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Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:03

Some things never change....

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: July 11, 2018 07:18

Quote
SomeGuy
Some things never change....
Lol I mean seriously, WTF.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 11, 2018 08:50

Lol...what, you don't like caveman music?
The caveman story was in response to SomeGuy's comment: "Whether music was initially also a platform for critical opinion against society / politics.. I doubt that, sorry".
I kind of went off on a caveman tangent (lol) saying who really knows what the cavemen's intentions were with their music. Considering the oldest musical instrument ever found is 40.0000 years old from the prehistoric paleolithic era, one can only wonder what kind of jam sessions they had back then and for what purposes. I'm thinking that SomeGuy's comment above that "some things never change" was in response to the possible purposes that music had in the caveman's lives I mentioned - worship, war, love, fun, etc. - some of the same purposes that it has today.
_____________________________________________________________

Edit: Just remembered this funky hit from 1972 which actually made it to #6 on billboard hot 100:

Jimmy Castor Bunch - Troglodyte (Cave Man)




--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-11 09:15 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 11, 2018 09:47

But enough with the speculating about Caveman music, and back on topic...

Roger Waters at Birmingham Arena was 'an overwhelming audio-visual assault' - review
By Sean Hewitt, 10 JUL 2018

Roger Waters at Birmingham

At times, during the overwhelming audio-visual assault of this epic arena show, I wondered just where Roger Waters gets the energy. Not so much for putting on this lavish spectacle - with its lasers, flying pigs and hovering power stations - but for the searing rage at the state of the world that so obviously sustains it.

Roger's rage is nothing new. It produced the classic run of Pink Floyd albums - through The Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals and The Wall - he masterminded during the 70s. It then fuelled one of the most ill-tempered splits in rock history.

He's 74 now and if at times he misses the melodic cushion his former mates provided you'd never notice. He still plays the old songs. After all, in nearly every case, he wrote 'em.

He proved that point from the start when, we heard the tape-montage crescendo of Speak To Me and there the band was, with a note-perfect Breathe to kick off a virtual run-through of Dark Side's first half, with the insistent pulse, roar and twin bass frenzy of One Of These Days (a brilliant replacement for the On The Run travel sequence) the only intrusion.

With their platinum blonde wigs and proto-glam make-up, backing singers Jess Wolfe and Holly Laessig, of indie band Lucius, already stood out from the black-clad musos around them, but their soaring gospel diva vocals on The Great Gig In The Sky brought an early ovation.

Another oldie, Waters' peerless Welcome To The Machine, heralded a handful of selections from last year's album Is This The Life We Really Want? Deja Vu is (ironically, given the title) too over-familiar, both musically and lyrically, to leave much of an impression but The Last Refugee, beautifully performed in sync with an emotive video backdrop, was stunning, a soaring spine-tingler which brought me close to tears. After that, the vituperative Picture That blasted away the cobwebs before he crippled us again with a lovely Wish You Were Here.

The first half ended with a party of Birmingham schoolchildren coming on stage to sing the "We don't need no education" chorus of Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2. As this was a Roger Waters concert, they arrived wearing orange mini-Guantanamo Bay prisoner outfits with the heads covered by hoods. Welcome to the show, kids!

Part Two opened with helicopter noises, dogs barking - and an enormous Battersea Power Station cutting the hall in two down the centre aisle, bringing the sleeve of Floyd's Animal album to the front of our minds. The lengthy Dogs was truly marvellous, its dissection of the middle-management mindset as acute - and relevant - as ever.

Pigs (Three Different Ones) was another thing entirely. Now completely reshaped as an all-out attack on Donald Trump, it was accompanied by projected imagery showing Trump in a nappy, in garish make-up and with what can only be described as a micropenis. If you think that sounds disturbing, wait until you see it projected on the side of a giant replica of Battersea Power Station with an enormous inflatable pig flying over your head.

More importantly, however, this was the most powerful musically Waters has ever been. Propelled by the muscular drumming of Beck sideman Joey Waronker, guitarists Dave Kilminster and Jonathan Wilson perfectly replicated David Gilmour's biting tone (as well as Gilmour's vocal parts). On keyboards, Jon Carin, who has played with the Waters-less Floyd and proved he could also play a mean lap steel guitar, and Bo Koster made sure the layered Floyd sound was perfectly reproduced.

Far more than the heavily programmed tour for The Wall, the wider variety of this show gave the music far more room to breathe and frequently left the original Floyd versions behind in the dust. My only regret was there was so little from either Waters' earlier solo material or from his Floyd swansong The Final Cut, a record which sounds more impressive and prescient with each passing year.

The inevitable Money - now with Donald Trump's incredulous "I won!" looped in with the cash registers - was followed by a mesmerising Us And Them.

The closing Brain Damage and Eclipse brought the crowd to their feet, hollering the words as laser beams arced into a multi-coloured prism in front of the stage.

It was all rather marvellous. One encore later, an elegiac Comfortably Numb, and he was gone.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: noughties ()
Date: July 11, 2018 12:09

Why doesn`t he just reunite Pink Floyd when he`s so dependent on those songs?

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: ROLLINGSTONE ()
Date: July 11, 2018 14:06

Quote
noughties
Why doesn`t he just reunite Pink Floyd when he`s so dependent on those songs?


Dave Gilmour is not interested.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: July 11, 2018 14:52

Quote
ROLLINGSTONE
Quote
noughties
Why doesn`t he just reunite Pink Floyd when he`s so dependent on those songs?


Dave Gilmour is not interested.

And Richard Wright is dead so its not really Pink Floyd. They're better off touring separately. At a time it would have been really cool. Now, especially without Wright, I think it would be more gimmicky than anything. What would be incredible is if Waters and Gilmour toured together and that to me would be as good and satisfying as Floyd reuniting but clearly besides a few one offs David doesn't have time for that either. And I respect it. Him and Robert Plant get it. But god damn, Waters has never had a more perfect musical partner than Gilmour and to see that live would reduce me to tears.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: deardoctor ()
Date: July 11, 2018 14:56

Quote
RollingFreak
Quote
ROLLINGSTONE
Quote
noughties
Why doesn`t he just reunite Pink Floyd when he`s so dependent on those songs?


Dave Gilmour is not interested.

And Richard Wright is dead so its not really Pink Floyd. They're better off touring separately. At a time it would have been really cool. Now, especially without Wright, I think it would be more gimmicky than anything. What would be incredible is if Waters and Gilmour toured together and that to me would be as good and satisfying as Floyd reuniting but clearly besides a few one offs David doesn't have time for that either. And I respect it. Him and Robert Plant get it. But god damn, Waters has never had a more perfect musical partner than Gilmour and to see that live would reduce me to tears.

Yes indeed. I saw waters this year and gilmour in 2016. There is always the other part missing...

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: July 11, 2018 15:04

The Live 8 reunion in 2005 will have to suffice. That was truly amazing...makes my eyes well up every time I watch it, especially the crowd reactions.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 11, 2018 20:19

Quote
deardoctor
Quote
RollingFreak
Quote
ROLLINGSTONE
Quote
noughties
Why doesn`t he just reunite Pink Floyd when he`s so dependent on those songs?


Dave Gilmour is not interested.

And Richard Wright is dead so its not really Pink Floyd. They're better off touring separately. At a time it would have been really cool. Now, especially without Wright, I think it would be more gimmicky than anything. What would be incredible is if Waters and Gilmour toured together and that to me would be as good and satisfying as Floyd reuniting but clearly besides a few one offs David doesn't have time for that either. And I respect it. Him and Robert Plant get it. But god damn, Waters has never had a more perfect musical partner than Gilmour and to see that live would reduce me to tears.

Yes indeed. I saw waters this year and gilmour in 2016. There is always the other part missing...

Indeed one is less without the other, just as most other bands/artists - Jagger/Richards, Plant/Page, the Davies Bros, the Gallagher Bros, Lennon/McCartney/Harrison/Ringo (though Georges first solo album ranks with the best), et al. And to RollingFreaks point that Davide Gilmour "gets it", the same could be said for Roger Waters as he's never wanted to reunite "Pink Floyd" for anything other than Live 8 which was a one off for charity. In fact it was Waters who quit the band and demanded the name "Pink Floyd" be put to rest which didn't quite happen the way he wanted for better or worse (depending on who you ask). Post-Live 8, it was Gilmour who approached Waters to join him on stage at a small charity event a few years ago, but not as Pink Floyd. As a return favor, Roger asked Gilmour to join him in London to grace Comfortably Numb at one of Roger's solo Wall shows. While Gilmour flubbed some of his lines and his solo left a bit to be desired, by most accounts it was a sight to behold. That's as close to a reunion that will probably ever be from this point on, and at least it seems they're on relatively good terms considering the venom that went on between them for many years. Recently Nick Mason is playing small pub shows with a side band playing old and relatively obscure early Pink Floyd songs, and will be expanding the tour to larger venues selling tickets at high prices. While many seem to enjoy it, seems like a glorified tribute band if you ask me - but he was the drummer so maybe "tribute" is a bit strong.

Quote
noughties
Why doesn`t he just reunite Pink Floyd when he`s so dependent on those songs?

Not gonna happen, and without Rick it's impossible anyways.
As to why he's so "dependent" on Pink Floyd songs, from the review above:

"Roger's rage is nothing new. It produced the classic run of Pink Floyd albums - through The Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals and The Wall - he masterminded during the 70s".

"He's 74 now and if at times he misses the melodic cushion his former mates provided you'd never notice. He still plays the old songs. After all, in nearly every case, he wrote 'em".


And finally this praiseworthy opinion:

"Far more than the heavily programmed tour for The Wall, the wider variety of this show gave the music far more room to breathe and frequently left the original Floyd versions behind in the dust".

Evidently many feel the same based on various reviews out there. But having seen the original band twice back in the day, and having seen this current tour several times, and knowing the extreme perfectionist versions on the studio albums, can't say I agree with that opinion in any - in fact I think it's nonsense. That being said, the current band he has is no doubt amazing. For all the times I've seen Roger solo tours throughout the years, this is the best band he's ever had imo.


PS - And like Neil Young, at least Roger plays alot of new material during his shows unlike other bands who completely live in the past and are simply resting on their laurels.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-11 20:32 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: July 11, 2018 20:44

Quote
Hairball
Quote
deardoctor
Quote
RollingFreak
Quote
ROLLINGSTONE
Quote
noughties
Why doesn`t he just reunite Pink Floyd when he`s so dependent on those songs?


Dave Gilmour is not interested.

And Richard Wright is dead so its not really Pink Floyd. They're better off touring separately. At a time it would have been really cool. Now, especially without Wright, I think it would be more gimmicky than anything. What would be incredible is if Waters and Gilmour toured together and that to me would be as good and satisfying as Floyd reuniting but clearly besides a few one offs David doesn't have time for that either. And I respect it. Him and Robert Plant get it. But god damn, Waters has never had a more perfect musical partner than Gilmour and to see that live would reduce me to tears.

Yes indeed. I saw waters this year and gilmour in 2016. There is always the other part missing...

Indeed one is less without the other, just as most other bands/artists - Jagger/Richards, Plant/Page, the Davies Bros, the Gallagher Bros, Lennon/McCartney/Harrison/Ringo (though Georges first solo album ranks with the best), et al. And to RollingFreaks point that Davide Gilmour "gets it", the same could be said for Roger Waters as he's never wanted to reunite "Pink Floyd" for anything other than Live 8 which was a one off for charity. In fact it was Waters who quit the band and demanded the name "Pink Floyd" be put to rest which didn't quite happen the way he wanted for better or worse (depending on who you ask). Post-Live 8, it was Gilmour who approached Waters to join him on stage at a small charity event a few years ago, but not as Pink Floyd. As a return favor, Roger asked Gilmour to join him in London to grace Comfortably Numb at one of Roger's solo Wall shows. While Gilmour flubbed some of his lines and his solo left a bit to be desired, by most accounts it was a sight to behold. That's as close to a reunion that will probably ever be from this point on, and at least it seems they're on relatively good terms considering the venom that went on between them for many years. Recently Nick Mason is playing small pub shows with a side band playing old and relatively obscure early Pink Floyd songs, and will be expanding the tour to larger venues selling tickets at high prices. While many seem to enjoy it, seems like a glorified tribute band if you ask me - but he was the drummer so maybe "tribute" is a bit strong.

Wow, I actually had no idea Nick was doing that. I could understand why it seems like a tribute band, which I don't like, but if it has an original member and its songs NO ONE plays then I could give a pass to that. And actually it sounds really cool. If that came anywhere near me I'd probably have to go. It'll never be Floyd, but to hear all those great early songs played by Nick in presumably a small place would be incredible.

I agree Roger was anti Floyd as well for awhile, but after Live 8 it became Gilmour's albatross. Which is fine. But Roger became very open to it so I wouldn't put him in the same category as Gilmour or Plant. Roger was no longer the one saying no, and he might not have ever said it but from the way he spoke I don't think he would have turned down a tour (even though all I remember was charity stuff, but I think he was ready to get Floyd back up again). Regardless, I am happy we got Live 8. It was perfect and as long as a band comes back together ONCE for a serious effort (Floyd with Live 8, Talking Heads at their Hall Of Fame, Zeppelin at O2) I am admittedly more at peace. I didn't see them, but if I really wanted to I could have been there so thats as good as I can hope for. Floyd without Wright wouldn't be the same. I was devastated when he passed.

As for Roger playing Floyd, 100% he should. He wrote all the damn songs as you point out. It would be foolish not to and I consider it more honest than a lot of other former members of bands that play their old hits solo. With Roger it works and feels right.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 11, 2018 20:59

Quote
RollingFreak
But Roger became very open to it so I wouldn't put him in the same category as Gilmour or Plant. Roger was no longer the one saying no, and he might not have ever said it but from the way he spoke I don't think he would have turned down a tour (even though all I remember was charity stuff, but I think he was ready to get Floyd back up again).

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion. And not doubting your feelings or intuition, but I honestly can never imagine Roger Waters Waters wanting to get Pink Floyd back together again after Live 8.
When you say "Roger became very open to it" and "from the way he spoke I don't think he would have turned down a tour", is there something specific he said somewhere that lead you to believe this? Trying not to sound like a jerk lol, but that's something that I've never perceived in any of his interviews.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-11 21:01 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: July 11, 2018 21:14

Quote
Hairball
Quote
RollingFreak
But Roger became very open to it so I wouldn't put him in the same category as Gilmour or Plant. Roger was no longer the one saying no, and he might not have ever said it but from the way he spoke I don't think he would have turned down a tour (even though all I remember was charity stuff, but I think he was ready to get Floyd back up again).

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion. And not doubting your feelings or intuition, but I honestly can never imagine Roger Waters Waters wanting to get Pink Floyd back together again after Live 8.
When you say "Roger became very open to it" and "from the way he spoke I don't think he would have turned down a tour", is there something specific he said somewhere that lead you to believe this? Trying not to sound like a jerk lol, but that's something that I've never perceived in any of his interviews.

As always, I could be totally wrong. I don't have specific quotes to cite or anything. I do KNOW he talked about that he would be open to getting the band back together for a good charity or something. I'm 90% positive he said that. Whereas again, Gilmour NEVER entertained anything to my knowledge. Maybe we just have different perceptions, and I'd also say I haven't heard Roger ever consider it after Richard died. I still think he might have, but I don't remember seeing him push it. But I remember after Live 8 either it was media or him saying he looked like he was dying to be up there with them, mouthing every word, and clearly relished that moment. The animosity he seemed to have with them was completely gone whereas they all seemed more hesitant, Gilmour specifically.

Who knows. It never happened, but I felt Gilmour actively shut down reunion rumors ala Plant whereas Roger seemed to take the Never Say Never approach and seemed like if asked HE was gonna be the one to say no. Basically taking the Jimmy Page route of "you'd have to ask ____." I personally got the sense after Live 8 Roger was up for it and David was not. His attitude towards Floyd 100% changed, IMO, after that show. Even though I also know rehearsals for Live 8 had their share of tension.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 11, 2018 21:27

Fair enough if that's the impression you have, but still don't think he would have pushed it in any way. After all, his Dark Side of the Moon solo tour did great, and his solo tour of the Wall was record breaking.

Via wiki: "It was the second-highest-grossing concert tour in North America in 2010 and the third-highest-grossing concert tour worldwide as of 2013.[7] As of 2013, the tour holds the record for being the highest-grossing tour for a solo musician, surpassing the previous record holder, Madonna"

Not sure he would trade any of that success in if it meant having to deal with former band mates for an extended amount of time - especially Gilmour. Maybe for another charity show here and there, but nothing really beyond that.

On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that the post Waters Pink Floyd (The Division Bell and Momentary Lapse of Reason era) would have welcomed Roger back in a heart beat to help in the songwriting department- but that's just speculation and maybe completely wrong - they both pretty much hated each others guts.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Dan ()
Date: July 11, 2018 21:30

Hearing Roger cough and choke his words out between the songs at Desert Trip made me wish he mimed the stage banter too.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: mtaylor ()
Date: July 11, 2018 22:51

Quote
SomeGuy
Quote
mtaylor
Saw Waters in Hyde Park. Great show, great music and great production with the limits an outdoor ahow has. I am just very thankful to musicians in their 60'ies snd 70'ies still around and wanting to entertain us.

The day Eric, Waters, Santana, Winwood, Stones and Macca etc. are not around anymore, the world will be much poorer.... Hence, I take as many concerts as I can.

As for politics.... all musicisns should speak frealy no matter who they criticise... music was initially also a platform for critical opinion against society / politics and that should continue.... cheers

Indeed, Im grateful for the older artists we can still enjoy. Most of them could have simply retired you know, who still works at 74??
All musicians should speak their minds freely, but then all listeners are free to have their opinion abou them also.
Art that gets too political often gets tainted by the triviality of it all, dont you think? And why would we want to turn to musicians for that anyway.
Whether music was initially also a platform for critical opinion against society / politics.. I doubt that, sorry.

When I mentioned music as a platform for critical opinion against society / politics, I was more thinking about the 50-70 area. And not cavemen as somebody else suggested. "We shall overcome"

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 12, 2018 00:18

Quote
mtaylor
Quote
SomeGuy
Quote
mtaylor
Saw Waters in Hyde Park. Great show, great music and great production with the limits an outdoor ahow has. I am just very thankful to musicians in their 60'ies snd 70'ies still around and wanting to entertain us.

The day Eric, Waters, Santana, Winwood, Stones and Macca etc. are not around anymore, the world will be much poorer.... Hence, I take as many concerts as I can.

As for politics.... all musicisns should speak frealy no matter who they criticise... music was initially also a platform for critical opinion against society / politics and that should continue.... cheers

Indeed, Im grateful for the older artists we can still enjoy. Most of them could have simply retired you know, who still works at 74??
All musicians should speak their minds freely, but then all listeners are free to have their opinion abou them also.
Art that gets too political often gets tainted by the triviality of it all, dont you think? And why would we want to turn to musicians for that anyway.
Whether music was initially also a platform for critical opinion against society / politics.. I doubt that, sorry.

When I mentioned music as a platform for critical opinion against society / politics, I was more thinking about the 50-70 area. And not cavemen as somebody else suggested. "We shall overcome"

Haha sorry about that mtaylor - I guess I took your comment "initially" literally and a bit too far back in time to the prehistoric era. winking smiley
Anyhow, agree that critical opinions against society / politics in music (and any form of art) should continue, just as listeners have the right to agree or disagree.
And while I don't agree with all of Waters' rantings and ravings, everyone has a right to voice their opinions - whether it's he, Springsteen, Bono, you, me, or anyone else.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Date: July 12, 2018 13:56

Quote
keefriff99
The Live 8 reunion in 2005 will have to suffice. That was truly amazing...makes my eyes well up every time I watch it, especially the crowd reactions.

Yep, quite agree.......the late running of the show, being in Hyde Park at close to midnight in the warm air as the 4 of them performed together was quite surreal, emotional, uplifting, there's someone in my head and it's not me......

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: July 12, 2018 15:38

Cool official video of "Pigs (Three Different Ones)":

Pigs (Three Different Ones)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-07-12 21:25 by keefriff99.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: July 12, 2018 21:06

Quote
keefriff99
Cool official video of "Pigs (Three Different Ones)":

[www.youtube.com]

Link not working above, but I assume you posted this one from Mexico City, 20016 with the old band?
Whatever the case, this is fantastic...pigs everywhere...on the screeens and floating through the air.
Almost feel sorry for the inflatable one that gets devoured by the crowd ha...

Roger Waters - "Pigs (Three Different Ones)"




--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: July 12, 2018 21:14

Quote
Hairball
Quote
SomeGuy
Quote
mtaylor
As for politics.... all musicians should speak freely no matter who they criticize... music was initially also a platform for critical opinion against society / politics and that should continue.... cheers

All musicians should speak their minds freely, but then all listeners are free to have their opinion about them also.
Art that gets too political often gets tainted by the triviality of it all, don't you think? And why would we want to turn to musicians for that anyway.
Whether music was initially also a platform for critical opinion against society / politics.. I doubt that, sorry.

Anyhow, agree that critical opinions against society / politics in music (and any form of art) should continue, just as listeners have the right to agree or disagree.
And while I don't agree with all of Waters' rantings and ravings, everyone has a right to voice their opinions - whether it's he, Springsteen, Bono, you, me, or anyone else.


Well said. No one should be silenced - even people who are ideologically opposed to us. Freedom of speech should always be protected. Cheers.

Re: OT: Roger Waters 2017/2018
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: July 12, 2018 21:21

Quote
Hairball
Quote
keefriff99
Cool official video of "Pigs (Three Different Ones)":

[www.youtube.com]

Link not working above, but I assume you posted this one from Mexico City, 20016 with the old band?
Whatever the case, this is fantastic...pigs everywhere...on the screeens and floating through the air.
Almost feel sorry for the inflatable one that gets devoured by the crowd ha...

Roger Waters - "Pigs (Three Different Ones)"

Yep, that's the one. Don't understand why the link grayed out.

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