A few more words on Sweet neocon, if anybody can stand it :-)
It's not about politics, only about grammar, and my question is: who calls whom a hypocrite?

The general answer is: Jagger calls the neocon whom he later addresses in the refrain a hypocrite. It is not mine, and here is why.

If we say Jagger is speaking in the first verse, it means there is a change of point of view from verses 1 to verses 2 and 3, in which the neocon is speaking ("if you are against us...", "there's bombers in my bedroom".

But what if the neocon was the speaker in all three verses, and Jagger only the speaker on the chorus?

One reason to think so is that if Jagger is the speaker both in verse 1 and in the chorus, he makes no sense
He would call a man a hypocrite and a crock of shit and then wonder "How can you be so wrong?"
That is wierd. What comes to mind about a hypocrite is not that he is WRONG. The problem is, he's a liar etc., but what does it have to do with it whether is wrong or right?

Another reason is that verses 1 say "you crock of shit, you are not a Christian patriot like you pretend to be". But that doesn't seem to be a very harsh criticism of neocons, rather it seems to mean: "you should be a TRUE neocon".

So let us now consider that the speaker in the first verses IS the neocon. It makes absolute sense: he says

"You're not a Christian, you're not a patriot, you're a hypocrite"

That's a caricature of the belief that "whoever is a christian and a patriot must act like me - it is simply IMPOSSIBLE for a christian patriot not to think like me in earnest. So if he says the contrary, he's lying". Some kind of neoconish attack on whoever dare say they are Christians and patriots but disapprove of Haliburton and deny that there are bombers in their bedrooms.

I don't think I'm over interpreting.
Just the contrary: it makes the song's structure much simpler. In verses, the neocon attacks anybody who doesn't think like him. In the chorus, Jagger has a go at him, ironically: cool off sweet neocon, things are not the way you think they are. You don't have to call people hypocrites and crocks of shit only because they don't think like you. They may just as well be patriots as you.

I also think it fits much better with the music: so dry, bitter, minimalistic. And I love the ending ha-ha-ha, like a chorus of nasty little devils. And I love Jagger's naughty vocals throughout, snarling like Johnny Rotten. I think the music clearly says: "I'm not smart, I'm just nasty".

I think it's actually the accepted interpretation that is twisted and unnatural, and we only jumped to it because of the thrill: "wow! jagger calls JW Bush a crock of shit!"

By the way, in the Italian edition of Rolling Stone, Jagger says that Sweet neocon emerged from a conversation with a friend of his who voted for the republicans. I thought that was a cheap way of saying "i have republican friends too and I don't speak of JW Bush". But it now seems perfectly natural to me: verses are the friend who, exasperated to see that Jagger does not agree, looses his calm and say: "that's impossible! You're lying! You cannot be a christian!".

As an footnote, although I don't care too much for being a peace-maker, I also think that if I'm right, then neocons on this board can cool off. The song is a portrait of a PARANOIAC, an agressive and intolerant man who is a neocon. I wonder why all republican voters should take it personal.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-06 23:08 by otonneau.

I think you think too much!

I havn't read the lyrics yet, but love the track!

It's one that sort of comes out of nowhere and takes you by surprise, musically, in overall context of album.

But this is no use to your philosophical, dialectical quest.

I think you are an IN-TELL-ECT, (my sweet otonneau).

(That's me talking, btw. Not my friend at a party, or my wife's brother's father-in-law).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-06 23:29 by Four Stone Walls.

A dialogue ? Interesting... Like in "Worried about you" ?

That is deep man!!!

Hey again, I don't think I think too much at all! (well of course if you just don't car for lyrics that's fine by me, dear Four Stones Walls!)

More convinced by the minute, and ALL it takes to see it is forget about the media hype that said "woaw Jagger insults Bush!"

I'll just state it differently, to show how SIMPLE it is:

A man says: "If you were a Christian and a patriot, you'd want to slash those bloody muslims, but you're not a christian, I know what it means to be a patriot and you're a hypocrite for sure. And what about the oil, huh? We need the oil, what am I gonna do if I can't have my daily sip? We must take it from these bloody arabs who are making us pay fortunes for it!"

And Jagger answers: how come you're so wrong?

Ehy Otonneau,

You came back in great shape!!! :-)

"got to be worked on
don't have no bark nor bite..."

Wild Slivovitz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ehy Otonneau,
>
> You came back in great shape!!! :-)



Yes he did...His own Big Bang

Interesting point of view Olivier - had to read it 3 times but now I get your point

But actually I don't think that Mick thought that far, I think it's directed at the NeoCons not from their point of view.
I have to say that I agree with the content of the song, basically I agree with the Stones. But the song is not exactly great...but it serves it purpose very well - it generated a lot of publicity!


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-07 00:16 by Lorenz.

My, my, my.....

Welcome the hell back.

I like this conversation.

ALL I CAN SAY IS THE GROOVE IS V.GOOD AND YOU CAN DANCE TO IT.
WHAT JAGGER SAYS VERY TRUE,THEIR IS ALWAYS TWO SIDE TO A STORY.
TRUTH ALWAYS HURTS.GOOD ON YOU SIR MICK JAGGER.KISH

Phhhh, after some more beers I possibly get it...

otonneau,

I have read this about 4 times now and get it. Very interesting. I think I am smarter now after this post. Cool!!!

Olivier, you're nuts!!! That's what I love though. Your points are quite intresting. Almost like a Darwin kind of approach. Seeing the things from a different perspective... the song makes more sense, but only because I'm nuts too!

If Jagger let's the neocon speak in the verses though, the only political point of this song is the question of Mick in the chorus. So you say that he only asks the neocon why he is so wrong? That might make the lyrics more powerfull than I thought in the first place, because he doesn't have to make a point himself.

I'm so happy some of you guys are interested!

I'm sorry however, I will insist, because I really want it clear:

I am NOT suggesting that Jagger thought far in ANYWAY at all!

He just wrote a caricature of neocon obessions, a caricature also including the belief that THEY are the only true christians and patriots and all the REST are hypocrites and crocks of shit.

It's NOT deep thinking!

It only requires thinking now, for us, because we're so biased.

I'm so pissed at bloody medias who stuffed us before the album was even issued with the thought that jagger insults Bush - they hid what was simple, funny, witty and very Jaggerish, and convinced everyone that the Stones wrote some silly idiotic verses not worthy of a angsty teenager.

Just read you post, Rudger. As said above, I'm NOT nuts, but however I agree fully with your point, and I elaborate:

How come you're so wrong? Look at the state you're in, man, and listen to yourself - and the acid, frantic music and the tone of voice suggests he really IS in bad shape.

Think of sweet neocon in relation to Crazy Mama!

Who gives a sh#@, it's a great song. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

Makes a lot of sense Olivier. I enjoy it a lot better at this point :-) just kidding. The song has a pretty nice groove.

Do you remember this one:

[iorr.org] ???

Yes I do remember, that was fun! But that one WAS a far-fetched interpretation, while this one isn't :-)

Nevertheless, in both cases we change the perspective. That way you notice how strong lyrics can be if you use your imagination. Everybody hears them differently.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

can't believe nobody sees it my way! So here is the effect Sweet NeoCon had on me: it made me as fanatically dogmatic as the character who speaks in the first verses.... But I'm right! I AM! I MUST be!! You hypocrites.... All stones fans who don't agree should be sent to an IORR'ers Haliburton (perhaps ALtamont?) without trial. :-)

However, I just love the song more by the minute now