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Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: alexander paul ()
Date: December 3, 2017 12:37

Is there any complete set of BBC Radio recordings?
We have the familiar bootlegs, as Beat Beat Beat at the Beeb and Teague Raws Baby See Sessions.

But it seems a few extra tracks can be found on the bootlegs Another Time Another Place disc 5: Not fade away of The Joe Loss Show, April 10 1964. And also It's all over now (in the past sometimes called a rehearsal) on The Lost Treasure, of Top Gear of July 23. The On Air track Ain't that loving you baby seems to be also from this show. (Cf. Nico Zentgraf.)

Are there any more radio tracks to be found elsewhere?

Alex.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: December 3, 2017 16:07

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Is the official album really necessary? ...

No, nothing is really "necessary".

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
... What I read somewhere far doesn't sound very promising...

Okay ... so don't buy it.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Monsoon Ragoon ()
Date: December 3, 2017 16:19

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Is the official album really necessary? ...

No, nothing is really "necessary".

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
... What I read somewhere far doesn't sound very promising...

Okay ... so don't buy it.

I don't need such idiotic comments, please.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-03 16:20 by Monsoon Ragoon.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: corriecas ()
Date: December 3, 2017 16:25

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Is the official album really necessary? ...

No, nothing is really "necessary".

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
... What I read somewhere far doesn't sound very promising...

Okay ... so don't buy it.

I don't need such idiotic comments, please.

maybe you need to adjust your negative comments Monsoon..
Jeroen

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: alexander paul ()
Date: December 3, 2017 17:28

Quote
alexander paul
Is there any complete set of BBC Radio recordings?
We have the familiar bootlegs, as Beat Beat Beat at the Beeb and Teague Raws Baby See Sessions.

But it seems a few extra tracks can be found on the bootlegs Another Time Another Place disc 5: Not fade away of The Joe Loss Show, April 10 1964. And also It's all over now (in the past sometimes called a rehearsal) on The Lost Treasure, of Top Gear of July 23. The On Air track Ain't that loving you baby seems to be also from this show. (Cf. Nico Zentgraf.)

Are there any more radio tracks to be found elsewhere?

Alex.

I like to add another problem. The wellknown bootlegs of BBC-recordings contain two live tracks Roll over Beethoven and Beautiful Delilah supposedly from a tour and broadcasted March 8 1964 in Saturday Club. But March 8 was not a Saturday, but a Sunday. These recordings (even as bad as they are) don't sound as recordings in a radio-studio. Where can come from?

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: December 3, 2017 17:28

Quote
corriecas
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Is the official album really necessary? ...

No, nothing is really "necessary".

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
... What I read somewhere far doesn't sound very promising...

Okay ... so don't buy it.

I don't need such idiotic comments, please.

maybe you need to adjust your negative comments Monsoon..
Jeroen

Why should he do so? It's his opinion, and as such it is every bit as valid as positive "happy" comments from others. The fact that some people can't live with the fact that there are different opinions is their problem, not his.

It all depends from where you come from. I for one love the music on On Air, always did, and I'ven listened to stuff like Cops And Robbers and Roll Over Beethoven quite regularly, not just "the last time 25 years ago" like some. For some of the lesser sounding BBC tracks there was always hope on my side that better quality versions may exist somewhere, in the BBC's or band's offficial or band members private vaults, so I have always dreamt about some serious sound upgrades once the BBC material would get an official release. On Air finally destroyed my hopes, so yes, in a way, I'm a bit disappointed that for this official release, they had to rely heavily on the circulating bootlegs. And not always on the best ones, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread with the Beautiful Delilah example where the tape glitch at the very start could have been easily repaired. If the bootleggers could do it on later releases, there's no reason the Stones could not do it for an official release. And there's more: The (tape? mastering?) defect at 2:46 in The Last Time for example. Just minor details? OK, then I'll spoil the fun no further.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-03 18:45 by retired_dog.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: December 3, 2017 17:33

Quote
alexander paul
Quote
alexander paul
Is there any complete set of BBC Radio recordings?
We have the familiar bootlegs, as Beat Beat Beat at the Beeb and Teague Raws Baby See Sessions.

But it seems a few extra tracks can be found on the bootlegs Another Time Another Place disc 5: Not fade away of The Joe Loss Show, April 10 1964. And also It's all over now (in the past sometimes called a rehearsal) on The Lost Treasure, of Top Gear of July 23. The On Air track Ain't that loving you baby seems to be also from this show. (Cf. Nico Zentgraf.)

Are there any more radio tracks to be found elsewhere?

Alex.

I like to add another problem. The wellknown bootlegs of BBC-recordings contain two live tracks Roll over Beethoven and Beautiful Delilah supposedly from a tour and broadcasted March 8 1964 in Saturday Club. But March 8 was not a Saturday, but a Sunday. These recordings (even as bad as they are) don't sound as recordings in a radio-studio. Where can come from?

I always thought that the live audience noises were overdubbed and that these two were no "real" 1964 UK tour recordings, but of course I could be wrong. It's not easy to tell from the very bad sounding recordings.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: corriecas ()
Date: December 3, 2017 17:45

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
corriecas
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Is the official album really necessary? ...

No, nothing is really "necessary".

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
... What I read somewhere far doesn't sound very promising...

Okay ... so don't buy it.

I don't need such idiotic comments, please.

maybe you need to adjust your negative comments Monsoon..
Jeroen

Why should he do so? It's his opinion, and as such it is every bit as valid as positive "happy" comments from others. The fact that some people can't live with the fact that there are different opinions is their problem, not his.

It all depends from where you come from. I for one love the music on On Air, always did, and I'ven listened to stuff like Cops And Robbers and Roll Over Beethoven quite regularly, not just "the last time 25 years ago" like some. For some of the lesser sounding BBC tracks there was always hope on my side that better quality versions may exist somewhere, in the BBC's or band's offficial or band members private vaults, so I have always dreamt about some serious sound upgrades once the BBC material would get an official release. On Air finally destroyed my hopes, so yes, in a way, I'm a bit disappointed that for this official release, they had to rely heavily on the circulating bootlegs. And not always for the best ones, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread with the Beautiful Delilah example where the tape glitch at the very start could have been easily repaired. If the bootleggers could do it on later releases, there's no reason the Stones could not do it for an official release. And there's more: The (tape? mastering?) defect at 2:46 in The Last Time for example. Just minor details? OK, then I'll spoil the fun no further.

Ofcourse he is entitled to his opinion. But...someone else is entitled to react to that. Thats what happened. i just mentioned what had happened. Monsoon can say what he wants. Its not that negative comments cant be said, but its in what manner.
Jeroen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-03 17:45 by corriecas.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Monsoon Ragoon ()
Date: December 3, 2017 17:57

Quote
corriecas
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
corriecas
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Is the official album really necessary? ...

No, nothing is really "necessary".

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
... What I read somewhere far doesn't sound very promising...

Okay ... so don't buy it.

I don't need such idiotic comments, please.

maybe you need to adjust your negative comments Monsoon..
Jeroen

Why should he do so? It's his opinion, and as such it is every bit as valid as positive "happy" comments from others. The fact that some people can't live with the fact that there are different opinions is their problem, not his.

It all depends from where you come from. I for one love the music on On Air, always did, and I'ven listened to stuff like Cops And Robbers and Roll Over Beethoven quite regularly, not just "the last time 25 years ago" like some. For some of the lesser sounding BBC tracks there was always hope on my side that better quality versions may exist somewhere, in the BBC's or band's offficial or band members private vaults, so I have always dreamt about some serious sound upgrades once the BBC material would get an official release. On Air finally destroyed my hopes, so yes, in a way, I'm a bit disappointed that for this official release, they had to rely heavily on the circulating bootlegs. And not always for the best ones, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread with the Beautiful Delilah example where the tape glitch at the very start could have been easily repaired. If the bootleggers could do it on later releases, there's no reason the Stones could not do it for an official release. And there's more: The (tape? mastering?) defect at 2:46 in The Last Time for example. Just minor details? OK, then I'll spoil the fun no further.

Ofcourse he is entitled to his opinion. But...someone else is entitled to react to that. Thats what happened. i just mentioned what had happened. Monsoon can say what he wants. Its not that negative comments cant be said, but its in what manner.
Jeroen

LeonidP tries to make a fool of me and I think that’s not fair. Yes, I am a very critical fan, that's what fans should be IMO. We have enough people here who defend any shit the Stones are doing, releasing or not doing. Who declare every show to the best show of all times (with 90% the same songs in every concert, most of them pre 1981!). Also most official releases are not perfect IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if the DAC release of the BBC tapes is more usefull than the official version.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: barbabang ()
Date: December 3, 2017 18:30

I have not bought it yet, nor listened to this latest release, but I am perfectly happy in reading the pros and cons in this topic about this release. Very informative.
Wether you think it is great sounding or not, or that there is a bad edit in a song or that it is a bad or good pressing from GZ pressing plant in Czech Republic.Or that the cd booklet is informative or has mistakes. All good to read.

Don't know what is so offensive about Monsoon Ragoon's opinions, but I like to read them too.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Date: December 3, 2017 18:58

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
corriecas
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
corriecas
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Is the official album really necessary? ...

No, nothing is really "necessary".

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
... What I read somewhere far doesn't sound very promising...

Okay ... so don't buy it.

I don't need such idiotic comments, please.

maybe you need to adjust your negative comments Monsoon..
Jeroen

Why should he do so? It's his opinion, and as such it is every bit as valid as positive "happy" comments from others. The fact that some people can't live with the fact that there are different opinions is their problem, not his.

It all depends from where you come from. I for one love the music on On Air, always did, and I'ven listened to stuff like Cops And Robbers and Roll Over Beethoven quite regularly, not just "the last time 25 years ago" like some. For some of the lesser sounding BBC tracks there was always hope on my side that better quality versions may exist somewhere, in the BBC's or band's offficial or band members private vaults, so I have always dreamt about some serious sound upgrades once the BBC material would get an official release. On Air finally destroyed my hopes, so yes, in a way, I'm a bit disappointed that for this official release, they had to rely heavily on the circulating bootlegs. And not always for the best ones, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread with the Beautiful Delilah example where the tape glitch at the very start could have been easily repaired. If the bootleggers could do it on later releases, there's no reason the Stones could not do it for an official release. And there's more: The (tape? mastering?) defect at 2:46 in The Last Time for example. Just minor details? OK, then I'll spoil the fun no further.

Ofcourse he is entitled to his opinion. But...someone else is entitled to react to that. Thats what happened. i just mentioned what had happened. Monsoon can say what he wants. Its not that negative comments cant be said, but its in what manner.
Jeroen

LeonidP tries to make a fool of me and I think that’s not fair. Yes, I am a very critical fan, that's what fans should be IMO. We have enough people here who defend any shit the Stones are doing, releasing or not doing. Who declare every show to the best show of all times (with 90% the same songs in every concert, most of them pre 1981!). Also most official releases are not perfect IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if the DAC release of the BBC tapes is more usefull than the official version.

What is it that you have heard so far that didn't sound promising, then?

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Monsoon Ragoon ()
Date: December 3, 2017 19:05

Things like "sounds different but not necessarily better". The sound should be indeed better than on the best underground release, because the official release also lacks completeness and a track order that makes sense historically.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-03 19:47 by Monsoon Ragoon.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 3, 2017 19:46

For apprx. a measly $13 US dollars for the two cd set , I really couldn't complain even if I hated it.
I pre-ordered via Amazon for $19 and they dropped the price quite a bit based on their pre-order price guarantee - very kind of them.
Having only been though cd 1 so far (cd 2 today), it's already been worth every cent and more...in fact way more even though I've had it all.
As mentioned, nice to have a spiffy new official release all tidied up, and while there are some minor issues (track order, etc), nothing that would make me regret buying it.
My only real complaint is the yellow cover ( a very minor personal issue) - not a fan of bright yellow. Might have been cooler with a vintage look - similar to what the Beatles did for their BBC releases.
But if that's my only complaint, life is good with the Rolling Stones on Air. Hopefully it sells well, which might encourage them to dig deeper and release stuff that's more obscure.

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Monsoon Ragoon ()
Date: December 3, 2017 20:04

The normal price over here is ca. 21 Euro for the 2cd edition - that's by far more than $ 13. And you're right, the cover is horrible. Might be that it's a usefull release eventually. But it would be still interesting to compare it with the best bootlegs from DAC and Godfather.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 3, 2017 20:30

Yeah that is a bit steep in comparison- maybe the prices will drop. On Air Deluxe till listed at $13.98 on Amazon US.
And for the record, my post above wasn't necessarily directed at you, I was just giving my perspective in general.

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Yes, I am a very critical fan, that's what fans should be IMO. We have enough people here who defend any shit the Stones are doing, releasing or not doing. Who declare every show to the best show of all times (with 90% the same songs in every concert, most of them pre 1981!).

I hear you, and from one critical fan to another, I don't think you would feel letdown with this, but there's probably other better alternatives that could fill the void at a better price?

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: marcovandereijk ()
Date: December 3, 2017 20:34

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
And you're right, the cover is horrible.

At least they did not photoshop one band member out.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Date: December 3, 2017 22:53

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Things like "sounds different but not necessarily better". The sound should be indeed better than on the best underground release, because the official release also lacks completeness and a track order that makes sense historically.

It sounds better, in terms of mastering and more bottom in the sound, imo.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: ash ()
Date: December 3, 2017 23:00

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
alexander paul
Quote
alexander paul
Is there any complete set of BBC Radio recordings?
We have the familiar bootlegs, as Beat Beat Beat at the Beeb and Teague Raws Baby See Sessions.

But it seems a few extra tracks can be found on the bootlegs Another Time Another Place disc 5: Not fade away of The Joe Loss Show, April 10 1964. And also It's all over now (in the past sometimes called a rehearsal) on The Lost Treasure, of Top Gear of July 23. The On Air track Ain't that loving you baby seems to be also from this show. (Cf. Nico Zentgraf.)

Are there any more radio tracks to be found elsewhere?

Alex.

I like to add another problem. The wellknown bootlegs of BBC-recordings contain two live tracks Roll over Beethoven and Beautiful Delilah supposedly from a tour and broadcasted March 8 1964 in Saturday Club. But March 8 was not a Saturday, but a Sunday. These recordings (even as bad as they are) don't sound as recordings in a radio-studio. Where can come from?

I always thought that the live audience noises were overdubbed and that these two were no "real" 1964 UK tour recordings, but of course I could be wrong. It's not easy to tell from the very bad sounding recordings.

Roll Over Beethoven is from 24 January 1964 Go Man Go (BBC radio) and Beautiful Delilah is from the April 27th 1964 Top Beat (BBC radio). Both shows were performed in front of a live audience (Go Man Go was essentially the forerunner of The Joe Loss Pop Show (minus Loss) which replaced it), the ambience matches similar known recordings at the same venue and track lengths make these identifications plausible and probable. I'm 99.9% confident that's right.
There are no other tv / radio or other recordings we know about for sure that they could be from. They are most definitely not from an edition of Saturday Club. I have seen the pasb's (performance logs) for every edition of Saturday Club from 1958 to 67 and probably nearly every other pop session based BBC show for the same period and there's no contract or paperwork for any recordings outside of those we already knew about for the Stones.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: LiveAtHidepark ()
Date: December 4, 2017 00:04

Quote
ash

Roll Over Beethoven is from 24 January 1964 Go Man Go (BBC radio) and Beautiful Delilah is from the April 27th 1964 Top Beat (BBC radio).

That's exactly what Felix Aeppli wrote on his 2017-10-24 update.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 4, 2017 00:28

Just finished cd 2, and can only say this is all such a treat. Puts things back in perspective, considering it was all recorded in the first two years of my life.
And even though it's all 50+ years old, it's like a breath of fresh air (even though I've had it all on boots, etc.). Even tempted to get the vinyl - listed at $28.99 on Amazon US - but will wait for price to drop a bit.
I said a few years ago the Stones future lies in it's past with these archive releases (B&L blues covers aside which is sort of living in the past anyways), and for me this is what it's become. Don't have the dying urge to see them live anymore for a variety of reasons, and still look forward to the supposed new album (if it ever happens), but they have so many buried treasures that are even more obscure than all of this BBC release, they could release things from this point forward for decades and I'd be satisfied.

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: December 4, 2017 01:52

I’m a little slow on the Come On
On Air purchase
dipped a toe with ‘Everybody Needs Somebody To Love’ for a dollar twentynine
complete the transfer of all $15 more
so now I am a complete owner of designated air On Air with The Rolling Stones
meet you in the clouds
i’s or yours
forever more
excellent tunes

ETA just these versions of ‘Last Time’ and ‘It’s All Over Now’ make it worth it—-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-04 02:03 by 35love.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: December 4, 2017 02:07

Quote
Hairball
I said a few years ago the Stones future lies in it's past with these archive releases (B&L blues covers aside which is sort of living in the past anyways), and for me this is what it's become. Don't have the dying urge to see them live anymore for a variety of reasons, and still look forward to the supposed new album (if it ever happens), but they have so many buried treasures that are even more obscure than all of this BBC release, they could release things from this point forward for decades and I'd be satisfied.

Yep. Same here. My thoughts exactly.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: December 4, 2017 02:16

Oh wowww
2120 South Michigan Avenue
no vocals all harmonica love this tune

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: December 4, 2017 02:47

Gosh they were young I looked up
‘Walking The Dog’
to see what risqué metaphor it must be, no
“The lyrics make references to children's nursery rhymes, especially Miss Mary Mack.”

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 4, 2017 04:42

While the Stones version is my favorite cover of Walking the Dog, Aerosmith did a decent version as well, but the original Stax version from Rufus Thomas is the real deal imo.
As for any risque' metaphor....

I did find this:

Dogs in Metaphor
walk the dog. (sex) 1. Have sex. 2. Masturbate.

"In his hit record of the same name Rufus Thomas promises us that “If you don't know how to do it, I can show you how to walk the dog.” His 1965 performance on American Band Stand is punctuated by whistles and yips. For all the innuendo, this enduring classic (covered by The Who, Aerosmith, and The Rolling Stones among others) provides no specifics".

So...I guess it's all in the mind of the beholder as to whether there's any risque' innuendo or not.

Here's Rufus with a live '65 performance - I think this is from Ready Steady Go?

RUFUS THOMAS - Walking the Dog (1965)




.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: December 4, 2017 04:48

Quote
Hairball
While the Stones version is my favorite cover of Walking the Dog, Aerosmith did a decent version as well, but the original Stax version from Rufus Thomas is the real deal imo.
As for any risque' metaphor....

I did find this:

Dogs in Metaphor
walk the dog. (sex) 1. Have sex. 2. Masturbate.

"In his hit record of the same name Rufus Thomas promises us that “If you don't know how to do it, I can show you how to walk the dog.” His 1965 performance on American Band Stand is punctuated by whistles and yips. For all the innuendo, this enduring classic (covered by The Who, Aerosmith, and The Rolling Stones among others) provides no specifics".

So...I guess it's all in the mind of the beholder as to whether there's any risque' innuendo or not.

Here's Rufus with a live '65 performance - I think this is from Ready Steady Go?

RUFUS THOMAS - Walking the Dog (1965)


thumbs up

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: vox12string ()
Date: December 4, 2017 05:27

From the same show - Rufus Thomas - Jump Back
[www.youtube.com]

Just a smidgen of Cathy McGowan, the RSG presenter at the end....I was 15 years old....

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 4, 2017 05:37

Quote
vox12string
From the same show - Rufus Thomas - Jump Back
[www.youtube.com]

Just a smidgen of Cathy McGowan, the RSG presenter at the end....I was 15 years old....

That's cool, thanks! thumbs up

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Harm ()
Date: December 4, 2017 08:08

I like it a lot.

Re: On Air in the Sixties: New Book, CD and LP by The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Monsoon Ragoon ()
Date: December 4, 2017 08:15

They played nearly the entire albums in those days. Today they play three album tracks that all sound the same...

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