Quote
Redhotcarpet
His sound is great on this tour. I love it.

I still say he seems detached, not always, but a bit too late, as if he occasionally has to remind himself of what to play. Insecure maybe. Like he's revisiting songs he doesnt feel connected to anymore. Maybe he moved on.

Very profound words, and very true i think.

It's my view that keith in his heart, has moved on from this music, and it shows.

It leaves him visibly and emotionally stuck between a rock and a hard place, up there on stage with the greatest rock and roll band in the world.

He can't put it down can he, but you feel its time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-07 17:54 by stone4ever.

Watch SFM from Amsterdam and say that again, Riffie

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Watch SFM from Amsterdam and say that again, Riffie

Yes it was brilliant, i have seen it, he definitely still has his moments, and he has this stage presence, and he is improving, but i didn't feel at the beginning of this tour that this was really Keith's bag anymore.

Its like as the shows progress he learns how to be Keith Richards again, but i don't think it comes naturally to him anymore.
Its like he is acting being keith Richards as opposed to being the real thing.

Having said that Mick has been acting being Mick Jagger since 89'

But obviously Mick has his moments too, many of them.

I love it when they both get lost in the music and have this connection between them, we don't see it often enough imho.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-07 20:00 by stone4ever.

Quote
Redhotcarpet
His sound is great on this tour. I love it.

I still say he seems detached, not always, but a bit too late, as if he occasionally has to remind himself of what to play. Insecure maybe. Like he's revisiting songs he doesnt feel connected to anymore. Maybe he moved on.

Very interesting theory.
Also that idea that it takes him a little time on a tour to become 'Keith Richards' as opposed to his real self.

Quote
wonderboy

Quote
Redhotcarpet
His sound is great on this tour. I love it.

I still say he seems detached, not always, but a bit too late, as if he occasionally has to remind himself of what to play. Insecure maybe. Like he's revisiting songs he doesnt feel connected to anymore. Maybe he moved on.

Very interesting theory.
Also that idea that it takes him a little time on a tour to become 'Keith Richards' as opposed to his real self.

There was a clip from one of the shows where he's "jamming" next to Darryl, and looking at Darryl with a smile as if everything he was playing was in perfect synch - which was obviously not the case (wonder what Darryl was thinking?). As someone had mentioned, it's as if Keith is in a world of his own at times, and maybe in his mind everything is perfect and in synch.

To change gears a bit, here's an interesting article from around the time LIFE was released about Keith's arthritic fingers and how it has altered his playing:

Learning from Keith Richards’ fingers
by Dr. Ronan Kavanagh

Anyone who’s been reading Keith Richard’s excellent autobiography will be impressed how he has survived many years of rock and roll, drugs, booze and complicated women. Those with more than a passing interest in rheumatology might have noticed that Keith’s fingers may be aging slightly less well than the rest of him.

These pictures, taken by Francesco Carrozini makes it obvious to this rheumatologist, that Keith has well established osteoarthritis (OA) of his fingers.



Most of us who live long enough will get OA in some shape or form and it is by far the commonest form of arthritis.
The particular type of OA that causes the swelling in the distal finger joints is known as ‘nodal OA’ – so called after the hard and bony ‘node’ like swelling it causes in affected joints. Nodal OA can be very painful at the outset (as the bony swellings enlarge) but it is not uncommon for the pain to ease up a bit once the joint stiffens up and no longer moves properly. Its easy though to see how OA of the fingers could cause significant problems for any player.

Anyone who’s even tried to learn a few basic guitar chords will realize how much force and dexterity are required in the fingers of the fret hand to play an F barre chord – simultaneously firmly holding and index finger across all six strings and at the same time getting the middle ring and little fingers to hold three other strings.

All guitarists (soloists in particular) need a high degree of dexterity to allow their fingers to move quickly around the fretboard with precision and considerable strength. And that’s just the left hand! In addition to the difficulties caused by pain and stiffness of the joints, the enlarged bony nodes can get in the way and make unwanted contact with guitar strings.

Although there has been some speculation in the media that his playing may have contributed to the development of his arthritis, there’s no evidence that playing any instrument wears joints out quickly. Musicians get arthritis, just like the rest of us.

Playing related pain is very common in guitarists though and occurs in between 70% and 80% of them. Most problems relate to the fret hand and wrist (i.e. the left for most players), low back and neck. Guitarists also suffer from shoulder impingement, tennis elbow, wrist tendonitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, finger tenosynovitis / trigger finger and non specific forearm pain. The symptoms relate primarily to the postures adopted playing the guitar, supporting a heavy instrument, moving heavy amplifiers and equipment, long hours of practicing without breaks, increasing practice time to quickly after a lay-off and lack of aerobic fitness. Stress, sleep disturbance and depression will also influence how these performers experience pain and how they present.

Over the years Keith Richards has also made changes to his playing technique which might have made it easier for him to perform as he gets older. In the late 60’s he started using a form of guitar tuning called ‘open tuning’ (which allows a more economical use of the fretboard compared to standard tuning) and started using a 5 string guitar (a standard guitar has 6 strings). On describing this adaptation, he says; ‘there’s a million places you don’t have to put your fingers. The notes are there already’.

Keith Richards’ continued ability to perform in one the most hardworking bands in the world is likely to relate to far more than changing his guitar tuning or to his legendary physical constitution. For Keith Richards and for most musicians, giving up music is simply not an option. His observations about the addictive qualities of music and performing give us an insight into the addictive qualities of creating and performing music; ‘a far bigger drug than smack. I could kick smack. I couldn’t kick music. One note leads to another, and then you never know quite what’s going to come next, and you don’t want to. It’s like walking on a beautiful tightrope.’

Health care providers encountering musicians need to be as persistent and as creative as the people we’re caring for in finding solutions to keep them playing. Remember that losing the ability to play music is for many musicians, akin to losing part of themselves.

PS. It has of course occurred to me that by drawing attention to Keith Richards in this way, that I might offend him in some way. Bearing in mind his propensity to throw knives at people who have upset him in the past, I include a link to the Keith Richards Merchandise site (Keith)to take the edge off his ire. His autobiography, Life, is excellent too.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

It's understandable with his arthritis, the pictures where you see his hands make it very clear. But beyond that when Keith is not "firing on all 'x' cylinders" you can sense a "fog" when he is on stage. He looks befuddled, not like an aging rock star that is still sharp and can still execute his craft at a slightly reduced level. His timing is off, the notes are off, more than half the notes and half the chords are not there. Thank god in an interview setting Keith is still all there and as sharp as a tack.

I haven't seen the clips where all is working for the band. But the clips I did see sounded like a cacophony as someone else posted. I dread saying this but there is a bunch of people on YouTube that make "shred" videos where they play the visual of the clip but take the music part and "shred" it through a paper shredder. When I watched some shred clips a long time ago, some of them were quite funny satire. Well, on this tour when the Stones are bad it sounds like they are shredding themselves.

Not to pour salt on a wound, but listen to this cover of Gimme Shelter:

[www.youtube.com]

OMG if the Stones could have played it like this consistently 30+ years ago it would have truly been awesome. Some songs truly call for an "E Street Band" level of technical excellence to really take them over the top and sadly there are only flashes of the Stones version of that nowadays.

I remember those "shred" videos with overdubbed out of key notes MileHigh, and they were indeed funny! Along with Clapton, etc., there was one of Keith...plonking along aimlessly.
If memory serves, he was trying to play the lick to Yankee Doodle Dandy , with a few incomprehensible gibberish grunting noises he was making lol. (Can't seem to any of those videos find now).
I actually posted it here about 10 years ago as it was funny and some people got a kick out of it, but might not go over as well now as it hits a bit too close to home to the reality of today.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
MileHigh

Not to pour salt on a wound, but listen to this cover of Gimme Shelter:

[www.youtube.com]

OMG if the Stones could have played it like this consistently 30+ years ago it would have truly been awesome. Some songs truly call for an "E Street Band" level of technical excellence to really take them over the top and sadly there are only flashes of the Stones version of that nowadays.

Very average heavy handed cover without any finesse or intricacies. Thank god the Stones has never sounded like Mick singing over a karaoke backing track. If you want ''technical excellence'' well then go listen to the Stones play Gimme Shelter live at Parardiso in 1995. Then you will hear a band with energy that's still way tighter than the sleepy ''Sterephonics'' wedding band version you posted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-08 02:08 by RaiseTheKnife.

Sorry MileHigh I have to agree with RaiseTheKnife, the Stones still walk all over that Holiday Inn house band with Gimme Shelter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-08 02:21 by beachbreak.

I often wonder if some of Keith's genius comes from the fact that Keith appears to be in his own fantasy land. I don't think, had he been normal (whatever that is) he would have created the songs he has, in the circumstances that he has throughout is life.

He has this romantic notion of the band and his playing that just doesn't exist. This might be what carries him on.
Even when its so painfully clear Mick doesn't want to have much to do with him, it seems to go right over Keith's head. He talks about Mick in this warm way, like they are brothers or they share this marriage together. But it hasn't been like that since Bianca. Their relationship, if they have one at all, solely exists so Mick can continue earning huge sums of money with the Stones as a live act. Keith just refuses to acknowledge this, he doesn't even notice the band is no longer his. From the backing singers, to all the musicians beyond the Stones themselves, to the songs being played each night, this is Mick's band, Mick's decisions.

Looking at Keith's hands there, again, a normal person would have realised, you can't play to eighty thousand people, who are paying an obscene amount of money each, with fingers like that. It just wouldn't occur to him.

But Keith makes his own rules, the world according to Keith is how it appears to him, and he believes he is up to the job, and as a consequence of that, he manages to blag his way through, and get up to the job of being guitarist in the best rock and roll band in the world.

Someone forgot to tell Keith its impossible for him now to do this, or they don't dare tell him, but Keith always believe's what he wants to be true, and he somehow pulls it off, even when his most ardent fan's like me say, no no, please Keith, no.

This is a facet to Keith's personality that is rarely mentioned, it brings denial into a whole new spectrum of reality.

I love him for sticking his two fingers up to what anyone says he can or cannot do, he lives in his own bubble of beliefs and possibilities, and looking again at those fingers its just as well. Because those fingers should not be able to play Rock music for 2.5 hours in sometimes cold outdoor temperatures.. He does it with a smile on his face, and he does it spite of obvious difficulties in the most charming way.
Just another reason why i love and admire this man.

For nearly 15 years as a junkie, he once again achieved more than what a junkie should achieve, in those years as an addict he somehow managed to write some of the best Rock songs ever written and tour with the biggest band in the world.

The point i am making is that Keith's artistic abilities were spurred on from the same thing that helps him to continue to be a touring artist today.
He just doesn't except the boundaries and limitations that are set before him, he never did, and he never will, and that is what makes him so different and so special.

Quote
RaiseTheKnife

Quote
MileHigh

Not to pour salt on a wound, but listen to this cover of Gimme Shelter:

[www.youtube.com]

OMG if the Stones could have played it like this consistently 30+ years ago it would have truly been awesome. Some songs truly call for an "E Street Band" level of technical excellence to really take them over the top and sadly there are only flashes of the Stones version of that nowadays.

Very average heavy handed cover without any finesse or intricacies. Thank god the Stones has never sounded like Mick singing over a karaoke backing track. If you want ''technical excellence'' well then go listen to the Stones play Gimme Shelter live at Parardiso in 1995. Then you will hear a band with energy that's still way tighter than the sleepy ''Sterephonics'' wedding band version you posted.

Well, we can agree to disagree but I think the live Stereophonics version sounds great and kicks ass. You might want to try reading the top comments on the YouTube clip. Assume for the sake of argument that the comments are a somewhat less biased quasi-random sampling of opinions.

Quote
MileHigh

Quote
RaiseTheKnife

Quote
MileHigh

Not to pour salt on a wound, but listen to this cover of Gimme Shelter:

[www.youtube.com]

OMG if the Stones could have played it like this consistently 30+ years ago it would have truly been awesome. Some songs truly call for an "E Street Band" level of technical excellence to really take them over the top and sadly there are only flashes of the Stones version of that nowadays.

Very average heavy handed cover without any finesse or intricacies. Thank god the Stones has never sounded like Mick singing over a karaoke backing track. If you want ''technical excellence'' well then go listen to the Stones play Gimme Shelter live at Parardiso in 1995. Then you will hear a band with energy that's still way tighter than the sleepy ''Sterephonics'' wedding band version you posted.

Well, we can agree to disagree but I think the live Stereophonics version sounds great and kicks ass. You might want to try reading the top comments on the YouTube clip. Assume for the sake of argument that the comments are a somewhat less biased quasi-random sampling of opinions.

I think Kelly Jones does a great job of singing GS and love the drummer, but prefer Keith and Ronnie's depth on the guitar work.
I often wonder how great a lot of Stones songs would have sounded with a better singer. Mick to me has always been more of a visual performer than owning a great voice. I don't think Mick sings GS particularly well live but love the original on the album, so haunting, one of Micks best ever vocals imho, but he doesn't get anywhere near it live, doesn't even attempt it.

While the Stereophonics are (or were) a pretty good band, I have to say that cover sounds a bit hokey - almost like a new country rockin' style version...yeehaw.

Here's a decent cover of the Beatles' I'm Only Sleeping played by Kelly Jones and Noel Gallagher (and other members of Oasis and Stereophonics?) from about 10 years ago (?)at a John Lennon Memorial concert.

Noel Gallagher & Kelly Jones - I'm Only Sleeping




Ronnie Wood makes a very brief cameo at a table filled with booze and mouthing the words to the tune, with Jo Wood looking on smiling...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
stone4ever
I often wonder if some of Keith's genius comes from the fact that Keith appears to be in his own fantasy land. I don't think, had he been normal (whatever that is) he would have created the songs he has, in the circumstances that he has throughout is life.

He just doesn't except the boundaries and limitations that are set before him, he never did, and he never will, and that is what makes him so different and so special.

Great post. Keith has indeed created his own reality for years. I would not call it a fantasy, though. He has put enough things in his life -- family, friends, job (and the Stones are a great job for him, giving him routine and accountability) -- so that he can indulge in life the way he does.

Sorry MilhHigh, but I haven't been impressed by this non flexible, non emotional Gimme Shelter version. Not at all. Of course we can agree or disagree as you say.

Did Keith played on the Crosseyed heart album? Did he played guitar parts on that album. Was it any good? I think it was. And how about Blue and Lonesome?

Quote
nikola0406
Did Keith played on the Crosseyed heart album? Did he played guitar parts on that album. Was it any good? I think it was. And how about Blue and Lonesome?

Crosseyed Heart was recorded over a 10 year period (apprx./give or take), so it's hard to trace back when each particular track was recorded- but yes it was good.
And I believe he mostly/only played rhythm on Blue and Lonesome - in fact I don't think he does any solos..maybe a brief lick here and there (though there was some debate about all that when it was released).

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

What is wrong with that? I mean if he ONLY played the rhythm? Would we like that album more if someone else was playing the rhythm guitar instead of Keith? Should Stones stop what they are doing or just replace Keith? Would that be a good thing for us, the FANS?
Do we want our band to just stop everything?

Quote
nikola0406
What is wrong with that? I mean if he ONLY played the rhythm? Would we like that album more if someone else was playing the rhythm guitar instead of Keith? Should Stones stop what they are doing or just replace Keith? Would that be a good thing for us, the FANS?
Do we want our band to just stop everything?

Hmmm...I never said there was anything wrong with that. In fact I think he did a great job...the entire band seem to be having a great time! Hope they can come up with an album of originals for the next one tough, and if not, another Blue and Lonesome part II would do just fine - maybe some reggae covers...or some R&B covers...even a few country covers...it might even better than originals! And if Keith only plays rhythm, then that's the way it is!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Dont get me wrong I was not talking to you but to all "fans" who would rather see Stones without Keith or no Stones what so ever. As long they have that energy shown in Havana last year and show on this tour, what ever you may think of it, I would pay to see them. You shoud be there, in Spielberg, during the Slipping Away, to see tears in his eyes and in his voice. I would stand 15h in the mud again for that. And for Midnight Rambler.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-08 10:08 by nikola0406.

Quote
stone4ever
I often wonder if some of Keith's genius comes from the fact that Keith appears to be in his own fantasy land. I don't think, had he been normal (whatever that is) he would have created the songs he has, in the circumstances that he has throughout is life.

He has this romantic notion of the band and his playing that just doesn't exist. This might be what carries him on.
Even when its so painfully clear Mick doesn't want to have much to do with him, it seems to go right over Keith's head. He talks about Mick in this warm way, like they are brothers or they share this marriage together. But it hasn't been like that since Bianca. Their relationship, if they have one at all, solely exists so Mick can continue earning huge sums of money with the Stones as a live act. Keith just refuses to acknowledge this, he doesn't even notice the band is no longer his. From the backing singers, to all the musicians beyond the Stones themselves, to the songs being played each night, this is Mick's band, Mick's decisions.

Looking at Keith's hands there, again, a normal person would have realised, you can't play to eighty thousand people, who are paying an obscene amount of money each, with fingers like that. It just wouldn't occur to him.

But Keith makes his own rules, the world according to Keith is how it appears to him, and he believes he is up to the job, and as a consequence of that, he manages to blag his way through, and get up to the job of being guitarist in the best rock and roll band in the world.

Someone forgot to tell Keith its impossible for him now to do this, or they don't dare tell him, but Keith always believe's what he wants to be true, and he somehow pulls it off, even when his most ardent fan's like me say, no no, please Keith, no.

This is a facet to Keith's personality that is rarely mentioned, it brings denial into a whole new spectrum of reality.

I love him for sticking his two fingers up to what anyone says he can or cannot do, he lives in his own bubble of beliefs and possibilities, and looking again at those fingers its just as well. Because those fingers should not be able to play Rock music for 2.5 hours in sometimes cold outdoor temperatures.. He does it with a smile on his face, and he does it spite of obvious difficulties in the most charming way.
Just another reason why i love and admire this man.

For nearly 15 years as a junkie, he once again achieved more than what a junkie should achieve, in those years as an addict he somehow managed to write some of the best Rock songs ever written and tour with the biggest band in the world.

The point i am making is that Keith's artistic abilities were spurred on from the same thing that helps him to continue to be a touring artist today.
He just doesn't except the boundaries and limitations that are set before him, he never did, and he never will, and that is what makes him so different and so special.

From your post one gets the impression that Keith does not earn the large sums of money from live playing, which Mick does. Once again, you attribute motives of a certain kind to one that you don't towards the other in any way. Is it unfair and is it unkind to call this double standards?

No sorry WITNESS ?? REALLY ?? you miss the point once again.

Mick's relationship with Keith now is a business relationship, a relationship Mick would not have with Keith under any other circumstances.

They earn huge sums of money together, this is why Mick has a relationship with Keith. Its irrelevant that Keith earns the same money. That's not the point i am making. Keith seems to see or hopes for more from his relationship with Mick than just a business. This is part of Keith's romantic notion of life in general explained in my post.

I'm sorry but i went to a lot of trouble in my post to explain things about Keith the way i see it and you are trying to turn it into a Mick against Keith post.
Not happy about that. I'M OFF FOR GOOD THIS TIME. That is an insult to a thoughtful post.

Quote
Witness

Quote
stone4ever
I often wonder if some of Keith's genius comes from the fact that Keith appears to be in his own fantasy land. I don't think, had he been normal (whatever that is) he would have created the songs he has, in the circumstances that he has throughout is life.

He has this romantic notion of the band and his playing that just doesn't exist. This might be what carries him on.
Even when its so painfully clear Mick doesn't want to have much to do with him, it seems to go right over Keith's head. He talks about Mick in this warm way, like they are brothers or they share this marriage together. But it hasn't been like that since Bianca. Their relationship, if they have one at all, solely exists so Mick can continue earning huge sums of money with the Stones as a live act. Keith just refuses to acknowledge this, he doesn't even notice the band is no longer his. From the backing singers, to all the musicians beyond the Stones themselves, to the songs being played each night, this is Mick's band, Mick's decisions.

Looking at Keith's hands there, again, a normal person would have realised, you can't play to eighty thousand people, who are paying an obscene amount of money each, with fingers like that. It just wouldn't occur to him.

But Keith makes his own rules, the world according to Keith is how it appears to him, and he believes he is up to the job, and as a consequence of that, he manages to blag his way through, and get up to the job of being guitarist in the best rock and roll band in the world.

Someone forgot to tell Keith its impossible for him now to do this, or they don't dare tell him, but Keith always believe's what he wants to be true, and he somehow pulls it off, even when his most ardent fan's like me say, no no, please Keith, no.

This is a facet to Keith's personality that is rarely mentioned, it brings denial into a whole new spectrum of reality.

I love him for sticking his two fingers up to what anyone says he can or cannot do, he lives in his own bubble of beliefs and possibilities, and looking again at those fingers its just as well. Because those fingers should not be able to play Rock music for 2.5 hours in sometimes cold outdoor temperatures.. He does it with a smile on his face, and he does it spite of obvious difficulties in the most charming way.
Just another reason why i love and admire this man.

For nearly 15 years as a junkie, he once again achieved more than what a junkie should achieve, in those years as an addict he somehow managed to write some of the best Rock songs ever written and tour with the biggest band in the world.

The point i am making is that Keith's artistic abilities were spurred on from the same thing that helps him to continue to be a touring artist today.
He just doesn't except the boundaries and limitations that are set before him, he never did, and he never will, and that is what makes him so different and so special.

From your post one gets the impression that Keith does not earn the large sums of money from live playing, which Mick does. Once again, you attribute motives of a certain kind to one that you don't towards the other in any way. Is it unfair and is it unkind to call this double standards?

There is probably some truth in stone4ever's description of the relationship between Mick and Keith. Seems rather asymmetric to me, and Keith either doesn't see it or pretends not to see it.

Speaking business, Mick is a fake nasty and Keith is a false kind man...

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

What do you mean, powerage? Be honest

Quote
stone4ever
No sorry WITNESS ?? REALLY ?? you miss the point once again.

Mick's relationship with Keith now is a business relationship, a relationship Mick would not have with Keith under any other circumstances.

They earn huge sums of money together, this is why Mick has a relationship with Keith. Its irrelevant that Keith earns the same money. That's not the point i am making. Keith seems to see or hopes for more from his relationship with Mick than just a business. This is part of Keith's romantic notion of life in general explained in my post.

I'm sorry but i went to a lot of trouble in my post to explain things about Keith the way i see it and you are trying to turn it into a Mick against Keith post.
Not happy about that. I'M OFF FOR GOOD THIS TIME. That is an insult to a thoughtful post.

Oh, it is even again!

It is you, who brought in Mick in this context, not me. Myself I have no factual basis for knowing what their utmost motivations are. Especially not, given what has happened in their personal lives recently. Neither do I know how those events may possibly have had an influence on their mutual relationship. You on the other hand seem to pretend to have such a factual basis for your interpretations.

Dream on within your idelogical horizon with its double standards! After you have left for good once again and then quite soon returned anew.

Hi DP You don't like metaphores
Money is a motivation for both but not the only one obviously...

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-08 13:35 by powerage78.

Regarding Keith's sound nowadays, it's just hard on the ears. It's an aural assault everytime he starts playing a solo with that Les Paul Junior. I looked back and noticed he used the Les Paul Junior on SFTD in 1995 aswell, but back then his sound was much more enjoyable, I wish he went back to this smoother sound: video: [youtu.be]

Not just a question of sound...

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

Quote
TheBlockbuster
Regarding Keith's sound nowadays, it's just hard on the ears. It's an aural assault everytime he starts playing a solo with that Les Paul Junior. I looked back and noticed he used the Les Paul Junior on SFTD in 1995 aswell, but back then his sound was much more enjoyable, I wish he went back to this smoother sound: video: [youtu.be]

Keith's new sound to my ears is the sound of destruction and decay, the end of the world as we know it. Like the dawn of a new beginning after the end of days.

Yeah its is where the light comes to an end, and a new dark beginning into a new world order surfaces.

Its bleak.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-08 13:56 by stone4ever.