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Just downloaded it! The sound is amazing! Is it possible to classify this stuff as official?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-06 22:27 by Kuntaman.

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Kuntaman
Just downloaded it! The sound is amazing! Is it possible to classify this stuff as official?

No, but if true, this would be!


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

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Elmo

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Deltics

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DandelionPowderman

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Deltics
So, not complete then!

Volume 1..

24th January, 1964: UK radio (BBC) 'Go Man Go!', London, Maida Vale.
Host: David Ede.

All songs uncirculating.
- I Wanna Be Your Man (John Lennon/Paul McCartney)
- Pretty Thing (Willie Dixon)
- Bye Bye Johnny (Chuck Berry)
- You Better Move On (Arthur Alexander)
- I Want To Be Loved (Willie Dixon)
- Roll Over Beethoven (Chuck Berry)

...amongst many others.

I have never heard of this show before, would be great to hear Pretty Thing. You say 'amongst many others' - do you have further details of other uncirculating shows/ tracks that you could share with us or know where a list can be found? Many thanks

This is the full list of BBC music sessions by The Stones. This is from my BBC sessions book which is now about a year away from completion at the moment due to other projects. These are all taken from BBC documents and clear up a few mysteries -

1963
rec september 23 tx saturday club october 26
talking about you / money / come on / memphis tennessee / roll over beethoven
Bo Diddley tracks with Bill, Charlie and maybe Brian (??) - bo diddley / road runner / pretty thing / hey bo diddley

The last three songs performed by The Rolling Stones have survived in excellent quality and this programme served as a trial broadcast for the Stones.

1964

24 jan go man go (live broadcast) i wanna be your man/pretty thing/bye bye johnny/you better move on/i want to be loved/roll over beethoven 2.15

I believe the ROB credited to March Sat Club comes from here. They did not appear on Saturday Club in March and the ambient sound convinces me this is where ROB comes from and accounts for the audience. Track length matches too.

february 3 saturday club tx 8 february 64 don’t lie to me / you better move on / i wanna be your man / mona / walking the dog / bye bye johnny

19 march rec rhythm and blues tx may 9 broadcast on network 3 and television, one for each channel
route 66 / cops and robbers / you better move on / mona

10 april the joe loss pop show (live tx) not fade away / high heel sneakers / little by little / i just wanna make lunch for you / i’m moving on

13 april saturday club tx 18 april i just wanna make love to you / walking the dog / not fade away / beautiful delilah /hi heeled sneakers / carol

27 April Top Beat (live tx) walking the dog 3.00 you can make it if you try 2.05 beautiful delilah 2.10

2 shows today, one on radio one on tv both live broadcasts, radio broadcast first then show performed again for tv but Stones played different songs. Beautiful Delilah credited to the non-existent March 64 Saturday Club almost certainly comes from this show. Again, ambient sound and audience seem to back this up as does track length.

Top Beat live tv BBC 2 not fade away 1.55, hi-heel sneakers 2.41, i’m all right 1.48 mcdaniel
this was performed live after the radio concert version. Badman has them performing the same set both times iirc but that is wrong.

May 9 1964 Open House live tx (BBC 2) pasb says Put On Your Red Dress Baby 2.43 (squire) / High Heeled Sneakers 1.51 (higgenbotham).

Clearly this can't be right but it's what the BBC documentation says.

25 may saturday club tx 6 june down in the bottom / you can make it if you try / route 66 / confessin the blues / down the road apiece

17 july the joe loss pop show (live broadcast) it’s all over now / if you need me / confessin the blues / carol / mona

17 july top gear tx 23 july around and around/if you need me/i cant be satisfied/cracking up/ain’t that loving you baby/it’s all over now

The last two get credited to all sorts of shows but they are right there on the BBC paperwork for this show so I'm not sure where previous researchers went wrong on that one.

8 oct tx rhythm and blues general overseas service 31 oct
dust my pyramids .25 / around and around/if you need me/i wanna love you 1.45 pitney/mona/2120 south michigan avenue 3.45

I have asked 2 people to check the archive for this one and they say it's not there contrary to various reports (though I hope they are true) so we might never know the identity of "I Wanna Love You" though if I was a betting man I would say it's either a short version of I Just Want To Make Love To You mis-titled and subsequently accidentally credited to Pitney, composer credits are generally correct on BBC paperwork but I've seen countless errors too or my second best guess for this song is that they mentioned Gene Pitney before playing Not Fade Away and the line I'm gonna love you night and day got mixed up. Less likely but other than that your guess is welcome. ASCAP, BMI credits etc.. reveal no song with that title copyrighted to Pitney.

1965

1 march 65 tx top gear 6 march down the road apiece/everybody needs somebody to lovel/the last time/if you need me

20 aug yeh, yeh tx 30 aug mercy, mercy/baby we’ve got a good thing going/satisfaction/spider and the fly
20 aug saturday club tx 18 sept satisfaction/the spider and the fly/ baby we got a good thing/cry to me/fannie mae

The same recordings were shared between these two shows. Yeh Yeh survives in full.
Other notes on these shows will be in the book if I ever finish it.
So given the destruction of the tapes or given that tapes of the live broadcasts likely never existed, we are pretty lucky so much has survived in any kind of quality. There is always hope that better quality off-airs can surface. I have probably uncovered (with much help) dozens and dozens of hours of 50's and 60's radio shows - some of it not Val Doonican.

Let's hope the Radio Luxembourg acetate Bill has and Videojames mentioned get a full release one day. That's my Stones holy grail right there. A far better idea than the surviving BBC sessions which are easy to find if you want them. Of course, someone could be sitting on some further BBC Stones tapes but as yet there's no evidence for that unless "they" want to step forward.

er not sure why I put I Just Wanna Make Lunch for You on the April 1964 Joe Loss Show....that's what happens when you copy your notes and put them up without reading them. Please be assured there is no such song title and it wasn't like that in the BBC documentation. I must have been bored while typing it up !

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ash
er not sure why I put I Just Wanna Make Lunch for You on the April 1964 Joe Loss Show....that's what happens when you copy your notes and put them up without reading them. Please be assured there is no such song title and it wasn't like that in the BBC documentation. I must have been bored while typing it up !

Lunch is ready!



"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Further to this show referenced above -

rec. 8 oct tx on rhythm and blues general overseas service 31 oct
dust my pyramids .25 / around and around/if you need me/i wanna love you 1.45 (pitney)/mona/2120 south michigan avenue 3.45

As we know, Dust My Pyramids is credited to Richard / Jones. It's only just occurred to me that the title could be a jokey reference to Pyramid guitar strings which if Beatles nerds are to be believed are the best way to get that vintage British sound on your guitars - Pyramid flat wounds which were widely used at the time. At 0.25 it would seem to be more of an introduction / warm-up type number than a fully fledged composition. Perhaps that explains the title ?

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ash
Let's hope the Radio Luxembourg acetate Bill has and Videojames mentioned get a full release one day. That's my Stones holy grail right there. A far better idea than the surviving BBC sessions which are easy to find if you want them. Of course, someone could be sitting on some further BBC Stones tapes but as yet there's no evidence for that unless "they" want to step forward.

Absolutely, and even more because VideoJames claims to have the master tapes. Strange that neither the Stones nor ABKCO did not jump on this opportunity yet considering the fact that the widely available Camden 1964 tracks were given an official release.

Agreed. This Radio Luxembourg acetate or James' tape is a complete no-brainer. A studio quality recording of the original band live with an interesting setlist - mind you no publishing for ABKCO as far as I know.
Surviving examples of other Radio Luxembourg recordings are all off-airs (Billy Fury, Cliff and The Shadows for example) and are highly variable in sound quality to put it in polite terms but the best sounding ones make it clear that they were well-recorded before broadcast. I have heard from more than one source that it was common practice to dump the masters after broadcast of a series. Johnny Kidd and The Pirates did a Radio Luxembourg show in December 1960. Wish that one survived in any form.

What did I miss about this Radio Luxembourg show? What was the setlis

640318B 18th March: Luxemburgian radio (Radio Luxembourg) 'Nestle’s Top Swinging
Groups', London, Regent Sound Studios. Recording of fourteen unverified tracks:
- Bye Bye Johnny (Chuck Berry)
- Diddley Daddy (Ellas McDaniel/Harvey Fuqua)
- I Wanna Be Your Man (John Lennon/Paul McCartney)
- Little By Little (Nanker Phelge/Phil Spector)
- Look What You've Done (McKinley Morganfield)
- Mona (Ellas McDaniel)
- Not Fade Away (Norman Petty/Charles Hardin Holly)
- Now I’ve Got A Witness (Nanker Phelge)
- Pretty Thing (Willie Dixon)
- Reelin’ And Rockin’ (Chuck Berry)
- Roll Over Beethoven (Chuck Berry)
- Route 66 (Bobby Troup)
- Walking The Dog (Rufus Thomas)
- You Better Move On (Arthur Alexander)
Note: Broadcast in 15 minute-slots on the 17th April, 24th April, 1st May and 8th May.

That's from Nico's Nzentgraf's great site.

This was first mentioned in one of Bill's books, maybe Stone Alone, where he said he had the acetate and it's pictured in one of his other books i think. Completely flipped me out but not too many Stones fans seem to consider it important.
Unless we get some official studio outtake sets from the ABKCO period, I think this is the best thing that could be released from the Jones period. The sound quality must be good and certainly retrievable in this day and age, the band had their shit together by this point as a live act plus Radio Luxembourg sessions were generally well recorded plus it's an interesting looking setlist. What could go wrong ?

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ash
Further to this show referenced above -

rec. 8 oct tx on rhythm and blues general overseas service 31 oct
dust my pyramids .25 / around and around/if you need me/i wanna love you 1.45 (pitney)/mona/2120 south michigan avenue 3.45

My guess: I Wanna Love You is in fact Ain't That Loving You.

N

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NeddieFlanders

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ash
Further to this show referenced above -

rec. 8 oct tx on rhythm and blues general overseas service 31 oct
dust my pyramids .25 / around and around/if you need me/i wanna love you 1.45 (pitney)/mona/2120 south michigan avenue 3.45

My guess: I Wanna Love You is in fact Ain't That Loving You.

N

I'm tending to favour "I just Wanna make Love To You" myself and think an error crept in when the BBC were logging the show, dropping some words.
Ain't That Loving You Baby was certainly recorded for Top Gear July 17th 1964 broadcast on the 23rd July. Not impossible they did it for Rhythm and Blues but the mis-title is harder to explain whereas I Wanna Love You just misses out some words - just, make, to...doesn't explain why the composer credit went to Pitney but there are many many examples of incorrect composer details in the BBC files.

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ash

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NeddieFlanders

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ash
Further to this show referenced above -

rec. 8 oct tx on rhythm and blues general overseas service 31 oct
dust my pyramids .25 / around and around/if you need me/i wanna love you 1.45 (pitney)/mona/2120 south michigan avenue 3.45

My guess: I Wanna Love You is in fact Ain't That Loving You.

N

I'm tending to favour "I just Wanna make Love To You" myself and think an error crept in when the BBC were logging the show, dropping some words.
Ain't That Loving You Baby was certainly recorded for Top Gear July 17th 1964 broadcast on the 23rd July. Not impossible they did it for Rhythm and Blues but the mis-title is harder to explain whereas I Wanna Love You just misses out some words - just, make, to...doesn't explain why the composer credit went to Pitney but there are many many examples of incorrect composer details in the BBC files.

"Ain’t That Loving You Baby" according to Zentgraf.

8th October: UK radio (BBC) 'Rhythm And Blues', London. Host: Alexis Korner.
- Dust My Pyramids (KR/BJ) -instrumental
- Around And Around (Chuck Berry)
- lf You Need Me (Wilson Pickett/Robert Bateman)
- Ain’t That Loving You Baby (Jimmy Reed)
- Mona (Ellas McDaniel)
- 2120 South Michigan Avenue (Nanker Phelge)
Note: Broadcast on the 31st October.
[www.nzentgraf.de]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-03 15:04 by Deltics.

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Deltics

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ash

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NeddieFlanders

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ash
Further to this show referenced above -

rec. 8 oct tx on rhythm and blues general overseas service 31 oct
dust my pyramids .25 / around and around/if you need me/i wanna love you 1.45 (pitney)/mona/2120 south michigan avenue 3.45

My guess: I Wanna Love You is in fact Ain't That Loving You.

N

I'm tending to favour "I just Wanna make Love To You" myself and think an error crept in when the BBC were logging the show, dropping some words.
Ain't That Loving You Baby was certainly recorded for Top Gear July 17th 1964 broadcast on the 23rd July. Not impossible they did it for Rhythm and Blues but the mis-title is harder to explain whereas I Wanna Love You just misses out some words - just, make, to...doesn't explain why the composer credit went to Pitney but there are many many examples of incorrect composer details in the BBC files.

"Ain’t That Loving You Baby" according to Zentgraf.

8th October: UK radio (BBC) 'Rhythm And Blues', London. Host: Alexis Korner.
- Dust My Pyramids (KR/BJ) -instrumental
- Around And Around (Chuck Berry)
- lf You Need Me (Wilson Pickett/Robert Bateman)
- Ain’t That Loving You Baby (Jimmy Reed)
- Mona (Ellas McDaniel)
- 2120 South Michigan Avenue (Nanker Phelge)
Note: Broadcast on the 31st October.
[www.nzentgraf.de]

Oh yeah, I appreciate that. My info including the full listing I posted up-thread comes directly from the BBC microfilms and I have double checked it. I cannot post the scans here but I have copies of all this documentation. I am convinced that Aint That Loving You Baby has been shuffled from one show to another by researchers/authors over the years in a struggle to place it but it's right there with It's All Over Now on the last page of the BBC programme log for Top Gear 23 July 1964.
You will notice that the Stones did not appear on Saturday Club in March 64 despite it being listed in various places and the attribution of Roll Over Beethoven and Beautiful Delilah is addressed as well as correct details of the Top Beat broadcasts that Badman made an error with (he also did with the July 1964 Top Gear - understandable in a work the size of his).
The only way to confirm what the mysterious "I Wanna Love You" is would be with a recording of the show and despite reports elsewhere, I have been told by 2 members of staff that they do not hold this show. Wish it would turn up, maybe an engineer kept a copy and how does 2120 survive ???. But, there is zero evidence that Aint That Loving You Baby was recorded for the Rhythm and Blues show and I can only speculate that it may in fact be I Just Want To Make Love To You mis-titled - that is however, speculation.

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DandelionPowderman

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Deltics

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DandelionPowderman

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Deltics
All of these BBC recordings have circulated on bootlegs for years.
Now that they're out of copyright there are many "legal" albums being issued.
I don't know how Spotify works but I doubt very much that the BBC/ABKCO/Promopub have anything to do with this and it's just someone else cashing in.
It's only one of the reasons why an authorised release is still needed so that the original BBC tapes can be used rather than copies of existing bootlegs which is where these recordings come from.

I agree totally, but it's really weird that this one was released on Spotify, along with all the official stuff.

Because the copyright on these has been allowed to lapse, anybody can release them and claim to be the "owners".
Even you or me!

True, but I reckon ABKCO/Promopub/The Stones control what's released through the major worldwide digital channels.

I suspect this release will be taken down soon. How come it is copyrighted 1972, btw?

Like I thought, now it's taken down from Spotify

I guess «Rolling Stones On Air» (The book/CD, which will be released on September 21) was a clever answer to this grey market release.