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keithsman
I can't believe people keep missing the point of this thread, it's not about Bill being a dirty old man, or you think it's acceptable or illegal or should he be in prison, it's not about that. It's about censoring his music, or censoring Stones music by the Stones if the metoo movement or any other liberal elite movement start going towards all those underage groupies in the 60's, where does it end, censoring history because they were bad people or tyrants, censoring anything that can be received as offensive, you end up living a life that's out of George Orwell's 1984.

I'm all for the imprisonment of all the pedophiles and abusers who have caused misery to so many for so long, but it shouldn't end in censorship of art or history, we learn from mistakes we shouldn't bury them under the carpet and pretend it never happened.

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Father Ted

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CaptainCorella

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keithsman


Now wait a minute, i must clarify, i am against censorship, ie, banning Bills new film, i am not condoning under age sex, why would you twist that around to take the higher political ground. I'm not interested in politics, i'm neither left nor right, i just don't want the day to come where the Stones music will be banned because Bill slept with an under age girl, or that Mick slept with an underage groupie in 65'
I mean where does it end, surely the meetoo movement have bigger fish to fry, leave a rock band alone, people have the right to hear their music for ever.

One of the tougher moral questions of any era relates to how much notice you take of events in earlier times when different standards of behaviour were quite acceptable.

For example... If tomorrow (in 2019) you learnt that a famous current performing artist kept 15 slaves in dreadful conditions you'd be shocked and that would probably make you stay away from their work. Understandable.

But how many famous, significant, and much praised signatories of the American Declaration of Independence did just that!

Another example... The origin and development of digital computing (without which IORR would not exist) owes a great deal to the pioneering work of Alan Turing at Bletchely Park in WW2. These days he's praised for his work, but after the War he eventually committed suicide as a result of legal issues that he had to deal with because he was gay. (He has been posthumously 'pardoned', which rather emphasises the point.)

Different times, different mores.

I'm sure I could find other examples.

But the point is that these issues do not readily respond to binary answers of "yes that's OK, we'll continue to admire your artwork", and "No that's damnable, we'll act as if you had never existed."

Personally I am not wise enough to knowi the right answer, but I am just about old enough and wise enough to know that it's a very hard set of questions.

I completely disagree with you. Bill Wyman had sex with a child. That was as illegal and socially unacceptable in 1983 as it is now.

A

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Spud
Of course it's their choice, and their festival ...but I suspect they made that choice on the basis of their fear of censure rather than belief.

[And I do know some of the folks involved ]

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35love
“Again, there is a biological difference between teenagers and prepubescent children.

Neither is okay, but there is a distinction.”


(Quote from another IORR thread)


From personal experience
I fell for the Stones @ 13 years old.
I was 15 years old when Bill Wyman MARRIED MANDY SMITH.
I collected magazines w/ any RS info, had this England front page fancy wedding.
While my mother would have never agreed (or father) to a relationship of this type,
back in the early 80’s parents were looser, shall we say.
My friends and I would walk the streets at night,
take daytime buses to downtown Mpls and walk the city stop in smoke shops,
and we partied right under our parents noses drinking ages were 18 and 19 years old! In the 80’s, we glammed up ourselves high hair high heels and went to clubs.
My stepdad dropped me off when I was 17 at a Mpls dance club that was illegal yet no problem, bye, my friends’ll give me a ride home (actually the bouncer I was dating)

Do I rear my kids different 40 years later? YES.

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jlowe

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Spud
Of course it's their choice, and their festival ...but I suspect they made that choice on the basis of their fear of censure rather than belief.

[And I do know some of the folks involved ]

But I am surprised. Particularly as the world of cinema has long been at the forefront of personal expression, stretching the boundaries etc.
What if a film was made about the German Director Leni Reifenstahl who may or not have been a Nazi sympathiser.
Or famous writers and painters who may have had 'an unhealthy interest in young girls'.
Presumably the Sheffield people won't be showing any Led Zep or Jimmy Page films either.

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emotionalbarbecue
By the same token, If things the stones did in the past were made public the next tour should be called off.

Hypocrisy all around.

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Aquamarine
How many more times--none of this has anything to do with the #metoo movement, unless Mandy Smith has made a #metoo statement that she was taken advantage of (whether she was a minor or not). That's the whole point--"Me too. I was sexually abused or harassed too." She hasn't.

SO PLEASE LEAVE THE #METOO MOVEMENT OUT OF THIS.

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buttons67
meetoo outing people on social media is a disgrace though, they are not courts, people who are accussed have the right to a fair trial.not trial by a public kangaroo court where vigilantes will make sure repercussions take place. the thing with vigilante groups is they think they are above the law, they want revenge on someone they perceive as having committed a vile sin, and they dont hold back till they get someone but often its the wrong person, some innocent who happens to get caught up in someone elses problems. it has happened time and time again cos some idiot has pointed the finger at the wrong person by mistake.

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retired_dog
In the end, it's not our business. I am a fan of their music, not of their personal behaviour or misbehaviour. Bill's behaviour is questionable, but he is responsible for his doings. But when it comes to questionable behaviour, let's not overlook the role of Mandy's mother who allegedly allowed her meeting Bill. What was she thinking? That a man in his 40s is interested in the intellectual capacities of her young daughter? And what if Bill was not a world-famous musician but a poor old sod instead?

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Aquamarine
How many more times--none of this has anything to do with the #metoo movement, unless Mandy Smith has made a #metoo statement that she was taken advantage of (whether she was a minor or not). That's the whole point--"Me too. I was sexually abused or harassed too." She hasn't.

SO PLEASE LEAVE THE #METOO MOVEMENT OUT OF THIS.

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Glam Descendant

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Aquamarine
How many more times--none of this has anything to do with the #metoo movement, unless Mandy Smith has made a #metoo statement that she was taken advantage of (whether she was a minor or not). That's the whole point--"Me too. I was sexually abused or harassed too." She hasn't.

SO PLEASE LEAVE THE #METOO MOVEMENT OUT OF THIS.

I apologize, I just don't know how to change the subject line!

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stanlove

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buttons67
meetoo outing people on social media is a disgrace though, they are not courts, people who are accussed have the right to a fair trial.not trial by a public kangaroo court where vigilantes will make sure repercussions take place. the thing with vigilante groups is they think they are above the law, they want revenge on someone they perceive as having committed a vile sin, and they dont hold back till they get someone but often its the wrong person, some innocent who happens to get caught up in someone elses problems. it has happened time and time again cos some idiot has pointed the finger at the wrong person by mistake.

It is not only me too. It is anyone that the mob can demonize. If someone makes a questionable 911 call on a minority the mob makes sure they can't work anymore. If someone makes a joke that the mob finds offense the mob makes sure they can't work or go to college. and so on and so on. If someone did something decades ago and the mob find out the mob tries to destroy their life. It's disgusting and people need to step up.

We all know who the mob is.

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keithsman

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stanlove

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buttons67
meetoo outing people on social media is a disgrace though, they are not courts, people who are accussed have the right to a fair trial.not trial by a public kangaroo court where vigilantes will make sure repercussions take place. the thing with vigilante groups is they think they are above the law, they want revenge on someone they perceive as having committed a vile sin, and they dont hold back till they get someone but often its the wrong person, some innocent who happens to get caught up in someone elses problems. it has happened time and time again cos some idiot has pointed the finger at the wrong person by mistake.

It is not only me too. It is anyone that the mob can demonize. If someone makes a questionable 911 call on a minority the mob makes sure they can't work anymore. If someone makes a joke that the mob finds offense the mob makes sure they can't work or go to college. and so on and so on. If someone did something decades ago and the mob find out the mob tries to destroy their life. It's disgusting and people need to step up.

We all know who the mob is.

Pardon for being a bit slow, but who are the mob, who is pulling the strings, who and what is behind all this.

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matxil

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keithsman

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stanlove

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buttons67
meetoo outing people on social media is a disgrace though, they are not courts, people who are accussed have the right to a fair trial.not trial by a public kangaroo court where vigilantes will make sure repercussions take place. the thing with vigilante groups is they think they are above the law, they want revenge on someone they perceive as having committed a vile sin, and they dont hold back till they get someone but often its the wrong person, some innocent who happens to get caught up in someone elses problems. it has happened time and time again cos some idiot has pointed the finger at the wrong person by mistake.

It is not only me too. It is anyone that the mob can demonize. If someone makes a questionable 911 call on a minority the mob makes sure they can't work anymore. If someone makes a joke that the mob finds offense the mob makes sure they can't work or go to college. and so on and so on. If someone did something decades ago and the mob find out the mob tries to destroy their life. It's disgusting and people need to step up.

We all know who the mob is.

Pardon for being a bit slow, but who are the mob, who is pulling the strings, who and what is behind all this.

The mob: women who cannot walk alone on the street at night, moslims who get insulted on the street, black people who get shot by cops, gays who get insulted and treated as inferior beings, sick people who cannot afford healtcare, older people who cannot pay the rent, children who are taken advantage of in so many ways, and - especially - everyone who wants to fight this injustice and hopes for a fairer society.
Not the mob: the people in power who control the media, the banks, the governments and the mindless sheep who keep them in power and who will call everyone who wants to change that "the mob".

I am glad we got that all cleared up.

Regards,

Don Corleone.

By the way: any news about the "new album"? I met a guy last night in a bar who knew the nephew of the postman of an old friend of the brother of a roadie who told me that "they are in the studio".

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matxil

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keithsman

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stanlove

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buttons67
meetoo outing people on social media is a disgrace though, they are not courts, people who are accussed have the right to a fair trial.not trial by a public kangaroo court where vigilantes will make sure repercussions take place. the thing with vigilante groups is they think they are above the law, they want revenge on someone they perceive as having committed a vile sin, and they dont hold back till they get someone but often its the wrong person, some innocent who happens to get caught up in someone elses problems. it has happened time and time again cos some idiot has pointed the finger at the wrong person by mistake.

It is not only me too. It is anyone that the mob can demonize. If someone makes a questionable 911 call on a minority the mob makes sure they can't work anymore. If someone makes a joke that the mob finds offense the mob makes sure they can't work or go to college. and so on and so on. If someone did something decades ago and the mob find out the mob tries to destroy their life. It's disgusting and people need to step up.

We all know who the mob is.

Pardon for being a bit slow, but who are the mob, who is pulling the strings, who and what is behind all this.

The mob: women who cannot walk alone on the street at night, moslims who get insulted on the street, black people who get shot by cops, gays who get insulted and treated as inferior beings, sick people who cannot afford healtcare, older people who cannot pay the rent, children who are taken advantage of in so many ways, and - especially - everyone who wants to fight this injustice and hopes for a fairer society.
Not the mob: the people in power who control the media, the banks, the governments and the mindless sheep who keep them in power and who will call everyone who wants to change that "the mob".

I am glad we got that all cleared up.

Regards,

Don Corleone.

By the way: any news about the "new album"? I met a guy last night in a bar who knew the nephew of the postman of an old friend of the brother of a roadie who told me that "they are in the studio".

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rollmops
It is strange that someone decided to cancel the showing of that movie. Customers should make their own decisions by going or not going to see the movie. If the movie flops it would mean that the general public refuses to see Bill Wyman as a person of cultural significance. The people should decide.
Rockandroll,
Mops

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exhpart
Didn't Bill ring the Police at one stage asking if they wanted to talk to him? Or did I dream this?

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exhpart
Didn't Bill ring the Police at one stage asking if they wanted to talk to him? Or did I dream this?