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I'm not so sure if he's playing half of what he normally did. If you compare with the studio version, perhaps. Here's a 2003-clip.
[www.youtube.com]
I agree about Bernard, he is a brilliant back up vocalist for Mick, no one better, but i don't like his voice on its own. It used to be nice though.
Good point. I've been wondering about the same, although Ronnie gets that grit on certain songs. It's like Keith wants to avoid distortion. Paradoxically, the distortion makes it way easier to play, as it disguises mistakes
The is Keith 2017 in a nutshell!
He cannot play JJF, Brown Sugar and his big signature songs amymore (well he tries to but its technically very poor).
Slipping Away is the perfect song for him - he rarely plays the guitar, adds notes here and here, the odd chord, and he adds to the show by singing ! He doesnt have to drive the entire song with constant chords (in tune), which i believe he is incapable of doing.
So...either they completely rearrange who plays what (which they wont because Keith must be the one playing the classic riffs), or we will be commenting on his poor playing throughout the tour. Thats reality.
I agree. He generally still sounds great on the Tele stuff.
"enjoying whatever's left now"
I think this is by far the best comment from the hundreds made about the first two shows. I was in Munich, and this is exactly what I feel. Bittersweet.
I know what you mean about the '89-90 sound overall, but the solos Keith played on Bitch, SFTD, Sad, Sad, Sad, IORR etc. were anything but clean or sterile.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 18:07 by StonedRambler.
Which brings up an idea that crosses my mind these days. Maybe they should stop doing vote songs. It probably results in them having to play numbers they are not as practiced on as the rest of the set. They've got a good setlist going, nicely shuffled from past tours. Just keep doing the same set and they'll get good on those songs the more the play. They basically had a static setlist back in 1981 and nobody griped. They seem too old to take chances on stage anymore, especially Keith.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Well spoken, Jeroen. Let me just throw in my unprofessional remarks.
There's so much negative criticism around here. The band members look old. Mick's messing up a verses. Keith's playing out of key.
Well, but it makes me happy to hear and see them. It gives me goose bumps. It floods my body with happiness hormones. I'm still on a high from the Hamburg show. There's nothing like that in the world.
God bless.
d.f
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Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 14, 2017 13:56
Quote
Anitapal82
Good example DP. Keith playing much less on songs than he used to. In the verses in the clip of SFM you posted he is playing half of what he normally did . One guitar slash now instead of more
I'm not so sure if he's playing half of what he normally did. If you compare with the studio version, perhaps. Here's a 2003-clip.
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: September 14, 2017 13:59
From what I have heard, yes he is struggling and slowing down, but within his limitations he is still a great player, doing his best and getting as much out of himself as he can.
Admire this while you can.
Admire this while you can.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
bart-man
()
Date: September 14, 2017 14:03
The Stones are famous for playing messy. Keith is Keith. He proved himself. He became a bit of a lazy guitarist. I just listend to BOB. Not the best version I ever heard but still better than most coverbands play this song 
I only didn't like Bernard his part. Bernard must know when he must chill
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 14:04 by bart-man.
I only didn't like Bernard his part. Bernard must know when he must chillEdited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 14:04 by bart-man.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: September 14, 2017 14:06
Quote
bart-man
The Stones are famous for playing messy. Keith is Keith. He proved himself. He became a bit of a lazy guitarist. I just listend to BOB. Not the best version I ever heard but still better than most coverbands play this song
I agree about Bernard, he is a brilliant back up vocalist for Mick, no one better, but i don't like his voice on its own. It used to be nice though.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: September 14, 2017 14:16
I actually preferred the way Keith played SFM the other night to how he did in 03'
Also Keith was way way to low down in the Mix in the Garden.
I think what disappoints now with Keith is not so much what he plays but how he plays it. He moves like an old man, but that is what he is. Why can't people take into account his age and give him a break. He cant move like he did in 03' but he still has something to offer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 14:19 by stone4ever.
Also Keith was way way to low down in the Mix in the Garden.
I think what disappoints now with Keith is not so much what he plays but how he plays it. He moves like an old man, but that is what he is. Why can't people take into account his age and give him a break. He cant move like he did in 03' but he still has something to offer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 14:19 by stone4ever.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
MelBelli
()
Date: September 14, 2017 14:38
Keith's playing is only a click below where he was in 2005-07. The difference now, to my ears, is the dryness and brittleness of the tone he's getting out of his Twins + Gibson (the 335s and the Junior). I'd wager that even the Robben Fords and Andy Timmonses and Larry Carltons of the world would find they're "fighting" the guitar to get the sound they want.
I realize that since the '12 reunion, both Ronnie and Keith have simplified their setups. I don't understand the choice. Don't these guitars sound more pleasant to your ears (https://youtu.be/_8O_-qtgFy8)? They both seem to be happy with it. Go figure.
I realize that since the '12 reunion, both Ronnie and Keith have simplified their setups. I don't understand the choice. Don't these guitars sound more pleasant to your ears (https://youtu.be/_8O_-qtgFy8)? They both seem to be happy with it. Go figure.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 14, 2017 14:40
Quote
MelBelli
Keith's playing is only a click below where he was in 2005-07. The difference now, to my ears, is the dryness and brittleness of the tone he's getting out of his Twins + Gibson (the 335s and the Junior). I'd wager that even the Robben Fords and Andy Timmonses and Larry Carltons of the world would find they're "fighting" the guitar to get the sound they want.
I realize that since the '12 reunion, both Ronnie and Keith have simplified their setups. I don't understand the choice. Don't these guitars sound more pleasant to your ears (https://youtu.be/_8O_-qtgFy8)? They both seem to be happy with it. Go figure.
Good point. I've been wondering about the same, although Ronnie gets that grit on certain songs. It's like Keith wants to avoid distortion. Paradoxically, the distortion makes it way easier to play, as it disguises mistakes
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
laertisflash
()
Date: September 14, 2017 14:50
Jlowe wrote: “Post 1973, Elvis was pretty much washed up, in the later years his concerts were embarrassing (The Stones are nowhere near that stage yet)”
I think the Stones will never be at that stage, because they will stop earlier. Due to their egos and to their pride. Of course Elvis is mentioned, today as huge legend, despite his embarrassing latest concerts. No one counts them, thinking about Elvis. But I think that the Stones want to avoid that “despite”… They are going on, for the time being, because they still can rock. For the time being.
Some people, especially on this board, claim that the Stones are already at the “emparrasing” stage. But Mick and Keith know that band’s reputation depends on the general impression, which remain very positive for them - and this impression is absolutely reasonable, IMO. That’s why the band is touring. But I feel that Mick and Keith know when exactly will be the time to say “goodbye”...
Until then, hope I have the opportunity to dance at the pace of JJF a few more times, into filled stadiums/Festival sites, seeing around people even 30 years younger than me.
I think the Stones will never be at that stage, because they will stop earlier. Due to their egos and to their pride. Of course Elvis is mentioned, today as huge legend, despite his embarrassing latest concerts. No one counts them, thinking about Elvis. But I think that the Stones want to avoid that “despite”… They are going on, for the time being, because they still can rock. For the time being.
Some people, especially on this board, claim that the Stones are already at the “emparrasing” stage. But Mick and Keith know that band’s reputation depends on the general impression, which remain very positive for them - and this impression is absolutely reasonable, IMO. That’s why the band is touring. But I feel that Mick and Keith know when exactly will be the time to say “goodbye”...
Until then, hope I have the opportunity to dance at the pace of JJF a few more times, into filled stadiums/Festival sites, seeing around people even 30 years younger than me.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
MelBelli
()
Date: September 14, 2017 14:51
The natural distortion he *is* getting from the Twin breaking up sounds awful to me. It would sound awful from any guitarist. That's just a personal preference. But, again, he doesn't seem to mind. ... Ronnie has a little bit of finger-speed left (although himself quite diminished compared to his mid-70s peak), so he will sound smoother than Keith, relatively speaking. But I think he too would benefit from some delay, at the very least. The techs give him overdrive for solos, but whatever effect they're using is a lot more ratty than what he's used in the past. Compare how much fuller his solos sounded on, say, Start Me Up and Rock and a Hard Place, in '89. It's not so much his technique as it is the Man Behind the Curtain giving him a better, more usable tone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 14:52 by MelBelli.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 14:52 by MelBelli.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
jonnylamar
()
Date: September 14, 2017 14:58
I feel this is a momentous day. I agree with the opening statement. It will not take from his legacy but I agree it is time to stop. We are all fans here.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Anitapal82
()
Date: September 14, 2017 15:03
Good point Jonnylamar his legacy and the songs are with us forever
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 14, 2017 15:13
Some people (Even Dean Goodman) said that Keith turned up and added nothing to the show.
Well, that's their opinion. Who am I to argue with that?
For me, this was (surprisingly, I must add) one of the highlights of the Hamburg-show:
[www.youtube.com]
Well, that's their opinion. Who am I to argue with that?
For me, this was (surprisingly, I must add) one of the highlights of the Hamburg-show:
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
windmelody
()
Date: September 14, 2017 15:13
The Stones still managage to celebrate with the audience, yet the guitarplaying of KR has become a problem. The Stones never were virtuosos, but to me KR was one of the great rock'n'roll guitarplayers.Saying that he never played any differently to now is extremely insulting.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 16:24 by windmelody.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 16:24 by windmelody.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: September 14, 2017 15:37
you know, its possible to make the case that what Keith plays actually enhances the songs, because its honest, and it has to be him to be the Stones.
He wrote these songs. I watched the 'Beast of Burden' from Munich, it seemed that yes he was bewildered by the intro..but it also is possible he was expecting a different guitar than the one handed to him..
many aspects of performing other than musical logistics affect performance.
He wrote these songs. I watched the 'Beast of Burden' from Munich, it seemed that yes he was bewildered by the intro..but it also is possible he was expecting a different guitar than the one handed to him..
many aspects of performing other than musical logistics affect performance.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Eleanor Rigby
()
Date: September 14, 2017 15:48
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Some people (Even Dean Goodman) said that Keith turned up and added nothing to the show.
Well, that's their opinion. Who am I to argue with that?
For me, this was (surprisingly, I must add) one of the highlights of the Hamburg-show:
[www.youtube.com]
The is Keith 2017 in a nutshell!
He cannot play JJF, Brown Sugar and his big signature songs amymore (well he tries to but its technically very poor).
Slipping Away is the perfect song for him - he rarely plays the guitar, adds notes here and here, the odd chord, and he adds to the show by singing ! He doesnt have to drive the entire song with constant chords (in tune), which i believe he is incapable of doing.
So...either they completely rearrange who plays what (which they wont because Keith must be the one playing the classic riffs), or we will be commenting on his poor playing throughout the tour. Thats reality.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: September 14, 2017 15:52
Quote
Mathijs
Keith's playing is not much worse than since the last couple of years. My main problem with the last two shows is the speed. Everything is played soooooo sloooooowww.....man, Miss You almost topples over at 23 BPM....
Mathijs
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: September 14, 2017 15:57
I was just thinking in light of the post saying keith cant play JJF any more would it be better for Keith to do solo shows after these dates. If all he does is piss Stones fans off should he do his ballads and his old standards and just enjoy himself.
Also if Mick and Keith can't get on enough to finish the Stones album would it not be better that we get Mick and Keith making solo albums.
This is a clip with Keith playing JJF and its awesome.
[www.youtube.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 16:10 by stone4ever.
Also if Mick and Keith can't get on enough to finish the Stones album would it not be better that we get Mick and Keith making solo albums.
This is a clip with Keith playing JJF and its awesome.
[www.youtube.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 16:10 by stone4ever.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: September 14, 2017 16:02
I'm out of here before i say something i will regret.
See you in Paris.
See you in Paris.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
MelBelli
()
Date: September 14, 2017 16:31
I agree. He generally still sounds great on the Tele stuff.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
laertisflash
()
Date: September 14, 2017 16:53
Keith sounds great on JJF always (or almost).
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: September 14, 2017 17:03
Nobody wants to say what rhymes with tux.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: September 14, 2017 17:31
I guess it's just perspective. I haven't attended a show since 2002 and likely won't, but I watch every official concert release and check out a lot of what gets posted to Youtube. What amazes me now and has for years is how good they are enough of the time for men their ages and in their shape. I think they're amazing. I don't go to it expecting to hear them like they were 40 or 50 years ago. The very notion seems ridiculous to me. I understand thinking it's overpriced entertainment. No one forces anyone to go. You can sit at home and still see them in concert one way or another. The extremes that some people react to them makes me think they either don't grasp their ages and condition or they probably have a problem around old people in real life as well. Yes, they move slowly. It takes a long time to tell a story. They lose their train of thought. They smell sometimes or have difficulty doing things younger, healthier people can do. It's part of life. We start out helpless and some of us live long enough to become helpless again. If you don't want to see an old entertainer, then stay away. The same applied to Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, or Frank Sinatra, Jerry Lewis, and the rest of their generation of entertainers. People get old and it shows on their faces and how they move and think. It's a fact.
Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by:
MartinB
()
Date: September 14, 2017 17:32
Quote
Hairball
"Arthritis or age or hitting his head".
A combination of all of the above.
It used to be his gnarled fingers caused worry amongst fans, then hitting his head was a major scare (which he still takes medication for), and now the fact that he's a ripe old 73+.
Put them all together, and it is what it is. I suggest enjoying whatever's left now, because none of the above will reverse themselves.
"enjoying whatever's left now"
I think this is by far the best comment from the hundreds made about the first two shows. I was in Munich, and this is exactly what I feel. Bittersweet.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
StonedRambler
()
Date: September 14, 2017 17:53
I was in Hamburg and in Munich. In Munich he played as good as he can get since 2012. Really, there's have been shows in recent years where he played much worse. There have been only two major moments when he played wrong notes, and that is not much if you ask me. After Hamburg I was also really worried since he messed up so much, but it was probably his opening night nervousness plus he did not play much for about a year and it was cold. Yes, it is true that Keith does not play as good as in the past - his playing deteriorated around 1994 and again around 2005. But that is nothing new and so this thread does not reveal anything new...
With Keiths current guitar sound - that is really just a thing of taste. I think that this is his best live guitar sound ever, others prefer the 1989 tour which sounded to clean and sterile to me.
With Keiths current guitar sound - that is really just a thing of taste. I think that this is his best live guitar sound ever, others prefer the 1989 tour which sounded to clean and sterile to me.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
MelBelli
()
Date: September 14, 2017 17:58
Quote
StonedRambler
With Keiths current guitar sound - that is really just a thing of taste. I think that this is his best live guitar sound ever, others prefer the 1989 tour which sounded to clean and sterile to me.
I know what you mean about the '89-90 sound overall, but the solos Keith played on Bitch, SFTD, Sad, Sad, Sad, IORR etc. were anything but clean or sterile.
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: September 14, 2017 18:04
Keefs current guitar solos are like drips from Heaven.although some depressed people dont think so.
Jeroen
Guess im gonna go to jail for this remark
Jeroen
Guess im gonna go to jail for this remark
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
StonedRambler
()
Date: September 14, 2017 18:06
The were distorted, but to me that distortion sounded too smooth and too dark with no edge to it.Quote
MelBelliQuote
StonedRambler
With Keiths current guitar sound - that is really just a thing of taste. I think that this is his best live guitar sound ever, others prefer the 1989 tour which sounded to clean and sterile to me.
I know what you mean about the '89-90 sound overall, but the solos Keith played on Bitch, SFTD, Sad, Sad, Sad, IORR etc. were anything but clean or sterile.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 18:07 by StonedRambler.
Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: September 14, 2017 18:25
Quote
markoQuote
ouroux58Quote
Anitapal82
I think if they still wanna play,they should forget masses,and play 80min sets in theatres,few rocking numbers and acoustic set including mostly mid/half tempo songs,
Mick's not gonna hang around Keith unless there's money to be made, most likely
Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: September 14, 2017 18:31
Quote
jumpingjackflash5Quote
Anitapal82
last shows beast of burden are clear evidence.
BTW Beast of Burden was vote song - that means greater chance for imperfection generally.
Which brings up an idea that crosses my mind these days. Maybe they should stop doing vote songs. It probably results in them having to play numbers they are not as practiced on as the rest of the set. They've got a good setlist going, nicely shuffled from past tours. Just keep doing the same set and they'll get good on those songs the more the play. They basically had a static setlist back in 1981 and nobody griped. They seem too old to take chances on stage anymore, especially Keith.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by:
dead.flowers
()
Date: September 14, 2017 18:37
Quote
corriecas
Keefs current guitar solos are like drips from Heaven.although some depressed people dont think so.
Jeroen
Guess im gonna go to jail for this remark
Well spoken, Jeroen. Let me just throw in my unprofessional remarks.
There's so much negative criticism around here. The band members look old. Mick's messing up a verses. Keith's playing out of key.
Well, but it makes me happy to hear and see them. It gives me goose bumps. It floods my body with happiness hormones. I'm still on a high from the Hamburg show. There's nothing like that in the world.
God bless.
d.f
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