Tell Me :
Talk
Yeah, that's what the world has turned into, unfortunately. People want a lot for free, without any effort. Treating live music superficially, instead of bothering to check if what the keyboard warriors say is actually true...
Go to the show! Then come back and tell me that Keith was hopeless throughout the concert
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-19 13:29 by DandelionPowderman.
You've got a point there. I did see them however in 2007, in Barcelona, and although I enjoyed myself (Spanish people are very enthusiast during concerts so the athmosphere was great), musically it was sad and painful to see. I blamed it on "the fall" that time, but I don't see much reason to repeat that experience. And especially not for a price of about 180 euros. I think there's quite some space between "for free" and "180 euros", just as there's quite some space between "unpolished rock n roll" and "oh well, they're old so let's not blame them".
Yeah, that's true. But there are also tickets for a price in-between those opposites as well
€82.50, for instance, in Amsterdam (seating), or €108.90 for general admission.
I like these fast versions of 1981/82 a lot, not every song, but under my thumb, hangfire and so cold are great!
AND LOOK AT WHAT´S MICK DOING AT THE END OF TUMBLING DICE!!!!!
IS THIS WHAT THE WWW-GENERATION CALLS "ROFL"????
well, my last sentence was a joke, because they are a joke now, but on this board the jokes about their playing is the good way to be...
I gotcha, but there's unfortunately some truth to it anyway (not for you in particular, but for music consumption in general)
That makes sense to me. I am not a guitarist, but it seems to me that Keith freezes for a second during the intro, like how an older golfer gets the yips and sort of stabs at the ball. He doesn't inspire confidence in the others, so they don't follow and looks elsewhere for direction. To continue the yips analogy, Keith is fine once the song is rolling and he is in constant motion.
It IS the same that happens Mick and Charlie didn't have confidence in him in the SSC-clip either.
It doesn't matter if the song is too fast (like SSC) or too slow (like BS).
If the beat gets turned around in vulnerable parts of the song, stuff like this may happen. It's common sense to do what Charlie (and eventually Mick) does. But the thing with the Stones is their ability to follow Keith no matter what happens. That recipe started to go sour by the late 70s/early 80s, when more mistakes happened.
Maybe slanted or biased. I like Dean's reviews because he is present thru most tours and you get a nice flow from show to show. And yes he seems genuine without being controversial IMO.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-19 14:58 by Maindefender.
I get it. You paid a fortune to see Keith Richards from up close.
I like them, too, always have.
But they're not more «honest» than yours or mine
Did I? .....and how do you know that Mr Carpet burn............OHHH, you're being a smart ass, I get it.......
His is more like a traveling blog and I think he treats it that way. For me I'd be comparing my live experience from a dozen shows over the course of 36 years. Not to compare again but Dean reminds me of the great Deadheads I would rely on for show reviews in the GD Compendium or Deadbase. I knew I was getting some meat on the bone....
Yes, that's a very good version.
He's a good writer. Plus he doesn't engage on "Tell Me" very often which I respect. I don't think I've seen a review like his from you in the tour section but I'm sure I would enjoy it also....
Is it safe to say that for the 1989 'reunion' tour that they quietly took away Keith's onstage leadership? That while yes, his guitar continued to drive the songs, the band stuck more to the script.
I remember reading that during that tour, Keith wrote that he would sometimes deliberately start the song a second or two after Mick had stopped into the spotlight, in a sort of '@#$%& you' protest to leave Mick hanging for an instant.
LOL, I'm not on Dean's level when it comes to write ups like these. Not even remotely near that level, hehe.
But I do write reviews. Here's one from the tour opener in Oslo in 2014 (By Bård Andersson): [iorr.org]
Yes, that's great stuff. You're doing a good job in showing clips where Keith and the Stones shine.
Yes and no, I'd say. The songs they hadn't played for a while, if ever (and there were quite a few of them) were controlled by Chuck.
The classics were still very much controlled by Keith, hence could be sounding more «ragged».
I think there is an element of truth to this Redhotcarpet, i get the impression keith thinks this is all a bit of a game, a walk through the park. He thinks yeah Mick's given me the call, i just show up for work and coast and enjoy the ride, say high to the band and the fans one more time, job done.
He has this romantic notion when it comes to his relationship with the fans, he loves them and they love him back, what's all this business about rehearsing, this is rock and roll, its not about practicing and taking the spontaneity out of it he thinks to himself, and subsequently he underplays his responsibility within the band and forgets the seriousness of his role in playing live. I bet Keith doesn't even practice at home before the band get together.
I think he may be naively unaware of the seriousness undertaken with these tours, with promoters encouraging the band to charge top money for seeing the Stones.
People expect a certain degree of professionalism, they want to hear great solo's from Keith and they are not getting them, well not to the level expected when you go to such expense and time to see them.
Mick always gets this message, he knows what's expected from him at this level and performs accordingly, even if Mick is poorly it's not like you could notice, this dedication to deliver is and has always been lost on Keith, if he saw it this way i doubt very much that he would want to perform.
I honestly think Keith is getting the message now and i don't think its too late for him to adjust his performances with the right attitude.
I have studied Keith for so many years now and these patterns emerge.
I think he was so god damn gifted in the past that he could turn up tired, drunk, stoned, high or just plain hung over and still pull it out of the bag.
But at almost 74 years of age he can't do that, he might think he can, and to a lesser degree he obviously manages to scrape through , but its not going to be good enough for the critical eye of iorr.
I think this is what's happening here, we are expecting too much from all of them. At 70 + these old guys will never be cooking on gas at the same time for 2.5 hours. Its impossible for them, they did it a few years ago on certain nights, but even a few years at their ages is a lot of difference.
I hear a lot of people saying Keith looks distracted, well man i get distracted because two people are talking to me at the same time, let alone playing different songs in different keys ( to accommodate Mick ) then the weather is too cold for his fingers, then Charlie and Mick are not spot on all the time, Ronnie is a loose cannon all over place, the tempo of the songs has been slowed down for some ridiculous reason, of course Keith is distracted, the man is old trying to play a young man's game, i say it again, musically a lot more rides on Keith than the others, his guitar structures these songs from beginning to end, he has to play full on for the full show except a few songs like Miss You.
Of course he gets distracted.
This is not true at all. Keith knows it. Mick knows it. Everyone knows it. It's why they rehearsed in New Jersey in 2012 before they announced the 50th anniversary shows. And it's very likely why Keith considered retiring before Steve Jordan encouraged him out of it.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 19, 2017 13:29
Quote
ouroux58Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58
It's not just that they make mistakes, there was some in the past every show but now, Keith forgot how to play guitar.
Its easy to understand. He is old and can't play guitar now, that's life but he have to stop now.
If you like the dentist you use always go to, and now he is 70 with a tembling hand, what will you do?
What you do now is to cherry pick moments in the show, when you say he can't play anymore. By watching a whole show, you'll find that your statement is inaccurate at best
And you could pay at the end of the show only for the good moments. Satisfait ou remboursé.
Yeah, that's what the world has turned into, unfortunately. People want a lot for free, without any effort. Treating live music superficially, instead of bothering to check if what the keyboard warriors say is actually true...
Go to the show! Then come back and tell me that Keith was hopeless throughout the concert
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-19 13:29 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: September 19, 2017 13:55
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58
It's not just that they make mistakes, there was some in the past every show but now, Keith forgot how to play guitar.
Its easy to understand. He is old and can't play guitar now, that's life but he have to stop now.
If you like the dentist you use always go to, and now he is 70 with a tembling hand, what will you do?
What you do now is to cherry pick moments in the show, when you say he can't play anymore. By watching a whole show, you'll find that your statement is inaccurate at best
And you could pay at the end of the show only for the good moments. Satisfait ou remboursé.
Yeah, that's what the world has turned into, unfortunately. People want a lot for free, without any effort. Treating live music superficially, instead of bothering to check if what the keyboard warriors say is actually true...
Go to the show! Then come back and tell me that Keith was hopeless throughout the concert
You've got a point there. I did see them however in 2007, in Barcelona, and although I enjoyed myself (Spanish people are very enthusiast during concerts so the athmosphere was great), musically it was sad and painful to see. I blamed it on "the fall" that time, but I don't see much reason to repeat that experience. And especially not for a price of about 180 euros. I think there's quite some space between "for free" and "180 euros", just as there's quite some space between "unpolished rock n roll" and "oh well, they're old so let's not blame them".
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 19, 2017 13:59
Quote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58
It's not just that they make mistakes, there was some in the past every show but now, Keith forgot how to play guitar.
Its easy to understand. He is old and can't play guitar now, that's life but he have to stop now.
If you like the dentist you use always go to, and now he is 70 with a tembling hand, what will you do?
What you do now is to cherry pick moments in the show, when you say he can't play anymore. By watching a whole show, you'll find that your statement is inaccurate at best
And you could pay at the end of the show only for the good moments. Satisfait ou remboursé.
Yeah, that's what the world has turned into, unfortunately. People want a lot for free, without any effort. Treating live music superficially, instead of bothering to check if what the keyboard warriors say is actually true...
Go to the show! Then come back and tell me that Keith was hopeless throughout the concert
You've got a point there. I did see them however in 2007, in Barcelona, and although I enjoyed myself (Spanish people are very enthusiast during concerts so the athmosphere was great), musically it was sad and painful to see. I blamed it on "the fall" that time, but I don't see much reason to repeat that experience. And especially not for a price of about 180 euros. I think there's quite some space between "for free" and "180 euros", just as there's quite some space between "unpolished rock n roll" and "oh well, they're old so let's not blame them".
Yeah, that's true. But there are also tickets for a price in-between those opposites as well
€82.50, for instance, in Amsterdam (seating), or €108.90 for general admission.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
onestep
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:10
THE Rolling Stones....this is what they are now....this is what the performance is all about...and Keith Richards is a big part of it...he was right in front of me in Detroit playing perfectly for THE ROLLING STONES...if you don't get it......then you don't get it.
video: [m.youtube.com]
video: [m.youtube.com]
Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by:
RawIguanaCologne
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:23
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
[...]
And you would never ever consider seeing the Stones based on this She's So Cold either, right? (starts at 3:08) I'm sure there examples from every tour. The difference now is that every chord they play is put under the microscope, because of cell phones and computers
I actually love that "She's So Cold" version, and it sure would NOT keep me from buying a ticket at all. Yes, they mess up and Mick saves the day, but clearly (and I know you see this clearly too), the way they mess up there is completely different from what is going wrong now. You know it, I know it, it's clear for everyone to see.
But I am a bit surprised, because you've been posting quite a number of clips to "show" that they are still sounding great, and I am saying this not to be negative or nasty, but not a single one I have been able to sit out. Actually, I got a bit emotional even, seeing Keith so sad and lost on stage and sounding so useless and wrong in each song. But okay, I can understand that it's not nice to read this sort of thing so I won't go on harping about it. I´m just surprised, but also sad and worried for them, because how will this do them any good?
Of course I do! But the difference is that it doesn't matter for me how they mess it up. That SSC is unlistenable, just like the BS-intro was in Spielberg.
Cocaine or old age? Best of two evils? Nah, bad is bad...
I wouldn't say that the big difference is cocaine or old age. Rather a Keith that still commands (albeit wrongly in SSC, although I'm not sure how much it's his' or Charlie's mistake) or only a Keith that is just playing about 10% of what he used to do. Take that clip from Play With Fire. Ronnie is doing a fine job, the rest is Mick and Chuck Leavell. Where is Keith?
The same thing happens in both clips (Wembley 1982 and Spielberg 2017). Keith is in command (at first), but is eventually ignored by Mick to get the rhythm back on track again.
I like these fast versions of 1981/82 a lot, not every song, but under my thumb, hangfire and so cold are great!
AND LOOK AT WHAT´S MICK DOING AT THE END OF TUMBLING DICE!!!!!
IS THIS WHAT THE WWW-GENERATION CALLS "ROFL"????
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
ouroux58
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:47
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58
It's not just that they make mistakes, there was some in the past every show but now, Keith forgot how to play guitar.
Its easy to understand. He is old and can't play guitar now, that's life but he have to stop now.
If you like the dentist you use always go to, and now he is 70 with a tembling hand, what will you do?
What you do now is to cherry pick moments in the show, when you say he can't play anymore. By watching a whole show, you'll find that your statement is inaccurate at best
And you could pay at the end of the show only for the good moments. Satisfait ou remboursé.
Yeah, that's what the world has turned into, unfortunately. People want a lot for free, without any effort. Treating live music superficially, instead of bothering to check if what the keyboard warriors say is actually true...
Go to the show! Then come back and tell me that Keith was hopeless throughout the concert
You've got a point there. I did see them however in 2007, in Barcelona, and although I enjoyed myself (Spanish people are very enthusiast during concerts so the athmosphere was great), musically it was sad and painful to see. I blamed it on "the fall" that time, but I don't see much reason to repeat that experience. And especially not for a price of about 180 euros. I think there's quite some space between "for free" and "180 euros", just as there's quite some space between "unpolished rock n roll" and "oh well, they're old so let's not blame them".
Yeah, that's true. But there are also tickets for a price in-between those opposites as well
€82.50, for instance, in Amsterdam (seating), or €108.90 for general admission.
well, my last sentence was a joke, because they are a joke now, but on this board the jokes about their playing is the good way to be...
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:49
Quote
ouroux58Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
ouroux58
It's not just that they make mistakes, there was some in the past every show but now, Keith forgot how to play guitar.
Its easy to understand. He is old and can't play guitar now, that's life but he have to stop now.
If you like the dentist you use always go to, and now he is 70 with a tembling hand, what will you do?
What you do now is to cherry pick moments in the show, when you say he can't play anymore. By watching a whole show, you'll find that your statement is inaccurate at best
And you could pay at the end of the show only for the good moments. Satisfait ou remboursé.
Yeah, that's what the world has turned into, unfortunately. People want a lot for free, without any effort. Treating live music superficially, instead of bothering to check if what the keyboard warriors say is actually true...
Go to the show! Then come back and tell me that Keith was hopeless throughout the concert
You've got a point there. I did see them however in 2007, in Barcelona, and although I enjoyed myself (Spanish people are very enthusiast during concerts so the athmosphere was great), musically it was sad and painful to see. I blamed it on "the fall" that time, but I don't see much reason to repeat that experience. And especially not for a price of about 180 euros. I think there's quite some space between "for free" and "180 euros", just as there's quite some space between "unpolished rock n roll" and "oh well, they're old so let's not blame them".
Yeah, that's true. But there are also tickets for a price in-between those opposites as well
€82.50, for instance, in Amsterdam (seating), or €108.90 for general admission.
well, my last sentence was a joke, because they are a joke now, but on this board the jokes about their playing is the good way to be...
I gotcha, but there's unfortunately some truth to it anyway (not for you in particular, but for music consumption in general)
Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:50
Quote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
If that one rocks, how come the Spielberg BS doesn't? Both fall apart, for the very same musical reasons.
No, they don't.
SSC falls apart because Keith is overdoing the Chuck Berry-approach (i.e. the hickupping of the riff), which confuses Charlie so he comes in out of phase, Keith tries to emphasise again by syncoping the rhythm, Charlie still doesn't know how to correct and then Mick does his "I´m so hot of her, I´m so hot of her" thing repeatedly to bring things back on track.
BS falls apart because they play it way too slow (I don't care if the speed is the same as on the original, the drive&groove is slow and tired), Keith plays the riff weak, not clear, seems to be struggling, Charlie is following the directions of Chuck (as he should, because it's the only way to keep the show going), Ronnie is trying hard to make things work (hats off to him, he's in an awful position) and Mick jumps in after Charlie's drum roll (which is one bar too soon, but if he would have waited God knows if he'd have had another chance) and then they sort of slow-waltz the thing to its sad end.
That makes sense to me. I am not a guitarist, but it seems to me that Keith freezes for a second during the intro, like how an older golfer gets the yips and sort of stabs at the ball. He doesn't inspire confidence in the others, so they don't follow and looks elsewhere for direction. To continue the yips analogy, Keith is fine once the song is rolling and he is in constant motion.
Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:54
Quote
wonderboyQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
If that one rocks, how come the Spielberg BS doesn't? Both fall apart, for the very same musical reasons.
No, they don't.
SSC falls apart because Keith is overdoing the Chuck Berry-approach (i.e. the hickupping of the riff), which confuses Charlie so he comes in out of phase, Keith tries to emphasise again by syncoping the rhythm, Charlie still doesn't know how to correct and then Mick does his "I´m so hot of her, I´m so hot of her" thing repeatedly to bring things back on track.
BS falls apart because they play it way too slow (I don't care if the speed is the same as on the original, the drive&groove is slow and tired), Keith plays the riff weak, not clear, seems to be struggling, Charlie is following the directions of Chuck (as he should, because it's the only way to keep the show going), Ronnie is trying hard to make things work (hats off to him, he's in an awful position) and Mick jumps in after Charlie's drum roll (which is one bar too soon, but if he would have waited God knows if he'd have had another chance) and then they sort of slow-waltz the thing to its sad end.
That makes sense to me. I am not a guitarist, but it seems to me that Keith freezes for a second during the intro, like how an older golfer gets the yips and sort of stabs at the ball. He doesn't inspire confidence in the others, so they don't follow and looks elsewhere for direction. To continue the yips analogy, Keith is fine once the song is rolling and he is in constant motion.
It IS the same that happens
Mick and Charlie didn't have confidence in him in the SSC-clip either.It doesn't matter if the song is too fast (like SSC) or too slow (like BS).
If the beat gets turned around in vulnerable parts of the song, stuff like this may happen. It's common sense to do what Charlie (and eventually Mick) does. But the thing with the Stones is their ability to follow Keith no matter what happens. That recipe started to go sour by the late 70s/early 80s, when more mistakes happened.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:54
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stone4ever
I would just like to thank DEAN GOODMAN for his honest reviews.
Its so refreshing to know we can get the truth from someone when we are not at the show..
Thank you very much, and keep it real.
Do dishonest reviews exist?
Maybe slanted or biased. I like Dean's reviews because he is present thru most tours and you get a nice flow from show to show. And yes he seems genuine without being controversial IMO.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-19 14:58 by Maindefender.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:54
Quote
onestep
THE Rolling Stones....this is what they are now....this is what the performance is all about...and Keith Richards is a big part of it...he was right in front of me in Detroit playing perfectly for THE ROLLING STONES...if you don't get it......then you don't get it.
video: [m.youtube.com]
I get it. You paid a fortune to see Keith Richards from up close.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:55
Quote
MaindefenderQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stone4ever
I would just like to thank DEAN GOODMAN for his honest reviews.
Its so refreshing to know we can get the truth from someone when we are not at the show..
Thank you very much, and keep it real.
Do dishonest reviews exist?
Maybe slanted or biased. I like Dean's reviews because he is present thru most tours and you get a nice flow from show to show. And yes he some seems genuine without being controversial IMO.
I like them, too, always have.
But they're not more «honest» than yours or mine
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: September 19, 2017 14:57
Maybe the problem is noone gives Keith Richards honest feedback. Not even Mick. He is just supposed to turn up, perform his part (ie start the songs with a trademark riff), to be like Keith Richards onstage and perform two heartfelt solo numbers.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
onestep
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:08
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
onestep
THE Rolling Stones....this is what they are now....this is what the performance is all about...and Keith Richards is a big part of it...he was right in front of me in Detroit playing perfectly for THE ROLLING STONES...if you don't get it......then you don't get it.
video: [m.youtube.com]
I get it. You paid a fortune to see Keith Richards from up close.
Did I? .....and how do you know that Mr Carpet burn............OHHH, you're being a smart ass, I get it.......
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:08
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
MaindefenderQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stone4ever
I would just like to thank DEAN GOODMAN for his honest reviews.
Its so refreshing to know we can get the truth from someone when we are not at the show..
Thank you very much, and keep it real.
Do dishonest reviews exist?
Maybe slanted or biased. I like Dean's reviews because he is present thru most tours and you get a nice flow from show to show. And yes he some seems genuine without being controversial IMO.
I like them, too, always have.
But they're not more «honest» than yours or mine
His is more like a traveling blog and I think he treats it that way. For me I'd be comparing my live experience from a dozen shows over the course of 36 years. Not to compare again but Dean reminds me of the great Deadheads I would rely on for show reviews in the GD Compendium or Deadbase. I knew I was getting some meat on the bone....
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:10
Quote
onestep
THE Rolling Stones....this is what they are now....this is what the performance is all about...and Keith Richards is a big part of it...he was right in front of me in Detroit playing perfectly for THE ROLLING STONES...if you don't get it......then you don't get it.
video: [m.youtube.com]
Yes, that's a very good version.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:12
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
MaindefenderQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stone4ever
I would just like to thank DEAN GOODMAN for his honest reviews.
Its so refreshing to know we can get the truth from someone when we are not at the show..
Thank you very much, and keep it real.
Do dishonest reviews exist?
Maybe slanted or biased. I like Dean's reviews because he is present thru most tours and you get a nice flow from show to show. And yes he some seems genuine without being controversial IMO.
I like them, too, always have.
But they're not more «honest» than yours or mine
He's a good writer. Plus he doesn't engage on "Tell Me" very often which I respect. I don't think I've seen a review like his from you in the tour section but I'm sure I would enjoy it also....
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
stonerolling
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:14
Start Me Up Spielberg
Find this interesting. About 1:45min he plays the riff instead of going in to the next section, a few moments later he's pointing at his hands, then does the same a little later. Wondering if the colder European weather is impacting the arthritis...
Anyway, still looking forward to Barca!
Find this interesting. About 1:45min he plays the riff instead of going in to the next section, a few moments later he's pointing at his hands, then does the same a little later. Wondering if the colder European weather is impacting the arthritis...
Anyway, still looking forward to Barca!
Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:15
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It doesn't matter if the song is too fast (like SSC) or too slow (like BS).
If the beat gets turned around in vulnerable parts of the song, stuff like this may happen. It's common sense to do what Charlie (and eventually Mick) does. But the thing with the Stones is their ability to follow Keith no matter what happens. That recipe started to go sour by the late 70s/early 80s, when more mistakes happened.
Is it safe to say that for the 1989 'reunion' tour that they quietly took away Keith's onstage leadership? That while yes, his guitar continued to drive the songs, the band stuck more to the script.
I remember reading that during that tour, Keith wrote that he would sometimes deliberately start the song a second or two after Mick had stopped into the spotlight, in a sort of '@#$%& you' protest to leave Mick hanging for an instant.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
onestep
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:16
This is a clip that is rare for The Stones, and really endearing to fans.
I love it.....
video: [www.youtube.com]
I love it.....
video: [www.youtube.com]
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:20
Quote
MaindefenderQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
MaindefenderQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stone4ever
I would just like to thank DEAN GOODMAN for his honest reviews.
Its so refreshing to know we can get the truth from someone when we are not at the show..
Thank you very much, and keep it real.
Do dishonest reviews exist?
Maybe slanted or biased. I like Dean's reviews because he is present thru most tours and you get a nice flow from show to show. And yes he some seems genuine without being controversial IMO.
I like them, too, always have.
But they're not more «honest» than yours or mine
He's a good writer. Plus he doesn't engage on "Tell Me" very often which I respect. I don't think I've seen a review like his from you in the tour section but I'm sure I would enjoy it also....
LOL, I'm not on Dean's level when it comes to write ups like these. Not even remotely near that level, hehe.
But I do write reviews. Here's one from the tour opener in Oslo in 2014 (By Bård Andersson): [iorr.org]
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:44
Quote
onestep
This is a clip that is rare for The Stones, and really endearing to fans.
I love it.....
video: [www.youtube.com]
Yes, that's great stuff. You're doing a good job in showing clips where Keith and the Stones shine.
Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:46
Quote
wonderboyQuote
DandelionPowderman
It doesn't matter if the song is too fast (like SSC) or too slow (like BS).
If the beat gets turned around in vulnerable parts of the song, stuff like this may happen. It's common sense to do what Charlie (and eventually Mick) does. But the thing with the Stones is their ability to follow Keith no matter what happens. That recipe started to go sour by the late 70s/early 80s, when more mistakes happened.
Is it safe to say that for the 1989 'reunion' tour that they quietly took away Keith's onstage leadership? That while yes, his guitar continued to drive the songs, the band stuck more to the script.
I remember reading that during that tour, Keith wrote that he would sometimes deliberately start the song a second or two after Mick had stopped into the spotlight, in a sort of '@#$%& you' protest to leave Mick hanging for an instant.
Yes and no, I'd say. The songs they hadn't played for a while, if ever (and there were quite a few of them) were controlled by Chuck.
The classics were still very much controlled by Keith, hence could be sounding more «ragged».
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: September 19, 2017 15:46
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Maybe the problem is noone gives Keith Richards honest feedback. Not even Mick. He is just supposed to turn up, perform his part (ie start the songs with a trademark riff), to be like Keith Richards onstage and perform two heartfelt solo numbers.
I think there is an element of truth to this Redhotcarpet, i get the impression keith thinks this is all a bit of a game, a walk through the park. He thinks yeah Mick's given me the call, i just show up for work and coast and enjoy the ride, say high to the band and the fans one more time, job done.
He has this romantic notion when it comes to his relationship with the fans, he loves them and they love him back, what's all this business about rehearsing, this is rock and roll, its not about practicing and taking the spontaneity out of it he thinks to himself, and subsequently he underplays his responsibility within the band and forgets the seriousness of his role in playing live. I bet Keith doesn't even practice at home before the band get together.
I think he may be naively unaware of the seriousness undertaken with these tours, with promoters encouraging the band to charge top money for seeing the Stones.
People expect a certain degree of professionalism, they want to hear great solo's from Keith and they are not getting them, well not to the level expected when you go to such expense and time to see them.
Mick always gets this message, he knows what's expected from him at this level and performs accordingly, even if Mick is poorly it's not like you could notice, this dedication to deliver is and has always been lost on Keith, if he saw it this way i doubt very much that he would want to perform.
I honestly think Keith is getting the message now and i don't think its too late for him to adjust his performances with the right attitude.
I have studied Keith for so many years now and these patterns emerge.
I think he was so god damn gifted in the past that he could turn up tired, drunk, stoned, high or just plain hung over and still pull it out of the bag.
But at almost 74 years of age he can't do that, he might think he can, and to a lesser degree he obviously manages to scrape through , but its not going to be good enough for the critical eye of iorr.
I think this is what's happening here, we are expecting too much from all of them. At 70 + these old guys will never be cooking on gas at the same time for 2.5 hours. Its impossible for them, they did it a few years ago on certain nights, but even a few years at their ages is a lot of difference.
I hear a lot of people saying Keith looks distracted, well man i get distracted because two people are talking to me at the same time, let alone playing different songs in different keys ( to accommodate Mick ) then the weather is too cold for his fingers, then Charlie and Mick are not spot on all the time, Ronnie is a loose cannon all over place, the tempo of the songs has been slowed down for some ridiculous reason, of course Keith is distracted, the man is old trying to play a young man's game, i say it again, musically a lot more rides on Keith than the others, his guitar structures these songs from beginning to end, he has to play full on for the full show except a few songs like Miss You.
Of course he gets distracted.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
onestep
()
Date: September 19, 2017 16:23
Quote
stone4everQuote
Redhotcarpet
Maybe the problem is noone gives Keith Richards honest feedback. Not even Mick. He is just supposed to turn up, perform his part (ie start the songs with a trademark riff), to be like Keith Richards onstage and perform two heartfelt solo numbers.
I think there is an element of truth to this Redhotcarpet, i get the impression keith thinks this is all a bit of a game, a walk through the park. He thinks yeah Mick's given me the call, i just show up for work and coast and enjoy the ride, say high to the band and the fans one more time, job done.
He has this romantic notion when it comes to his relationship with the fans, he loves them and they love him back, what's all this business about rehearsing, this is rock and roll, its not about practicing and taking the spontaneity out of it he thinks to himself, and subsequently he underplays his responsibility within the band and forgets the seriousness of his role in playing live. I bet Keith doesn't even practice at home before the band get together.
I think he may be naively unaware of the seriousness undertaken with these tours, with promoters encouraging the band to charge top money for seeing the Stones.
People expect a certain degree of professionalism, they want to hear great solo's from Keith and they are not getting them, well not to the level expected when you go to such expense and time to see them.
Mick always gets this message, he knows what's expected from him at this level and performs accordingly, even if Mick is poorly it's not like you could notice, this dedication to deliver is and has always been lost on Keith, if he saw it this way i doubt very much that he would want to perform.
I honestly think Keith is getting the message now and i don't think its too late for him to adjust his performances with the right attitude.
I have studied Keith for so many years now and these patterns emerge.
I think he was so god damn gifted in the past that he could turn up tired, drunk, stoned, high or just plain hung over and still pull it out of the bag.
But at almost 74 years of age he can't do that, he might think he can, and to a lesser degree he obviously manages to scrape through , but its not going to be good enough for the critical eye of iorr.
I think this is what's happening here, we are expecting too much from all of them. At 70 + these old guys will never be cooking on gas at the same time for 2.5 hours. Its impossible for them, they did it a few years ago on certain nights, but even a few years at their ages is a lot of difference.
I hear a lot of people saying Keith looks distracted, well man i get distracted because two people are talking to me at the same time, let alone playing different songs in different keys ( to accommodate Mick ) then the weather is too cold for his fingers, then Charlie and Mick are not spot on all the time, Ronnie is a loose cannon all over place, the tempo of the songs has been slowed down for some ridiculous reason, of course Keith is distracted, the man is old trying to play a young man's game, i say it again, musically a lot more rides on Keith than the others, his guitar structures these songs from beginning to end, he has to play full on for the full show except a few songs like Miss You.
Of course he gets distracted.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: September 19, 2017 16:46
That said,
If Keith did suddenly start putting in a studiously safe performance, we'd no doubt get a tidier result ...
...but would we loose the odd flash of spontaneous genius that we're still rewarded with from time to time ?
And yes, Keith's always "winged it" ...and maybe can't get away with it like he used to...but I'm not sure I'd want him to change.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-19 16:55 by Spud.
If Keith did suddenly start putting in a studiously safe performance, we'd no doubt get a tidier result ...
...but would we loose the odd flash of spontaneous genius that we're still rewarded with from time to time ?
And yes, Keith's always "winged it" ...and maybe can't get away with it like he used to...but I'm not sure I'd want him to change.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-19 16:55 by Spud.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
MelBelli
()
Date: September 19, 2017 16:49
Quote
stone4ever
I think there is an element of truth to this Redhotcarpet, i get the impression keith thinks this is all a bit of a game, a walk through the park. He thinks yeah Mick's given me the call, i just show up for work and coast and enjoy the ride, say high to the band and the fans one more time, job done.
He has this romantic notion when it comes to his relationship with the fans, he loves them and they love him back, what's all this business about rehearsing, this is rock and roll, its not about practicing and taking the spontaneity out of it he thinks to himself, and subsequently he underplays his responsibility within the band and forgets the seriousness of his role in playing live...
This is not true at all. Keith knows it. Mick knows it. Everyone knows it. It's why they rehearsed in New Jersey in 2012 before they announced the 50th anniversary shows. And it's very likely why Keith considered retiring before Steve Jordan encouraged him out of it.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: September 19, 2017 16:54
If I take into account that the majority is good-hearted here, i.e. Stones-friendly, but many are very critical, the band should seriously take into consideration to quit. At least the live-performances are awkward again and again. It is obvious that they don't lose all their musical skills, Blue and Lonesome is a very good work, and they aren't forbidden to go quartely in the studio recording a new Blues album e.g. Many of us would be happy to hear them doing what is the core of their competencies: the pure Blues with rocking elements.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
laertisflash
()
Date: September 19, 2017 16:57
To Dandelion Powderman:
Man, your example about SSC from the particular gig of 1982 was determinant and illuminating! Because, after this, the whole conversation does show - in a clearest way - that some folks here are fully idolazing the past and underating (dramatically I could say) what the band offers today. Of course, on this board we have different opinions, as for many issues. Nothing wrong, people love different parts of the Stones, after all. Everyone is entitled on his opinion, of course. But, I’m really astonished that some folks consider as good and charming the absolute trainwreck of SSC at the Leeds (1982) and, at the same time, they “crucify”, for example, the version of Gimme Shelter from Spielberg 2017… For me, it’s so crazy, that I can’t even argue on that…
Man, your example about SSC from the particular gig of 1982 was determinant and illuminating! Because, after this, the whole conversation does show - in a clearest way - that some folks here are fully idolazing the past and underating (dramatically I could say) what the band offers today. Of course, on this board we have different opinions, as for many issues. Nothing wrong, people love different parts of the Stones, after all. Everyone is entitled on his opinion, of course. But, I’m really astonished that some folks consider as good and charming the absolute trainwreck of SSC at the Leeds (1982) and, at the same time, they “crucify”, for example, the version of Gimme Shelter from Spielberg 2017… For me, it’s so crazy, that I can’t even argue on that…
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: September 19, 2017 17:12
After tours in '81 or '82, they stopped touring for seven years, and I would argue that incidents like that SSC train wreck played into Mick's decision. They were a different band when they returned.
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