I don't have an arguement-I read case studies.did you just give me a link to the WAPO?? Why not just give out a contact number for the democratic party headquarters.and no, I don't listen to Rupert Murdochs bullshit either.

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keefriff99

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lem motlow
Bring the fact checkers in-how many police shooting of minorities compared to others? Stats are there.use a study from the FBI or a law studies center.avoid the media.

Keep in mind how many more white people there are in America:

[www.washingtonpost.com]

There are plenty of stats in this article to support some of your arguments too.

There are more whites but facts are blacks come in contact with p;ice much more then whites.

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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MisterDDDD

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wonderboy
Strange logic.
It's OK to point out that most mass shootings are done by white males.
But it's not OK to point out that most gun violence is perpetrated by young, black males.
And because of that, largely black communities suffer because it's not politically correct to talk about their situation.

Not at all strange logic. It's How not to be racist 101.
First- inner-city gun violence is not all "perpetrated by young, black males". Characterizing it as such, is indeed racist.
White males don't get to cry racism, because they are WHITE males. Just as males don't get to wail about sexism, because they are .. wait for it.. MALES. The majority of oppressors don't get to then co-op the legitimately oppressed (that they oppressed) legitimate issues. It's not tough, just as when Black Lives Matter is co-opted with nonsense like All Lives Matter, or Blue Lives Matter.. or..
The racism and oppression that has made these movements necessary is then diminished by the co-opting.

Oh Boy. Here we go.

Who doesn't think that blacks lives matter? That is just something blacks and liberals claim and then protest against their straw man.

Not a straw man at all.

Unarmed black people are shot dead by the cops, including a 12 year old boy, and no one cares. A video of a cop shooting a black person in the back execution-style was needed to get a cop arrested and jailed. Didn't see much outrage over it though. Just some "Tsk tsk...shame. Oh, let's see what's on TV now."

A football player kneels during the Anthem and white people go berserk en masse and stop watching football. Football...America's real religion.

That's what gets white peoples' hackles up. Not dead black people, but a living uppity black person. Their priorities are crystal clear.

That is you saying nobody cared about Rice being killed. Then you protest that nobody cared. Plenty of people cared. Obviously it's a complicated issue when dealing with police. How do you know it wasn't a real gun? Because you have hindsight that the cops do not have. How do you know that Rice was 12? Because you have hindsight that the cops did not have.

It was tragic for sure and I have never heard anyone deny that. Whites have been killed for carry toy guns also. I red that it has happened 30 times in recent years and 19 of the victims were white.

I am not impressed with your unarmed argument. Michael Brown fo one was unarmed but he tried to gr4ab a cops gun and then charged at him again. Please tell me that the same could not have easily happened to a white guy because it happens all the time to white guys.

You seriously did not see much outrage over the Walter Scott killing? Now you are just saying things. When someone wants to claim racism they are an irresistible force. There is no stopping them. Did you see a ton of outrage over any white people killed by cops recently? Which ones. I have seen none that have even come close to numerous killings of black people recently.

I certainly didn't see sustained outrage commensurate with the level of tragedy. Mostly "Eh, that sucks but shit happens" and then people move on to the next thing.

I've seen much more loud and sustained outrage (not to mention media coverage) over this bogus Anthem controversy than any police shooting. That's telling.

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lem motlow
I don't have an arguement-I read case studies.did you just give me a link to the WAPO?? Why not just give out a contact number for the democratic party headquarters.and no, I don't listen to Rupert Murdochs bullshit either.

Noooo, OF COURSE you don't listen to Rupert Murdoch!

Who would ever come to THAT conclusion based on the talking points you spew?

You're doing the work of the man in the White House by trying to discredit journalism. The cable news networks are pretty much awful but print journalism is still doing quality work. If you don't want to read a well-researched article, that's your problem.

Why do they play the anthem when two American teams play, btw?

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keefriff99

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stone4ever

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keefriff99
Yes, blacks commit crimes at higher rates than whites. Pointing that out dispassionately isn't racist, but using it as a cudgel to portray blacks as out-of-control savages does.

[ucr.fbi.gov]

Notice that white people tend to murder other white people, and black people tend to murder other black people.

As long as the violence is contained to neighborhoods of color, it doesn't register as news. No one really cares about inner city violence in America. We claim we do, but we really don't. Otherwise we would have done something about it by now.

But again, crime rates have decreased steadily during the last two decades and are very low compared to the '80s and early '90s. Our cities aren't "war zones" save for some localized inner city communities in several large cities where, again, people simply don't care enough to do anything about.

So let me see if i have got this right.
As long as whites are killing whites and blacks are killing blacks, its not news worthy, so it doesn't really matter so much, and we don't really care ?

If this is progress we are all @#$%&.

The whole world has gone mad.

No, never said that. I simply said that inner city violence is such a mundane fact of life in America that it rarely gets the attention it deserves.

White on white violence does get more attention because of ingrained racial bias: it's salacious and tends to be "evening news" worthy, particularly in suburban or rural communities where it's not as frequent.

THis is another example of not being able to win when it comes to race. In case you are not aware many blacks think that white's obsess over black and black crime and that the media shows way too much or it. That think it's a sign of racism. But here you are saying the opposite a sign or racism. You can't win. It's an irresistible force.

You cant clean up black cities using things like stop and frisk because more blacks would end up in jail and that would be racist. But if you don't clean up black cities and the killing goes on it's because nobody cares and it's racism. You cannot win.

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DandelionPowderman
Why do they play the anthem when two American teams play, btw?

Because we're AMERICA. @#$%& you. That's why.

No real good reason. It's just hyper-nationalist nonsense.

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lem motlow
Bring the fact checkers in-how many police shooting of minorities compared to others? Stats are there.use a study from the FBI or a law studies center.avoid the media.

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lem motlow
....uh,no-
People who know nothing about guns think full automatics are legal in Nevada ...."


Lem..
Respectfully, what good would the fact checkers do for you who deny the facts?
And why not do a little research yourself?

Example.. you keep claiming (with no citations) that automatic weapons are illegal in all 50 states. I post evidence that clearly shows you are wrong, yet you continue to ignore or shout "fake news" at other posted facts.

Why not back-up your (false) assertions with a link or two?

[www.newsweek.com]

"Nevada has some of the most relaxed gun laws in the country, a legislative condition that is sure to come under renewed scrutiny in the wake of the worst mass shooting in U.S. history on Sunday night in Las Vegas.

Nevada law does not require firearms owners to have licenses or register their weapons, nor does it limit the number of firearms an individual posses.

Automatic assault weapons and machine guns are also legal in the state as long as they are registered and possessed in adherence to federal law, according to the National Rifle Association.

Nevada does not prohibit the transfer or possession of assault weapons, 50-caliber rifles or large-capacity ammunition magazines. Local law enforcement issues concealed handgun licenses. Open carry is legal without a permit.
Initial reports on social media appear to have shown that lone-wolf shooter Stephen Paddock used a high-caliber automatic weapon in the Las Vegas shooting. In shared footage of the attack, scores of rounds of ammunition can be heard going off in a matter of seconds.

Such weapons were previously prohibited under the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired in 2004. Several lawmakers have attempted to renew the ban, coming closest, but still failing, after the Newtown school shooting in 2012."

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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MisterDDDD

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wonderboy
Strange logic.
It's OK to point out that most mass shootings are done by white males.
But it's not OK to point out that most gun violence is perpetrated by young, black males.
And because of that, largely black communities suffer because it's not politically correct to talk about their situation.

Not at all strange logic. It's How not to be racist 101.
First- inner-city gun violence is not all "perpetrated by young, black males". Characterizing it as such, is indeed racist.
White males don't get to cry racism, because they are WHITE males. Just as males don't get to wail about sexism, because they are .. wait for it.. MALES. The majority of oppressors don't get to then co-op the legitimately oppressed (that they oppressed) legitimate issues. It's not tough, just as when Black Lives Matter is co-opted with nonsense like All Lives Matter, or Blue Lives Matter.. or..
The racism and oppression that has made these movements necessary is then diminished by the co-opting.

Oh Boy. Here we go.

Who doesn't think that blacks lives matter? That is just something blacks and liberals claim and then protest against their straw man.

Not a straw man at all.

Unarmed black people are shot dead by the cops, including a 12 year old boy, and no one cares. A video of a cop shooting a black person in the back execution-style was needed to get a cop arrested and jailed. Didn't see much outrage over it though. Just some "Tsk tsk...shame. Oh, let's see what's on TV now."

A football player kneels during the Anthem and white people go berserk en masse and stop watching football. Football...America's real religion.

That's what gets white peoples' hackles up. Not dead black people, but a living uppity black person. Their priorities are crystal clear.

That is you saying nobody cared about Rice being killed. Then you protest that nobody cared. Plenty of people cared. Obviously it's a complicated issue when dealing with police. How do you know it wasn't a real gun? Because you have hindsight that the cops do not have. How do you know that Rice was 12? Because you have hindsight that the cops did not have.

It was tragic for sure and I have never heard anyone deny that. Whites have been killed for carry toy guns also. I red that it has happened 30 times in recent years and 19 of the victims were white.

I am not impressed with your unarmed argument. Michael Brown fo one was unarmed but he tried to gr4ab a cops gun and then charged at him again. Please tell me that the same could not have easily happened to a white guy because it happens all the time to white guys.

You seriously did not see much outrage over the Walter Scott killing? Now you are just saying things. When someone wants to claim racism they are an irresistible force. There is no stopping them. Did you see a ton of outrage over any white people killed by cops recently? Which ones. I have seen none that have even come close to numerous killings of black people recently.

I certainly didn't see sustained outrage commensurate with the level of tragedy. Mostly "Eh, that sucks but shit happens" and then people move on to the next thing.

I've seen much more loud and sustained outrage (not to mention media coverage) over this bogus Anthem controversy than any police shooting. That's telling.

People act the same way when a white person is killed by a cop. I would bet you can't even name a white person killed by a cop. I have asked people before and they can't name one.


I agree about the National Anthem but that also had nothing to do with race. American's don't like people who don't respect the flag like they think they should. If a group of white players did the same thing then there would be the same reaction by most. One thing I can tell you is if white players did it to protest just white people getting killed by cops the protests would be huge. The NFL's freedom of speech stance would go down the drain in a hurry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-04 23:35 by stanlove.

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stone4ever

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keefriff99
Yes, blacks commit crimes at higher rates than whites. Pointing that out dispassionately isn't racist, but using it as a cudgel to portray blacks as out-of-control savages does.

[ucr.fbi.gov]

Notice that white people tend to murder other white people, and black people tend to murder other black people.

As long as the violence is contained to neighborhoods of color, it doesn't register as news. No one really cares about inner city violence in America. We claim we do, but we really don't. Otherwise we would have done something about it by now.

But again, crime rates have decreased steadily during the last two decades and are very low compared to the '80s and early '90s. Our cities aren't "war zones" save for some localized inner city communities in several large cities where, again, people simply don't care enough to do anything about.

So let me see if i have got this right.
As long as whites are killing whites and blacks are killing blacks, its not news worthy, so it doesn't really matter so much, and we don't really care ?

If this is progress we are all @#$%&.

The whole world has gone mad.

No, never said that. I simply said that inner city violence is such a mundane fact of life in America that it rarely gets the attention it deserves.

White on white violence does get more attention because of ingrained racial bias: it's salacious and tends to be "evening news" worthy, particularly in suburban or rural communities where it's not as frequent.

THis is another example of not being able to win when it comes to race. In case you are not aware many blacks think that white's obsess over black and black crime and that the media shows way too much or it. That think it's a sign of racism. But here you are saying the opposite a sign or racism. You can't win. It's an irresistible force.

You cant clean up black cities using things like stop and frisk because more blacks would end up in jail and that would be racist. But if you don't clean up black cities and the killing goes on it's because nobody cares and it's racism. You cannot win.

It also depends on how it's covered.

"Crazy black savages shooting each other in Chicago again...news at 11!"

Not very helpful, but it does paint a vivid picture.

Doing an hour-long deep dive on the causes of gang violence and poverty and inner cities would be more edifying, but that's boring and puts people to sleep.

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keefriff99

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DandelionPowderman
Why do they play the anthem when two American teams play, btw?

Because we're AMERICA. @#$%& you. That's why.

No real good reason. It's just hyper-nationalist nonsense.

Well only do that on national games here. Oh, one exception for Bergen which sort of has its own anthem... But they're a bit crazy over there

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stone4ever

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keefriff99
Yes, blacks commit crimes at higher rates than whites. Pointing that out dispassionately isn't racist, but using it as a cudgel to portray blacks as out-of-control savages does.

[ucr.fbi.gov]

Notice that white people tend to murder other white people, and black people tend to murder other black people.

As long as the violence is contained to neighborhoods of color, it doesn't register as news. No one really cares about inner city violence in America. We claim we do, but we really don't. Otherwise we would have done something about it by now.

But again, crime rates have decreased steadily during the last two decades and are very low compared to the '80s and early '90s. Our cities aren't "war zones" save for some localized inner city communities in several large cities where, again, people simply don't care enough to do anything about.

So let me see if i have got this right.
As long as whites are killing whites and blacks are killing blacks, its not news worthy, so it doesn't really matter so much, and we don't really care ?

If this is progress we are all @#$%&.

The whole world has gone mad.

No, never said that. I simply said that inner city violence is such a mundane fact of life in America that it rarely gets the attention it deserves.

White on white violence does get more attention because of ingrained racial bias: it's salacious and tends to be "evening news" worthy, particularly in suburban or rural communities where it's not as frequent.

THis is another example of not being able to win when it comes to race. In case you are not aware many blacks think that white's obsess over black and black crime and that the media shows way too much or it. That think it's a sign of racism. But here you are saying the opposite a sign or racism. You can't win. It's an irresistible force.

You cant clean up black cities using things like stop and frisk because more blacks would end up in jail and that would be racist. But if you don't clean up black cities and the killing goes on it's because nobody cares and it's racism. You cannot win.

It also depends on how it's covered.

"Crazy black savages shooting each other in Chicago again...news at 11!"

Not very helpful, but it does paint a vivid picture.

Doing an hour-long deep dive on the causes of gang violence and poverty and inner cities would be more edifying, but that's boring and puts people to sleep.

Show me a news story that was titles savage blacks kill each other. Once again if they show the story it's racist, if they don't it's racist.

If I ran the country there would be a stop and frisk policy in these cities like they have never seen before. It would be cleaned up and whoever had to go to jail would go to jail Then MAYBE when the crime is cleaned up you could get businesses to invest in the area and maybe make lives better for the people who deserve it which is most in those cities. Then more taxes would be collected which would help the schools and improve things more.

But when someone suggests that they are labeled a racist.

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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MisterDDDD

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wonderboy
Strange logic.
It's OK to point out that most mass shootings are done by white males.
But it's not OK to point out that most gun violence is perpetrated by young, black males.
And because of that, largely black communities suffer because it's not politically correct to talk about their situation.

Not at all strange logic. It's How not to be racist 101.
First- inner-city gun violence is not all "perpetrated by young, black males". Characterizing it as such, is indeed racist.
White males don't get to cry racism, because they are WHITE males. Just as males don't get to wail about sexism, because they are .. wait for it.. MALES. The majority of oppressors don't get to then co-op the legitimately oppressed (that they oppressed) legitimate issues. It's not tough, just as when Black Lives Matter is co-opted with nonsense like All Lives Matter, or Blue Lives Matter.. or..
The racism and oppression that has made these movements necessary is then diminished by the co-opting.

Oh Boy. Here we go.

Who doesn't think that blacks lives matter? That is just something blacks and liberals claim and then protest against their straw man.

Not a straw man at all.

Unarmed black people are shot dead by the cops, including a 12 year old boy, and no one cares. A video of a cop shooting a black person in the back execution-style was needed to get a cop arrested and jailed. Didn't see much outrage over it though. Just some "Tsk tsk...shame. Oh, let's see what's on TV now."

A football player kneels during the Anthem and white people go berserk en masse and stop watching football. Football...America's real religion.

That's what gets white peoples' hackles up. Not dead black people, but a living uppity black person. Their priorities are crystal clear.

That is you saying nobody cared about Rice being killed. Then you protest that nobody cared. Plenty of people cared. Obviously it's a complicated issue when dealing with police. How do you know it wasn't a real gun? Because you have hindsight that the cops do not have. How do you know that Rice was 12? Because you have hindsight that the cops did not have.

It was tragic for sure and I have never heard anyone deny that. Whites have been killed for carry toy guns also. I red that it has happened 30 times in recent years and 19 of the victims were white.

I am not impressed with your unarmed argument. Michael Brown fo one was unarmed but he tried to gr4ab a cops gun and then charged at him again. Please tell me that the same could not have easily happened to a white guy because it happens all the time to white guys.

You seriously did not see much outrage over the Walter Scott killing? Now you are just saying things. When someone wants to claim racism they are an irresistible force. There is no stopping them. Did you see a ton of outrage over any white people killed by cops recently? Which ones. I have seen none that have even come close to numerous killings of black people recently.

I certainly didn't see sustained outrage commensurate with the level of tragedy. Mostly "Eh, that sucks but shit happens" and then people move on to the next thing.

I've seen much more loud and sustained outrage (not to mention media coverage) over this bogus Anthem controversy than any police shooting. That's telling.

People act the same way when a white person is killed by a cop. I would bet you can't even name a white person killed by a cop. I have asked people before and they can't name one.


I agree about the National Anthem but that also had nothing to do with race. American's don't like people who don't respect the flag like they think they should. If a group of white players did the same thing then there would be the same reaction by most. One thing I can tell you is if white players did it to protest just white people getting killed by cops the protests would be huge.

I'm sure there are plenty of tragic stories about white people getting killed by mistaken identity, but there's an ingrained suspicion that black people are inherently up to no good.

Many black celebrities have stories of being pulled over by the police for no reason and immediately treated like garbage, only to be recognized and then fawned over and told "sorry for the misunderstanding". That's something that we as white people will never understand or experience.

The Newsweek article again?? I gave you the statute number from congress and the exact date the bill was signed into law!will someone else please fact check this.if I'm wrong I'll say so, really.
And keefriff99 or whatever I'm not giving an opinion,you are trying to argue with someone with no "opinion" I just see crazy and sadness out there in the world.

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stone4ever

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keefriff99
Yes, blacks commit crimes at higher rates than whites. Pointing that out dispassionately isn't racist, but using it as a cudgel to portray blacks as out-of-control savages does.

[ucr.fbi.gov]

Notice that white people tend to murder other white people, and black people tend to murder other black people.

As long as the violence is contained to neighborhoods of color, it doesn't register as news. No one really cares about inner city violence in America. We claim we do, but we really don't. Otherwise we would have done something about it by now.

But again, crime rates have decreased steadily during the last two decades and are very low compared to the '80s and early '90s. Our cities aren't "war zones" save for some localized inner city communities in several large cities where, again, people simply don't care enough to do anything about.

So let me see if i have got this right.
As long as whites are killing whites and blacks are killing blacks, its not news worthy, so it doesn't really matter so much, and we don't really care ?

If this is progress we are all @#$%&.

The whole world has gone mad.

No, never said that. I simply said that inner city violence is such a mundane fact of life in America that it rarely gets the attention it deserves.

White on white violence does get more attention because of ingrained racial bias: it's salacious and tends to be "evening news" worthy, particularly in suburban or rural communities where it's not as frequent.

THis is another example of not being able to win when it comes to race. In case you are not aware many blacks think that white's obsess over black and black crime and that the media shows way too much or it. That think it's a sign of racism. But here you are saying the opposite a sign or racism. You can't win. It's an irresistible force.

You cant clean up black cities using things like stop and frisk because more blacks would end up in jail and that would be racist. But if you don't clean up black cities and the killing goes on it's because nobody cares and it's racism. You cannot win.

It also depends on how it's covered.

"Crazy black savages shooting each other in Chicago again...news at 11!"

Not very helpful, but it does paint a vivid picture.

Doing an hour-long deep dive on the causes of gang violence and poverty and inner cities would be more edifying, but that's boring and puts people to sleep.

Show me a news story that was titles savage blacks kill each other. Once again if they show the story it's racist, if they don't it's racist.

If I ran the country there would be a stop and frisk policy in these cities like they have never seen before. It would be cleaned up and whoever had to go to jail would go to jail Then MAYBE when the crime is cleaned up you could get businesses to invest in the area and maybe make lives better for the people who deserve it which is most in those cities. Then more taxes would be collected which would help the schools and improve things more.

But when someone suggests that they are labeled a racist.

I was exaggerating of course, but there are some Fox News segments that aren't far off from being that inflammatory.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-04 23:49 by MisterDDDD.

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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stanlove

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MisterDDDD

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wonderboy
Strange logic.
It's OK to point out that most mass shootings are done by white males.
But it's not OK to point out that most gun violence is perpetrated by young, black males.
And because of that, largely black communities suffer because it's not politically correct to talk about their situation.

Not at all strange logic. It's How not to be racist 101.
First- inner-city gun violence is not all "perpetrated by young, black males". Characterizing it as such, is indeed racist.
White males don't get to cry racism, because they are WHITE males. Just as males don't get to wail about sexism, because they are .. wait for it.. MALES. The majority of oppressors don't get to then co-op the legitimately oppressed (that they oppressed) legitimate issues. It's not tough, just as when Black Lives Matter is co-opted with nonsense like All Lives Matter, or Blue Lives Matter.. or..
The racism and oppression that has made these movements necessary is then diminished by the co-opting.

Oh Boy. Here we go.

Who doesn't think that blacks lives matter? That is just something blacks and liberals claim and then protest against their straw man.

Not a straw man at all.

Unarmed black people are shot dead by the cops, including a 12 year old boy, and no one cares. A video of a cop shooting a black person in the back execution-style was needed to get a cop arrested and jailed. Didn't see much outrage over it though. Just some "Tsk tsk...shame. Oh, let's see what's on TV now."

A football player kneels during the Anthem and white people go berserk en masse and stop watching football. Football...America's real religion.

That's what gets white peoples' hackles up. Not dead black people, but a living uppity black person. Their priorities are crystal clear.

That is you saying nobody cared about Rice being killed. Then you protest that nobody cared. Plenty of people cared. Obviously it's a complicated issue when dealing with police. How do you know it wasn't a real gun? Because you have hindsight that the cops do not have. How do you know that Rice was 12? Because you have hindsight that the cops did not have.

It was tragic for sure and I have never heard anyone deny that. Whites have been killed for carry toy guns also. I red that it has happened 30 times in recent years and 19 of the victims were white.

I am not impressed with your unarmed argument. Michael Brown fo one was unarmed but he tried to gr4ab a cops gun and then charged at him again. Please tell me that the same could not have easily happened to a white guy because it happens all the time to white guys.

You seriously did not see much outrage over the Walter Scott killing? Now you are just saying things. When someone wants to claim racism they are an irresistible force. There is no stopping them. Did you see a ton of outrage over any white people killed by cops recently? Which ones. I have seen none that have even come close to numerous killings of black people recently.

I certainly didn't see sustained outrage commensurate with the level of tragedy. Mostly "Eh, that sucks but shit happens" and then people move on to the next thing.

I've seen much more loud and sustained outrage (not to mention media coverage) over this bogus Anthem controversy than any police shooting. That's telling.

People act the same way when a white person is killed by a cop. I would bet you can't even name a white person killed by a cop. I have asked people before and they can't name one.


I agree about the National Anthem but that also had nothing to do with race. American's don't like people who don't respect the flag like they think they should. If a group of white players did the same thing then there would be the same reaction by most. One thing I can tell you is if white players did it to protest just white people getting killed by cops the protests would be huge.

I'm sure there are plenty of tragic stories about white people getting killed by mistaken identity, but there's an ingrained suspicion that black people are inherently up to no good.

Many black celebrities have stories of being pulled over by the police for no reason and immediately treated like garbage, only to be recognized and then fawned over and told "sorry for the misunderstanding". That's something that we as white people will never understand or experience.

Here is the deal. When a black person gets pulled over it's because he is black ( their story ) but then what is it when a white person get's pulled over?

I was pulled over about 2 years ago for turning around at a closed gas station and the cop told me he pulled me over because someone had broke into the gas station. What do you think I would be saying if i was black?

We just saw this with Michael Bennett the football player. He was treated like anyone was going to be treated in that situation but he claimed as a fact that it happened because he is black



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-04 23:51 by stanlove.

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Green Lady
You were not an issue, but there's no legal reason why your neighbourhood bully couldn't have owned a room full of guns just like your dad's. Or bullied you into letting him have access to your dad's collection (which is where I thought your story might have been going).

Maybe that's because you were thinking in terms of 2017 and not 1977, the era in which my posted story took place. How would a 10-year-old kid be able to own a room full of guns, if he couldn't even buy a can of beer?

The point of my story was that people just didn't think like that forty odd years ago, which was a comparatively more civilized time than today.

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Green Lady
It's a trade off. How much of your freedom to own serious hardware are you willing to give up in order to make the spree-killer or terrorist's plans harder to carry out?

I didn't know there was any freedom left.

These "terrorists" you mention; this wasn't an issue forty-odd years ago in Western culture -- not until the Bush type investor class deregulated industry beginning in the 1980s and set about creating for-profit wars that sent waves of refugees streaming into the invading countries and resulting in extremist fanatics hell-bent on destruction.

"Terrorism" is a side effect of rich boy corporate globalism.

And you Brits are just as guilty for all the Iraqs, etc., because your corporate-owned government is always riding on the coattails of the U.S. corporate-owned government whenever it's time to create another tide of Mid-East carnage and the ensuing fallout.

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Green Lady
You can't make everything 100% safe

No, but you can make society a militarized police-security state to keep the tension always at a maximum -- populations are easier to control that way.

Either you want to live in a free society, or you want to live in Russia.

If you give up your freedom, what have you got left to defend, let alone be proud of?

I repeat -- "Terrorism" is a side effect of rich boy corporate globalism.

There was a time when societies knew who their enemy was. You just had to say a name -- H*tler, Mussolini, Stalin. Now it's suppose to be groups of anonymous fanatics.

The real enemy is the rich boy corporate globalist whose reckless and illegal international activities bring such unrest to our shores.

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Green Lady
I can see that in a country with much more dangerous wildlife than ours, and a hunting culture, a gun or two is a necessity in rural areas.

In the U.S. -- there's a lot of talk in this thread about "America" but America is a continent and not a country -- wildlife threats like mountain lions and coyotes are no longer just a rural issue. Did you ever see those pics of a pack of coyotes roaming around outside a baseball park in the middle of Chicago?

The level of the debate over crime and racial issues in the media ls really out of whack. That's why a lot pf people suggest that you find your own alternative sources for news and opinion. Some people may not realize it but perhaps 3/4 of the time when you watch a local news report about a crime and the reporter says that they only have a "vague description" of the perpetrator, that in fact the reporter is lying. That begs the question, why are they lying?

There is a YouTube clip that analyses crime statistics by race and discusses related matters that may give some people around here a new perspective. It relates directly back to my little football analogy that was ignored. If anyone wants to see it let me know but I won't post it without a request because it may be considered offensive by some.

Going back to the issues of gun violence and crime and associated race issues, here is a top-level view: There are good white people and their are white criminals. Likewise, there are good black people and there are black criminals. Then there is an issue of how extreme and violent the behaviours are for white criminals versus how extreme and violent they are for black criminals. Now, if there were no disparities between the races, then there would just be a generic law and order issue for society. But the reality is that there are great disparities. And for me personally, the "old formula" in looking for root causes in history and socioeconomic backgrounds etc, are dead in the water and never worked. The only real solution is for the black community to acknowledge its problems itself, and to work to fix its problems itself. In other words, no more "white supremacy" and "institutional racism" buzzwords. Rather, take stock in where you are as a people and do what you have to do to get things back to normal. Because it's really really bad out there. I have followed this issue for about two years now, and I am really hoping that one day there is a rebirth in the black community. Far too much damage is being done to society by the criminal and dysfunctional elements in the black community. You look at this horrible mass murder that just took place, and the sobering thing is that roughly every week, week in and week out, the same amount of damage is being done by the problem elements in the black community. This is not to let the criminal and dysfunctional elements in the white community off either. You simply have to treat the factors that are causing the most damage first. We all want a better less violent society. The tough question is how to go about getting there and from what I can see the "old rhetoric" is ineffective and not having any effect on what is going on.

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keefriff99
The 2nd Amendment, as antiquated and misinterpreted as it is, is enshrined in our Constitution, and isn't going anywhere.

And that's the heart of the problem. People can't seem to get their heads around the idea that an "amendment" by its very definition is NOT enshrined in anything.

I didn't see it can't be changed or shouldn't be changed. I'm saying it WON'T be changed. Look at the frenzied mania that gun owners exhibit. Guns are fetishized extensions of themselves. There is no way that the Second Amendment will ever be modified.

KR99, Sorry if I seemed to imply that you were saying that, I didn't mean that at all. Only that the problem exists in the notion that things can be "enshrined" that cause so much harm. I didn't mean to suggest you were claiming any special status of an amendment. Sorry for that.

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Hairball
I found this posted on a facebook page, and while it's obviously not scientific and perhaps a bit tongue-in-cheek, it does make a point.

Looks like NRA posting to me. How about:

[www.theguardian.com]

Perhaps so, but I did say it was obviously not scientific and a bit tongue-in-cheek...meaning a fictional example and not to be taken seriously.
I don't think anybody would be fooled by this graph and take it as factual.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-05 00:21 by Hairball.

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wonderboy
Strange logic.
It's OK to point out that most mass shootings are done by white males.
But it's not OK to point out that most gun violence is perpetrated by young, black males.
And because of that, largely black communities suffer because it's not politically correct to talk about their situation.

Not at all strange logic. It's How not to be racist 101.
First- inner-city gun violence is not all "perpetrated by young, black males". Characterizing it as such, is indeed racist.
White males don't get to cry racism, because they are WHITE males. Just as males don't get to wail about sexism, because they are .. wait for it.. MALES. The majority of oppressors don't get to then co-op the legitimately oppressed (that they oppressed) legitimate issues. It's not tough, just as when Black Lives Matter is co-opted with nonsense like All Lives Matter, or Blue Lives Matter.. or..
The racism and oppression that has made these movements necessary is then diminished by the co-opting.

Oh Boy. Here we go.

Who doesn't think that blacks lives matter? That is just something blacks and liberals claim and then protest against their straw man.

Not a straw man at all.

Unarmed black people are shot dead by the cops, including a 12 year old boy, and no one cares. A video of a cop shooting a black person in the back execution-style was needed to get a cop arrested and jailed. Didn't see much outrage over it though. Just some "Tsk tsk...shame. Oh, let's see what's on TV now."

A football player kneels during the Anthem and white people go berserk en masse and stop watching football. Football...America's real religion.

That's what gets white peoples' hackles up. Not dead black people, but a living uppity black person. Their priorities are crystal clear.

That is you saying nobody cared about Rice being killed. Then you protest that nobody cared. Plenty of people cared. Obviously it's a complicated issue when dealing with police. How do you know it wasn't a real gun? Because you have hindsight that the cops do not have. How do you know that Rice was 12? Because you have hindsight that the cops did not have.

It was tragic for sure and I have never heard anyone deny that. Whites have been killed for carry toy guns also. I red that it has happened 30 times in recent years and 19 of the victims were white.

I am not impressed with your unarmed argument. Michael Brown fo one was unarmed but he tried to gr4ab a cops gun and then charged at him again. Please tell me that the same could not have easily happened to a white guy because it happens all the time to white guys.

You seriously did not see much outrage over the Walter Scott killing? Now you are just saying things. When someone wants to claim racism they are an irresistible force. There is no stopping them. Did you see a ton of outrage over any white people killed by cops recently? Which ones. I have seen none that have even come close to numerous killings of black people recently.

I certainly didn't see sustained outrage commensurate with the level of tragedy. Mostly "Eh, that sucks but shit happens" and then people move on to the next thing.

I've seen much more loud and sustained outrage (not to mention media coverage) over this bogus Anthem controversy than any police shooting. That's telling.

People act the same way when a white person is killed by a cop. I would bet you can't even name a white person killed by a cop. I have asked people before and they can't name one.


I agree about the National Anthem but that also had nothing to do with race. American's don't like people who don't respect the flag like they think they should. If a group of white players did the same thing then there would be the same reaction by most. One thing I can tell you is if white players did it to protest just white people getting killed by cops the protests would be huge.

I'm sure there are plenty of tragic stories about white people getting killed by mistaken identity, but there's an ingrained suspicion that black people are inherently up to no good.

Many black celebrities have stories of being pulled over by the police for no reason and immediately treated like garbage, only to be recognized and then fawned over and told "sorry for the misunderstanding". That's something that we as white people will never understand or experience.

Here is the deal. When a black person gets pulled over it's because he is black ( their story ) but then what is it when a white person get's pulled over?

I was pulled over about 2 years ago for turning around at a closed gas station and the cop told me he pulled me over because someone had broke into the gas station. What do you think I would be saying if i was black?

We just saw this with Michael Bennett the football player. He was treated like anyone was going to be treated in that situation but he claimed as a fact that it happened because he is black

I suppose like anything in life, people will use something to their own advantage if they can or they are allowed to.

A lot of white male straight men in England are beginning to feel like second class citizens.
Things can go full circle.

A nice balance of fairness and justice to all people regardless of colour gender or sexual preference should be the thing to aim for imho.

Another statistic that is strange is when they will say that in a certain area black men are ten times more likely to be stop and searched than white men. Well that doesn't give the full story. What if it is a crime ridden predominately black area and black people are statistically committing most crimes, why would a policeman stop and search a white man unless he was specifically looking for a white man.
If there was a one in ten chance a white man had commented a crime, surely that policemen would be doing the sensible thing in stop and searching a black man.
This isn't racist , its common sense, and also the likelihood is that the policeman would also be black, especially in the Uk if it was a heavily populated black or ethnic area.

I don't believe i know any racist people where i live, if they are racist they cover it up well, but all we hear is that everyone is racist. As i say most people see black and white as just a colour, we are all people at the end of the day,i just wish we concentrated more on that.

Just some colour commentary:

Re: The Tamir Rice shooting. It was very tragic but the entire context is lost when people say, "The police shot a 12-year-old with a toy gun." It was an imperfect but ultimately "clean shooting" and it took place for clear, logical reasons that for some crazy reason are never mentioned. Talk about a dumbed-down society where collectively as mature adults we are incapable of discussing this tragic event rationally and actually discuss the facts in the case.

Re: Football players taking a knee. One more time, this is like the Twilight Zone because it's a fake issue. The police do their best and there are perhaps only a handful, ten or less, criminal shootings of black people by the police each year in the United States. And when that happens the police should be tried and convicted and sent to prison. The vast vast majority of cop killings of black people are "clean shootings." And ironically, more black people criminally kill cops each year than cops criminally kill blacks each year. I stress I am giving you anecdotal data from following this issue, I don't have hard numbers. Nonetheless, football players "taking a knee" is a fake issue. The whole genesis of the BLM movement from the Michael Brown case is all based on a lie.

Things are out of whack.

Whoa, how did this thread turn into a discussion about BLM?

It's not black people, it's poor neighborhoods that are predominantly black. The economic scale makes a difference. Poor kids growing up with little education and usually an absentee father are more likely to end up falling into crime than middle class black kids from nuclear families. That's fact.

The race card is a factor in other ways than crime, though. When I was in high school, I would get hassled when I hung out with black and Latino friends vs. when I was alone or with white friends. That's what happened in our own lower class neighborhood or when we were in suburban areas. That was the mid to late 1980s.

Today, I'm 46 and it's a different story. I have had no issues nor have my kids in our upper middle class neighborhood. Whereas one of my closest friends from high school will still get pulled over and harrassed by cops if he's driving around while wearing jeans and a T-shirt on the weekend, but never during the week when he's driving around in his suit and tie. Why? Probably because black psychologists are a minority and when he looks like a regular guy that is equated with a criminal (he's a big guy, looks like a quarterback). That's life in a big city. Likewise a friend who's in management and a little older than me, but came from the same neighborhood, was stopped by police while walking the dog in his gated community. Why? Probably because his neighbors thought a middle-aged Puerto Rican man is suspicious in an upper class suburb and didn't believe he belonged there.

That has nothing to do with Vegas, but the race issue is both a convenient card played politically by both sides and also a very real problem for black and Latino people in the States.

I am done with IORR. Been here a long time (10+ years). I tend to stay away from politics, unless needlessly provoked, and am tired of being immediately attacked the minute I say something that someone from a particular party/ideology decides was an opportunity to attack me based on their assumed opinion of my political leanings. I am an American, I have voted both democrat and republican. I have a life outside of here and this has been a getaway for me. Much like the NFL, no more, I'll find something else to spend my money and time on. Screw politics. Oh well, guess it's a win, win as far as more time with my family rather than false friends (as long as you agree with their beliefs) on some board in cyberspace.

Bye true friends!

I may be back, but I am not so egotistical to believe, as some, that I will be missed!

P.S. I will get my advice and guidance from Jesus Christ in the future and not jimmy kimmels or lady GooGoo GaGas or lebron james' miilionares (who by the way fall into the category of one percenter capitalistic elitist hypocrites).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-05 01:55 by shadooby.

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wonderboy
Strange logic.
It's OK to point out that most mass shootings are done by white males.
But it's not OK to point out that most gun violence is perpetrated by young, black males.
And because of that, largely black communities suffer because it's not politically correct to talk about their situation.

Not at all strange logic. It's How not to be racist 101.
First- inner-city gun violence is not all "perpetrated by young, black males". Characterizing it as such, is indeed racist.
White males don't get to cry racism, because they are WHITE males. Just as males don't get to wail about sexism, because they are .. wait for it.. MALES. The majority of oppressors don't get to then co-op the legitimately oppressed (that they oppressed) legitimate issues. It's not tough, just as when Black Lives Matter is co-opted with nonsense like All Lives Matter, or Blue Lives Matter.. or..
The racism and oppression that has made these movements necessary is then diminished by the co-opting.

Oh Boy. Here we go.

Who doesn't think that blacks lives matter? That is just something blacks and liberals claim and then protest against their straw man.

Not a straw man at all.

Unarmed black people are shot dead by the cops, including a 12 year old boy, and no one cares. A video of a cop shooting a black person in the back execution-style was needed to get a cop arrested and jailed. Didn't see much outrage over it though. Just some "Tsk tsk...shame. Oh, let's see what's on TV now."

A football player kneels during the Anthem and white people go berserk en masse and stop watching football. Football...America's real religion.

That's what gets white peoples' hackles up. Not dead black people, but a living uppity black person. Their priorities are crystal clear.

That is you saying nobody cared about Rice being killed. Then you protest that nobody cared. Plenty of people cared. Obviously it's a complicated issue when dealing with police. How do you know it wasn't a real gun? Because you have hindsight that the cops do not have. How do you know that Rice was 12? Because you have hindsight that the cops did not have.

It was tragic for sure and I have never heard anyone deny that. Whites have been killed for carry toy guns also. I red that it has happened 30 times in recent years and 19 of the victims were white.

I am not impressed with your unarmed argument. Michael Brown fo one was unarmed but he tried to gr4ab a cops gun and then charged at him again. Please tell me that the same could not have easily happened to a white guy because it happens all the time to white guys.

You seriously did not see much outrage over the Walter Scott killing? Now you are just saying things. When someone wants to claim racism they are an irresistible force. There is no stopping them. Did you see a ton of outrage over any white people killed by cops recently? Which ones. I have seen none that have even come close to numerous killings of black people recently.

I certainly didn't see sustained outrage commensurate with the level of tragedy. Mostly "Eh, that sucks but shit happens" and then people move on to the next thing.

I've seen much more loud and sustained outrage (not to mention media coverage) over this bogus Anthem controversy than any police shooting. That's telling.

People act the same way when a white person is killed by a cop. I would bet you can't even name a white person killed by a cop. I have asked people before and they can't name one.


I agree about the National Anthem but that also had nothing to do with race. American's don't like people who don't respect the flag like they think they should. If a group of white players did the same thing then there would be the same reaction by most. One thing I can tell you is if white players did it to protest just white people getting killed by cops the protests would be huge.

I'm sure there are plenty of tragic stories about white people getting killed by mistaken identity, but there's an ingrained suspicion that black people are inherently up to no good.

Many black celebrities have stories of being pulled over by the police for no reason and immediately treated like garbage, only to be recognized and then fawned over and told "sorry for the misunderstanding". That's something that we as white people will never understand or experience.

Here is the deal. When a black person gets pulled over it's because he is black ( their story ) but then what is it when a white person get's pulled over?

I was pulled over about 2 years ago for turning around at a closed gas station and the cop told me he pulled me over because someone had broke into the gas station. What do you think I would be saying if i was black?

We just saw this with Michael Bennett the football player. He was treated like anyone was going to be treated in that situation but he claimed as a fact that it happened because he is black

I suppose like anything in life, people will use something to their own advantage if they can or they are allowed to.

A lot of white male straight men in England are beginning to feel like second class citizens.
Things can go full circle.

A nice balance of fairness and justice to all people regardless of colour gender or sexual preference should be the thing to aim for imho.

Another statistic that is strange is when they will say that in a certain area black men are ten times more likely to be stop and searched than white men. Well that doesn't give the full story. What if it is a crime ridden predominately black area and black people are statistically committing most crimes, why would a policeman stop and search a white man unless he was specifically looking for a white man.
If there was a one in ten chance a white man had commented a crime, surely that policemen would be doing the sensible thing in stop and searching a black man.
This isn't racist , its common sense, and also the likelihood is that the policeman would also be black, especially in the Uk if it was a heavily populated black or ethnic area.

I don't believe i know any racist people where i live, if they are racist they cover it up well, but all we hear is that everyone is racist. As i say most people see black and white as just a colour, we are all people at the end of the day,i just wish we concentrated more on that.

Race relations in America are very complicated to say the least. Things are very screwed because of the historical treatment of blacks. because of that the majority of blacks and many white liberals see racism and racists everywhere. Because of history it is somewhat understandable, especially amongst blacks themselves. I don't know the answer to it. I do know that one thing that has to stop is blacks and liberals accusing people of racism based on hunches or spidey senses. It has turned off others to the claims. I will admit that because of this i know longer take claims of racism seriously and many feel like I do.

In the Michael Bennett case for example ( the same with almost any case ) Michael Bennett claimed as a fact that his treatment was because of his race. now think about that for a minute. How the heck could he know that for a fact. The only one who could know that was the cop who stopped him, yet Bennett made the claim and blacks and liberals treated it like it was a fact. This goes on and on and on. Then blacks and liberal talk about the amount of racism there is and mentions things like that as proof.

This is a thread started about the Vegas shooting so lets talk about that. There is a story out there and the police are looking into it ( so I have read ) that the shooter might have tried this before at an earlier time and at that time I believe it was a rap concert going on. Now if that did happen and this guy killed 50 at a rap concert this country would have exploded. It was have been treated like a fact that the shooter just wanted to kill black people and CNN and MSNBC would be running that angle all day. People like me who would be saying that it's tragic but I don't know if he was a racist would be considered racist and evil just for saying that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-05 02:33 by stanlove.

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Rocky Dijon
It's not black people, it's poor neighborhoods that are predominantly black. The economic scale makes a difference. Poor kids growing up with little education and usually an absentee father are more likely to end up falling into crime than middle class black kids from nuclear families. That's fact.

The race card is a factor in other ways than crime, though. When I was in high school, I would get hassled when I hung out with black and Latino friends vs. when I was alone or with white friends. That's what happened in our own lower class neighborhood or when we were in suburban areas. That was the mid to late 1980s.

Today, I'm 46 and it's a different story. I have had no issues nor have my kids in our upper middle class neighborhood. Whereas one of my closest friends from high school will still get pulled over and harrassed by cops if he's driving around while wearing jeans and a T-shirt on the weekend, but never during the week when he's driving around in his suit and tie. Why? Probably because black psychologists are a minority and when he looks like a regular guy that is equated with a criminal (he's a big guy, looks like a quarterback). That's life in a big city. Likewise a friend who's in management and a little older than me, but came from the same neighborhood, was stopped by police while walking the dog in his gated community. Why? Probably because his neighbors thought a middle-aged Puerto Rican man is suspicious in an upper class suburb and didn't believe he belonged there.

That has nothing to do with Vegas, but the race issue is both a convenient card played politically by both sides and also a very real problem for black and Latino people in the States.

What are they pulling your friend over for?

If blacks are being treated differently by cop then it would make sense that it might be happening because of huge black crime rates. Are cops a little more scared of blacks then they are other other? Maybe, Would it be reasonable that some are? Probably and again there is a huge black crime problem. Being scared of someone is an involuntary feeling.

MY guess is there is some of that going on but not nearly as much as some try to claim. The one thing that amazes me about this subject is the fact that when it comes to race everyone gets all up in arms but when it comes to sex nobody ever talks about it.

Men make up over 90% of the prison population and nobody says a word and they also are shoot by cops almost always. It's very rare for a cop to shoot a women. But again everyone just accepts that it's men who commit the crime and are more likekly to be dangerous so everyone just accepts it. But when it comes to race shit always hits the fan.

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stanlove
Race relations in America are very complicated to say the least. Things are very screwed because of the historical treatment of blacks. because of that the majority of blacks and many white liberals see racism and racists everywhere. Because of history it is somewhat understandable, especially amongst blacks themselves. I don't know the answer to it. I do know that one thing that has to stop is blacks and liberals accusing people of racism based on hunches or spidey senses. It has turned off others to the claims. I will admit that because of this i know longer take claims of racism seriously and many feel like I do.

In the Michael Bennett case for example ( the same with almost any case ) Michael Bennett claimed as a fact that his treatment was because of his race. now think about that for a minute. How the heck could he know that for a fact. The only one who could know that was the cop who stopped him, yet Bennett made the claim and blacks and liberals treated it like it was a fact. This goes on and on and on. Then blacks and liberal talk about the amount of racism there is and mentions things like that as proof.

This is a thread started about the Vegas shooting so lets talk about that. There is a story out there and the police are looking into it ( so I have read ) that the shooter might have tried this before at an earlier time and at that time I believe it was a rap concert going on. Now if that did happen and this guy killed 50 at a rap concert this country would have exploded. It was have been treated like a fact that the shooter just wanted to kill black people and CNN and MSNBC would be running that angle all day. People like me who would be saying that it's tragic but I don't know if he was a racist would be considered racist and evil for saying that.

Couple things-
First- The country is "going nuts" over the mass murders of Americans- country music fans or whatever. The last "biggest mass gun shooting" was at a gay nightclub where (obviously) gay people were the targets. Same reaction and horror as now (actually this is looking to be much bigger). I'm sure you would have thought us libs would go extra nuts over that based on their sexual orientation. Wrong. It's humans getting slaughtered we're against-turns out.

Second- Using Michael Bennett's example and then stating "the same as in most all cases" is just plain bigoted nonsense. Black people are racially profiled and far too often killed because of it.Period. The fact that you don't take racism seriously along with your circle of friends highlights the problem.