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keefriff99

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Anitapal82
Who did play the drums on this . Was it Ron

Anton Fig, I believe. However, Wiki says he just plays shakers.

The drum style doesn't really sound like Charlie, but maybe it was him.

Charlie.

Fig didn't play drums on the album. According to Steve Jordan, neither did he.

So there might be two songs with Woody on drums on DW: Sleep Tonight and Too Rude..

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriff99

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Anitapal82
Who did play the drums on this . Was it Ron

Anton Fig, I believe. However, Wiki says he just plays shakers.

The drum style doesn't really sound like Charlie, but maybe it was him.

Charlie.

Fig didn't play drums on the album. According to Steve Jordan, neither did he.

Well Jordan sings the Gopsel acc. to KR, doesn't he? If Keef asks him to never admit he played on DW, who is he to disagree with the boss? Amen!

I really do think CW didn't play on "One Hit". After all he was barely able to stand up during the sessions and he once fell off his stool while the tapes were rolling.
So yeah Fig or Jordan played on "One Hit". My guess : Jordan. The songs has his muscular dynamic style.

We should ask Lillywhite who did what... but strangely he has refused to talk about the making of DW ever since it was released. The power of the Gospel again?

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dcba

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriff99

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Anitapal82
Who did play the drums on this . Was it Ron

Anton Fig, I believe. However, Wiki says he just plays shakers.

The drum style doesn't really sound like Charlie, but maybe it was him.

Charlie.

Fig didn't play drums on the album. According to Steve Jordan, neither did he.

Well Jordan sings the Gopsel acc. to KR, doesn't he? If Keef asks him to never admit he played on DW, who is he to disagree with the boss? Amen!

I really do think CW didn't play on "One Hit". After all he was barely able to stand up during the sessions and he once fell off his stool while the tapes were rolling.
So yeah Fig or Jordan played on "One Hit". My guess : Jordan. The songs has his muscular dynamic style.

We should ask Lillywhite who did what... but strangely he has refused to talk about the making of DW ever since it was released. The power of the Gospel again?

Everybody knows there were session guys on DW. Why should that be so hard to admit?

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneage
That's the one, DP. He had many signatures.I do miss him though.But maybe he's around here somewhere under a new signature. Who knows?

Sure about that? I didn't know...

As he was sort of going rogue with this DW-stuff, I thought that was his only moniker

Wasn't one MSMRS50 or something? Or something having to do with October moon? I might be wrong though. I seem to have a short memory these days...

Yea , always wished they put more effort into working this live, instead 3 or 4 times then giving up on it like they have done on many other songs over the past 25 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-21 15:42 by virgil.

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Hairball
Lacks the Jimmy Page guitar playing of the studio version which was the highlight of the tune for me, and which is impossible to replicate in a live setting without him.
Listening to studio version now and it all sounds outdated - the backup singing and mechanical sounding drums...not a favorite.

How can a solo long approximately 10 seconds make such a huge difference?

C

Of course it was Charlie.
Fig sounds different.
Ch. Watts having had 1-2 bad days at the sessions doesn't mean he couldn't play the drums at all. Come on . .

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liddas

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Hairball
Lacks the Jimmy Page guitar playing of the studio version which was the highlight of the tune for me, and which is impossible to replicate in a live setting without him.
Listening to studio version now and it all sounds outdated - the backup singing and mechanical sounding drums...not a favorite.

How can a solo long approximately 10 seconds make such a huge difference?

C

It can't.

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriff99

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Anitapal82
Who did play the drums on this . Was it Ron

Anton Fig, I believe. However, Wiki says he just plays shakers.

The drum style doesn't really sound like Charlie, but maybe it was him.

Charlie.

Fig didn't play drums on the album. According to Steve Jordan, neither did he.

So there might be two songs with Woody on drums on DW: Sleep Tonight and Too Rude..

Of course Wiki isn't 100% reliable, but Fig is listed on "shakers" at the bottom of the page for Dirty Work, but then in the body of the article, it says both Fig and Jordan contributed drums to the album:

Charlie Watts' involvement in the recording sessions was also limited; in 1994 Watts told Ed Bradley on 60 Minutes that during the 1980s he had been addicted to heroin and alcohol. Steve Jordan and Anton Fig play drums on some tracks; Ronnie Wood plays drums on "Sleep Tonight". Jagger would later cite Watts' personal state as one of the reasons he vetoed a tour in support of Dirty Work in 1986, preferring to start work on his second album, Primitive Cool (1987).[citation needed]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-21 18:26 by keefriff99.

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CousinC
Of course it was Charlie.

That muscular hard-hitting style on One Hit, Charlie? C'mon! To me "One Hit" sounds like the very 1st track recorded by the Expensive Winos (with Wyman on bass of course). Same drive same adreline-driven drumming.

CW's style is far removed from this... Compare "Almost Hear You Sigh" on Steel Wheels (CW on drums) and the TIC outtake where Jordan is on the stool.
You'll see the difference...

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dcba

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CousinC
Of course it was Charlie.

That muscular hard-hitting style on One Hit, Charlie? C'mon! To me "One Hit" sounds like the very 1st track recorded by the Expensive Winos (with Wyman on bass of course). Same drive same adreline-driven drumming.

CW's style is far removed from this... Compare "Almost Hear You Sigh" on Steel Wheels (CW on drums) and the TIC outtake where Jordan is on the stool.
You'll see the difference...

That big, gated-reverb snare sound is more down to the '80s production than anything. I think Charlie is as capable of sounding like that as any drummer if the producer twiddles the knobs just so.

The only thing that made me think it might not be Charlie is that the song has a lot of crash hits on the snare down beat, which Charlie almost never does...not that it's difficult, but it's not his style, particularly since he has that quirk of not hitting the hi-hat on the snare down beat, but he does hit the crash with the snare on the live version:

[www.youtube.com]

Songs like Fight and Had It With You, those songs are unmistakably Charlie.

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keefriff99

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriff99

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Anitapal82
Who did play the drums on this . Was it Ron

Anton Fig, I believe. However, Wiki says he just plays shakers.

The drum style doesn't really sound like Charlie, but maybe it was him.

Charlie.

Fig didn't play drums on the album. According to Steve Jordan, neither did he.

So there might be two songs with Woody on drums on DW: Sleep Tonight and Too Rude..

Of course Wiki isn't 100% reliable, but Fig is listed on "shakers" at the bottom of the page for Dirty Work, but then in the body of the article, it says both Fig and Jordan contributed drums to the album:

Charlie Watts' involvement in the recording sessions was also limited; in 1994 Watts told Ed Bradley on 60 Minutes that during the 1980s he had been addicted to heroin and alcohol. Steve Jordan and Anton Fig play drums on some tracks; Ronnie Wood plays drums on "Sleep Tonight". Jagger would later cite Watts' personal state as one of the reasons he vetoed a tour in support of Dirty Work in 1986, preferring to start work on his second album, Primitive Cool (1987).[citation needed]

Drums and percussion are mixed up all the time on "credits" like these.

+ that you and I can claim on Wikipedia that we played drums on DW

Jordan has stated that he didn't play drums. I believe Fig only did percussion. I don't recognise his style in there.

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriff99

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriff99

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Anitapal82
Who did play the drums on this . Was it Ron

Anton Fig, I believe. However, Wiki says he just plays shakers.

The drum style doesn't really sound like Charlie, but maybe it was him.

Charlie.

Fig didn't play drums on the album. According to Steve Jordan, neither did he.

So there might be two songs with Woody on drums on DW: Sleep Tonight and Too Rude..

Of course Wiki isn't 100% reliable, but Fig is listed on "shakers" at the bottom of the page for Dirty Work, but then in the body of the article, it says both Fig and Jordan contributed drums to the album:

Charlie Watts' involvement in the recording sessions was also limited; in 1994 Watts told Ed Bradley on 60 Minutes that during the 1980s he had been addicted to heroin and alcohol. Steve Jordan and Anton Fig play drums on some tracks; Ronnie Wood plays drums on "Sleep Tonight". Jagger would later cite Watts' personal state as one of the reasons he vetoed a tour in support of Dirty Work in 1986, preferring to start work on his second album, Primitive Cool (1987).[citation needed]

Drums and percussion are mixed up all the time on "credits" like these.

+ that you and I can claim on Wikipedia that we played drums on DW

Jordan has stated that he didn't play drums. I believe Fig only did percussion. I don't recognise his style in there.

Oh I know, that's why I take what's on there with a grain of salt. The more I listen to the song, the more I can be convinced it actually is Charlie aside from the crash/snare hits.

Credits are so tricky. It could mean there's a bass drum overdub or a small part they fixed somewhere that is someone else playing just as much as it could be any type of percussion from a drum to a tambourine to handclaps. You'll find session credits with two bass players or multiple piano players as well. It could mean they were all used somewhere in the final version or they could just be listing people who contributed while the song was worked on over the course of many sessions. There is no hard and fast rule.

Despite disliking Lillywhite's drum sound on much of the album, "Harlem Shuffle" and "Had It With You" sound perfect to me. While I think of it as Keith solo more than the Stones, "Too Rude" also sounds great. "Sleep Tonight" just sounds like they were aiming for EMPIRE BURLESQUE. Arthur Baker was around during the UNDERCOVER 12" mixes so it's hardly surprising. It was the sound of the day.

‘Too Rude’: KR (voc, gtr)/RW (gtr, bass)/Steve Jordan (dr)/Jimmy Cliff
(bvoc)/Chuck Leavell (p)

If that's Charlie on drums, I'm Bill Gates.

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peoplewitheyes
HMS was certainly a passionate poster, and he sure had a way with riling GLS...

There's no excusing people's bad taste sometimes.

Not sure how anyone can hear that it isn't Charlie on One Hit when it has his signature time keeping.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-22 18:46 by GasLightStreet.

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GasLightStreet
‘Too Rude’: KR (voc, gtr)/RW (gtr, bass)/Steve Jordan (dr)/Jimmy Cliff
(bvoc)/Chuck Leavell (p)

If that's Charlie on drums, I'm Bill Gates.

Jordan has denied that he played on it. It's Ronnie and a lot of tape echo..

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GasLightStreet
Not sure how anyone can hear that it isn't Charlie when it has his signature time keeping.

I don't know...it was mentioned before that Charlie didn't drum on the track, so I took it as gospel, but after listening a few times earlier, I'm pretty sure it's him.

Has anyone asked Charley Drayton? Even with the reverb, it seems awfully good to be Ronnie. Honestly I thought it was two drummers or at least multi-tracking the drum tracks on "Too Rude."

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keefriff99

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GasLightStreet
Not sure how anyone can hear that it isn't Charlie when it has his signature time keeping.

I don't know...it was mentioned before that Charlie didn't drum on the track, so I took it as gospel, but after listening a few times earlier, I'm pretty sure it's him.

I meant for One Hit. Too Rude I always thought was Ronnie but Ronnie has only ever talked about Sleep Tonight.

It's a bit like listening to Roy Thomas Baker's production on GIMME SOME NECK. The drummers rarely sound like themselves.

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GasLightStreet

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keefriff99

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GasLightStreet
Not sure how anyone can hear that it isn't Charlie when it has his signature time keeping.

I don't know...it was mentioned before that Charlie didn't drum on the track, so I took it as gospel, but after listening a few times earlier, I'm pretty sure it's him.

I meant for One Hit. Too Rude I always thought was Ronnie but Ronnie has only ever talked about Sleep Tonight.

One Hit is a no-brainer. That's Mr. Watts indeed.

Hope they play it in the UK, next year.
Love the song
Jeroen

One Hit is a no-brainer. That's Mr.JORDAN indeed.Imho

A number of years ago I had a conversation with Jimmy Rip about whether or not he's playing the solo on "Shoot Off Your Mouth" on PRIMITIVE COOL. He explained that he, Vernon Reid, and Jim Barber spent an afternoon recording guitar overdubs for Jeff Beck that lasted only a second or two each. It was the cheaper option to paying Jeff to do his own overdubs. I said so you did the same job Eddie Martinez did on SHE'S THE BOSS and he said, right but cheaper than he was since Martinez had the same manager as Beck. I persisted and said that "Shoot Off Your Mouth" had similar lines to his playing on the song, "Wandering Spirit" and that Vernon Reid said it was Reid playing on "Peace for the Wicked" which sounded a bit like Reid to my ears. Jimmy was slightly frustrated with me and said, "Let's put it this way, if you like what you hear then it's me playing."

I think that's the deal with the drumming on DIRTY WORK. I hear Charlie on some tracks some of the time and other times in the same song, I'm not so sure. If you hear Steve Jordan or Charley Drayton or Anton Fig, then that's who it is regardless of whether Charlie Watts is on the track or not. It's the safest answer if you're catching a beat that was overdubbed.

The full band appears only on One Hit (yeah, including CW according to nzentgraf.de), Harlem Shuffle and Dirty Work. Wyman had already sort of left the band, he plays just on these mentioned three tracks. I wonder why he wasn't thrown out. Maybe nobody noticed it ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-23 10:22 by Monsoon Ragoon.

Besides the two "Ronnie on drums" tracks my guess is that Winning ugly and Harlem shuffle are not played by Charlie.
I also have the feeling that the Bass Drum / HiHat intro of One Hit is played by a different drummer. It is a little to accurate for Charlie.
When the full band comes in its definitely Charlie.

Oddly enough, "Harlem Shuffle" sounds exactly like Charlie to my ears. It's one of the few tracks not ruined by Lillywhite's production. As for Bill's limited participation, that's because so much of the album was reworked during post-production in New York. Bill was fully present during the Paris sessions.

Mick agreed to wear a puffy shirt for this performance