act for the period (Kendrick Lamar) sold 145,129 out of a potential 189,787 - clearly there's a threshold to meet to qualify for the sellout classification.


750,874 tickets sold for No Filter 2, grossing $117,844,618.
Average ticket price $156.94.
(not sure how this is anything but good news for actual fans who wish them continued success and continued touring)

People are entitled to their opinion on the shows, the pricing, and how full they believe the venue was, but when the factual data comes in, screaming "fake news" doesn't cut it, regardless if it goes against every negative opinion you've been wailing about every chance you get.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-05 19:11 by MisterDDDD.

...Wórd, MisterDDD.

I salute you!

Well maybe this cuts it then. I was actually present at all 8 UK shows and saw for myself. There were visible empty seats at Every one of them, especially Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh. And Dublin? Don’t make me laugh. There were whole swathes of empty seats there. The venue was far too big.

At several shows, People couldn’t give away their spare Lucky Dips outside, including some Pits!!!

That’s not to say it wasn’t a very successful tour which it clearly was but sold out it was most certainly not and to claim it was is complete nonsense.

They even had a second round of Lucky Dip ticket sales for the U.K. gigs and that didn’t fill the gaps.

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georgelicks
Meanwhile, their hits are there for the main public, Hot Rocks remains Top 50 in the UK (#43) and #155 in the U.S with around 8-7k units combined each week (2k in the UK, 5k in the U.S), 350k-400k yearly, and that's from one album only and from 2 countries.
[www.officialcharts.com]
[www.billboard.com]

And we ask why they work two months a year and why there's no rush to release a new album, with such big and strong catalog the money will be always there.

You Can't Always Get What You Want being played at all the Trump rallies might actually be helping the Stones sell more albums. I'm sure there are many in attendance, and even more watching these rallies on tv, thinking to themselves "nice song, where can I buy it". For me, the connection is off-putting, and hard to avoid it when even CNN plays snippets from these rallies. Despite the Stones saying they're against the use of the song, they probably don't mind too much since it means making more money, after all they played a private show for one of Trumps billionaire buddies - they all might even be in cahoots with each other.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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grzegorz67
Well maybe this cuts it then. I was actually present at all 8 UK shows and saw for myself. There were visible empty seats at Every one of them, especially Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh. And Dublin? Don’t make me laugh. There were whole swathes of empty seats there. The venue was far too big.

At several shows, People couldn’t give away their spare Lucky Dips outside, including some Pits!!!

That’s not to say it wasn’t a very successful tour which it clearly was but sold out it was most certainly not and to claim it was is complete nonsense.

They even had a second round of Lucky Dip ticket sales for the U.K. gigs and that didn’t fill the gaps.

Lol.
Was at all of your "especially" shows and watched someone at Manchester get turned away from the box office looking for tickets.

Were there plenty of tickets available at most of the shows outside like always?
Yup.

Were there smatterings of tickets available at the box office as I already stated?
Yup.

Were there (the odd) tickets people couldn't give away because everyone already had theirs?
Yup.

Were they all technical sellouts?

[www.billboard.com]
Yup.

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MisterDDDD

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grzegorz67
Well maybe this cuts it then. I was actually present at all 8 UK shows and saw for myself. There were visible empty seats at Every one of them, especially Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh. And Dublin? Don’t make me laugh. There were whole swathes of empty seats there. The venue was far too big.

At several shows, People couldn’t give away their spare Lucky Dips outside, including some Pits!!!

That’s not to say it wasn’t a very successful tour which it clearly was but sold out it was most certainly not and to claim it was is complete nonsense.

They even had a second round of Lucky Dip ticket sales for the U.K. gigs and that didn’t fill the gaps.

Lol.
Was at all of your "especially" shows and watched someone at Manchester get turned away from the box office looking for tickets.

Were there plenty of tickets available at most of the shows outside like always?
Yup.

Were there smatterings of tickets available at the box office as I already stated?
Yup.

Were there (the odd) tickets people couldn't give away because everyone already had theirs?
Yup.

Were they all technical sellouts?

[www.billboard.com]
Yup.

It’s easy to claim a technical sellout when you can make your own rules as to what constitutes one. Cardiff was a very slow seller. Huge stadium, small market.

If they were ‘technical sellouts’ then how do you explain the need for a late 2nd round of Lucky Dips for all of U.K. and Ireland and the non construction of 2 tribune stands for the Prague show, shown on the original floor plan but not built for the actual event.

The only show which was close to a genuine sellout was Warsaw, packed to the rafters (and I was there).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-05 19:45 by grzegorz67.

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grzegorz67
It’s easy to claim a technical sellout when you can make your own rules as to what constitutes one. Cardiff was a very slow seller. Huge stadium, small market.

Yes grzegorz67, seems the terms "sold out" or "sellout" should have an asterisk as clarification as they mean close to nothing these days and are misleading.

For example: The Rolling Stones *sold out such and such stadium last year

*(most tickets were sold, but not all)

Certainly the tour was successful, and hats to them for making that amount of money even though they played only 15 shows with most setlists made up of songs nearly 40 years old.
Can't think of any nostalgia act that comes close to that amount, and most bands both new and old would be thrilled to make a fraction of the gross.
Clearly the Stones are still a big draw, and with each passing tour they'll continue to raise the bar as far as prices are concerned.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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grzegorz67

It’s easy to claim a technical sellout when you can make your own rules as to what constitutes one. Cardiff was a very slow seller. Huge stadium, small market.

If they were ‘technical sellouts’ then how do you explain the need for a late 2nd round of Lucky Dips for all of U.K. and Ireland and the non construction of 2 tribune stands for the Prague show, shown on the original floor plan but not built for the actual event.

The only show which was close to a genuine sellout was Warsaw, packed to the rafters (and I was there).

Citing your opinion as proof that they somehow "make their own rules" to reach the technical sell out status is absurd.
Claiming that it's "easy" to claim is equally laughable as the sales figures are not just for bragging rights, but actual monies subject to taxes, revenue division, et al not to mention the legal implications.
Second rounds of lucky dips, groupon offerings etc. are part of the reason they hit sellout status, not proof they didn't.
If it was "easy" to do, Kendrick Lamar and all the other acts in the top grossing sales figures would have all had sell outs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-05 20:10 by MisterDDDD.

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MisterDDDD

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grzegorz67

It’s easy to claim a technical sellout when you can make your own rules as to what constitutes one. Cardiff was a very slow seller. Huge stadium, small market.

If they were ‘technical sellouts’ then how do you explain the need for a late 2nd round of Lucky Dips for all of U.K. and Ireland and the non construction of 2 tribune stands for the Prague show, shown on the original floor plan but not built for the actual event.

The only show which was close to a genuine sellout was Warsaw, packed to the rafters (and I was there).

Citing your opinion as proof that they somehow "make their own rules" to reach the technical sell out status is absurd.
Claiming that it's "easy" to claim is equally laughable as the sales figures are not just for bragging rights, but actual monies subject to taxes, revenue division, et al not to mention the legal implications.
If it was "easy" to do, Kendrick Lamar and all the other acts in the top grossing sales figures would have all had sell outs.

I never claimed my own opinion to be fact even though you choose to read it that way.

I’ve already agreed with you that it was a very successful and lucrative tour and well worth their effort. They certainly sold a lot of tickets but definitely not all those available. Tax treatment of concert events is very favourable here in the U.K. which I won’t get into.

So perhaps they were “technical sellouts” for what that’s worth and however it’s defined. But empty seats, unsold tickets, and 2 temporary stands not built at all for one show make that definition rather laughable. It does to me anyway.

Anyone turning up ticketless to any show on the tour (Warsaw excepted) could score a ticket on the day below face value very easily.


And I loved the tour btw, 11 shows all enjoyed very much except Prague.

No more arguing from me. Remember Bjornulf’s fighting cats story. Pointless. Enjoy the next tour. We’re all fans and we all have our different views. I never believe in hype.

Pollstar initially reported Berlin as "99% cap".



[iorr.org]

A week later Pollstar listed that same 67,295 as a sellout.

[www.pollstar.com]

Capacity and sellout are two different things, that's been clear.

Second report lists capacity as 67,295.

Not sure of the relevancy or point, all the final stats list capacity as the number sold in their figures even though the venues can hold more.

They attracted over 1.5 million people only by 28 gigs (despite these prices) and we're still discussing whether No Filter Tour was successful?? I can't believe it...

I remember some predictions about "half empty stadiums in the UK", due to the prices, due to the big number of shows, and due to "the lack of interest there" (a claim that came in clear opposition to the extraordinary commercial success of "Blue and Lonesome" in the UK). And what happened? They played in front of 465,314 people. Most stadiums were packed or very close to it, but some folks on the board are counting empty seats...

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laertisflash
They attracted over 1.5 million people only by 28 gigs (despite these prices) and we're still discussing whether No Filter Tour was successful?? I can't believe it...

I remember some predictions about "half empty stadiums in the UK", due to the prices, due to the big number of shows, and due to "the lack of interest there" (a claim that came in clear opposition to the extraordinary commercial success of "Blue and Lonesome" in the UK). And what happened? They played in front of 465,314 people. Most stadiums were packed or very close to it, but some folks on the board are counting empty seats...

We are in no way discussing if it was successful or not. There’s no discussion to be had. Clearly it was a massive success and it’s very a short debate.

Crowds were big but the article claims a whole tour sellout despite there having been very visible unused capacity at every show except Warsaw. In some cases, it was a lot but it in no way means that the tour wasn’t a success.

I now read that Sellout and Capacity are not the same. If that’s the case then sellout means nothing other than a very big crowd.

Odd how the term "sellout" has been diluted, and the meaning diminished compared to the old days when a sellout literally meant a sellout, ie no tickets available.
Wonder what the reasoning is behind that...

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

"Now read that Sellout and Capacity are not the same. If that’s the case then sellout means nothing other than a very big crowd"

Grzegorz67, I think MisterDDDD just notes that sellout has to do with tickets available. Usually, the number of tickets available does move close, more or less, to venue's capacity for concerts (because for sport activities can be different). But we still don't really know how many tickets are available. And we don't know how many sold tickets have been remained in the pockets of scalpers, of course.

For example, as for gigs in Stade De France different acts can have different numbers of tickets available. Every crowd over 65,000 could be a honest,real sell out there. On the other hand, I could not accept as real sell out, for example, a 36,257 crowd in Amsterdam Arena (Bruce Springsteen, 2008) or 37,834 at Olympic Stadium of Rome (Bruce again, 2009).

So, as for No Filter tour I don't see attendances being really far from the well known capacity's numbers. Even in Dublin, attendance was 80 -85% of capacity's number.

Just speculating, but maybe the initial number of tickets available can be set (lower than full capacity), and then if the number of tickets sold get close to or hit that mark, they can increase the number available in order to sell more. Wondering who sets the numbers available to begin with - the venue, or the band management? And are the tickets "available" at a particular venue the same for each artist, or does eacc come in with their own numbers. It all seems sort of arbitrary, but maybe there's a rational reason behind it.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

"Available" tickets varies. Big productions eliminate seats, as do catwalks and b-stages.

On the other hand, U2's 360° Tour had more seats available.

Your right bye bye johnny, I should have thought that through more.

But wondering if the tickets "available" is felxible...maybe in some cases they are such as opening up a new section on the side.
I know there's been newly released seats for some shows after having the stage setup...I think it was a Roger Waters show where they were able to add a few extra rows or extend the number of seats per row.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

It's been almost 2 1/2 months since I've seen the Stones.

We need another tour!!!

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BluzDude
It's been almost 2 1/2 months since I've seen the Stones.

We need another tour!!!

It's only been 29 days for me and I'm getting itchy feet already . I can feel a transatlantic flight coming on....

Yes, I need another tour, too...

Quote
grzegorz67
Well maybe this cuts it then. I was actually present at all 8 UK shows and saw for myself. There were visible empty seats at Every one of them, especially Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh. And Dublin? Don’t make me laugh. There were whole swathes of empty seats there. The venue was far too big.

At several shows, People couldn’t give away their spare Lucky Dips outside, including some Pits!!!

That’s not to say it wasn’t a very successful tour which it clearly was but sold out it was most certainly not and to claim it was is complete nonsense.

They even had a second round of Lucky Dip ticket sales for the U.K. gigs and that didn’t fill the gaps.

All impressions depend on so much different Things. I've seen all UK shows but Manchester and Southampton and for me Cardiff seemed to me the most packed venue while Twickenham and London 1 Had the most empty seats (in the UK). Of course Dublin was the show with the most empty seats.

Quote
Hairball
Odd how the term "sellout" has been diluted, and the meaning diminished compared to the old days when a sellout literally meant a sellout, ie no tickets available.
Wonder what the reasoning is behind that...

Marketing.
If people hear ‘tickets not selling’ ‘stadiums with empty seats’
maybe they are hearing ‘not a good show or not worth it, not worth far away seats (the ones left)

TPi Magazine (August 2018). The whole article can be read on this link, from page 32 onwards.

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hockenheim95

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grzegorz67
Well maybe this cuts it then. I was actually present at all 8 UK shows and saw for myself. There were visible empty seats at Every one of them, especially Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh. And Dublin? Don’t make me laugh. There were whole swathes of empty seats there. The venue was far too big.

At several shows, People couldn’t give away their spare Lucky Dips outside, including some Pits!!!

That’s not to say it wasn’t a very successful tour which it clearly was but sold out it was most certainly not and to claim it was is complete nonsense.

They even had a second round of Lucky Dip ticket sales for the U.K. gigs and that didn’t fill the gaps.

All impressions depend on so much different Things. I've seen all UK shows but Manchester and Southampton and for me Cardiff seemed to me the most packed venue while Twickenham and London 1 Had the most empty seats (in the UK). Of course Dublin was the show with the most empty seats.

Cardiff certainly had a few empty areas in the stands, but the floor was packed.

Stones’ ‘No Filter’ Euro Leg Grosses $116 Million

Wednesday, 8/08/2018
By: Deborah Speer


The Rolling Stones London Stadium, London, England. Ian West/PA

The Rolling Stones recently completed a second European “No Filter” tour leg and, in typical Stones fashion, submitted box office numbers that would be the envy of almost anyone else for a full global jaunt.

Mick and the boys, with the help of promoter Concerts West and local co-promoters, saw 14 sold-out stadiums during the May-July leg, ringing up nearly $116.6 million grossed and averaging 52,355 tickets sold per report. Those figures are down somewhat from last fall’s similar-sized tour leg, which grossed just shy of $120 million and averaged 62,945 tickets sold during September and October.

Combining both legs, the Stones rolled up a total gross of $235,545,266 and moved 1,506,259 tickets in Europe.

Notable stops on the spring caravan included two sellouts at the 68,737-capacity London Stadium with opener Florence + The Machine that grossed $20,496,695 (£14,896,395); and single shows at 55,000-cap Twickenham Stadium ($11,105,252; £8,346,989) and 67,295-capacity Olympiastadion Berlin in Germany ($12,113,470; Euro 10,371,033).

The tour wrapped July 8 at 52,355-cap Stadion Narodowy in Warsaw, Poland, with opener Trombone Shorty & Orleans Avenue, grossing $7,580,943.

So, now that The Rolling Stones have pillaged Europe, when can we expect them to return Stateside?

We could cajole only a qualified “no comment” from Concerts West’s John Meglen, who reluctantly added, “They never said that was the end!”

[www.pollstar.com]

^

‘So, now that The Rolling Stones have pillaged Europe, when can we expect them to return Stateside?’

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35love
^

‘So, now that The Rolling Stones have pillaged Europe, when can we expect them to return Stateside?’

Yeah wondering also, and funny that Pollstar article says "The Rolling Stones have pillaged Europe"...
I previously stated that eventually "they'll plunder their way across the US", and was unnecessarily attacked for bashing the Stones!!

Looking forward to more rumours, and in the meantime maybe Pollstar will get some hate mail for "bashing" on the Stones lol...

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......