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Green Lady
...It's a trade off. How much of your freedom to own serious hardware are you willing to give up in order to make the spree-killer or terrorist's plans harder to carry out? You can't make everything 100% safe: recent UK terrorists used cars, knives and a home made bomb that fortunately didn't work, but if they could have bought semi automatic weapons freely they might have killed hundreds rather than dozens. You can't make the killer's job impossible, but you can make it difficult, and that will save lives.

I can see that in a country with much more dangerous wildlife than ours, and a hunting culture, a gun or two is a necessity in rural areas. Our farmers have their shotguns too. But in most places in Britain the police do not need to assume that anyone they deal with might suddenly pull a gun: if the police shoot someone it's rare, not routine. Accidents and suicides involving firearms are also unusual.

It took a long time to get here. I think it began after the first world war when the government was worried that left wing strikers and revolutionaries might use some of the weapons they had brought back from the trenches, and it's been gradually tightened up over the years. And it's the law abiding gun owners like your dad who are inconvenienced so that the criminals have a harder time of it. For a start, why does any ordinary citizen need to own one semi-automatic, let alone several?

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MisterDDDD
Fully auto machine guns are legal in Vegas.
Such weapons were previously prohibited under the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired in 2004. Several lawmakers have attempted to renew the ban, coming closest, but still failing, after the Newtown school shooting in 2012."

[www.newsweek.com]

I am no gun enthusiast by any stretch, don't own one don't want one, but even I have shot a couple fully auto machine guns at a range there with buddies for "fun".

Better Laws can help prevent these tragedies. Laws that require more thorough background checks, laws that don't allow stock-pile purchases like this guy did, laws that require longer wait times while mental health issues are investigated, laws that do everything we can to help prevent gun violence without infringing on anyones rights.

The NRA and it's money own the politicians who recently rolled back laws that prevented mentally ill people from owning guns.Current legislation that would make silencers (more) readily available and legal was to be voted on (and likely passed) got postponed this week due to this tragedy. If this guy had silencers many more would likely be dead.

I'm all for the Second Amendment, but clearly there are limits. Common sense legislation is needed to help curb the gun violence. The NRA and it's bought politicians are complicit. Enough.

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camper88

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keefriff99
The 2nd Amendment, as antiquated and misinterpreted as it is, is enshrined in our Constitution, and isn't going anywhere.

And that's the heart of the problem. People can't seem to get their heads around the idea that an "amendment" by its very definition is NOT enshrined in anything.

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Kurt
With all due respect, I will repeat myself...
this was a brutal massacre that intentionally targeted innocent American country music fans. @#$%& brutal.

I believe that we should focus on the investigation into the shooter, his motive, his acquaintance and whether or not he worked alone.
Was he radicalized?
Was he funded by others?
What about the reports of a note and videotapes of the crime itself taken from inside his room?

Instead of rushing to political sides of the coin and arguing about America and its laws, or mental illness, or race, why don't we talk more and openly about this particular guy.

Maybe if and when the truth comes out, we won't be able to neatly package it into our own political agendas?!

There has to be WAY MORE to this story than we've been told so far...

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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MileHigh

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lem motlow
Look at the FBI stats on gun violence-Americas inner cities are an ongoing war zone.if you take away the gun murders from them the rest of the country is one of the safest on the planet.
State run media won't tell you that and mentally ill white guys fuel the headlines"crazy rednecks with guns,take em away"i cannot believe people still ger their information from television."make sure you get a camera shot of that blood on the concrete boys"

Yes, and there is a true reality disconnect out there in the media. One person calls it "the greatest lie of our generation." It's too hot an issue for here but I hope and pray that it gets resolved one day. This tragic incident should not be used as a vehicle for America bashing. Like I said before, watching the clips from within the crowd itself is devastating, and similar senseless and devastating things are happening every single day in America and although the press minimally reports it, and they are afraid to discuss the root causes.

Ah, there we go: blame the blacks. That's what you want to say, right?

Sounds like PC to me. If anything that was posted is not true then point that out.

I am not saying it's true or not.

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DandelionPowderman

Because there have been too many of «that particular guy», who killed innocent people with guns?

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Kurt

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DandelionPowderman

Because there have been too many of «that particular guy», who killed innocent people with guns?

DP, seriously...enlighten me. I am not intending to come off knowing anymore than any of the rest of us but I am asking questions.

When was the last time someone like "that particular guy" intentionally targeted hundreds of mostly white, mostly young, mostly god-fearing American country music fans? I'm learning that he had been in that room for over a week. Waiting. Was he alone? And where did all the money come from?

This one doesn't fit neatly into anyone's agenda-filled box.

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Kurt
With all due respect, I will repeat myself...
this was a brutal massacre that intentionally targeted innocent American country music fans. @#$%& brutal.

I believe that we should focus on the investigation into the shooter, his motive, his acquaintance and whether or not he worked alone.
Was he radicalized?
Was he funded by others?
What about the reports of a note and videotapes of the crime itself taken from inside his room?

Instead of rushing to political sides of the coin and arguing about America and its laws, or mental illness, or race, why don't we talk more and openly about this particular guy.

Maybe if and when the truth comes out, we won't be able to neatly package it into our own political agendas?!

There has to be WAY MORE to this story than we've been told so far...

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DandelionPowderman

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Aquamarine

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Redhotcarpet
Crying on national TV is not suitable for a president.

Obama after Sandy Hook. It told me that he genuinely cared about the whole incident and wanted to do something to effect change, even if he didn't ultimately succeed (which wasn't his fault).

I'm not sure there was anything anyone could have done to have totally prevented the Las Vegas attack, however. But it could have been made much more difficult, and that's what we should be aiming for.

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MisterDDDD

For what it's worth, reports today say he rented the same suites for a block of time during a similar festival featuring "Chance the Rapper" a few weeks ago. He changed his date/plan for unknown reasons.

That said, his motives are really secondary to the gun violence conversation/ reforms we need to be having now. It's undeniable that some sort of legislative action(s) needs to be taken. We all are aware that tighter gun controls will not save all the people killed by gun violence, but it undoubtably would save some.

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lem motlow

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lem motlow
That's interesting Kurt.somebody on this very site told me yesterday that it couldn't be compared to a regular terrorist attack because the guns are so "easily available " a guy like this could just be having a bad day and reek havoc.uh,no-
People who know nothing about guns think full automatics are legal in Nevada because of those rusty old pre-86ers the gun ranges let the tourists shoot full auto is a federal crime 5-10 years in prison for a first offense.this guy was nuts but well financed.maybe our first millionaire psycho killer.

i

Let me try again-if you have a full auto machine gun type weapon in any of the fifty United States you will go to prison.now read my original post,I have it in quotes above.see where it says "rusty old pre- 86ers, a machine gun purchased before the law went into effect in 1986 is legal.those are the ones they let you shoot st the range.they are old and costly,up to 30,000 each.most are in the hands of collectors and you need to contact the atf before selling one.so let's be clear-full auto-prison
Paddock had a private plane he could've easily flown into the open air concert,that would've killed even more people.
The crime stats I mentioned in the inner cities came from an article in time magazine about the rising murder rates for the 2016 calendar year,I'll try to link it later.

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Redhotcarpet

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DandelionPowderman

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Aquamarine

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Redhotcarpet
Crying on national TV is not suitable for a president.

Obama after Sandy Hook. It told me that he genuinely cared about the whole incident and wanted to do something to effect change, even if he didn't ultimately succeed (which wasn't his fault).

I'm not sure there was anything anyone could have done to have totally prevented the Las Vegas attack, however. But it could have been made much more difficult, and that's what we should be aiming for.

You got a point. My point was more about being sentimental and pointing fingers as a president. Not what Obama did, that's true.

As a Swede I still get the hick-ups when I hear about crying politicians. We lack pragmatic politicians.

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ryanpow
By that logic why go the trouble of putting in fire protection in buildings? Let the Fire Department do their job.

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lem motlow
I hate to keep quoting myself but AGAIN-it is not legal to own a fckng machine gun anywhere in the United States.

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ryanpow
By that logic why go the trouble of putting in fire protection in buildings? Let the Fire Department do their job.

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wonderboy
Problem with gun control laws is that you have to take guns away from mostly law abiding white people because you think it will reduce the crime in certain black neighborhoods.
Just don't think that's possible unless gun owners buy in. Don't think they are going to do it unless it's tied to an honest conversation about gun violence.
...
America is not consistent regarding prohibition of dangerous things. There is a move to prohibit guns; at the same time there is a movement to legalize recreational drugs and there has been a concerted effort to push pain medication by drug companies.

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MisterDDDD
Legislation to help prevent the gun violence wouldn't exactly be a "rush".

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MisterDDDD

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wonderboy
Problem with gun control laws is that you have to take guns away from mostly law abiding white people because you think it will reduce the crime in certain black neighborhoods.
Just don't think that's possible unless gun owners buy in. Don't think they are going to do it unless it's tied to an honest conversation about gun violence.
...
America is not consistent regarding prohibition of dangerous things. There is a move to prohibit guns; at the same time there is a movement to legalize recreational drugs and there has been a concerted effort to push pain medication by drug companies.

Ridiculous.
By far the majority of mass gun murders in the US have been committed by white males. The racist blame the scary black guy theory doesn't fly.

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MisterDDDD

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wonderboy
Problem with gun control laws is that you have to take guns away from mostly law abiding white people because you think it will reduce the crime in certain black neighborhoods.
Just don't think that's possible unless gun owners buy in. Don't think they are going to do it unless it's tied to an honest conversation about gun violence.
...
America is not consistent regarding prohibition of dangerous things. There is a move to prohibit guns; at the same time there is a movement to legalize recreational drugs and there has been a concerted effort to push pain medication by drug companies.

Ridiculous.
By far the majority of mass gun murders in the US have been committed by white males. The racist blame the scary black guy theory doesn't fly.