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MileHigh

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DandelionPowderman
That's just not true. I mean, it's true that the digitalisation was beginning to make its mark by this album already. However, when listening to tracks like Terrifying, Blinded By Love, Almost Hear You Sigh, Continental Drift and Slipping Away, I hear great-sounding / engineered tracks, albeit some of them are produced questionably.

Agreed, listening to the "new" Rolling Stones (1989 to present) to me their most enjoyable stuff is the soft rock and the ballads. They do sound very well recorded and produced. A lot of the acoustic guitar work is very nice, clean and precisely recorded. A playlist of just the soft stuff and the ballads is quite enjoyable.

I can't say much about ABB though because I never really listened to it. And of course I join the SOL haters group.

I think the boys got bored with rock and roll or rock songs over the past three decades. They could never beat their earlier rock material anyway. So the essence of the latter-day Rolling Stones is all in the mellow stuff and that includes Keith's contributions. That's perfectly fine with me.

This last set of ca. 10 posts is really interesting IMO. Several good points. I wonder if B&B receives so many approval votes is because it is a relatively short album. Therefore they left usable real estate on the platter. Which in turn supports better bass response.
One of the thinnest albums I have ever heard, is also one of the longest: "Initiation" by Todd Rundgren. I remember that one literally had to tread lightly while it was playing. A sneeze would make it jump.

And Dandy's point about the fast songs on ABB, coupled with MileHigh's last post. I don't think it is so much that they got bored with rock songs in last decades. I think it all ties in with Keith's loss of leadership in studio. What they really lost was his way of writing; the endless repetition, that had to be tiring, BUT, which gave us all those classics. All those "fast" songs are in truth not really all that fast. They are country, R&B songs that have been crafted so well.
Nowadays the uptempo numbers come from Jagger, and those almost seem by rote. Zip, Bam, Boom - Done. That is why they sound souless. They are.
When he does take his time, the rewards are great.What are the real transcendent late era uptempo numbers via Jagger? "Out of Control", "Saint of Me", "Sweet Thing" - not really "Fast" songs.

^^^
I wonder if B&B receives so many approval votes is because it is a relatively short album. Therefore they left usable real estate on the platter. Which in turn supports better bass response.

Black & Blue is simply recorded and mixed very well. Some Girls is shorter than B&B.

"of course the song IORR is in a band-aid and mud class all by itself which is very decadent and endearing."

MileHigh, I think that might be my single favorite line from this board since I've been here!

Bravo!

T@3

I just listened to Emotional Rescue again...it is painfully thin...no bottom...sounds like a transistor A.M. radio.

Worse than Dirty Work.

The absolute worst.

Not the worst album song wise...but the worst Stones engineered album.

"All About You" is a treasure!

Pecman

BTW.

Wasn't IORR recorded/engineered by Giorgio Moroder of the Disco Fame?

Now...was Jagger on to his talent a head of time or was it that Giorgio Moroder working with the Stones gave him a name and an avenue for success?

One thing I've noticed over the years...there are very little photo's that
exist of the IORR sessions.

I'm sure Rockman can pull a few but very little exist.

Pecman

After reading all these posts...it seems that B & B is the best engineered album and the best engineered/overall album is a tie between Let It Bleed and Sticky Fingers.

I would have to agree that Tattoo You is the runner up.

Don't forget "Undercover"...it is very creative...but it sounds like a bunch of
guys who got new toys and are excited to use them...but can't quite get the handle just yet of how to incorporate them into their sound without sounding like themselves.

Pecman

I can't understand that ER has no bottom. To me (judging by the vinyl record), it has more bottom than treble (the direct opposite of SG) + the best guitar sound ever recorded.

From 68 to 78 the studios offered more tracks, and the Stones always used them very well. I think with unlimited tracks , or even 24 tracks, bands tend to be not as attentive.
When you have the song riding on 2-3 instruments, they must be performed AND recorded very well. Take SFTD, one of Rock's iconic tracks: a Grand Piano, a Bass, percussion. As the song builds we add "ooh oohs", and the lead guitar, which only comes in for solo and outro. I have always thought this a brilliant piece of studio.
The counterpart to this is IMO "Blinded by Love". I really hate this song. First it has terrible lyrics, but every instrument that has any loose connection to Country is in here sawing away.

Have bought a Virgin Some Girls CD 'cause I only owned the 2009 Remaster, and I find the Virgin Sticky and Exile's sound way better and more dynamic.
So now I listened to the Virgin SG and have to say that I like the Remaster better.
The Virgin is of course more dynamic but sounds waaaay to trebly.
The tone of the Remaster is much more peasant as they taimed the highs.
So what I'm gonna do these days is to rip the virgin and match the EQ to the Remaster.

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Pecman
BTW.

Wasn't IORR recorded/engineered by Giorgio Moroder of the Disco Fame?

Now...was Jagger on to his talent a head of time or was it that Giorgio Moroder working with the Stones gave him a name and an avenue for success?

One thing I've noticed over the years...there are very little photo's that
exist of the IORR sessions.

I'm sure Rockman can pull a few but very little exist.

Pecman

[www.rocksoff.org]

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shortfatfanny

¨

OK - I need some help with this one:

from L to R: Keith, Mick, Stu, Charlie, ...and who's that holding the bass?

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RoughJusticeOnYa

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shortfatfanny

¨

OK - I need some help with this one:

from L to R: Keith, Mick, Stu, Charlie, ...and who's that holding the bass?

Giorgio Moroder, I believe.

and WTF is Mick J wearing?!

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peoplewitheyes
and WTF is Mick J wearing?!

Are those cars from the 1971 tour graphics? Looks similar anyway

ER is one of the best 'sounding'...not sure I understand what is supposed to make it 'worst'? It sounds better than Some Girls.

Steel Wheels does suck.

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treaclefingers
ER is one of the best 'sounding'...not sure I understand what is supposed to make it 'worst'? It sounds better than Some Girls.

You were 15 then.

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treaclefingers
Steel Wheels does suck.

You were 24 then.

I have to go with Tattoo You or Black and Blue..GHS is too small of a sound for the band...Honorable mention would be ABB ,save for some filler songs that do not lend to whole album repeat-ability.

What a moustache! Those guys in the 70's sure knew how to sport those things. I just saw a doc that had Jerry Marotta , drummer, in it, and he too was behind one of those jobs.

Best Engineered - Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Black and Blue and Tattoo You.
Worst Engineered - all the albums produced by Don Was (also have the worst mastering).

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roller99

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dmay
Please excuse my lack of knowledge here, but what is the difference between a producer on an album and the engineer? I would think the engineer follows the directions of the producer as to the sound/feel/style of the album in terms of what he/she - the engineer - is to do if mixing the tracks on an album is their primary function. What other functions does an album engineer do?

A producer has the "vision" for what they want the music to sound like, the engineer has to make it happen. Al Schmitt, the producer of Bob Dylan's last two albums had some interesting anecdotes about the recording techniques used with Dylan.
Interview with Al Schmitt and tour of Capitol Studios

Fantastic article! That bit about Dylan is great: old SKOOL!

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StonedRambler
I understand if someone finds Some Girls sounding bad. It has a lot of edgy high mids which can sound really nasty if you turn it up on bad speakers.
But for me that edgy, agressive sound is exactly what I love about Some Girls!
Always thought that it fits perfectly to the punk-rock-like style many of the songs have (just like the rough Exile-sound fits to those songs)
It sounds wild indeed and was the sound of the Stones' comeback after a few mediocre albums after exile. On my speakers, when turned up loud, Some Girls sounds almost like a live-PA sound.

Here's a very interesting article about the recording techniques of Some Girls

[www.soundonsound.com]

You're close to why it sounds bad in a sense: on a mix/playlist/etc the SG songs sound thin, trebly and come off as a poke in the ears, with exception to Shattered due to all the booming drums and key that it's in.

Listening to the album proper, well, of course it sounds fine: it's in its context. But listen to Hang Fire or Black Limousine or Start Me Up (I still think it's actually from the BLACK AND BLUE sessions because of the drum sound or Clearmountain really was that wizardly good) and compare them to anything on SG and it makes sense, and gives a nod towards why EMOTIONAL RESCUE sounds a thousand times better.

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DandelionPowderman
I can't understand that ER has no bottom. To me (judging by the vinyl record), it has more bottom than treble (the direct opposite of SG) + the best guitar sound ever recorded.

That's why the thread title is a bit... it's not misleading, it's misinterpreted.

Engineering strictly means recording: how, why.

UNDERCOVER has some fantastic recording techniques on it, the best one (and one of the best recording moments in terms of a mix) being Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love) with the drum roll coming back in after that rumbly break - that's a mic way up in the corner or far far away in the room.

ER, LIB, EOMS, B&B, GHS and SF give us fantastic engineering due to either the lack of isolation (the live vocals bleeding through or live guitar solos bleeding through), a lack of better equipment and room mics catching various odd things (Ronnie's guffaw during How Can I Stop on BRIDGES is a great example).

best
black n blue
s fingers
let it bleed

best banquet and bleed
worst I don't know; so many to chose from!!

I think it really depends on what material you listen to these albums. For example the Japanese flat transfers SACD's sound great. I mean all of them: from Sticky Fingers to Dirty Work.
But if I had to pick the best sounding albums among them it would be Black and Blue, Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You. Some Girls should be included too but, not sure why, it has a compressed mastering on the SACD.

For the 60's and if listened on any release from the 2002 remasters, I would pick Aftermath and Beggars Banquet. Let It Bleed is quite alright but it doesn't sound as good as BB.

Finally for the digital era (from Steel Wheels), Bridges To Babylon has possibly the better sound overall. A Bigger Bang being possibly the worst engineered Stones album ever (though I got used to its sound with time...)

Blue and Lonesome, despite the compressed mastering, sounds surprisingly quite alright.

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kowalski
I think it really depends on what material you listen to these albums. For example the Japanese flat transfers SACD's sound great. I mean all of them: from Sticky Fingers to Dirty Work.
But if I had to pick the best sounding albums among them it would be Black and Blue, Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You. Some Girls should be included too but, not sure why, it has a compressed mastering on the SACD.

For the 60's and if listened on any release from the 2002 remasters, I would pick Aftermath and Beggars Banquet. Let It Bleed is quite alright but it doesn't sound as good as BB.

Finally for the digital era (from Steel Wheels), Bridges To Babylon has possibly the better sound overall. A Bigger Bang being possibly the worst engineered Stones album ever (though I got used to its sound with time...)

Blue and Lonesome, despite the compressed mastering, sounds surprisingly quite alright.

Agree with everything here, except for Bridges To Babylon, where I think there is a «coldness» to every instrument on most songs.

Strangely, that coldness is not there on Keith's three songs, which sound both warm and not so trebly (and the mixes of those songs sound a bit more muddy).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-15 11:48 by DandelionPowderman.

Yeah Kowalski ..... you've summed it up pretty well ....
I cant handle the SACD of Some Girls .,..
Bridges To Babylon is good but ya cant crank it very loud .....

As for Aftermath the MONO version boots me every time ....



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
Yeah Kowalski ..... you've summed it up pretty well ....
I cant handle the SACD of Some Girls .,..
Bridges To Babylon is good but ya cant crank it very loud .....

As for Aftermath the MONO version boots me every time ....

Exactly. But try Keef's track on 11...

Yeah I get ya Dandeeeee .... I agree
Although I do lurv the sound of Anybody Seen My Baby ...



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
Yeah I get ya Dandeeeee .... I agree
Although I do lurv the sound of Anybody Seen My Baby ...

That one sounds softer/warmer than the others, true. Same with the b-side Any Way You Look At It.