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Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 9, 2017 16:49

Did you see half- empty venues, jlowe, where the Stones have performed?

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: Hansman ()
Date: October 9, 2017 16:52

Every band has these fans with rose-tinted glasses on, those who are zero critical and who love everything and anything their favorite band is doing. That's their definition of being a fan. Support and love them, no matter what.

To each their own.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 9, 2017 16:58

Quote
bv
Quote
TheBlockbuster
If you review 20 shows and everyone of them is exclusively positive, the readers will loose interest, since the standpoint is already presumed. This doesn't mean the review was dishonest, the reviewer might really think every Stones show is fantastic, and what's left for those with a more critical standpoint is to read what other people have to say.

So what you are saying is I should stop writing reports from shows from now on, because nobody is interested in reading my reports?

That's not how I interpreted Blockbuster. I read your reports BV, I enjoy them because it gives me an insight of how it feels to be a superfan following them live (im a huge fan myself but in a different way). Like an eyewitness account from a huge happening. I can't follow them on tour and don't feel the urge but I guess it's like an addiction (no offense) - the rush of being up front and really feeling the bass, the guitars, the crowd etc. Just like the band.
There's a difference between following them and comparing a concert to last nights concert and reviewing a concert in comparison to other acts. Or in comparison to how they sounded the last time they visited Denmark. Or what they sounded like in 1973.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 9, 2017 16:59

Quote
georgie48
Quote
potus43
Quote
35love
Really? You call out BV?

Unless there is a personal vendetta or you are a troll (honestly, I have no idea WTF who is who multiple personalities/ handles, so, you could be)

Go to a show and write your own personal truth and submit for publication.
Last I heard, he prints/ posts them all.

Dude, site is free/ no advertising. The best way to get latest ticket, roll outs, blah blah.

Sooooo, free is what you get.

ETA: which is pretty @#$%& great. IORR RULES. Stones Rule.
Party in Düsseldorf WOO HOOOOOOO

You are slightly missing the point.
1. Yes, I should have used maybe "Objective"
2. When I see reviews from local papers that say a "Stones cover band" is better one wonders -- admittedly from afar -- what to believe. Were they really THAT great if local papers are trashing them. Again, from AFAR, one is relying on reports and when 2-3 reports are that they barely showed up and others give them A+ that is a head scratcher, no?


Just sayin'.

Hi Potus43, I read that "Stones cover band" review in that Dutch newspaper. It was one of many very negative quotes. It made me think, so I researched the Internet and found a very similar review in that same newspaper about a previous visit of the Rolling Stones to the Netherlands. It felt like a copy! These sad people are in a position to approach their readers, assuming that many don't like the Stones anyway, so feed them with all that negativity. Only negative talks about an artist to me means "hate that artist" for whatever reason. Being in a position to use media, one could expect some sense of responsibily, but we all know that media or often misused for (anti)propaganda for whatever suits the user. How frustrating it must be for those "Stones haters" to see the Stones fill stadiums around the world with ease still after 55 years!spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Why would that be frustrating?

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: potus43 ()
Date: October 9, 2017 17:19

To be clear, I consider myself the biggest Stones fan in the world. Like many of you. I have seen them roughly 225 times starting the day after Thanksgiving at MSG 1969.

Re: Honest Reviews
Date: October 9, 2017 17:25

Quote
georgie48

Hi Potus43, I read that "Stones cover band" review in that Dutch newspaper. It was one of many very negative quotes. It made me think, so I researched the Internet and found a very similar review in that same newspaper about a previous visit of the Rolling Stones to the Netherlands. It felt like a copy! These sad people are in a position to approach their readers, assuming that many don't like the Stones anyway, so feed them with all that negativity.


Jan Vollaard (the journalist you are referring to) is a well respected Dutch music journalist/reviewer, writing for the NRC.nl, affiliated to NRC Handelsblad, a Dutch quality newspaper. His reviews on the Rolling Stones concerts where a musical opinion on the Rolling Stones musical efforts in Holland 2017 and 2007. You can argue about his opinions, but people that read and work for the NRC paper are basically well educated, and well informed about what's going on in the world, from a political, cultural and/ or musical point of view.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 9, 2017 17:40

Quote
Beast
So if someone's review doesn't coincide with another's opinion, it's considered dishonest? confused smiley

beautiful...exactly my thinking.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 9, 2017 18:15

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
georgie48

Hi Potus43, I read that "Stones cover band" review in that Dutch newspaper. It was one of many very negative quotes. It made me think, so I researched the Internet and found a very similar review in that same newspaper about a previous visit of the Rolling Stones to the Netherlands. It felt like a copy! These sad people are in a position to approach their readers, assuming that many don't like the Stones anyway, so feed them with all that negativity.


Jan Vollaard (the journalist you are referring to) is a well respected Dutch music journalist/reviewer, writing for the NRC.nl, affiliated to NRC Handelsblad, a Dutch quality newspaper. His reviews on the Rolling Stones concerts in Holland where a musical opinion on the Rolling Stones musical efforts in Holland 2017 and 2007. You can argue about his opinions, but people that read and work for the NRC paper are basically well educated, and well informed about what's going on in the world, from a political, cultural and/ or musical point of view.

Good to know, but there are some journalists out there who seem to have it in for the Stones - seemingly having what they've written prepared before the show even takes place. All they do is fill in the setlist and a few pertinent details, and it's ready to be published. Reminds me of the nasty negative review from about 10 years ago...might have been from Oslo? Or Copenhagen? The reviewer ripped to shreds the band and the performance so bad that Keith actually took issue with it and threw a bit of a tizzy through the press. Keith was so angry he might have even said "I'll show him the knife"...or maybe he didn't say it quite like that, but it seemed really out of character and almost bizarre for an old professional like Keith who has seen his share of both positive and negative reviews over the years become unhinged like that. Evidently the reviewer was a jerk to begin with as several people here said that were familiar with him.

Again, nice to know that Jan Vollaard is a well respected man...wonder if he's also a dedicated follower of fashion? winking smiley

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Honest Reviews
Date: October 9, 2017 18:46

Quote
Hairball

Again, nice to know that Jan Vollaard is a well respected man...wonder if he's also a dedicated follower of fashion? winking smiley

I don't believe there's a direct link between musical taste/ being fashion sensitive and people's IQ. However, Frank Zappa had an interesting take on the subject: winking smiley

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-09 18:57 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: potus43 ()
Date: October 9, 2017 18:49

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Beast
So if someone's review doesn't coincide with another's opinion, it's considered dishonest? confused smiley

beautiful...exactly my thinking.

You need to read the updates yo. I changed the wording as "dishonest" was a poor choice of words on my part.

Re: Honest Reviews
Date: October 9, 2017 18:52

The thread is still called "Honest reviews"...

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: frenki09 ()
Date: October 9, 2017 20:12

You also have to differentiate between a review (which is analytical, technical, detailed, comparative, critical, factual with behind-the-scenes information, objectively subjective, impartial, conclusive, stylish) and a diary- or journal-entry (which has a more personal point of view, and lacks journalistic style and approach). Writing reviews is a profession, and a difficult one!

The 'reviews' that are posted here on IORR about each gig are mostly diary-entry style pieces, which are fun to read, and I appreciate them, but they are more like reports than reviews.

Actually I am looking forward to reading Dean Goodman's posts about shows. He is funny, ironic, cynical and able to connect the dots. And stylish in an original way.

The latest show marked my first at the unloved indoor venue since their 1998 Bridges to Babylon five-pack. It was a relief to learn that the Dutch government has since declared the arena a Dave Matthews-Free Zone. Maybe the Stones could have redone "Memory Motel" to atone for the Matthews Massacre but we got a few other surprises instead.

The unpleasant surprise was the return of "You Got Me Rocking," two days after an IORR analyst had tempted fate by declaring that the tour would be judged a success simply by the song's exclusion from the set list. Well, what do we know? People seem to like it, a couple of fist pumps and "Hey, Heys!"

The best crowd barometer is the reaction when Keith is at the mike.

[Amsterdam]

Spot on! (Spot on not -- only -- because I agree with what Dean said about YGMR, but because it's entertaining, because it's observantly done, because he doesn't shy away from criticism, because it's conclusive.) Someone mentioned Bee Vee's posts, and I have to honestly say that I stopped reading them, because I know what I will get before I start reading it: overtly positive, protective ...and praising You Got Me Rocking and Out of Control whenever they crawl their way back into the set list... hot smiley Out of Control?! Remember the songwriting saying? "Don’t bore us, get to the chorus." Out of Control is just ridiculous, lame, boring, written to impress. Typical Jagger tune. Oh yeah, oh yeah.

I had to have this here:

As for the vote, we all know that it has the credibility of a Kenyan election endorsed by John Kerry.

I think we have established by now that Ronnie and Mick are in the driver's seat.

[Barcelona]

I laughed out loud when I read his thoughts on the song vote. Spot on once again! Still makes me laugh!

I think the reports(!) are a very-very important part of this fan site! And it's great that people take their time to write down their thoughts on what they just experienced. But perhaps it should read: Report by XY, and NOT Review by XY. But it doesn't really matter, it doesn't make much of a difference... it is a fan site we are talking about anyway, not NME.

And one more thing: there's no such thing as an honest, or dishonest review! I've never read a dishonest review, just a badly written one.

P.S.: I am so happy that Keef is doing Slipping Away every single night. It is just so wonderful, heartfelt and focused. And he made that song his very own. We all know that it is indeed slowly slipping away. And we all know Keef means it this time.
I remember watching the big screen a few years ago in Macau during Slipping Away, and seeing Charlie (Watts) smiling and singing "sun and then the moon" along with Keef at the mike. I will never forget that moment. If Charlie digs it, it can't be that bad... I think Charlie really appreciates and understands the soulful side of Keith Richards.

Re: Honest Reviews
Date: October 9, 2017 21:08

<objectively subjective>

A contradiction.

You can write a professional journalistic review, but it will remain subjective just the same.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: potus43 ()
Date: October 9, 2017 21:41

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Learn to read

Re: Honest Reviews
Date: October 9, 2017 21:56

Quote
potus43
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Look right over your moniker

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: potus43 ()
Date: October 9, 2017 22:04

you be a troll yo

Re: Honest Reviews
Date: October 9, 2017 22:21

Well, potus, at least I wanna thank you for starting a real thread smiling smiley

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: deardoctor ()
Date: October 9, 2017 23:22

Quote
laertisflash
Did you see half- empty venues, jlowe, where the Stones have performed?

Yes, 2007 germany

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 9, 2017 23:38

Quote
deardoctor
Quote
laertisflash
Did you see half- empty venues, jlowe, where the Stones have performed?

Yes, 2007 germany

For what it's worth, they couldn't sell out the two Vegas arena shows last year. Eventually there were some official price drops in various locations within the venue, but even that didn't do the trick - still plenty of seats to be had. And as we know, the first show ended up being cancelled due to Mick being sick, but some conspiracy theorists tried to suggest it was cancelled because of the slow sales - consolidate the two shows to guaranteed a full house was the claim. Even if that was the case, still lots official tickets available the day of the second show at the box office. Being in Vegas at the time with my wife, and with no intention of seeing the Stones (I saw them twice at Desert Trip), it was a spur of the moment decision that I bought us a pair of heavily discounted floor seats via stubhub - almost one fourth of the price of original face value. Seeing as Mick was sick, and with the shortened setlist (a whimpy 18 songs!), have to say it was a bit lackluster even with the discount - Midnight Rambler and one of the new blues covers being the only real highlights. If that's the last time they play in the US, they will have left us with a whimper. Hoping they come back some day - even if for one show, and whetehr I'm in attendance or not (doubtful) hopefully they can help erase the memory of the Vegas show and redeem themselves for the sake of history.

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-09 23:40 by Hairball.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 9, 2017 23:47

DearDoctor, my rhetorical question was: Did Jlowe see half empty venues ON THE CURRENT tour? Because his question did refer to the current tour.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 10, 2017 01:35

Quote
jlowe
Quote
laertisflash
"How frustrating it must be for those "Stones haters" to see the Stones fill stadiums around the world with ease still after 55 years!"

Correct, Georgie...

Is that correct?
Is it a sell out tour?

are you insinuating these shows are not overwhelmingly successful? I think the only possible issue, from them not completely selling out is that the damn ticket prices are astronomical.

If they charged $1 million a ticket the shows would be really empty, if they charge $25 it would be a complete sellout (with scalpers re-inflating to market prices).

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: frenki09 ()
Date: October 10, 2017 06:36

Quote
DandelionPowderman


A contradiction.

You can write a professional journalistic review, but it will remain subjective just the same.

Exactly! It will indeed remain subjective. That was my point with that contradiction. A review can never be fully objective, however one should aim to be objective, which is good enough. The approach should be conscious enough to enable you to be less selfish when doing journalistic work.

History is told from the point of view of the writer/historian, so all in all it is subjective. As soon as you use an adjective it is subjective. Still with information, facts, with different point of views etc. it will be as objective as it possibly can be.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 10, 2017 08:33

"Reminds me of the nasty negative review from about 10 years ago...might have been from Oslo? Or Copenhagen?"

I'm almost 100% sure that it have been in Gothenburg, Hairball.

Re: Honest Reviews
Date: October 10, 2017 08:39

It was indeed Markus Larsson and Sweden.

He also showed up to interview Keith 3 years later in Paris, but got a knock on the head in return.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: October 10, 2017 09:19

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
georgie48

Hi Potus43, I read that "Stones cover band" review in that Dutch newspaper. It was one of many very negative quotes. It made me think, so I researched the Internet and found a very similar review in that same newspaper about a previous visit of the Rolling Stones to the Netherlands. It felt like a copy! These sad people are in a position to approach their readers, assuming that many don't like the Stones anyway, so feed them with all that negativity.


Jan Vollaard (the journalist you are referring to) is a well respected Dutch music journalist/reviewer, writing for the NRC.nl, affiliated to NRC Handelsblad, a Dutch quality newspaper. His reviews on the Rolling Stones concerts where a musical opinion on the Rolling Stones musical efforts in Holland 2017 and 2007. You can argue about his opinions, but people that read and work for the NRC paper are basically well educated, and well informed about what's going on in the world, from a political, cultural and/ or musical point of view.

Interesting that you name the person. Well, I met many, many well educated (one can argue what well educated means) in my (luckily long)life and among them quite some hopeless and irresponsible ones. Personal pride or frustration or other reasons can overrule the effect of a good education, sometimes in the most terrible ways. Only look at history. Deeply nestled hate is sometimes difficult to hide. "A musical opinion"??? What does "Ronnie's thirty seconds dancing" have to do with a musical opinion??? And so on. No, the guy hates the Stones!

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: 1963luca0 ()
Date: October 10, 2017 09:22

In 1990, thousands of tickets were distributed for free trying to fill the stadium, after Vasco Rossi - Italy's strongest ticket seller - refused to open for the Rolling Stones and do the hard work for them.
Still, the stadium was half empty and one could walk to the front rows 30 minutes before 'Continental Drift' intro.

Re: Honest Reviews
Date: October 10, 2017 09:41

Quote
1963luca0
In 1990, thousands of tickets were distributed for free trying to fill the stadium, after Vasco Rossi - Italy's strongest ticket seller - refused to open for the Rolling Stones and do the hard work for them.
Still, the stadium was half empty and one could walk to the front rows 30 minutes before 'Continental Drift' intro.

The hard work?

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: bv ()
Date: October 10, 2017 09:49

Quote
TheflyingDutchman

Jan Vollaard (the journalist you are referring to) is a well respected Dutch music journalist/reviewer, writing for the NRC.nl, affiliated to NRC Handelsblad, a Dutch quality newspaper. His reviews on the Rolling Stones concerts where a musical opinion on the Rolling Stones musical efforts in Holland 2017 and 2007. You can argue about his opinions, but people that read and work for the NRC paper are basically well educated, and well informed about what's going on in the world, from a political, cultural and/ or musical point of view.

I don't need journalists to tell me how the Stones are performing. If we go to the shows we can form our own opinion. It is like asking a journalist to write about the kiss you get from your girl friend. They feel outside so they can't relate to it. They may write about age and technical details of the show, but they will still feel left outside, they wonder why all these thousands of fans are having so much fun, and they are bugged by the journalistic challenge of writing something "smart and unique".

Bjornulf

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 10, 2017 10:09

1963luca wrote: "In 1990, thousands of tickets were distributed for free trying to fill the stadium, after Vasco Rossi - Italy's strongest ticket seller - refused to open for the Rolling Stones and do the hard work for them.Still, the stadium was half empty and one could walk to the front rows 30 minutes before 'Continental Drift' intro".

Once again, the short discussion on the thread was about the current tour. But, since you mention Italy 1990, notice that the Stones had always problems in Europe, when they were scheduling summer gigs at countries, where a Football World Cup Tournament was taking place ( a bit earlier or a bit later) and many, many people had already spent money for the games or had saved money for it. In 1998 the Stones had scheduled 4 concerts in France, where FWC Tournament took place. They cancelled three of them and only played Stade De France.



.

Re: Honest Reviews
Posted by: bv ()
Date: October 10, 2017 10:25

From 1990 into 2017 is 27 years. Those fans from 1990 are 27 years older now and they spend their savings on seeing the band live now. People have more freedom in their 60's than when they are in their 30's and 40's with children. It is not rocket science. The Stones do know they have a strong brand now. The venues are filled up with smiling fans every night. I don't see any empty seats, and the queues are long, long, long. No reason to worry about unsold tickets these days. Well unless you sit at home in a grumpy state and wish you could have been there.

Bjornulf

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