The Pink Floyd story (& aftermath) is certainly fascinating. All I can add is I am really looking forward to seeing the Waters show in 2 weeks. I've heard a few tapes & watched some footage on youtube. The new band Roger has put together is certainly up to the task at hand. The visuals I've seen are stunning & some things are groundbreaking. Roger has a genius for presentation & I'm sure other acts will be liberally lifting concepts from this show for years to come. Notice who's video setup all of the bands were using last year at Desert Trip to whatever extent. I think that what I like most is that at age 73 Roger hasn't lost his passion & he is not afraid to put himself out there despite potential repercussions. Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, he is saying some things that need to be said. On the tapes I've heard, even the "warhorses" have a ton of energy. There's a really short list of artists that can or want to pull that off. I think the controversy is probably hurting him a little at the box office but that doesn't seem to deter him. I say more power to him. The new record is one that gets better with subsequent listenings. It's a powerful statement. I think the message is wake up & be aware of what is going on around you. That is sadly lacking in society these days.

I finally had a spin through Waters's new album. I like what I'm hearing so far. Haven't really gotten his previous solo attempts, but this sound very good to my ears.

Quote
RollingFreak
And Dave, and Roger, really tried their hardest to help me too which I always thought was nice.

I'm sure that was a typo, wasn't it? Oh, there's no "wink-wink" smiley here, oh well.

Yes, it does seem Pink Floyd was more a "band of brothers", weren't they? After all, when they needed a fill-in for Syd, they went for someone they already knew, a hometown boy, and who was someone who already knew Syd.

They even invited Syd to that "Big 8" concert, wasn't it 2005ish? They brought their old sax player, who played on Dark Side, etc., and even Bob Klose, who played lead on Lucy Leave -- from the original Pink Five!

One only wishes two certain Dartford boys could be so magnanimous about their background. Not that folks who've passed could be helped at this point, but howza bout a little acknowledgment from time to time?

Quote
stonehearted

Quote
RollingFreak
And Dave, and Roger, really tried their hardest to help me too which I always thought was nice.

I'm sure that was a typo, wasn't it? Oh, there's no "wink-wink" smiley here, oh well.

Yes, it does seem Pink Floyd was more a "band of brothers", weren't they? After all, when they needed a fill-in for Syd, they went for someone they already knew, a hometown boy, and who was someone who already knew Syd.

They even invited Syd to that "Big 8" concert, wasn't it 2005ish? They brought their old sax player, who played on Dark Side, etc., and even Bob Klose, who played lead on Lucy Leave -- from the original Pink Five!

One only wishes two certain Dartford boys could be so magnanimous about their background. Not that folks who've passed could be helped at this point, but howza bout a little acknowledgment from time to time?

That line from RollingFreak left me a bit puzzled as well, and almost made a comment, then thought maybe RollingFreak is referring to how the music of Pink Floyd has helped him through life?
That Dave and Roger tried their hardest to write great songs, and RollingFreak thinks they were written specifically for him?

Don't know whether to insert a smiley face or a sad face or a confused face or an astonished face...certainly it must have been a typo.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
crholmstrom
The Pink Floyd story (& aftermath) is certainly fascinating. All I can add is I am really looking forward to seeing the Waters show in 2 weeks. I've heard a few tapes & watched some footage on youtube. The new band Roger has put together is certainly up to the task at hand. The visuals I've seen are stunning & some things are groundbreaking. Roger has a genius for presentation & I'm sure other acts will be liberally lifting concepts from this show for years to come. Notice who's video setup all of the bands were using last year at Desert Trip to whatever extent. I think that what I like most is that at age 73 Roger hasn't lost his passion & he is not afraid to put himself out there despite potential repercussions. Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, he is saying some things that need to be said. On the tapes I've heard, even the "warhorses" have a ton of energy. There's a really short list of artists that can or want to pull that off. I think the controversy is probably hurting him a little at the box office but that doesn't seem to deter him. I say more power to him. The new record is one that gets better with subsequent listenings. It's a powerful statement. I think the message is wake up & be aware of what is going on around you. That is sadly lacking in society these days.

He is a man on a mission!

And yes a fascinating history: it dawned on me earlier that along with all those Pink Floyd dedicated magazines I've bought throughout the years (Mojo, Uncut, Classic Rock, etc), I also have the Nick Mason book Inside Out another book titled Comfortably Numb, plus a book dedicated solely to the original Wall tour, a book on the art of Gerald Scarffe, and a book filled with the art of Hipgnosis and Storm Thorgerson. I suppose Pink Floyd has been somewhat of a small obsession of mine over the years, along with the Stones, Beatles, Hendrix, Blues, Reggae, Punk, Folk, Funk, Country, R&B, etc., etc., etc.,..............

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball

Quote
stonehearted

Quote
RollingFreak
And Dave, and Roger, really tried their hardest to help me too which I always thought was nice.

I'm sure that was a typo, wasn't it? Oh, there's no "wink-wink" smiley here, oh well.

Yes, it does seem Pink Floyd was more a "band of brothers", weren't they? After all, when they needed a fill-in for Syd, they went for someone they already knew, a hometown boy, and who was someone who already knew Syd.

They even invited Syd to that "Big 8" concert, wasn't it 2005ish? They brought their old sax player, who played on Dark Side, etc., and even Bob Klose, who played lead on Lucy Leave -- from the original Pink Five!

One only wishes two certain Dartford boys could be so magnanimous about their background. Not that folks who've passed could be helped at this point, but howza bout a little acknowledgment from time to time?

That line from RollingFreak left me a bit puzzled as well, and almost made a comment, then thought maybe RollingFreak is referring to how the music of Pink Floyd has helped him through life?
That Dave and Roger tried their hardest to write great songs, and RollingFreak thinks they were written specifically for him?

Don't know whether to insert a smiley face or a sad face or a confused face or an astonished face...certainly it must have been a typo.

LOL nope! Meant Syd but typing at 3 in the morning I messed up! That didn't all of a sudden just get very deep for me, simply a typo!

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RollingFreak

Quote
Hairball

Quote
stonehearted

Quote
RollingFreak
And Dave, and Roger, really tried their hardest to help me too which I always thought was nice.

I'm sure that was a typo, wasn't it? Oh, there's no "wink-wink" smiley here, oh well.

Yes, it does seem Pink Floyd was more a "band of brothers", weren't they? After all, when they needed a fill-in for Syd, they went for someone they already knew, a hometown boy, and who was someone who already knew Syd.

They even invited Syd to that "Big 8" concert, wasn't it 2005ish? They brought their old sax player, who played on Dark Side, etc., and even Bob Klose, who played lead on Lucy Leave -- from the original Pink Five!

One only wishes two certain Dartford boys could be so magnanimous about their background. Not that folks who've passed could be helped at this point, but howza bout a little acknowledgment from time to time?

That line from RollingFreak left me a bit puzzled as well, and almost made a comment, then thought maybe RollingFreak is referring to how the music of Pink Floyd has helped him through life?
That Dave and Roger tried their hardest to write great songs, and RollingFreak thinks they were written specifically for him?

Don't know whether to insert a smiley face or a sad face or a confused face or an astonished face...certainly it must have been a typo.

LOL nope! Meant Syd but typing at 3 in the morning I messed up! That didn't all of a sudden just get very deep for me, simply a typo!

Lol - had me worried there for a minute.

That being said, David and Roger have helped me through life simply by providing some great music (like many great bands)- some it better than others.
And while I can relate to alot of it on a personal level, none of it was written specifically for me!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Haha nah, unfortunately I do not have the pleasure of knowing either of them personally to help me through the (thankfully) unimportant hardships I have in my life.

I will say that after being in a Floyd mode for a week or so and finally coming out of it, here I am back in it three weeks later after hearing the new Waters album. Just watched on Youtube two great documentaries that I highly recommend if you've never seen and are in a Floyd mood:

Pink Floyd Story - Which One's Pink? : [www.youtube.com]

Story of Wish You Were Here: [www.youtube.com]

I feel I criticize all the guys pretty fairly, mainly cause I also love them all pretty equally, although I give Roger a lot of credit in both of these. In the first he's able to admit he was wrong in the 80s about his lawsuits in stuff. Really big of him, especially because I and many others don't even think he's wrong. But for a stubborn old git it is nice to see he's capable of admitting his wrongs. Also find it admirable in the Wish You Were Here one how he really spearheaded that album and fought Dave to drop Dogs and Sheep. I guess its because thats how we know the album now, but Roger was totally right that it would have felt cobbled together. He can get a lot of crap about being a dictator but that was a smart decision and one he was right to stand up for at the time, not even mentioning the incredible pressure he already had after Dark Side to follow that.

Sometimes I do forget what a truly excellent band they were even though I've heard all of this a million times.

Yes those are good videos, and there's many more where they came from:

Another great one:

PINK FLOYD - The Dark Side Of The Moon 2003 Documentary HD

Some of the many doc videos are better than others, alot of the info. might be repeated, and some of them are unauthorized
with a bunch of talking heads yapping about - but all have interesting tidbits of info. - some more than others.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

A really good Syd/Pink doc not mentioned above is The Pink Floyd & Syd Barrett Story, from 2001 for British television.

This is noteworthy because Barrett actually watched this one. His sister told him about it, so she had him over and they watched the docu together. She notes that his only comment was "It's a bit loud", but he did also say that it was nice to see Mike Leonard (their old landlord) again. He also reportedly enjoyed hearing See Emily Play again.

First 9:18: [www.youtube.com]

crholmstrom - the show is a total knock out! Musically and visually, it's just very cool. You're gonna love it. (As I wrote earlier in this thread, I attended the Louisville show).
Another couple Pink Floyd things to mention (which may have been discussed elsewhere). They have their Mortal Remains exhibit now at the V&A, for those that may be in, or visiting London this summer.
Also - their Early Years Box Set (which runs around $500!) is now available in individual years - each running $30 - $40 or so. I picked up 1969, '70 and '72. All really good - filled with great video, and CDs, much of it never before seen/heard stuff. I for one was really not all that familiar with some of the pre-DSOTM stuff - and there is some great material to be discovered. And some of the video stuff is really interesting - just to see them in the early days, just rocking out - before they got so advanced with the audio visuals, which made them have to adhere more to the production of the show. And a young David Gilmour - just beautiful man. Highly recommended.
Anyway - anyone who is a Floyd fan, really should try and catch one of RW's shows this summer. It's a stunner!

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stonehearted

Coincidentally, this photo popped up this morning in my newsfeed on facebook from a Pink Floyd page - Same photo session:



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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-09 23:44 by Hairball.

Review of Denver show from Westworld:

Roger Waters Concert Was Offensively Anti-Trump in a Rock-and-Roll Way
By Chris Walker

RESIST

While he was campaigning to be president, Donald Trump famously railed against political correctness.

"I'm so tired of this politically correct crap," Trump crowed at one campaign rally in South Carolina in September 2015. He’d go on to repeat variations of that statement multiple times before the November 2016 election, when 46.4 percent of American voters put him into office.

But while it was unusual to hear a mainstream candidate for America’s highest office so blatantly disregard the idea of inclusivity and attack vast groups of people (calling Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals, for example), rock music, as an art form, has always been similarly anti-establishment in how it can be used to challenge norms, flout authority and make people uncomfortable.

That was exactly what veteran rocker Roger Waters, one of the original members of Pink Floyd, has gone after on his latest — and perhaps last — mega-tour; there was nothing politically correct about his concert at the Pepsi Center on Saturday, June 3. (He’s also playing a second show tonight, Sunday, June 4.)

Waters’s show was an utter evisceration of President Donald Trump and American imperialism, so brazenly defiant and offensive that it seemed Waters would have been ecstatic if he succeeded in shocking any Trump sympathizers right out of the arena.

On a giant LED video screen suspended behind the stage, images of Trump were superimposed with KKK and Nazi Germany iconography, and at one point during the song “Pigs,” there was even a brief zoom-in of a Trump statue with a micro-penis. Every time Rogers sung the line of the song’s chorus, “Ha ha, charade you are,” the word “charade” was beamed on screen next to leering portraits of Trump.

But perhaps the most direct f*ck-yous to the president were Trump's own quotes, including those from the infamous Access Hollywood tape, emblazoned across the giant screen.

When “Pigs” concluded with the message “TRUMP ERES UN PENDEJO” (translated from Spanish to “Trump, you’re an @#$%&”), the packed crowd at the Pepsi Center leapt to its feet and roared in approval and laughter.

As Waters’s ten-person band continued into the Floyd favorite “Money,” the song was accompanied by images of Mar-a-Lago and some of Trump's failed casinos, like the Taj Mahal.

Certainly, there were some in the audience who stayed quiet or felt uncomfortable during some of the most politically charged theatrics — like when a group of Denver schoolchildren appeared on stage for “Another Brick in the Wall Part, Pt. 2” and ripped off orange jumpsuits to reveal T-shirts with the word “RESIST” on them. But for the most part, the audience was fired up and defiant. The show put the most powerful man in the world on trial, and one could only wonder what kind of enraged tweets Trump would send out if he'd sat in on even a portion of the concert.

The decision to eschew any degree of political correctness was a calculated one by Waters, who has a history of activism around things like Israeli campaigns in Palestine (which just last week caused Waters to get into a feud with Radiohead’s Thom Yorke over boycotting concerts in Israel).

During parts of Saturday’s show, there were signs of what Waters’s concert would have been like had he just played it safe and stuck to the space-rock vibes of many of the Floyd songs he was performing. During “A Great Gig in the Sky,” from Dark Side of the Moon, for instance, we had the impression we were soaring through the cosmos, as the LED screen depicted stars and galaxies behind live footage of two soul singers on stage who wore matching platinum-colored wigs and absolutely killed with their harmonized re-creation of singer Clare Torry’s wailing vocals on the original, recorded version of the song.

The two-and-a-half-hour-long hit parade of Pink Floyd songs drew heavily from Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals and The Wall.

But while Waters delivered on those classics with a tight and talented band (including backing vocals from psych-rocker Jonathan Wilson), this tour was never about keeping audiences comfortably numb.


That was made clear even by the inclusion of four politically themed songs from Waters’s new solo album, the not-so-subtly titled Is This the Life We Really Want?, which was released just a day before the Pepsi Center show, on Friday, June 2.

Waters was emotional at times, as when he almost choked up addressing the Denver crowd. “I don’t know how many years it’s been since I played here, but this has always been a great music town.”

But while it was apparent that he was happy to oblige Pink Floyd fans by playing the hits that helped define the 1970s, Waters was not about to let his crowd forget why, at 73 years old, he’s still giving his all on a worldwide tour.

During the final song of the show, just as the band launched into the climactic guitar solo of “Comfortably Numb,” confetti suddenly rained down from the rafters of the arena. Printed on one side of the small pieces of paper was the word “RESIST.”

And whether or not you agree with the message, it was a rock-and-roll kind of statement.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Am I the only one who isn't a huge fan of The Wall?

To me it just feels very self-indulgent...too much of Waters running rampant. Of course, I love Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, Another Brick in the Wall, and aa few other cuts...there's a lot of great material on there, but overall it doesn't mesmerize me like their earlier work.

Floyd has always been about Gilmour's voice and guitar in conjunction with the incredible soundscapes and atmosphere they create with Rick Wright's ambient synths and keyboards.

Waters' lyrical musings have never really grabbed me on their own, and that's what The Wall feels dominated by.

Quote
keefriff99
Am I the only one who isn't a huge fan of The Wall?

To me it just feels very self-indulgent...too much of Waters running rampant. Of course, I love Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, Another Brick in the Wall, and aa few other cuts...there's a lot of great material on there, but overall it doesn't mesmerize me like their earlier work.

Floyd has always been about Gilmour's voice and guitar in conjunction with the incredible soundscapes and atmosphere they create with Rick Wright's ambient synths and keyboards.

Waters' lyrical musings have never really grabbed me on their own, and that's what The Wall feels dominated by.

If you narrowed it down to a single album (like all their other albums in the past), you might have liked it more? You mention "Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, Another Brick in the Wall, and a few other cuts" which might have been enough for a single album and might have done the trick for you. But being that it is a double album, there's alot to take in with a wide variety of sounds and styles, and the concept/story line demanded that it takes up two entire albums. Since it's so ingrained in me since it was released from start to finish, I'd find it impossible to narrow it down to one album - that would be like editing out half of the Godfather, and still expecting it to be a great movie.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
Coincidentally, this photo popped up this morning in my newsfeed on facebook from a Pink Floyd page - Same photo session:

Nice find, Hairball, I hadn't seen that one.

That first image I posted I have on a T-shirt, which I'm wearing today.

In that second image, you really see, in Syd's eyes, just how far gone he really was at that point. Other musicians would have to put on mascara to get that "black holes in the sky" effect...

Quote
Hairball

Quote
keefriff99
Am I the only one who isn't a huge fan of The Wall?

To me it just feels very self-indulgent...too much of Waters running rampant. Of course, I love Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, Another Brick in the Wall, and aa few other cuts...there's a lot of great material on there, but overall it doesn't mesmerize me like their earlier work.

Floyd has always been about Gilmour's voice and guitar in conjunction with the incredible soundscapes and atmosphere they create with Rick Wright's ambient synths and keyboards.

Waters' lyrical musings have never really grabbed me on their own, and that's what The Wall feels dominated by.

If you narrowed it down to a single album (like all their other albums in the past), you might have liked it more? You mention "Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, Another Brick in the Wall, and a few other cuts" which might have been enough for a single album and might have done the trick for you. But being that it is a double album, there's alot to take in with a wide variety of sounds and styles, and the concept/story line demanded that it takes up two entire albums. Since it's so ingrained in me since it was released from start to finish, I'd find it impossible to narrow it down to one album - that would be like editing out half of the Godfather, and still expecting it to be a great movie.

It's a fantastic work of art...it just doesn't captivate me start to finish the way other Floyd albums do. Yes, I suppose part of it is the length. Double albums really need to hit it out of the park for me, or else I find myself skipping tracks that I consider filler.

This will end up being a slightly OT ramble, but as was discussed in another thread, the increased capacity of CDs ended up being a bad thing for the music industry. Most bands can't fill up a CD with quality material...I miss the days of 8-10 songs and a 40-45 minute run-time.

How many times have we discussed on this board how the biggest problem with albums like Voodoo Lounge and ABB is that there are too many substandard tracks? If those albums were 10 tight songs with the fat trimmed off, they would be infinitely better albums.

Again, that was a somewhat OT rant, because I'm not suggesting that The Wall should be edited. It's Roger's story and it's an effective one at that...it's just not an album I love as much as other Floyd albums.

Quote
DEmerson
crholmstrom - the show is a total knock out! Musically and visually, it's just very cool. You're gonna love it. (As I wrote earlier in this thread, I attended the Louisville show).
Another couple Pink Floyd things to mention (which may have been discussed elsewhere). They have their Mortal Remains exhibit now at the V&A, for those that may be in, or visiting London this summer.
Also - their Early Years Box Set (which runs around $500!) is now available in individual years - each running $30 - $40 or so. I picked up 1969, '70 and '72. All really good - filled with great video, and CDs, much of it never before seen/heard stuff. I for one was really not all that familiar with some of the pre-DSOTM stuff - and there is some great material to be discovered. And some of the video stuff is really interesting - just to see them in the early days, just rocking out - before they got so advanced with the audio visuals, which made them have to adhere more to the production of the show. And a young David Gilmour - just beautiful man. Highly recommended.
Anyway - anyone who is a Floyd fan, really should try and catch one of RW's shows this summer. It's a stunner!

Thanks DE! 2 weeks from today for the show. I've been familiar with all the albums for decades now (eesh!). I couldn't really afford the early years box but it came my way via other means. Is like I would love the new Midnight Oil sets but $500 just isn't happening. Glad you enjoyed the show.

Quote
keefriff99
Am I the only one who isn't a huge fan of The Wall?

To me it just feels very self-indulgent...too much of Waters running rampant. Of course, I love Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, Another Brick in the Wall, and aa few other cuts...there's a lot of great material on there, but overall it doesn't mesmerize me like their earlier work.

Floyd has always been about Gilmour's voice and guitar in conjunction with the incredible soundscapes and atmosphere they create with Rick Wright's ambient synths and keyboards.

Waters' lyrical musings have never really grabbed me on their own, and that's what The Wall feels dominated by.

Did you see the live presentation? Roger's version was 1 of the best shows I've ever seen or very high up on the list. & I saw the original back in the day.

Quote
Hairball
Waters’s show was an utter evisceration of President Donald Trump and American imperialism, so brazenly defiant and offensive that it seemed Waters would have been ecstatic if he succeeded in shocking any Trump sympathizers right out of the arena.


The decision to eschew any degree of political correctness was a calculated one by Waters, who has a history of activism around things like Israeli campaigns in Palestine (which just last week caused Waters to get into a feud with Radiohead’s Thom Yorke over boycotting concerts in Israel).
[/b]

Somehow, after reading through this thread, one can clearly make a case that Waters is a lot like Trump in his own way. Could it be that Waters lashing out against Trump is just him being critical of himself, or a parody of himself or Pink Floyd?

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
Hairball
Waters’s show was an utter evisceration of President Donald Trump and American imperialism, so brazenly defiant and offensive that it seemed Waters would have been ecstatic if he succeeded in shocking any Trump sympathizers right out of the arena.


The decision to eschew any degree of political correctness was a calculated one by Waters, who has a history of activism around things like Israeli campaigns in Palestine (which just last week caused Waters to get into a feud with Radiohead’s Thom Yorke over boycotting concerts in Israel)".
[/b]

Somehow, after reading through this thread, one can clearly make a case that Waters is a lot like Trump in his own way. Could it be that Waters lashing out against Trump is just him being critical of himself, or a parody of himself or Pink Floyd?

Lol...interesting theory..could be?
Or at 73, maybe he's simply losing his marbles?

Hmmmm...I don't think so. He's just a grumpy and angry old dude who likes to rant and rave about things he thinks are wrong with the world imo.
But I guess it depends on how you look at it, and I'm not a psychiatrist so can't give a full evaluation or make a case one way or the other.
Though you say "one can clearly make the case"? Let's hear it.

*(for the record, those words you quoted above are not mine, but from the writer who wrote the review - in case anyone isn't clear on that)

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-10 11:20 by Hairball.

just play your music and shut up!

Quote
The Sicilian
Somehow, after reading through this thread, one can clearly make a case that Waters is a lot like Trump in his own way. Could it be that Waters lashing out against Trump is just him being critical of himself, or a parody of himself or Pink Floyd?

Nonsense, Trump can still hit the high notes and doesn't resort to lip-synching.

Seriously, the "play the music and shut up" response doesn't really fit Roger at all. He has been outspoken politically in his art since THE FINAL CUT. I haven't seen the show (I'll wait till I have a chance to see it professionally filmed and edited) so I can't judge whether it's overkill (hardly the first time Roger has been guilty of that charge) or whether it's a matter of stirring a crowd up to be as one. If the latter, it's a brilliant move as art.

What I don't agree with is the chorus of "it's a message that needs to be voiced regardless of one's political beliefs." That's simply rubbish. One's political beliefs always make a difference. A certain German dictator in the 1930s had stadium crowds on his side. It didn't make his message one that needed to be heard. That said, I don't understand Trump supporters going to the show and booing. You know the product you're buying. Don't complain when it does what it intended to do.

As for me personally, I think he's a bit over the top with Trump to the degree it might spoil the fun, but you don't know the mood unless you've been there. I think he's way over the top with some of his thoughts on the Middle East, but it's what I expect from Roger. Much of what he writes and sings on the new album also strikes me as dead-on. For me, he's always been that enigmatic voice I agree with who takes it to an extreme where I can no longer agree with him. Much like "In the Flesh." Art imitating life imitating art, perhaps? I like Roger and accept he wants to make people uncomfortable and to make them question right and wrong.

As for all the political nonsense, just wait until the new Stones album is out. I don't envy trying to keep order if there is a bigger controversy than Rush Limbaugh being upset over "Sweet Neo Con."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-10 18:17 by Rocky Dijon.

Knowing that Roger was political, but not following much else re his newer music, I was pleasantly surprised/blown away with his anti-45 rhetoric/props at Desert Trip. Loved it.. flying pigs and all. Without it the show would have still been fantastic with the music and visuals, but (for me) it was the cherry on top.

Would love to see the Stones answer the co-opting of their songs by the liar in chief with similar ferocity.
Either in the form of (new) music or visuals.

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Rocky Dijon

Quote
The Sicilian
Somehow, after reading through this thread, one can clearly make a case that Waters is a lot like Trump in his own way. Could it be that Waters lashing out against Trump is just him being critical of himself, or a parody of himself or Pink Floyd?

Nonsense, Trump can still hit the high notes and doesn't resort to lip-synching.

Seriously, the "play the music and shut up" response doesn't really fit Roger at all. He has been outspoken politically in his art since THE FINAL CUT. I haven't seen the show (I'll wait till I have a chance to see it professionally filmed and edited) so I can't judge whether it's overkill (hardly the first time Roger has been guilty of that charge) or whether it's a matter of stirring a crowd up to be as one. If the latter, it's a brilliant move as art.

What I don't agree with is the chorus of "it's a message that needs to be voiced regardless of one's political beliefs." That's simply rubbish. One's political beliefs always make a difference. A certain German dictator in the 1930s had stadium crowds on his side. It didn't make his message one that needed to be heard. That said, I don't understand Trump supporters going to the show and booing. You know the product you're buying. Don't complain when it does what it intended to do.

As for me personally, I think he's a bit over the top with Trump to the degree it might spoil the fun, but you don't know the mood unless you've been there. I think he's way over the top with some of his thoughts on the Middle East, but it's what I expect from Roger. Much of what he writes and sings on the new album also strikes me as dead-on. For me, he's always been that enigmatic voice I agree with who takes it to an extreme where I can no longer agree with him. Much like "In the Flesh." Art imitating life imitating art, perhaps? I like Roger and accept he wants to make people uncomfortable and to make them question right and wrong.

As for all the political nonsense, just wait until the new Stones album is out. I don't envy trying to keep order if there is a bigger controversy than Rush Limbaugh being upset over "Sweet Neo Con."

Nice post Rocky.
I believe he's been outspoken politically before the Final Cut - but it's been much more predominant dominant since The Final Cut. The Wall had it - Run Like Hell for example. Animals before that had a pretty hefty dose of it, though maybe a bit more abstract and subtle. The sheep, the pigs, and the Dogs all used metaphorically - the track Pigs (Three Different Ones) currently being played this tour is the backdrop for all of the Trump bashing. Dark Side of the Moon also had some more subtle politics with Us and Them ("Forward he cried from the rear and the front rank died. And the general sat and the lines on the map moved from side to side"). And way before that the ant-war tune Corporal Clegg "who had a wooden leg, He won it in the war, in 1944". Many more examples, and it's been a common recurring theme throughout his entire career.

And I must have overlooked it, but where did this quote come from: "it's a message that needs to be voiced regardless of one's political beliefs"? I hope I didn't say that lol! It probably only really needs to be heard from those who happen to agree with it imo, and/or those who choose to listen with an open mind. Whether it's too fer left or too far right, I can't imagine being forced to listen to a certain message - I might choose to and take from it what I want, which could be nothing at all. I do see the final sentence in the review that says "And whether or not you agree with the message, it was a rock-and-roll kind of statement" which has a completely different meaning than the above imo.

I think I've already touched on it earlier in this thread, but the Trump bashing goes on for a bit too long (whether I agree with it or not), and though it is one of the highlights of the show , it would have been even more powerful if the focus wasn't completely on one man for 10 minutes. There's plenty of other knucklheaded leaders he could have criticized and "utterly eviscerate". And while that portion of the shows was more timely at Desert Trip prior to the elections, now it seems a bit dated and redundant - as in tell us something most of the world doesn't already know. My reaction at Desert Trip was wow, Roger has gigantic balls to put it all out there like that, and I'll admit it was funny, thought-provoking, and powerful as did 99% of the people there seemed to completely enjoy it. But there was nothing subtle or abstract about it (which might be a fault) - it was a direct criticism with no if's, and's, or but's about it. Sometimes spoonfeeding (or in this case jack hammering) ones's message can be overkill, and sometimes less is more.

The lyrics to the new tune 'Picture That' are somewhat abstract which makes them more powerful: "Picture a shithouse with no f*cking drains, Picture a leader with no f*cking brains..."... no names are mentioned, it's more open to interpretation, one can come to their own conclusion, and for that it is more powerful. Not subtle by any means, but leaves some room for the imagination.

The bottom line:

"I like Roger and accept he wants to make people uncomfortable and to make them question right and wrong".

Agreed.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-10 19:33 by Hairball.

It wasn't you, Hairball. It wasn't anyone in particular. More just an attitude those who have reviewed the album are taking that strikes me as a bit short-sighted. Whatever political or philosophical leanings one has make all the difference. The outspoken are never for everyone no matter how important they are culturally.

Generally speaking, I think most of our personal opinions align. The thing is, it is just personal opinions. I prefer Roger's earlier work where he was, as you say, more subtle. I think a more restrained Roger is more effective. "Picture That" to me, is "Not Now, John" all over again in terms of the buttons being pressed. Not saying they're awful songs, but they lack the majesty that something like "Us and Them" carried.

That said, does Roger Waters have a right to be an Angry Old Man and use his art to convey his political thoughts? Of course he does and anyone attending his concert or buying his album should expect it. He's made it clear he's likely to do just that over the years.

For me, I don't always have to agree with everything an artist voices, same with Dylan. I just have to agree with most of it to think they're someone that, if I knew them personally, I could have a conversation with them.

It's easy to picture Roger as a Fuhrer-figure because he's played the role successfully since THE WALL (or, I suppose, the ANIMALS tour). I can accept that. Sometimes ("What God Wants") I even greatly enjoy it. He's an interesting figure. I've not really stood with him completely where Israel is concerned. That's my choice. He's never dull and you know he's passionate.

He's a surly old man with the ultimate platform to tell people to get off his lawn. More power to him! We used to call him old misery guts back in the day. Trent Reznor was young misery guts. I'm not going to get into politics out of respect for BV but I happen to agree with him on a lot of issues including the really thorny one for a lot of folks. Another time & place....

Yes that Israel thing he has going on is somewhat of a "can of worms" for me, and I don't have enough knowledge of it all to really comment too much on it. I will say there were several protestors up in the pit at one of the Desert Trip shows waving the Israeli flag, but they were really quite peaceful about it and not attempting to disrupt the show - they just wanted their presence felt. Anyhow.......that's enough of that topic for me, I'm much more comfortable talking about the Trump bashing - whether I agree with him on that or not. As for the Fuhrer figure, if you saw his recent version of The Wall tour (or video) he played it very well during that specific part of the show - a maniacal monster dressed in a black uniform rallying up the crowd, and even aiming a 'machine gun' at the audience picking off the ones that didn't fit with his logic or fit in with his agenda. Of course it was all fictional, but it was really dark and impressive at the same time. He even donned the uniform for Run Like Hell at Desert Trip, but taken out of context of The Wall concept, it seemed a bit absurd. Some in the audience who might not be familiar with all that might have thought he was being sincere and a complete lunatic, not realizing it was all an act! All good theater though, and he's recently stated his live shows are as much about theatrics as they are the music....and of course LOADS of politics.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I guess for me it is I'm rarely comfortable passing complete judgement on anything. I like Roger. Roger takes a stance and that's what I expect him to do. I tend to think things are too complex for me to take a position that won't move. I find you rarely reach solutions when you do. Of course, others have accused me of cowardice as a result. For me, there aren't good and bad guys. Good people make bad decisions and bad people will do good things. What's true of individuals is true of nations, philosophies, and religions. That said, I admire Roger's talent and his ability to challenge and provoke thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-11 01:02 by Rocky Dijon.

Well said Rocky, and now for something completely different...

Run-D.M.C. rapper wants to reunite Pink Floyd for collaboration

Run-Like Hell

"Matter of fact I wanna make Us and Them over, I think I'm gonna go to the studio right now and lay a beat down
so when Roger sees this interview he'll be like: "Yeah, we'd love to make Us and Them with you."'

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......