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Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: June 8, 2017 02:06

Quote
crholmstrom
I busted out "The Final Cut" today. I sure do like that album more now than when it first came out. Probably a better title would've been "The Final Straw" as far as Waters/Gilmour went. Brilliant songwriting though.

An excellent underrated album. Its not really "Pink Floyd" anymore, but its the perfect coupling of what the best of Roger and David's solo efforts are IMO. Great songwriting with very good musical ideas and some top soloing from David in just the right spots. That album is a gem when found and I always considered a better version of his inner demons than The Wall.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: June 8, 2017 02:22

Actually, the Wall wasn't Pink Floyd either -- just Waters, Gilmour, and Mason with a whole lot of supporting musicians. But at least Gilmour did have more of a hand in the musical direction with regards to singing and such. The last true Pink Floyd album was Animals.

The Final Cut is without a doubt Roger Waters' finest solo album.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: June 8, 2017 02:41

Quote
stonehearted
Actually, the Wall wasn't Pink Floyd either -- just Waters, Gilmour, and Mason with a whole lot of supporting musicians. But at least Gilmour did have more of a hand in the musical direction with regards to singing and such. The last true Pink Floyd album was Animals.

The Final Cut is without a doubt Roger Waters' finest solo album.

Oh, so true. Just saying The Wall has too many recognizable Pink Floyd songs to not be considered part of their true catalogue, even though it sounds nothing like Floyd.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 8, 2017 03:56

Quote
RollingFreak
Quote
stonehearted
Actually, the Wall wasn't Pink Floyd either -- just Waters, Gilmour, and Mason with a whole lot of supporting musicians. But at least Gilmour did have more of a hand in the musical direction with regards to singing and such. The last true Pink Floyd album was Animals.

The Final Cut is without a doubt Roger Waters' finest solo album.

Oh, so true. Just saying The Wall has too many recognizable Pink Floyd songs to not be considered part of their true catalogue, even though it sounds nothing like Floyd.

The Wall sounds nothing like Floyd?

Hmmm...not so sure about that - to me it's pure Floyd start to finish. The fact is, it was Waters, Gilmour, Mason, AND Wright first and foremost (though Wright was minimal)...along with a whole lot of supporting musicians. But I suppose that depends on what you consider the "sound of Floyd". Mostly written by Waters who also wrote most of the previous three albums, it has his stamp all over it. Gilmour as well contributed quite a bit, but even by his own admission he had been a "lazy" contributor to all of the albums during those years up to the Final Cut.

As for the true "Pink Floyd sound", some think it's the really first album with Syd Barret (and the bits of the second album he was on), and that everything that that came after sounds nothing like Floyd. It's all relative really, and I tend to divide the sound of Pink Floyd in to three basic categories: The groundbreaking legendary Syd Barret era, the Roger/Gilmour classic Rock era, and the somewhat meaningless post Roger era. I agree that the Final Cut should be considered a Waters solo album. Unlike other previous albums where he wrote most of it, he wrote most of it...well all of it actually, in this case he wrote all of it and was in full supreme dictator mode as far as the recording process. I don't think it's quite his best "solo album" though - Amused to Death and the new album are better in almost every way imo.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-08 04:27 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 8, 2017 04:25

Heads up for those in the Phoenix area, or those willing to travel there next week.
I received this email this morning, must be some poor sales going on there,
so you can now buy two for the price of one in the upper two levels. Bargain bin sales are happening!
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Friends,

As you know ROGER WATERS US + THEM is now on the road.

We have been able to open more seats and since it is so last minute, we are going to make it easy for you to buy tickets, as a thank you for supporting our shows over the years.

On Friday, June 9, at 10am,CLICK HERE and use the password BREATHE.

Tickets at the top two tiers will be available to you at a two for one price! There is an 8 ticket limit per person, and it will last as long as we have the tickets to fill the orders, so set your alarm!
This is one of the greatest shows we will ever have the pleasure of bringing to Phoenix, and we are thrilled to make this offer. Every seat in the building will have great SIGHT lines and audio clarity as this show features giant multi media screens and 360 degree quad sound to make for an evening you will never forget.
See you at the show!

New Album "Is This The Life We Really Want" out now

______________________________________________________________________________

*The top two tiers might not be the best seats in the house for most concerts, but in the case of this show (with all the visuals) they should be great.
And for the two for one price, a hard bargain to beat!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-08 04:28 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: June 8, 2017 10:34

Quote
Hairball
The Wall sounds nothing like Floyd?

Hmmm...not so sure about that - to me it's pure Floyd start to finish. The fact is, it was Waters, Gilmour, Mason, AND Wright first and foremost (though Wright was minimal)...along with a whole lot of supporting musicians.

Actually, Rick Wright was let go very early in the sessions and his input was wiped. None of this was ever made public until 1983 when Gilmour was interviewed in Circus magazine explaining that Wright was fired because he "wasn't earning his keep". Gilmour admitted in that interview that he and Roger played most of the keyboards on The Wall. Rick Wright was brought back -- as technically a hired hand, for appearances sake only -- for the 4 Wall shows they did in 1980. The Final Cut was the first time they went public as the Pink Three.

So, I suppose they could do a Pink Floyd reunion now with the 3 surviving members. With the Wall, they had 4 iconic songs from that album as staples on rock radio for years -- Another Brick, Run Like Hell, Young Lust, Comfortably Numb.

But, creatively, you can't do something new without "the architect" Rick Wright, whose idea it was to have that very special B-flat (or something) note in Us & Them, when they were originally just going to go back to a D (or was it A? or something) -- those little special touches that made Pink Floyd what it was.

Yes, you can talk about the "Syd Barrett" era, but listen to those solo albums, and if you can stand them, the outtakes -- a total lack of timing and musical instinct, not really a musician at all. Just an amateur painter who happened to be at art school with some real musicians.

Here's Rick Wright from the album before Dark Side, the song Stay: [www.youtube.com]

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 8, 2017 11:01

Rick was indespensable I would agree, and thankfully he was hired to play the shows for The Wall. Kind of rude treatment perhaps, but he was pushing too many buttons and on some sort of ego trip during the Wall sessions (demanding co-producer credits, etc) - hence he was sacked from the band. I don't recall reading his parts were completely erased! But no matter what sort of "architect" he may been, even his finesse with the keyboards couldn't help Pink Floyd after Roger left - the songs lacked in almost every way. Like a parody for the most part. And just for the record, they played quite a few more Wall shows than four - maybe you meant four cities. Seven dates in L.A. alone - two of which I was lucky to be at. They also played a run of shows in New York, London, and Dortmund, West Germany

As for Syd Barret, Piper at the Gates of Dawn is one of my all time favorite albums by any band - experimentally great psychedelic pop and rock songs, along with cutting edge guitar (for the period). He was more than just a painter, he was a creator of great songs - the lyrics and the music, and it was his vocals that were the most prominent on that album. The rest of the band simply followed the leader if you will, and I wouldn't necessarily consider Roger Waters and Nick Mason as "real musicians" during that period - they were all art/architecture students before forming the band. As for his solo albums, a bit iffy indeed, but those were recorded and released after he "lost the plot" so to speak. I believe it was Gilmour who even helped to produce one of them, but even he couldn't help!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-08 11:23 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: June 8, 2017 11:36

Quote
Hairball
Rick was indespensable I would agree, and thankfully he was hired to play the shows for The Wall. Kind of rude treatment perhaps, but he was pushing too many buttons and on some sort of ego trip during the Wall sessions (demanding co-producer credits, etc) - hence he was sacked from the band. I don't recall reading his parts were completely erased! But no matter what sort of "architect" he may been, even his finesse with the keyboards couldn't help Pink Floyd after Roger left - the songs lacked in almost every way. Like a parody for the most part. And just for the record, they played quite a few more Wall shows than four - maybe you meant four cities. Seven dates in L.A. alone - two of which I was lucky to be at. They also played a run of shows in New York, London, and Dortmund, West Germany

As for Syd Barret, Piper at the Gates of Dawn is one of my all time favorite albums by any band - experimentally great psychedelic pop and rock songs, along with cutting edge guitar (for the period). He was more than just a painter, he was a creator of great songs - the lyrics and the music, and it was his vocals that were the most prominent on that album. The rest of the band simply followed the leader if you will, and I wouldn't necessarily consider Roger Waters and Nick Mason as "real musicians" during that period - they were all art/architecture students before forming the band. As for his solo albums, a bit iffy indeed, but those were recorded and released after he "lost the plot" so to speak. I believe it was Gilmour who even helped to produce one of them, but even he couldn't help!
thumbs up

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 8, 2017 18:08

Quote
crholmstrom
Quote
Hairball
Rick was indespensable I would agree, and thankfully he was hired to play the shows for The Wall. Kind of rude treatment perhaps, but he was pushing too many buttons and on some sort of ego trip during the Wall sessions (demanding co-producer credits, etc) - hence he was sacked from the band. I don't recall reading his parts were completely erased! But no matter what sort of "architect" he may been, even his finesse with the keyboards couldn't help Pink Floyd after Roger left - the songs lacked in almost every way. Like a parody for the most part. And just for the record, they played quite a few more Wall shows than four - maybe you meant four cities. Seven dates in L.A. alone - two of which I was lucky to be at. They also played a run of shows in New York, London, and Dortmund, West Germany

As for Syd Barret, Piper at the Gates of Dawn is one of my all time favorite albums by any band - experimentally great psychedelic pop and rock songs, along with cutting edge guitar (for the period). He was more than just a painter, he was a creator of great songs - the lyrics and the music, and it was his vocals that were the most prominent on that album. The rest of the band simply followed the leader if you will, and I wouldn't necessarily consider Roger Waters and Nick Mason as "real musicians" during that period - they were all art/architecture students before forming the band. As for his solo albums, a bit iffy indeed, but those were recorded and released after he "lost the plot" so to speak. I believe it was Gilmour who even helped to produce one of them, but even he couldn't help!
thumbs up

It was getting late last night when I posted that (past midnight Pacific Time), so might be a little discombobulated, but there were a couple other things regarding Rick Wright I should add. Somewhere, I have a few of rock magazines dedicated solely to Pink Floyd and their history (Classic Rock, Mojo, etc.) collected through the years, and that's where most of my knowledge of the band comes from as far as interviews, album credits, etc.

So to add to the above, I believe Rick was the only "real" accomplished musician who was classically trained on the piano and could read music, etc. - so credit due to him. I also recall reading and interview somewhere with Rick where he talks about his heavy coke use and all around disinterest and lack of ideas for the band starting after the Animals album. For the recording of The Wall itself, and without digging through old magazine interviews, here's some info from wiki (with citations to sources) - The Wall.
_______________________________________________________________________

More problems became apparent when Waters's relationship with Wright broke down. The band were rarely in the studio together. Ezrin and Guthrie spliced Mason's previously recorded drum tracks together, and Guthrie also worked with Waters and Gilmour during the day, returning at night to record Wright's contributions. Wright, worried about the effect that the introduction of Ezrin would have on the band's internal relationships, was keen to have a producer's credit on the album (their albums up to that point had always stated "Produced by Pink Floyd").[43] Waters agreed to a trial period with Wright producing, after which he was to be given a producer's credit, but after a few weeks he and Ezrin expressed dissatisfaction with the keyboardist's methods. A confrontation with Ezrin led to Wright working only at nights. Gilmour also expressed his annoyance, complaining that Wright's lack of input was "driving us all mad",[44] and Ezrin later reflected: "it sometimes felt that Roger was setting him up to fail. Rick gets performance anxiety. You have to leave him alone to freeform, to create ..."[44] Wright had his own problems, a failing marriage and the onset of depression, exacerbated by his non-residency. The band's holidays were booked for August, after which they were to reconvene at Cherokee Studios in Los Angeles, but Columbia offered the band a better deal in exchange for a Christmas release of the album. Waters therefore increased the band's workload accordingly, booking time at the nearby Studio Miraval.[45] He also suggested recording in Los Angeles ten days earlier than agreed, and hiring another keyboardist to work alongside Wright, whose keyboard parts had not yet been recorded. Wright, however, refused to cut short his family holiday in Rhodes.[46]

Accounts of Wright's subsequent departure from the band differ. In his autobiography, Inside Out, Mason says that Waters called O'Rourke, who was travelling to the US on the QE2, and told him to have Wright out of the band by the time Waters arrived in LA to mix the album.[47] In another version recorded by a later historian of the band, Waters called O'Rourke and asked him to tell Wright about the new recording arrangements, to which Wright allegedly responded: "Tell Roger to @#$%& off ..."[41] Wright disagreed with this recollection, stating that the band had agreed to record only through the spring and early summer, and that he had no idea they were so far behind schedule. Mason later wrote that Waters was "stunned and furious",[45] and felt that Wright was not doing enough to help complete the album.[45] Gilmour was on holiday in Dublin when he learnt of Waters's ultimatum, and tried to calm the situation. He later spoke with Wright and gave him his support, but reminded him about his minimal contribution to the album.[48] Waters, however, insisted that Wright leave, or he would refuse to release The Wall. Several days later, worried about their financial situation, and the failing interpersonal relationships within the band, Wright quit. News of his departure was kept from the music press.[49] Although his name did not appear anywhere on the original album,[50][51] he was employed as a session musician on the band's subsequent The Wall tour.[52]

By August 1979 the running order was largely complete. Wright completed his duties at Cherokee Studios aided by session musicians Peter Wood and Fred Mandel, and Jeff Porcaro played drums in Mason's stead on "Mother".[51] His duties complete, Mason left the final mix to Waters, Gilmour, Ezrin and Guthrie, and travelled to New York to record his début solo album, Nick Mason's Fictitious Sports.[53] In advance of its release, technical constraints led to some changes being made to the running order and content of The Wall, with "What Shall We Do Now?" being replaced by the similar but shorter "Empty Spaces", and "Hey You" being moved from its original place at the end of side three, to the beginning. With the November 1979 deadline approaching, the band left the now-incorrect inner sleeves of the album unchanged.[54]

Mason's early drum sessions were performed in an open space on the top floor of Britannia Row Studios. The 16-track recordings from these sessions were mixed down and copied onto a 24-track master, as guide tracks for the rest of the band to play to. This gave the engineers greater flexibility,[nb 2] but also improved the audio quality of the final mix as the original 16-track drum recordings were finally synced to the 24-track master, and the duplicated guide tracks removed.[56] Ezrin later related the band's alarm at this method of working – they apparently viewed the erasure of material from the 24-track master as "witchcraft".[37]

While at Super Bear studios Waters agreed to Ezrin's suggestion that several tracks, including "Nobody Home", "The Trial" and "Comfortably Numb", should have an orchestral accompaniment. Michael Kamen, who had previously worked with David Bowie, was booked to oversee these arrangements, which were performed by musicians from the New York Philharmonic and New York Symphony Orchestras, and a choir from the New York City Opera.[57] Their sessions were recorded at CBS Studios in New York, although Pink Floyd were not present. Kamen eventually met the band once recording was complete.[58]

"Comfortably Numb" has its origins in Gilmour's debut solo album, and was the source of much argument between Waters and Gilmour.[24] Ezrin claimed that the song initially started life as "Roger's record, about Roger, for Roger", although he thought that it needed further work. Waters rewrote the song and added more lyrics for the chorus, but his "stripped-down and harder" recording was not to Gilmour's liking. The guitarist preferred Ezrin's "grander Technicolor, orchestral version", although Ezrin preferred Waters's version. Following a full-scale argument in a North Hollywood restaurant, the two compromised; the song's body eventually included the orchestral arrangement, with Gilmour's second and final guitar solo standing alone.[59]

______________________________________________________________________________


So while Wrights keyboard parts might have been wiped clean, I don't think it was Waters or Gilmour who played his parts, but rather it was some of the other hired hotshot studio musicians and/or producer Ezrin. Wright later said of his disinterest in the the recording sessions: "The rest of the band's children were young enough to stay with them in France but mine were older and had to go to school. I was missing my children terribly". Cracks in the ice became enormous gorges, and the writing was on the wall - the band was basically on it's deathbed at this point. The Final Cut - or "The Final Straw" as crholmstrom called it - was really the epitaph...a somber ending to a great band (unless you consider whatever crap came after that as still being Pink Floyd).

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Date: June 8, 2017 18:11

Keyboards on The Wall:

Bob Ezrin – piano, hammond organ, synthesizers, reed organ
James Guthrie – percussion; synthesizer; sound effects
Fred Mandel – Hammond organ on "In The Flesh?" and "In the Flesh"

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Happy24 ()
Date: June 8, 2017 18:21

Wow, such an interesting read on PF in this thred. Thanks a lot, Hairball! I personally appreciate the post-Waters Pink Floyd, since I like Dave a lot, prefer his current-day solo shows to Waters' by miles, mostly because I find Roger's lip-synching intolerable. That being said, I have seen Roger 4 times and when he comes to Europe the next year, I will surely see him again. But if there was Dave's and Roger's show on the same night, I wouldn't even think about going to see Roger. But yea, that is a matter of taste, nothing more. Anyway, thanks a lot for all the interesting info.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 8, 2017 18:21

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Keyboards on The Wall:

Bob Ezrin – piano, hammond organ, synthesizers, reed organ
James Guthrie – percussion; synthesizer; sound effects
Fred Mandel – Hammond organ on "In The Flesh?" and "In the Flesh"

Yes, just looked at the credits myself on the wiki page!
Ezrin and Guthrie were also co-producers of the album, and Fred Mandel I had to look up > Fred Mandell.
His "selected discography" and studio session work is impressive - from Alice Cooper to Elton John to Anthrax amongst others!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: June 8, 2017 19:33

Everything you just posted (which is an incredibly fascinating read even though I knew most of it) is why I always considered The Wall completely unrecognizable from the rest of their catalogue. First off, because the songs are shorter and not as jammy. They are clearly more focused, around a STORY and not a THEME, which Floyd had never really done. Secondly, its Roger in full dictator mode. Yes, after Dark Side he was basically leading the charge anyway, but it was still a "band". There were still communal ideas, Roger just wrote the songs. But 100% Richard and Nick were invaluable to Wish You Were Here and Animals. The Wall is almost glorified session musicians and Roger, cause thats nearly what it was.

More than most bands that group was very much a communal effort and it didn't work without all 4 of them. I do enjoy Piper, which is obviously Syd instead of David, but its a different feel. That, to me, is still Floyd cause it has the sounds they perfected or naturally started out as, but it is arguably a different band. After him, you couldn't lose any of those 4 cause they were all so integral to the sound. Somehow, live, Roger does kinda what McCartney does. He plays those songs, and I know its not the Beatles or Pink Floyd, but it just works. I feel like I'm seeing a legitimate representation of that material, for some reason. David, while also being completely legitimate... I'm very much aware that I'm just seeing him. Not that I see Roger for Jon Carin, but he just revels in the nostalgia I guess enough that I feel I'm getting Floyd. With David I know I'm getting a David solo show, which is great in itself, but I wouldn't see David and say I saw Floyd. I almost would with Roger, for whatever reason.

Pink Floyd was no different than most any other bands. After a good 10 years, the cracks started to show and they got sick of each other. You can almost count on one hand the bands that that DIDN'T happen to, and more importantly the ones that continued to make good music after their golden 10 year run. The band had done everything they wanted to do, and I don't know if there's anything they've done since (Roger solo, David solo, Waterless Floyd) that I'd call essential. Now I'm not a big McCartney fan solo, but I can't deny he had some successes that are too good to ignore, and John Lennon had a more than fine solo career. Waters and Gilmour, IMO, never got anywhere close to that, showing that unlike the Beatles who could do fine on their own, Floyd only worked when they were together, and their later music suffered cause of it.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 8, 2017 19:54

Even though Gilmour didn't have much writing input on The Wall (he never really did anyways on previous albums) he is all over it - whether vocally or his guitar playing, and he did have some say and give approval on the final product. The strength of all those classic Floyd albums was the core four musicians yes, but there was an *evolution starting with Dark Side of the Moon culminating in The Wall (unfortunatley for Rick he couldn't hang tough). Roger might have written most it, and the entire Wall concept was his, but he didn't really become the full dictator until The Final Cut which is 99.999% him.

As for Waters and Gilmour solo work (and post-Roger Pink Floyd), agree that none of it matches the strengths of their work together in the golden years (same could be said for Mick and Keith solo). But between the two, Roger's solo albums for the most part are far more interesting due to their lyrical content and overall superior songwriting - give or take a few duds here and there. Gilmour solo on the other hand can almost veer towards being elevator music - not hard on the ears and pleasant to listen to in a harmless way, but inferior lyrics and songwriting in general can come across as boring. Great guitar solos alone does not always equal great music imo.

*edit: Obviously the evolution started prior to Dark Side of the Moon, but it was that album when they truly became one voice - a driving force with all cylinders firing. And between those four classic golden era albums (Dark Side, Wish You Were Here, Animals, and The Wall), it's difficult for me to pick an absolute favorite as each has it strengths, and each are unique in their own ways. If forced to choose, I'd have to go with Dark Side as it was the first one that truly captivated me as a young fan back in the day. It's an all time classic from start to finish.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-08 20:09 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: June 8, 2017 21:22

Quote
Hairball
As for Waters and Gilmour solo work (and post-Roger Pink Floyd), agree that none of it matches the strengths of their work together in the golden years (same could be said for Mick and Keith solo). But between the two, Roger's solo albums for the most part are far more interesting due to their lyrical content and overall superior songwriting - give or take a few duds here and there. Gilmour solo on the other hand can almost veer towards being elevator music - not hard on the ears and pleasant to listen to in a harmless way, but inferior lyrics and songwriting in general can come across as boring. Great guitar solos alone does not always equal great music imo.

*edit: Obviously the evolution started prior to Dark Side of the Moon, but it was that album when they truly became one voice - a driving force with all cylinders firing. And between those four classic golden era albums (Dark Side, Wish You Were Here, Animals, and The Wall), it's difficult for me to pick an absolute favorite as each has it strengths, and each are unique in their own ways. If forced to choose, I'd have to go with Dark Side as it was the first one that truly captivated me as a young fan back in the day. It's an all time classic from start to finish.

We completely agree. Those albums are interchangeable as favorites to me. I've always said its similar to Hitchcock movies for me. Massive fan, and it sounds cliche but Psycho probably IS his best top to bottom film, so I hate saying its my favorite but its just so perfect. I think of Dark Side very similar to me. Wish You Were Here is probably my favorite just as personal preference, but to deny the perfection that is Dark Side is difficult. Same way my favorite Hitchcock film is probably Rear Window or Marnie, but can always watch Psycho and recognize its probably his best. And I never discount Animals, which in recent years is probably the album I revisit most and in the right mood is clearly my favorite of those 4.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: June 8, 2017 23:08


Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 8, 2017 23:39

Quote
stonehearted

Syd looks way out it during this transitional period...a shadow:

"Now there's a look in your eyes, like black holes in the sky..." Roger Waters would later write in Shine on You Crazy Diamond, along with "You were caught in the crossfire of childhood and stardom", and "You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon". as well as "Well you wore out your welcome with random precision...Come on you raver, you seer of visions, Come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine"

Kind of sad really, and in many ways reminds me of the toll drugs had on Brian towards the end of his time with the Stones.

One of Syd's very last songs he wrote and recorded for Pink Floyd (maybe the very last?) is equally sad and way out there:

From Jugband Blues (his sole contribution to second album Saucerful of Secrets):

"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear
That I'm not here..."

From wiki:

"Barrett, by the beginning of the recording sessions for A Saucerful of Secrets, was already shrinking into a delirious state of mind, exacerbated by his feelings of alienation from the rest of the band.[15] The common interpretation of the lyrics is that they reflect his schizophrenia[4] and it has been argued that they could also be read as a criticism of the other band members for forcing him out.[3] (Andrew) King said of the song: "The most alienated, extraordinary lyrics. It's not addressed to the band, it's addressed to the whole world. He was completely cut off."[5] (Peter) Jenner said "I think every psychiatrist should be made to listen to those songs ["Jugband Blues", "Scream Thy Last Scream" and "Vegetable Man"]. I think they should be part of the curriculum of every medical college along with those Van Gogh paintings like The Crows."[13]

More from from co-manager Peter Jenner:

"I wouldn't want anyone to have to go as mad and disturbed as Syd did to get that, but if you are going to go that disturbed give me something like that. That's great art."[13] Jenner had also called "Jugband Blues" "an extraordinary song, the ultimate self-diagnosis on a state of schizophrenia, [and] the portrait of a nervous breakdown."[13][14]


Then there was the song Vegetable Man written and recorded around the same time- the title says it all.
Unreleased until recently, a very bizarre tune to say the least.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

edit: I think that is the one of only (maybe the only) publicity photos of Pink Floyd to feature Waters, Wright, Mason, Gilmour, AND Syd.
And I know they brought in Gilmour to cover for Syd's haphazard playing and behavior at this point, but imagine if Syd could have kept it together just a little bit from this point on and continued as a member of the band - two guitar players!! Instead he sunk lower into the abyss, hanging by a thread, a couple of bizarre solo albums, and eventually disappearing from the public eye completely.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-08 23:51 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: June 9, 2017 00:11

They only played five shows as Pink Five in January 1968, and none of them were recorded or filmed.

Supposedly Barrett would follow the band around for about a year afterward, attending gigs as an audience member and just standing there and glaring up at Gilmour.

If you see some of those films of 1968 live and French television appearances that survive it strikes you how similar to Barrett Gilmour is sounding both with vocals and guitar. Sometimes you actually have to look and listen really closely to make sure that it isn't actually Barrett.

So, for awhile they had the Barrett sound but without the charismatic front man.

In the 2001 made for TV special The Pink Floyd and Syd Barrett Story, Peter Jenner gives a less than flattering appraisal of Vegetable Man, mentioning that he was there when Syd was writing it in the front hall of his house and that it was basically just a description of himself, what he was wearing, etc., just hastily scribbled out because he needed a song for that night's band recording session.

Another one from that time that's quite striking and still not officially released is Scream Thy Last Scream. It's quite something to hear this song, and Syd Barrett's work overall, on mushrooms -- it's like the toy chest in your childhood room has exploded and everything in it has come to technicolor cartoon life and is floating wildly about, and yourself along with it.

Scream Thy Last Scream: [vimeo.com]

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 9, 2017 01:06

Yes have heard that - a friend of mine loaded a giant passport style flash drive with nearly every single Pink Floyd boot,oddity, etc. in existence several years ago (he's the ultimate diehard/collector)- from the beginning all the way up to the latter day era - video as well (including the early Gilmour stuff). It would take me a lifetime to get through it all with my brains still intact.

" It's quite something to hear this song, and Syd Barrett's work overall, on mushrooms, it's like the toy chest in your childhood room has exploded and everything in it has come to technicolor cartoon life and is floating wildly about, and yourself along with it".

grinning smiley Nice description!

Listening again right now...wow....grinning smiley...it's almost nightmarishly creepy...eye popping smiley


edit: Speaking of mushrooms, at the second Wall show, 1980, my brother and I were frying heavily...the rest is history!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-09 01:12 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: June 9, 2017 01:19



MOJO 284 --- July 2017

ROCKMAN

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 9, 2017 01:35

I was going to quote the line from 'Picture That' but I see the reviewer beat me to it.
Fair review - basically saying not everyone's cup of tea. But don't be completely misled by the review in to thinking it's a total somber and minimal affair
as there is some electric guitar, along with some bombastic grandiosity sprinkled throughout - including Smell the Roses and Picture That that the writer mentions.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: June 9, 2017 01:48

Each to his own ... but I wouldn't let it anywhere near my stereo ...

ROCKMAN

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: potus43 ()
Date: June 9, 2017 02:26

I do not understand anyone with a conscience can go see this creep

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: June 9, 2017 02:32

Let him reap the seeds he sews.......

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: June 9, 2017 02:34

PLO is OK with RW...

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: June 9, 2017 04:35

Quote
stonehearted
Another one from that time that's quite striking and still not officially released is Scream Thy Last Scream. It's quite something to hear this song, and Syd Barrett's work overall, on mushrooms -- it's like the toy chest in your childhood room has exploded and everything in it has come to technicolor cartoon life and is floating wildly about, and yourself along with it.
Scream and Vegetable Man were actually both just released on Floyd's new expansive box set The Early Years. Really cool box. I only got one disc (the one with an entire Man And The Journey concert) but it seems to be a really good collection. Almost too expansive being at 16 discs, but it did release some stuff that hadn't been out officially like Scream, etc.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 9, 2017 04:36

Quote
Rockman
Each to his own ... but I wouldn't let it anywhere near my stereo ...

Somehow, I figured as much Rockman. grinning smiley

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: June 9, 2017 05:19

Quote
RollingFreak
Scream and Vegetable Man were actually both just released on Floyd's new expansive box set The Early Years. Really cool box. I only got one disc (the one with an entire Man And The Journey concert) but it seems to be a really good collection. Almost too expansive being at 16 discs, but it did release some stuff that hadn't been out officially like Scream, etc.
Oh, that's right! I'd forgotten about that, because I opted for the cheaper single disc -- or was it a double? (can't find my copy at the moment)

How about Lucy Leave, is that there, too? Are they nicely remastered?

I like the remastering Dave Gilmour did for the 2010 compilation disc An Introduction to Syd Barrett, and Storm Thorgerson did the cover so it has that classic Pink Floyd look:

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 9, 2017 05:36

I'm still holding out on the prices to drop drastically on those individual box sets.
Still a nice alternative than the gigantic box set they were pushing for nearly $400 or $500. eye popping smiley

I settled for the two disc set (The Early Years, 1967-1972)for under $15 when released though.


Here's info. on individual box 1965-67 Cambridge St/ation - Pink Floyd..the price still hovering a bit high at $48.00.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: June 9, 2017 08:38

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
RollingFreak
Scream and Vegetable Man were actually both just released on Floyd's new expansive box set The Early Years. Really cool box. I only got one disc (the one with an entire Man And The Journey concert) but it seems to be a really good collection. Almost too expansive being at 16 discs, but it did release some stuff that hadn't been out officially like Scream, etc.
Oh, that's right! I'd forgotten about that, because I opted for the cheaper single disc -- or was it a double? (can't find my copy at the moment)

How about Lucy Leave, is that there, too? Are they nicely remastered?

I'm not sure. I haven't heard the whole thing. I believe thats one of those "first tracks" things they put out a year ago or so on Record Store Day and is now here. I'm guessing everything on there is in the best quality they have it in, I don't know why it wouldn't be. The cheaper 2 disc version was good but missed a lot. Again, I specifically wanted the Man And The Journey concert so for that you really needed just one of the full discs. Took a while to get, but they finally released it all separately after a year or so. So now its a bit easier to get the stuff you want (early Barrett period, Atom Heart Mother era, etc) and I do think they tried to get some of the last things hardcores have been clamoring for.

Also, I know we're kind of past that discussion now, but the similarities between Syd and Brian are eerie. They may have been totally different people with totally different problems, but as two "leaders" of these bands who totally lost their @#$%& minds and almost voluntarily left their bands they are so similar. Thankfully Syd didn't die like Brian did, although in terms of a music career he basically did and its sad for both of them cause Brian and Syd had so much god damn talent. There's something amazing about Barret's weirdest stuff. It may not be "great", but no one does crazy like Barrett does on Bike or Scream Thy Last Scream. What's also insane though I've always thought about Floyd was how much David tried to help. And how much Syd let him. I know it wasn't malicious, but David still replaced him in the band. He never seemed to have any resentment for that. And Dave, and Roger, really tried their hardest to help me too which I always thought was nice.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-09 08:52 by RollingFreak.

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