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StonedRambler
I was in Hamburg and in Munich. Really, there's have been shows in recent years where he played worse

What shows ? In what review ???
I only read awesome, best show ever, Keith was on fire since many years !
Nothing negative except perharps 2007...

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 18:56 by powerage78.

As others have pointed-out innumerable times, Keith's playing-abilty has been in a state of gradual decline since the mid-1990's. As he continuously ages, becoming increasingly less dexterous, we will see further decline, still. It's life. I suppose as time passes, it becomes more evident. Perhaps a stage has been reached where his shortcomings are all too noticeable; uncomfortably so, maybe.

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dead.flowers

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corriecas
Keefs current guitar solos are like drips from Heaven.although some depressed people dont think so.
Jeroen
Guess im gonna go to jail for this remark

Well spoken, Jeroen. Let me just throw in my unprofessional remarks.

There's so much negative criticism around here. The band members look old. Mick's messing up a verses. Keith's playing out of key.

Well, but it makes me happy to hear and see them. It gives me goose bumps. It floods my body with happiness hormones. I'm still on a high from the Hamburg show. There's nothing like that in the world.

God bless.

d.f

AGREE 100% WITH BOTH. I'm signing off before I start swearing. We had a ball in Hamburg. Opening night after nearly a year off the road and no warm up gig. .....I'm out of here.
sc uk

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Rocky Dijon
I guess it's just perspective. I haven't attended a show since 2002 and likely won't, but I watch every official concert release and check out a lot of what gets posted to Youtube. What amazes me now and has for years is how good they are enough of the time for men their ages and in their shape. I think they're amazing. I don't go to it expecting to hear them like they were 40 or 50 years ago. The very notion seems ridiculous to me. I understand thinking it's overpriced entertainment. No one forces anyone to go. You can sit at home and still see them in concert one way or another. The extremes that some people react to them makes me think they either don't grasp their ages and condition or they probably have a problem around old people in real life as well. Yes, they move slowly. It takes a long time to tell a story. They lose their train of thought. They smell sometimes or have difficulty doing things younger, healthier people can do. It's part of life. We start out helpless and some of us live long enough to become helpless again. If you don't want to see an old entertainer, then stay away. The same applied to Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, or Frank Sinatra, Jerry Lewis, and the rest of their generation of entertainers. People get old and it shows on their faces and how they move and think. It's a fact.

Nice post. Hopefully you don't mind me adding the italics. Although I agree with much of your post (it articulates many of my own thoughts) that one line REALLY caught my attention.

Sometimes I find myself wondering how many of these people only keep their dogs and cats as pets while they cute little puppies and kittens abandoning them when they mature or, God forbid, become old and have to slow down.

It really scares me to think that some of these people may have authority and influence to determine how I'm allowed to live out my older years. They apparently have no qualms when it comes to voicing their opinions and desires for aged people they have no actual connection to whom they supposedly admire (or once admired) and I can only imagine what they might have planned for little old me.

Disclaimer: I am not a psychologist but have been an active people watcher (and listener) for decades.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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DandelionPowderman
There's no truth, but I really liked this one.





[www.youtube.com]

Yeah nice, and of a higher quality video than I saw before (as are all posted on youtube by Daydream Visuals) - both the visuals and audio.
Yet Micks vocals still sound kind of weird...a bit nasally, maybe a bit forced, a bit exagerrated maybe. Might be tricky though to be subtle and mellow after the first six blasting tunes of that setlist - and directly after the two blues numbers wailing away on harp. At any rate, sounded nice overall and hope they give it another try at least one more time throughout this tour.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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StonedRambler
I was in Hamburg and in Munich. In Munich he played as good as he can get since 2012. Really, there's have been shows in recent years where he played much worse. There have been only two major moments when he played wrong notes, and that is not much if you ask me. After Hamburg I was also really worried since he messed up so much, but it was probably his opening night nervousness plus he did not play much for about a year and it was cold. Yes, it is true that Keith does not play as good as in the past - his playing deteriorated around 1994 and again around 2005. But that is nothing new and so this thread does not reveal anything new...

With Keiths current guitar sound - that is really just a thing of taste. I think that this is his best live guitar sound ever, others prefer the 1989 tour which sounded to clean and sterile to me.

Well said, but I don't think he messed up in Hamburg, though the overall playing in Munich was better. But that also goes for the rest of them.

Keith's been playing more or less like this the last 4-5 years, so I do not understand why some people should make this such a big issue now?
He has butchered intros to Start Me Up, Brown Sugar and others over the years without this massive kind of negative comments.

Some of the posts on this board the last few days seems to indicate personal hatred against the man who's been part of this band and pleased fans for way more than 50 years.

I am sure they all are trying to entertain us the best they can, some nights this works better than others. Some songs work better live than others.
It has always been like that, and it will continue to be like that.
I enjoyed both concerts very much, loved the blues songs and DWMD. The sound system is very good. It is the Rolling Stones. I look forward to the next concert.

Well said, GeorgV.

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GeorgV
Keith's been playing more or less like this the last 4-5 years, so I do not understand why some people should make this such a big issue now?
He has butchered intros to Start Me Up, Brown Sugar and others over the years without this massive kind of negative comments.

Several threads up now about these issues had me worried. All this hysteria had me thinking Keith was playing like those awful few weeks of his "moustache period" in Europe 2007 (forgetting the song, falling down, etc. He wasn't mentally there at at some points). If that was the case, I don't think they could hold it together. I don't know how he managed to survive the tour at that point to be honest. But he did, and things got a lot better after the time off. If he's awake and alert and present, I can forgive a little bit of increased rust over the last couple of years, but that was a scary time after the fall. I mean, that was bad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 20:43 by Sipuncula.

Ive been an IORRian for over 10 years, typically a silent non-contributer, but...

You guys are all forgetting something super important. We all as fans get to go see(or watch on youtube) the guitar player that created the sound and the riffs we all love, play our favorite songs, even some on Micawber(which is a piece of wood more legendary than most humans).

I'm a guitar player too. Ive studied guitar. Yes he is a sloppy mess this tour, yes the bum notes jar me out of the moment occasionally, no he does not play as well as he was even last year, but its still keith f***** Richards.

I've watched the same pattern happen with elderly family members, it's sad, but it's life. Yeah he probably did piss himself in hamburg, but as long as Keith wants to plug a tele into those roaring fender twins, and as long as Mick, Ronnie, Charlie can keep the rest of the show together, I will still be stoked, buying tickets, watching and listening to whatever bootlegs and youtube I can get my hands on. No matter how bad it gets. It's just another chapter in the book, take it or leave it.

Lastly, all this debate online is not helping the case for those of us who want them to keep going til the end. I'll call our side the "drop dead on stage" group haha.

Keep rolling Keith, we love you.

well said, erbissell.

most of what Keith is playing is supportive and fine..

I wonder if he is a bit still in mourning, regarding Anita..?

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erbissell
Ive been an IORRian for over 10 years, typically a silent non-contributer, but...

You guys are all forgetting something super important. We all as fans get to go see(or watch on youtube) the guitar player that created the sound and the riffs we all love, play our favorite songs, even some on Micawber(which is a piece of wood more legendary than most humans).

I'm a guitar player too. Ive studied guitar. Yes he is a sloppy mess this tour, yes the bum notes jar me out of the moment occasionally, no he does not play as well as he was even last year, but its still keith f***** Richards.

I've watched the same pattern happen with elderly family members, it's sad, but it's life. Yeah he probably did piss himself in hamburg, but as long as Keith wants to plug a tele into those roaring fender twins, and as long as Mick, Ronnie, Charlie can keep the rest of the show together, I will still be stoked, buying tickets, watching and listening to whatever bootlegs and youtube I can get my hands on. No matter how bad it gets. It's just another chapter in the book, take it or leave it.

Lastly, all this debate online is not helping the case for those of us who want them to keep going til the end. I'll call our side the "drop dead on stage" group haha.

Keep rolling Keith, we love you.

Well Said... Don't know if I want to be in the "drop dead on stage" group, but if there's a sub-section called "Never Stop", I'm all in!

Peace,
Mr DJA

They are old... this is unprecedented 70-year-old rockers playing such huge stadiums. As long as Keef has that glimmer... I'm in !!


It's good to be here...

This thread was always going to put people into camps, personally i hope BV closes it before the fights break out.
Someone will have a few too many beers or glasses of wine and it will get ugly.
I feel already that if this thread was started in a negative way about Mick Jagger it would have already got ugly.

Its the law of averages that if a negative post like this hangs around for the next two months its going to upset people.
Its disrespectful to Keith and his followers but most of all its disrespectful to the Rolling Stones.

Its already been established that Keith has played this way on and off since 2012
Its also been established that Keith usually improves as the tour progresses.
Perhaps we should have this discussion towards the end of the tour.
Its a bit premature to bash him now imho.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 22:39 by stone4ever.

with his thick arthritis-ridden fingers, it must be difficult to muster some precise and explosive intros to BS or SMU like he used to decades back, but once he gets into the song, what I hear is still a mighty old powerhouse, underneath all of what they´re playing. To hold down that sound on the stage at such a long show, it`s still a thing to admire, I think, and it`s all Keith`s rock`n`roll at the basics of the music. I still love it.

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Anitapal82
I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar

Keith can't play guitar anymore, lets face it. Arthritis or age or hitting his head. It's over people. I love the band as much as anyone but he can't do it. Watching recent shows is excruciating , I am embarrassed for him . It time to retire gracefully. Most songs now he is simplifying his part until it's virtually non existent. Recent gimme shelter intros , last shows beast of burden are clear evidence. Check out midnight rambler from Munich his tentative playing almost makes it collapse , maybe the worst version I have ever heard. And his guitar solos OMG. listen to honky tony women solos from Hamburg or Munich and say I m negative. I am objective. Also the way he strokes the fretboard searching for what to play constantly is a worry. Keith has been one of the greatest rock stars of all time and it has to end one day . That day has come , unfortunately. Ok I have had my say. Now let me have it . I know some people on this forum cant tolerate a less than glowing review, and are sycophantic , well I am not. Dean goodmans review from Munich was spot on , Keith showed up , he was there but barely.

I give you credit for posting this and stating the obvious. I'll probably get banned from this site but as a long, long time fan (and amateur guitarist), Keith's abilities have declined. I mean, what is the mystery here? The guy is in his 70's and is not immune to the ravages of aging (including arthritis, the fall, etc). I know a lot of people (myself included) have a lot invested in this group and we don't want it to end. I am one of the folks who has taken a step back and believes that they should probably retire before they embarrass themselves and their legacy.

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Sighunt

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Anitapal82
I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar

Keith can't play guitar anymore, lets face it. Arthritis or age or hitting his head. It's over people. I love the band as much as anyone but he can't do it. Watching recent shows is excruciating , I am embarrassed for him . It time to retire gracefully. Most songs now he is simplifying his part until it's virtually non existent. Recent gimme shelter intros , last shows beast of burden are clear evidence. Check out midnight rambler from Munich his tentative playing almost makes it collapse , maybe the worst version I have ever heard. And his guitar solos OMG. listen to honky tony women solos from Hamburg or Munich and say I m negative. I am objective. Also the way he strokes the fretboard searching for what to play constantly is a worry. Keith has been one of the greatest rock stars of all time and it has to end one day . That day has come , unfortunately. Ok I have had my say. Now let me have it . I know some people on this forum cant tolerate a less than glowing review, and are sycophantic , well I am not. Dean goodmans review from Munich was spot on , Keith showed up , he was there but barely.

I give you credit for posting this and stating the obvious. I'll probably get banned from this site but as a long, long time fan (and amateur guitarist), Keith's abilities have declined. I mean, what is the mystery here? The guy is in his 70's and is not immune to the ravages of aging (including arthritis, the fall, etc). I know a lot of people (myself included) have a lot invested in this group and we don't want it to end. I am one of the folks who has taken a step back and believes that they should probably retire before they embarrass themselves and their legacy.

My opinions on this go back and forth so much, maybe I'm schizophrenic, lol but yeah; the thought of my idol Keith Richards embarrassing himself ala Chuck Berry at 87 makes me think maybe they should retire with some dignity intact. On the other hand, what I would like to see (and probably won't) is for Keith to stick to rhythm, maybe let Ron handle the parts he tends to trip over these days, and maybe they could still pull it off to most people's satisfaction for some more years. But I also know there are certain intros and leads that are considered iconic Keith moments, even if he can't do them so well anymore. Whatever, they're The Rolling Stones; they'll do it their way.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

His playing at the 2012 shows was better than a Bigger Bang by far. But I think the tempos are slowing down because it's almost time to hang it up man.

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mr_dja
Sometimes I find myself wondering how many of these people only keep their dogs and cats as pets while they cute little puppies and kittens abandoning them when they mature or, God forbid, become old and have to slow down.

It really scares me to think that some of these people may have authority and influence to determine how I'm allowed to live out my older years. They apparently have no qualms when it comes to voicing their opinions and desires for aged people they have no actual connection to whom they supposedly admire (or once admired) and I can only imagine what they might have planned for little old me.

No way, dude. I've been kicking puppies and kittens to the curb since I was 8. Once those @#$%& aren't cute anymore, I got no time for 'em!

But, if I have anything to say about it, you'll be cool, mr dja. I reserve my hatred for The Rolling Stones; real people are generally ok by me.

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Anitapal82
I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar

Keith can't play guitar anymore, lets face it. Arthritis or age or hitting his head. It's over people. I love the band as much as anyone but he can't do it. Watching recent shows is excruciating , I am embarrassed for him . It time to retire gracefully. Most songs now he is simplifying his part until it's virtually non existent. Recent gimme shelter intros , last shows beast of burden are clear evidence. Check out midnight rambler from Munich his tentative playing almost makes it collapse , maybe the worst version I have ever heard. And his guitar solos OMG. listen to honky tony women solos from Hamburg or Munich and say I m negative. I am objective. Also the way he strokes the fretboard searching for what to play constantly is a worry. Keith has been one of the greatest rock stars of all time and it has to end one day . That day has come , unfortunately. Ok I have had my say. Now let me have it . I know some people on this forum cant tolerate a less than glowing review, and are sycophantic , well I am not. Dean goodmans review from Munich was spot on , Keith showed up , he was there but barely.

...sad but true.

I think there is a key point between two thoughts.

One, coming from Georg V: “Keith's been playing more or less like this the last 4-5 years, so I do not understand why some people should make this such a big issue now?”

The other, coming from Stone4ever: «I think what disappoints now with Keith is not so much what he plays but how he plays it. He moves like an old man, but that is what he is».

The statement of Stone4ever could partly be an answer to Georg’s question (“partly”, because I’m sure that there are various reasons why some people “make this such a big issue now”).

Folks, just listen to JJF from Munich, without seeing the clip. It’s the strong, rocking song, that always we enjoy at the Stones concerts. The well known rock anthem. After that, listen to JJF and see the clip. You’ ll see that Keith plays it being almost hunched. “He moves like an old man”, like Stone4ever says.

JJF was the last song of the gig, so it’s fully normal for a 74 years old guitarist to show his tiredness after a 125 minutes rock gig. Yes, I know. Keith moves much less in the stage, now, during the entire gig. But why should we be disappointed with that? I mean, Keith needs to be concentrate on the music, on what he has to do with the guitar. If he feels that saving everything from his bodily powers is now a prerequisite for do it, for stay concentrate on the music, it’s fine to me.

Times are changing… Some years ago, the were complains about Keith “being poser”, Keith “flicking his leg needlessly, like a karate athlete, playing JJF”, etc. Now Keith moves on stage as less as it is possible. If that’s his current way to play guitar as better as he can, no problem to me. No drama, no disappointment. Mick moves admirably on stage, Ronnie moves on stage. Let Keith be focused on it’s musical job. Not on any theatrical.

Of course, some think that Keith barely moving maybe not exactly a picture of Keith saving all his physical powers, but a sing that he is quickly losing these powers. Let’s see. The fact is that they offer 130 minutes excellent gigs and Keith is a part of it.

Let’s see and don’t forget: We are not oracls… I have been reader of IORR, many years before I joined the board. So, I remember some horrible phrofecies… About Ronnie’s health, about Keith’s health…

I clearly remember the post of a fan who had attended a gig in the USA, during ABB tour. In 2005. The guy wrote that, after having seen Keith’s eays, he felt sure that our hero would be dead after five years (!) at most!...Now, 12 years later, people are discussing about whether he pissed himself in Hamburg (which have happened, many times, to football players…). Not about his “upcoming death”. Could it be called a small achievement? Maybe…

It would help to be 30 years younger, of course, but I'm certain Keith would not have to "fight" this guitar as much as he does his LP Junior and a dry signal:

[youtu.be]

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jlowe
Dame Kiri Te Kawana, the acclaimed Soprano has just announced her retirement from stage work (but may continue to record). She is 73 years old and recognises that her vocal powers are not what they were. She teaches vocal skills to aspiring opera singers and probably sees what they have (at their age), and she no longer has.

Such a lovely singer; such poignance in her announcement:

"When I'm teaching young singers and hearing beautiful young fresh voices, I don't want to put my voice next to theirs," she told the BBC. "I didn't want to hear my voice again. I didn't. That was it."

I really do not see the point of this thread. The bait of "Keith guitar playing comments...then you start out he can't play guitar anymore."

Is that the point then? They should quit, he doesn't belong holding a guitar in public, he should be shamed by this thread, and how dare they?

Looks like a big crowd...and they weren't giving away tickets, and they performed Gimme Shelter pretty good.


video: [www.youtube.com]


My opinion is that he plays pretty good for his age....and isn't as good as he was during the blistering No Security tour. He had a hole drilled in his skull, and has severe arthritis in both hands. So that's my comment...he aging...can play guitar better than some people, and still gives The Rolling Stones their trademark sound. I love them still, and am sorry I can't get to Europe to catch one of these shows...for I fear they will never land on these shores as a performing group again.

My Last Show - Vegas 10-22-16...First Row Mezz Side Stage...got in for $0.00.
They were @#$%& great...Keith Kicked Ass...Sounded great...So if your insight is from You Tube it is way off base...I disagree...Over 50 shows since 75'...It is amazing that there still here doing it...Get to a show...Get Close and Enjoy Keith !!!

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onestep
I really do not see the point of this thread. The bait of "Keith guitar playing comments...then you start out he can't play guitar anymore."

Is that the point then? They should quit, he doesn't belong holding a guitar in public, he should be shamed by this thread, and how dare they?

Looks like a big crowd...and they weren't giving away tickets, and they performed Gimme Shelter pretty good.


video: [www.youtube.com]


My opinion is that he plays pretty good for his age....and isn't as good as he was during the blistering No Security tour. He had a hole drilled in his skull, and has severe arthritis in both hands. So that's my comment...he aging...can play guitar better than some people, and still gives The Rolling Stones their trademark sound. I love them still, and am sorry I can't get to Europe to catch one of these shows...for I fear they will never land on these shores as a performing group again.

I agree with everything except your very last statement.........They will be back in the U.S again...

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straycatuk

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dead.flowers

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corriecas
Keefs current guitar solos are like drips from Heaven.although some depressed people dont think so.
Jeroen
Guess im gonna go to jail for this remark

Well spoken, Jeroen. Let me just throw in my unprofessional remarks.

There's so much negative criticism around here. The band members look old. Mick's messing up a verses. Keith's playing out of key.

Well, but it makes me happy to hear and see them. It gives me goose bumps. It floods my body with happiness hormones. I'm still on a high from the Hamburg show. There's nothing like that in the world.

God bless.

d.f

AGREE 100% WITH BOTH. I'm signing off before I start swearing. We had a ball in Hamburg. Opening night after nearly a year off the road and no warm up gig. .....I'm out of here.
sc uk

Yes...Agree...Last show Vegas 10-22-2017...KICK ASS !!!!...Sounds to me like You Tube Critics ?????

My Last Show - Vegas 10-22-16...First Row Mezz Side Stage...got in for $0.00.
They were @#$%& great...Keith Kicked Ass...Sounded great...So if your insight is from You Tube it is way off base...I disagree...Over 50 shows since 75'...It is amazing that there still here doing it...Get to a show...Get Close and Enjoy Keith !!!

Keith inspired me to pick up a guitar 45 years ago. I love him as much
as any Stones fan. However, age has taken its toll on our idol. It is
a miracle he can still play anything at all with his arthritis. The big
bulging knuckles on his hands than form his chords must be painful and
difficult to play.Forming a simple bar chord with his knuckles the way
they appear can cause the sting above or below it to be muted.Here is
where Keith's playing has suffered the most.
Secondly, his memory is slipping. In Mexico City last year, he forgets
and struggles the intro on "Happy". It is painful to watch him trying
to figure out what to do.Very sad actually.
Adding Mick Taylor to the line up would would be a smart move at this
point in time. This is only a wish on my part as I do not want to see
my idol embarrass himself in the future.

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stone4ever

Its disrespectful to Keith and his followers but most of all its disrespectful to the Rolling Stones.

Jeez, @#$%& hell you a are a hypocrite.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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stone4ever

Its disrespectful to Keith and his followers but most of all its disrespectful to the Rolling Stones.

Jeez, @#$%& hell you a are a hypocrite.

- Doxa

AGREED ????????...@#$%& Idiots...