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TheflyingDutchman

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Rocky Dijon
Hmmm. How does Ronnie then rate songwriting credit on "Everything is Turning to Gold," "Dance," "If I Was a Dancer," "Black Limousine," "No Use in Crying," "Pretty Beat Up," "One Hit to the Body," "Fight," "Dirty Work," "Had It With You," and "When You're Gone" if his agreement forgoes credit? I can understand that explanation for his inspirational credit on "It's Only Rock 'n' Roll" and "Hey, Negrita" or Mick's inspirational credit on Ronnie's "I Can Feel the Fire" and "Red Eyes." Maybe that is the key since "Red Eyes" is a Ronnie Wood composition with inspiration by Jagger and the same tune became "When You're Gone" which is a Jagger/Richards/Wood composition. Another question is how Nanker/Phelge tunes became Jagger/Richards tunes in later years. Were the other participants or their Estates bought out?

You can always ask the Lawyer.

Ronnie hired himself, it seems..

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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Rocky Dijon
Hmmm. How does Ronnie then rate songwriting credit on "Everything is Turning to Gold," "Dance," "If I Was a Dancer," "Black Limousine," "No Use in Crying," "Pretty Beat Up," "One Hit to the Body," "Fight," "Dirty Work," "Had It With You," and "When You're Gone" if his agreement forgoes credit? I can understand that explanation for his inspirational credit on "It's Only Rock 'n' Roll" and "Hey, Negrita" or Mick's inspirational credit on Ronnie's "I Can Feel the Fire" and "Red Eyes." Maybe that is the key since "Red Eyes" is a Ronnie Wood composition with inspiration by Jagger and the same tune became "When You're Gone" which is a Jagger/Richards/Wood composition. Another question is how Nanker/Phelge tunes became Jagger/Richards tunes in later years. Were the other participants or their Estates bought out?

You can always ask the Lawyer.

Ronnie hired himself, it seems..

He's not the only one, with mixed emotions.

Nah, I've been told more than once to mind my own business when I have questions like that. I limit myself to message boards where the worst that happens is I have an occasional temper tantrum and take my toys inside.

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Rocky Dijon
Hmmm. How does Ronnie then rate songwriting credit on "Everything is Turning to Gold," "Dance," "If I Was a Dancer," "Black Limousine," "No Use in Crying," "Pretty Beat Up," "One Hit to the Body," "Fight," "Dirty Work," "Had It With You," and "When You're Gone" if his agreement forgoes credit? I can understand that explanation for his inspirational credit on "It's Only Rock 'n' Roll" and "Hey, Negrita" or Mick's inspirational credit on Ronnie's "I Can Feel the Fire" and "Red Eyes." Maybe that is the key since "Red Eyes" is a Ronnie Wood composition with inspiration by Jagger and the same tune became "When You're Gone" which is a Jagger/Richards/Wood composition. Another question is how Nanker/Phelge tunes became Jagger/Richards tunes in later years. Were the other participants or their Estates bought out?

I wouldn't take that "lawyerly" advice all that literally.

After all, how long has it been since this was true:

With the Stones, it’s more Keith and Mick hanging out writing the songs, and bringing the mostly-complete works to the band.

I am intrigued by this "fee" that is paid to Charlie and Ron, though. Is that really a thing?

And have all the Nanker/Phelge songs become Jagger/Richards tunes?

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LongBeachArena72

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Rocky Dijon
Hmmm. How does Ronnie then rate songwriting credit on "Everything is Turning to Gold," "Dance," "If I Was a Dancer," "Black Limousine," "No Use in Crying," "Pretty Beat Up," "One Hit to the Body," "Fight," "Dirty Work," "Had It With You," and "When You're Gone" if his agreement forgoes credit? I can understand that explanation for his inspirational credit on "It's Only Rock 'n' Roll" and "Hey, Negrita" or Mick's inspirational credit on Ronnie's "I Can Feel the Fire" and "Red Eyes." Maybe that is the key since "Red Eyes" is a Ronnie Wood composition with inspiration by Jagger and the same tune became "When You're Gone" which is a Jagger/Richards/Wood composition. Another question is how Nanker/Phelge tunes became Jagger/Richards tunes in later years. Were the other participants or their Estates bought out?

I wouldn't take that "lawyerly" advice all that literally.



After all, how long has it been since this was true:

With the Stones, it’s more Keith and Mick hanging out writing the songs, and bringing the mostly-complete works to the band.

I am intrigued by this "fee" that is paid to Charlie and Ron, though. Is that really a thing?


And have all the Nanker/Phelge songs become Jagger/Richards tunes?

By posting that link I'm only trying to emphasise that all the band members had their role in creating songs. I cannot imagine that Richards or Jagger always came up with an entire score as they cannot write or read a note as big as a cow. They provided the lyrics or some chord progression, but unlike Bob Dylan's solo recordings, all the Stones members (Watts, Wyman Taylor Wood) added their signature sound and thus together created the song.. You cannot take that away from them unless you're calld Mick Jagger or Keith Richards i.e. being an über Keith or Mick fan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-19 23:35 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman
they cannot write or read a note as big as a cow

This is now my favorite thing ever on iorr.

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LongBeachArena72

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TheflyingDutchman
they cannot write or read a note as big as a cow

This is now my favorite thing ever on iorr.

Lol

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Rocky Dijon
Hmmm. How does Ronnie then rate songwriting credit on "Everything is Turning to Gold," "Dance," "If I Was a Dancer," "Black Limousine," "No Use in Crying," "Pretty Beat Up," "One Hit to the Body," "Fight," "Dirty Work," "Had It With You," and "When You're Gone" if his agreement forgoes credit? I can understand that explanation for his inspirational credit on "It's Only Rock 'n' Roll" and "Hey, Negrita" or Mick's inspirational credit on Ronnie's "I Can Feel the Fire" and "Red Eyes." Maybe that is the key since "Red Eyes" is a Ronnie Wood composition with inspiration by Jagger and the same tune became "When You're Gone" which is a Jagger/Richards/Wood composition. Another question is how Nanker/Phelge tunes became Jagger/Richards tunes in later years. Were the other participants or their Estates bought out?

I have a feeling that in this particular case it came down to the specific individuals, and probably the era in took place in. Ronnie is held high in regard by both Mick and Keith. They decided to throw him a bone. I bet, had it been Taylor e.g. he would not have gotten a credit. Also - had J/R been in a rotten mood that day, I bet we could have just as well got "Everything Turning to Gold" with a straight J/R credit.
The post by Flying Dutchman above says much what I said: there is no right way. Certain patterns have emerged. The REM/Peppers/U2 way is probably a very fair way to do this.especially in these bands - they are all 4 piece bands with a lead singer. So chances are there is much jamming, and writing together. It is a certain art to get a 3 piece to sound big and right and complete.
I do like this one little point made in FDutchman's post: that the Stones/Neil Young method is all fine and dandy - just pray that those songwriting juices don't dry up.
Otherwise - "In Another Land Suite Pts 1-5" anyone?

As far as Nanker Phelge credits go, I think it is "Play with Fire" and "The Spider and the Fly" on FLASHPOINT and STRIPPED, respectively (or related CD singles) and separately, it was credited on reissues of "I'm All Right" and "Off the Hook."

"Don't you ever call me my drummer again, you're my @#$%& singer"

Charlie Watts.

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LongBeachArena72
Some examples:

1) Summer, 1977. Hansa by the Wall, Berlin. David Bowie walks in with most of "Joe the Lion." What he doesn't have is the bridge that begins at 1:20. I give him that bridge. Have I helped write a song?

Yes.

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GasLightStreet

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LongBeachArena72
Some examples:

1) Summer, 1977. Hansa by the Wall, Berlin. David Bowie walks in with most of "Joe the Lion." What he doesn't have is the bridge that begins at 1:20. I give him that bridge. Have I helped write a song?

Yes.

Sweet. I'll apply to the Bowie estate for my long-overdue credit. Like that dude from Procul Harum, though, I'm sure I'll get stiffed.

You've read about Keith or Mick saying
K - What you got?
M - I've got this verse and a chorus but...
K - Ahhhh, a bridge. I just happen to have one.

BOOM. Songwriting.

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GasLightStreet
You've read about Keith or Mick saying
K - What you got?
M - I've got this verse and a chorus but...
K - Ahhhh, a bridge. I just happen to have one.

BOOM. Songwriting.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy