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the stones have never made a bad album,some are better than others but even the latter day ones don't suck,they're just low points for what is the best catalogue in rock and roll.
black and blue is perfect the way it is-it does what all of the albums do,capture that exact moment in time.in black and blue you see in the songs themselves the transition from mick taylor to ronnie.other people may have played guitar on it but the real story of the record is the start of the richards/wood guitar weave and the more roots sound that morphed into some girls.
if you listen to it without wishing it were another exile or let it bleed and just take it for what it is,it's a really good record.
of course it shouldn't have been a double album-luckily it wasn't the digital age or they would've thrown all kinds of half baked songs and tracks that didn't fit together on all the albums and weakened the entire catalogue.
No way. Those songs are different and for the better of it. They show diversity. It can't be 4/4 rock and roll all the time.
no,they got it perfect. worried about you and slave ended up right where they belonged-on tattoo you.
cherry oh baby was the bands first recorded reggae ,melody was a great groove song and hot stuff, people forget[or weren't around]was a number one hit single that was all over the radio.
it's funny how albums like this are looked at now as some obscure throwaway in the stones career when in reality black and blue was the number one album in america for a few weeks in 1976.
That's because you can't find a failure in the Stones' catalog like almost any other artist, their lowest charting studio album since 1964 is #5 so you should go for the artistic point of view.
Eerrr... No.
It's Only RNR is a lot weaker. They sound tired and bored on that record.
I like IORR much better. They only songs I don't really care for are Luxury and If You Really Want To Be My Friend.
I don't care for over half of Black And Blue. Black And Blue is better than Emotional Rescue.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-14 02:21 by boogaloojef.
If "Slavef" and "Worried about You" were on "black and blue", the day you would have listen to the Hot Stuff and Cherry oh baby" as outtakes, you would said: why they didn't put both songs on the LP instead of Slavef" and "Worried about You".
Some people always think that outtakes are better than released tracks.
. They are the musicians and I think there was good reasons choosing these tracks.
Exactly. There will always be those people who thinks 'what we didn't get was the best'. It's some kind of inadequate attitude towards the artists, which is very unfortunate. The records are what they are. They are the finished product. Take it or leave it.
GHS is weaker as well, imo.
Goats Head Soup and It's Only Rock 'N' Roll are both better than Black & Blue.
So there is the thread on here that Slave might be the best song the Stones released since 1980 but it shouldn't have been included on Black & Blue? That makes no sense.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-15 02:24 by boogaloojef.
However, the musicians do not always get everything right or all their albums would be get great reviews and sell millions. Black & Blue is not universally thought of as great album. Most reviews I have read consider it average to slightly below average. My opinion is pretty much the same. The Stones are arguably my favorite group but not all of their albums or songs are excellent. Unfortunately quite a few of the weaker ones ended up on Black & Blue.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-15 02:30 by boogaloojef.
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Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: April 13, 2017 19:37
Start Me Up as a Reggae Song!! 
Good they didn't do it
Good they didn't do itRe: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 13, 2017 19:40
Quote
HonkeyTonkFlash
Perfect as is....
the stones have never made a bad album,some are better than others but even the latter day ones don't suck,they're just low points for what is the best catalogue in rock and roll.
black and blue is perfect the way it is-it does what all of the albums do,capture that exact moment in time.in black and blue you see in the songs themselves the transition from mick taylor to ronnie.other people may have played guitar on it but the real story of the record is the start of the richards/wood guitar weave and the more roots sound that morphed into some girls.
if you listen to it without wishing it were another exile or let it bleed and just take it for what it is,it's a really good record.
of course it shouldn't have been a double album-luckily it wasn't the digital age or they would've thrown all kinds of half baked songs and tracks that didn't fit together on all the albums and weakened the entire catalogue.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: April 13, 2017 19:45
What they should have done is gotten rid of songs like Cherry Oh Baby, Melody and Hot Stuff and added Slave and Worried About You for example.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: April 13, 2017 20:00
Quote
boogaloojef
What they should have done is gotten rid of songs like Cherry Oh Baby, Melody and Hot Stuff and added Slave and Worried About You for example.
No way. Those songs are different and for the better of it. They show diversity. It can't be 4/4 rock and roll all the time.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 13, 2017 20:18
Quote
boogaloojef
What they should have done is gotten rid of songs like Cherry Oh Baby, Melody and Hot Stuff and added Slave and Worried About You for example.
no,they got it perfect. worried about you and slave ended up right where they belonged-on tattoo you.
cherry oh baby was the bands first recorded reggae ,melody was a great groove song and hot stuff, people forget[or weren't around]was a number one hit single that was all over the radio.
it's funny how albums like this are looked at now as some obscure throwaway in the stones career when in reality black and blue was the number one album in america for a few weeks in 1976.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
georgelicks
()
Date: April 13, 2017 20:34
Quote
lem motlow
it's funny how albums like this are looked at now as some obscure throwaway in the stones career when in reality black and blue was the number one album in america for a few weeks in 1976.
That's because you can't find a failure in the Stones' catalog like almost any other artist, their lowest charting studio album since 1964 is #5 so you should go for the artistic point of view.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: April 13, 2017 21:58
Melody & Hot Stuff are great tunes and imo so much better than most songs on GHS/IORR. Cherry Oh Baby is tongue-in-cheek, if you don´t take it too serious it´s very amusing. The only thing I don´t like about Black And Blue is Fool To Cry. But even FTC isn´t too bad - think of Always Suffering, Already Over Me, Streets Of Love and Out Of Tears. Black And Blue is one of my all-time-favorite Stones-albums, if there wasn´t glorious DW I would consider Black And Blue their last "big one".
I doubt that a double-album would have been a good idea, in fact all of their post-1989-albums were "double albums" unfortunately ruined by too many fillers that should have stayed in the can.
I doubt that a double-album would have been a good idea, in fact all of their post-1989-albums were "double albums" unfortunately ruined by too many fillers that should have stayed in the can.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: April 13, 2017 22:18
Black And Blue to me is everything it should be, the feel and atmosphere of it takes me back to when i first played it. Although its not as good as albums before it or after it, it has a place in my memory and heart. Memory Motel alone was worth the purchase price, i even love the album cover.
No i don't think it needed to be anything other than it was , so it didn't need to be a double album.
No i don't think it needed to be anything other than it was , so it didn't need to be a double album.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
RipThisBone
()
Date: April 13, 2017 23:34
To make Black and Blue a double album these songs come into mind:
COME ON SUGAR outtake for the Black and Blue Bonus disc.
video: [youtu.be]
and I LOVE LADIES.....................................
SHAME SHAME SHAME (instrumental from Rotterdam session).
HEY NEGRITA (the 12 minute early version, known from bootleg)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-13 23:35 by RipThisBone.
COME ON SUGAR outtake for the Black and Blue Bonus disc.
video: [youtu.be]
and I LOVE LADIES.....................................
SHAME SHAME SHAME (instrumental from Rotterdam session).
HEY NEGRITA (the 12 minute early version, known from bootleg)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-13 23:35 by RipThisBone.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: April 13, 2017 23:57
Black and Blue is arguably their weakest studio album to that point. The best stuff is good but half of it I don't really care if I hear again.
If they were going to expand it I would rather hear the rehearsal material with Jeff Beck, after all it was really just the guitarist try out album.
However, on the good side it is recorded well. Too bad the material isn't better.
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-14 00:16 by boogaloojef.
If they were going to expand it I would rather hear the rehearsal material with Jeff Beck, after all it was really just the guitarist try out album.
However, on the good side it is recorded well. Too bad the material isn't better.
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-14 00:16 by boogaloojef.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: April 14, 2017 00:28
Quote
boogaloojef
Black and Blue is arguably their weakest studio album to that point. The best stuff is good but half of it I don't really care if I hear again.
If they were going to expand it I would rather hear the rehearsal material with Jeff Beck, after all it was really just the guitarist try out album.
However, on the good side it is recorded well. Too bad the material isn't better.
Eerrr... No.
It's Only RNR is a lot weaker. They sound tired and bored on that record.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Ram
()
Date: April 14, 2017 00:28
One of my favorite albums through and through and I say that for nearly every Stones album. Everyone gets too hung up on everything being like Exile during this period, but it can't. And the isolation aspect is what makes the albums like exile or beggars what they are. It's their life at that specific time recorded in 9-12 songs. But any day this could be my favorite album. The feel is so cool right down to the colors and beach photoshoot. It's mellow just like GHS and it fits to different times. If GHS was the dazy come down from the high and partying of Exile, IORR is "look back and reassess that "yeah we are the greatest band in the world and we're gonna shove it in your face" then Black and Blue is the cool sit back and chill on a beach album. It's way way underrated and is lost between the wild STP years from before and the jammy and grovvy success of Some Girls and what would follow. A double lp would be awesome because ultimately it's just more music from our favorite band from this specific moment in their career.
Brian had some kind of genius for finding people, didn't he?
-"He did. He got us together – Charlie, Mick and me."-"Life" by Keith Richards
Roll Tide
Brian had some kind of genius for finding people, didn't he?
-"He did. He got us together – Charlie, Mick and me."-"Life" by Keith Richards
Roll Tide
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: April 14, 2017 02:18
Quote
BluerangerQuote
boogaloojef
Black and Blue is arguably their weakest studio album to that point. The best stuff is good but half of it I don't really care if I hear again.
If they were going to expand it I would rather hear the rehearsal material with Jeff Beck, after all it was really just the guitarist try out album.
However, on the good side it is recorded well. Too bad the material isn't better.
Eerrr... No.
It's Only RNR is a lot weaker. They sound tired and bored on that record.
I like IORR much better. They only songs I don't really care for are Luxury and If You Really Want To Be My Friend.
I don't care for over half of Black And Blue. Black And Blue is better than Emotional Rescue.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-14 02:21 by boogaloojef.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
harlem shuffle
()
Date: April 14, 2017 15:08
Black and Blue was a downer,not many good songs on it.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: April 14, 2017 15:31
...downer !!!!! ....
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
rollmops
()
Date: April 14, 2017 16:13
Black and blue is in my TopTen rolling stones albums. I know lots of fans don't care about it but I am not one of those. It's a short album and I would argue to keep it that way. The mid 70's were still wild open or not "organized"creatively. Black and blue is just a collection of songs without a center or a focus. The stones were still in troubled time during that time and it shows in Black and Blue lack of "concept".
Rockandroll,
Mops
Rockandroll,
Mops
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
ouroux58
()
Date: April 14, 2017 16:33
Quote
boogaloojef
What they should have done is gotten rid of songs like Cherry Oh Baby, Melody and Hot Stuff and added Slave and Worried About You for example.
If "Slavef" and "Worried about You" were on "black and blue", the day you would have listen to the Hot Stuff and Cherry oh baby" as outtakes, you would said: why they didn't put both songs on the LP instead of Slavef" and "Worried about You".
Some people always think that outtakes are better than released tracks.
. They are the musicians and I think there was good reasons choosing these tracks.Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: April 14, 2017 23:54
Quote
ouroux58Quote
boogaloojef
What they should have done is gotten rid of songs like Cherry Oh Baby, Melody and Hot Stuff and added Slave and Worried About You for example.
If "Slavef" and "Worried about You" were on "black and blue", the day you would have listen to the Hot Stuff and Cherry oh baby" as outtakes, you would said: why they didn't put both songs on the LP instead of Slavef" and "Worried about You".
Some people always think that outtakes are better than released tracks.
Exactly. There will always be those people who thinks 'what we didn't get was the best'. It's some kind of inadequate attitude towards the artists, which is very unfortunate. The records are what they are. They are the finished product. Take it or leave it.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Single Malt
()
Date: April 15, 2017 00:18
Fantastic album with great songs. Also sound is marvelous on that LP. Still, double album would have been perhaps too long.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 15, 2017 00:22
Quote
BluerangerQuote
boogaloojef
Black and Blue is arguably their weakest studio album to that point. The best stuff is good but half of it I don't really care if I hear again.
If they were going to expand it I would rather hear the rehearsal material with Jeff Beck, after all it was really just the guitarist try out album.
However, on the good side it is recorded well. Too bad the material isn't better.
Eerrr... No.
It's Only RNR is a lot weaker. They sound tired and bored on that record.
GHS is weaker as well, imo.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: April 15, 2017 00:24
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
BluerangerQuote
boogaloojef
Black and Blue is arguably their weakest studio album to that point. The best stuff is good but half of it I don't really care if I hear again.
If they were going to expand it I would rather hear the rehearsal material with Jeff Beck, after all it was really just the guitarist try out album.
However, on the good side it is recorded well. Too bad the material isn't better.
Eerrr... No.
It's Only RNR is a lot weaker. They sound tired and bored on that record.
GHS has grown on me in later years. IORR has not, in fact just the opposite.
GHS is weaker as well, imo.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: April 15, 2017 02:08
Quote
BluerangerQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
BluerangerQuote
boogaloojef
Black and Blue is arguably their weakest studio album to that point. The best stuff is good but half of it I don't really care if I hear again.
If they were going to expand it I would rather hear the rehearsal material with Jeff Beck, after all it was really just the guitarist try out album.
However, on the good side it is recorded well. Too bad the material isn't better.
Eerrr... No.
It's Only RNR is a lot weaker. They sound tired and bored on that record.
GHS has grown on me in later years. IORR has not, in fact just the opposite.
GHS is weaker as well, imo.
Goats Head Soup and It's Only Rock 'N' Roll are both better than Black & Blue.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: April 15, 2017 02:13
Quote
ouroux58Quote
boogaloojef
What they should have done is gotten rid of songs like Cherry Oh Baby, Melody and Hot Stuff and added Slave and Worried About You for example.
If "Slavef" and "Worried about You" were on "black and blue", the day you would have listen to the Hot Stuff and Cherry oh baby" as outtakes, you would said: why they didn't put both songs on the LP instead of Slavef" and "Worried about You".
Some people always think that outtakes are better than released tracks.
So there is the thread on here that Slave might be the best song the Stones released since 1980 but it shouldn't have been included on Black & Blue? That makes no sense.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-15 02:24 by boogaloojef.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: April 15, 2017 02:28
Quote
BluerangerQuote
ouroux58Quote
boogaloojef
What they should have done is gotten rid of songs like Cherry Oh Baby, Melody and Hot Stuff and added Slave and Worried About You for example.
If "Slavef" and "Worried about You" were on "black and blue", the day you would have listen to the Hot Stuff and Cherry oh baby" as outtakes, you would said: why they didn't put both songs on the LP instead of Slavef" and "Worried about You".
Some people always think that outtakes are better than released tracks.
Exactly. There will always be those people who thinks 'what we didn't get was the best'. It's some kind of inadequate attitude towards the artists, which is very unfortunate. The records are what they are. They are the finished product. Take it or leave it.
However, the musicians do not always get everything right or all their albums would be get great reviews and sell millions. Black & Blue is not universally thought of as great album. Most reviews I have read consider it average to slightly below average. My opinion is pretty much the same. The Stones are arguably my favorite group but not all of their albums or songs are excellent. Unfortunately quite a few of the weaker ones ended up on Black & Blue.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-15 02:30 by boogaloojef.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Moonshine
()
Date: April 15, 2017 09:50
Their best outside the big 4, would love this getting the deluxe treatment.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: April 15, 2017 10:55
I laugh over some people who think B&B is so great, so perfect for the times -- the way Beatles fans think Let It Be is great just because it has 3 big songs.
B&B is the perfect example of the Stones not knowing what was going on in rock music at the time of its release (ie, Ramones and their influence), whereas Some Girls is more of a career comeback idea of what was known about what was needed to keep them "current", moving forward and all that.
If B&B was so great, then how come they didn't release its sequel (ie, all those traditional R&B sounding outtakes from Some Girls) instead?
If B&B had been recorded and set for release just 2 years later in 1978, they would have been laughed at, totally, seen as passé -- sort of like releasing a record like Aftermath in 1972.
B&B is the perfect example of the Stones not knowing what was going on in rock music at the time of its release (ie, Ramones and their influence), whereas Some Girls is more of a career comeback idea of what was known about what was needed to keep them "current", moving forward and all that.
If B&B was so great, then how come they didn't release its sequel (ie, all those traditional R&B sounding outtakes from Some Girls) instead?
If B&B had been recorded and set for release just 2 years later in 1978, they would have been laughed at, totally, seen as passé -- sort of like releasing a record like Aftermath in 1972.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 15, 2017 11:15
I'm pretty sure Hot Stuff, Fool To Cry, Memory Motel, Hand Of Fate and Crazy Mama would have been received well in 1978, too.
Something for everyone: Studio 51, hard-rocking stuff, Philly soul and a beautiful ballad..
Something for everyone: Studio 51, hard-rocking stuff, Philly soul and a beautiful ballad..
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: April 15, 2017 11:24
Myself I can't stand what GasLightStreet once explained to me as 'scat singing' towards the end of "Melody". Then I would be ready to take the gamble of having any other unreleased song from that point in time in its place instead, provided that this song be finished. But I would prefer the band to make the choice of song.
Still BLACK & BLUE, together with IORR, would have constituted the first comparative slump in their career. But a new song instead of "Melody" might have contributed to make BLACK & BLUE better than IORR.
Apart from that, I see no motive for changing anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-15 11:26 by Witness.
Still BLACK & BLUE, together with IORR, would have constituted the first comparative slump in their career. But a new song instead of "Melody" might have contributed to make BLACK & BLUE better than IORR.
Apart from that, I see no motive for changing anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-15 11:26 by Witness.
Re: If Black And Blue were a double album...
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: April 15, 2017 11:51
imo iorr has about six really good ones, and a couple of those at least really great. spectacular at least one or two depending on someones personal taste.
and for me b&b has some 'ok' stuff, some sorta good i guess, maybe one toward the top tier in some says...i know it's a matter of taste and response that is personal obviously but that's my take on it. I haven't personally gone to it except for maybe one or two over the many years from b&b for a quick listen or half listen...
..and I DO listen to a LOT of Stones a LOT of the time...
i could listen to all of iorr and enjoy it; a couple of them are astounding good; great imo. tops. again just an imo; it may be wrong to you or for you but it's what i live with, and can and want to live with; and on the other hand w B&B what I just don't bother with, for some reason...
...a WHOLE lot of great stuff coming out then and b&b just did not matter or figure in to me, for whatever reasons of choice or taste or in comparison to what was being offered elsewhere from some really great artists at the time. plus as time has passed, it still holds no special place for me. I've been able to go back and re-visit some LPs i didn't spend that much time with at first, and sort of re-discoverd some tracks and found myself liking a lot of things I thought weak in general comparison to the rest and best, but not with b&b; it just don't move me. sure fool to cry was fun and passionate and dramatic at the time and all that. i didn't HATE It or diss it or react to it badly; i just didn't think it worth a lot of time; it didn't pique my interest or mean anything to me. it mostly still doesn't. food to cry fun; there' nicky; a nice warm kind of feel; his falsetto overdub throws me a little off; i've never gone in for the jagger falsetto thing...but as time goes by, when i revisit i turn it off pretty quickly b&b just don't make it for me...bill does a great job with those little slides and all that. bill always does a great job...that fake soul thing Mick has going on he would later tone and develop to a particularly annoying vocal personae...they are lost here...it's weak product and great artwork and some controversial cover; theya are pulling number ones still here because of the greatness that came before it only...not really a big hit from this; nor deserving one. tho i did here fool o the radio at first a lot....fool to cry did chart a a single in at #10, Hot Stuff charted around #50 and was not near a big hit; and that one did not chart in UK at all. Lame white boy James Brown funk...one more time Bill is great. and anothe guest guitarist here too...the whole thing unfocused...How dated is Hot Stuff with that almost synth sounding guitar lead...great percussion....but it just makes me want to listen to James Brown, this is kinda foolish in comparison; than that dub think with the echo....it's bloody awful.
and for me b&b has some 'ok' stuff, some sorta good i guess, maybe one toward the top tier in some says...i know it's a matter of taste and response that is personal obviously but that's my take on it. I haven't personally gone to it except for maybe one or two over the many years from b&b for a quick listen or half listen...
..and I DO listen to a LOT of Stones a LOT of the time...
i could listen to all of iorr and enjoy it; a couple of them are astounding good; great imo. tops. again just an imo; it may be wrong to you or for you but it's what i live with, and can and want to live with; and on the other hand w B&B what I just don't bother with, for some reason...
...a WHOLE lot of great stuff coming out then and b&b just did not matter or figure in to me, for whatever reasons of choice or taste or in comparison to what was being offered elsewhere from some really great artists at the time. plus as time has passed, it still holds no special place for me. I've been able to go back and re-visit some LPs i didn't spend that much time with at first, and sort of re-discoverd some tracks and found myself liking a lot of things I thought weak in general comparison to the rest and best, but not with b&b; it just don't move me. sure fool to cry was fun and passionate and dramatic at the time and all that. i didn't HATE It or diss it or react to it badly; i just didn't think it worth a lot of time; it didn't pique my interest or mean anything to me. it mostly still doesn't. food to cry fun; there' nicky; a nice warm kind of feel; his falsetto overdub throws me a little off; i've never gone in for the jagger falsetto thing...but as time goes by, when i revisit i turn it off pretty quickly b&b just don't make it for me...bill does a great job with those little slides and all that. bill always does a great job...that fake soul thing Mick has going on he would later tone and develop to a particularly annoying vocal personae...they are lost here...it's weak product and great artwork and some controversial cover; theya are pulling number ones still here because of the greatness that came before it only...not really a big hit from this; nor deserving one. tho i did here fool o the radio at first a lot....fool to cry did chart a a single in at #10, Hot Stuff charted around #50 and was not near a big hit; and that one did not chart in UK at all. Lame white boy James Brown funk...one more time Bill is great. and anothe guest guitarist here too...the whole thing unfocused...How dated is Hot Stuff with that almost synth sounding guitar lead...great percussion....but it just makes me want to listen to James Brown, this is kinda foolish in comparison; than that dub think with the echo....it's bloody awful.
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