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Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 16, 2022 16:50

There are no issues with Charlie's estate. He didn't quit the band. As for whether there is an anthology and a studio album, let's wait to see what those plugged in closer (Soldatti, mpj, and those close to Don Was) have to say. Their word will be far more reliable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-16 16:51 by Rocky Dijon.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: December 16, 2022 17:03

I don't of course know what their financial arrangements are but since Charlie didn't write songs he (or now, rather his heirs) won't get any royalties from songwriting anyway - not sure now, maybe there are a few songs credited to all members of the Stones. At any rate, if he has no writer's credits with the new songs there will be no respective royalties. If Charlie as a core member of the group got a percentage from sales I don't know although I would guess so, he was not just a paid session hand, after all. Similar questions arise w.r.t. Brian, Bill and Mick Taylor. I just recall from some interview that Ronnie was always very keen on touring because that's where his money came from. I also recall an interview (about compiling 40 Licks or so) where he said he tried to persuade Mick to also put one MJ/KR/RW song on disc 2. His reasons may not have been merely artistic ones.

But I guess there is a bunch of IORRians who know more about this.

Let's not forget that we do know from Keith that some new tracks featuring Charlie are likely to be released but in which way and on what album (work in progess or compilation bonus) and for which reason is pure speculation at this point.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: December 16, 2022 17:09

I think that if they relegate any new Charlie tunes to the backside of yet another greatest hits package, then they are cheapening the legacy of Charlie himself, and for me, the band would stoop to a new low in doing so. If they don't have enough new material to put out a proper new album of Charlie tracks, then perhaps they should release an EP instead. For God's sake, let's not tack the songs onto a GH package. Whoever drummed up that idea needs to be fired immediately! I still hold out hope that the new album will be mostly Charlie, with Steve relegated to playing on the newly-penned B-Side songs only!!! >grinning smiley<

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 16, 2022 20:23

Quote
doitywoik
I don't of course know what their financial arrangements are but since Charlie didn't write songs he (or now, rather his heirs) won't get any royalties from songwriting anyway - not sure now, maybe there are a few songs credited to all members of the Stones. At any rate, if he has no writer's credits with the new songs there will be no respective royalties. If Charlie as a core member of the group got a percentage from sales I don't know although I would guess so, he was not just a paid session hand, after all.

Recordings generate royalties for artists, not just the songwriters. Charlie was also an owner in their various companies, something most artists don't have. How that impacts his wife and family now, I don't know. It is both legal and personal. I do know that Charlie's heirs would not be in the bind Mick Taylor was, but regardless of what fans think he was owed, Taylor was certainly taken care of late in their career. Charlie had no such worries. He came through their best years financially quite well.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 17, 2022 06:08

Quote
doitywoik
I don't of course know what their financial arrangements are but since Charlie didn't write songs he (or now, rather his heirs) won't get any royalties from songwriting anyway - not sure now, maybe there are a few songs credited to all members of the Stones. At any rate, if he has no writer's credits with the new songs there will be no respective royalties. If Charlie as a core member of the group got a percentage from sales I don't know although I would guess so, he was not just a paid session hand, after all. Similar questions arise w.r.t. Brian, Bill and Mick Taylor. I just recall from some interview that Ronnie was always very keen on touring because that's where his money came from. I also recall an interview (about compiling 40 Licks or so) where he said he tried to persuade Mick to also put one MJ/KR/RW song on disc 2. His reasons may not have been merely artistic ones.

But I guess there is a bunch of IORRians who know more about this.

Let's not forget that we do know from Keith that some new tracks featuring Charlie are likely to be released but in which way and on what album (work in progess or compilation bonus) and for which reason is pure speculation at this point.

Charlie received - and still does and will - artist royalties. Songwriters get mechanical royalties (songwriting) and artist royalties (a kind way of saying "recording performance" payment post-session/record label loan paid off).

Percentage wise it's nothing like songwriter money. But it's there and for some it's "enough" in regard to whatever plus touring.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: December 17, 2022 10:58

Quote
VoodooLounge13
I think that if they relegate any new Charlie tunes to the backside of yet another greatest hits package, then they are cheapening the legacy of Charlie himself, and for me, the band would stoop to a new low in doing so. If they don't have enough new material to put out a proper new album of Charlie tracks, then perhaps they should release an EP instead. For God's sake, let's not tack the songs onto a GH package. Whoever drummed up that idea needs to be fired immediately! I still hold out hope that the new album will be mostly Charlie, with Steve relegated to playing on the newly-penned B-Side songs only!!! >grinning smiley<

i don't know i want a new album and the last tracks with charlie released too and it very well maybe that what's left with charlie just isn't up to snuff for a real album and finishing them up as best they can and sticking them as bonus tracks on yet another brickwalled to death unnecessary greatest hits package maybe the only way we'll ever get to hear them

and if that's the only way they'll ever release these track i'd rather hear charlie's last songs with them this way then never at all (although your idea of an ep would of course be way lass tacky and more respectful of his legacy and significants)

but i also want one more good quality full album of new music from mick, keith, and ronnie and if it has to be steve on drums so bet it i'm ok with that

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: December 17, 2022 11:42

Quote
ProfessorWolf
Quote
VoodooLounge13
... If they don't have enough new material to put out a proper new album of Charlie tracks, then perhaps they should release an EP instead. ...

...
and if that's the only way they'll ever release these track i'd rather hear charlie's last songs with them this way then never at all (although your idea of an ep would of course be way lass tacky and more respectful of his legacy and significants)

but i also want one more good quality full album of new music from mick, keith, and ronnie and if it has to be steve on drums so bet it i'm ok with that

Yeah, certainly! Why not add a Charlie EP as a "bonus" disc to the new album right away? To me at least that would make more sense than grafting the Charlie tracks as an appendix onto yet another otherwise unnecessary GH compilation.

But maybe that's the point: People like us are much more likely to buy such a compilation if it comes with the last Charlie tracks than if it didn't.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-17 11:45 by doitywoik.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: December 17, 2022 11:56

Quote
doitywoik
Quote
ProfessorWolf
Quote
VoodooLounge13
... If they don't have enough new material to put out a proper new album of Charlie tracks, then perhaps they should release an EP instead. ...

...
and if that's the only way they'll ever release these track i'd rather hear charlie's last songs with them this way then never at all (although your idea of an ep would of course be way lass tacky and more respectful of his legacy and significants)

but i also want one more good quality full album of new music from mick, keith, and ronnie and if it has to be steve on drums so bet it i'm ok with that

Yeah, certainly! Why not add a Charlie EP as a "bonus" disc to the new album right away? To me at least that would make more sense than grafting the Charlie tracks as an appendix onto yet another otherwise unnecessary GH compilation.

But maybe that's the point: People like us are much more likely to buy such a compilation if it comes with the last Charlie tracks than if it didn't.

i won't lie it'd make it way more appealing to me with the charlie tracks then a honk! 2

and i'd definitely buy it for a honk! 2grinning smiley

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: December 17, 2022 13:01

Honk ...

[i.ebayimg.com]

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: mpj200 ()
Date: December 18, 2022 06:16

Quote
Rocky Dijon
There are no issues with Charlie's estate. He didn't quit the band. As for whether there is an anthology and a studio album, let's wait to see what those plugged in closer (Soldatti, mpj, and those close to Don Was) have to say. Their word will be far more reliable.

The album has cuts with Charlie and Steve. With UMG, however, one never knows. It’s close to being finished up.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 18, 2022 06:24

Any of their hits comps could be, or are, considered anthologies. Of course, an anthology can be whatever it is determined to be as well. TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE is called such a thing.

In the eyes of UME/UMG/whatever, is there an actual need for such a thing? In other words, what could be worthy of such a release? And how many releases would it be?

If it's just going to be another MADE IN THE SHADE - REWIND - JUMP BACK - HONK type of release, ha ha ha ha ha, oh yeah, we need that.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: December 18, 2022 07:28

Quote
mpj200
Quote
Rocky Dijon
There are no issues with Charlie's estate. He didn't quit the band. As for whether there is an anthology and a studio album, let's wait to see what those plugged in closer (Soldatti, mpj, and those close to Don Was) have to say. Their word will be far more reliable.

The album has cuts with Charlie and Steve. With UMG, however, one never knows. It’s close to being finished up.

Is there any other source in addition to Rocky Dijon's to back up the suspicion that there might be yet another compilation/anthology in addition to the new album that (also?) might contain tracks with Charlie?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-18 07:31 by doitywoik.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: December 18, 2022 07:29

Quote
mpj200
Quote
Rocky Dijon
There are no issues with Charlie's estate. He didn't quit the band. As for whether there is an anthology and a studio album, let's wait to see what those plugged in closer (Soldatti, mpj, and those close to Don Was) have to say. Their word will be far more reliable.

The album has cuts with Charlie and Steve. With UMG, however, one never knows. It’s close to being finished up.

thank you for sharing

if this pans out sounds like great newssmiling smiley

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: December 18, 2022 07:32

Quote
GasLightStreet
Any of their hits comps could be, or are, considered anthologies. Of course, an anthology can be whatever it is determined to be as well. TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE is called such a thing.

In the eyes of UME/UMG/whatever, is there an actual need for such a thing? In other words, what could be worthy of such a release? And how many releases would it be?

If it's just going to be another MADE IN THE SHADE - REWIND - JUMP BACK - HONK type of release, ha ha ha ha ha, oh yeah, we need that.

yeah i agree but a honk 2 released by itself with the best live tracks from 2019-2022 is something i would definitely want more then grrr live again

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: Justin ()
Date: December 18, 2022 10:12

Throwing all of the new tracks with Charlie on some anthology would be one big middle finger. If they do that they're chumps.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: jahisnotdead ()
Date: December 18, 2022 10:16

Sixty One Licks?

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: December 18, 2022 10:25

Apart from documentation purposes, would live tracks from 2019-2022 sound so much different from the live tracks on Honk Deluxe? I don't think so. Which raises the question if new live tracks weren't dispensable. They would only serve to document Charlie's last and Steve's first live appearances.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: December 18, 2022 11:53

Quote
mpj200
Quote
Rocky Dijon
There are no issues with Charlie's estate. He didn't quit the band. As for whether there is an anthology and a studio album, let's wait to see what those plugged in closer (Soldatti, mpj, and those close to Don Was) have to say. Their word will be far more reliable.

The album has cuts with Charlie and Steve. With UMG, however, one never knows. It’s close to being finished up.

Well that's good news, if only because it puts that silly compilation+charlie's odds and sods idea in the dumpster where it belongs!

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: December 18, 2022 12:52

Quote
doitywoik
Apart from documentation purposes, would live tracks from 2019-2022 sound so much different from the live tracks on Honk Deluxe? I don't think so. Which raises the question if new live tracks weren't dispensable. They would only serve to document Charlie's last and Steve's first live appearances.

yes it be lovely to have some of charlie's last stevie's first

and there would be a lot less guests on it for as wellwinking smiley

also i'm sure that from that time frame they could mine ten or so rarities or new songs to make up an interesting collection

just the acoustic set numbers from 2019 could make up a side

angie
play with fire
dead flowers
let it bleed
sweet virginia

plus songs like

harlem shuffle
monkey man
heartbreaker
far away eyes
ain't too proud to beg
ghost town
19th nervous breakdown
troubles a comin'
out of time
fool to cry
ride em' on down
mercy mercy

and maybe throw in the rehearsal performance of mother's little helper from madrid to as a bonus

oh and if we must get a warhorse let it be gimme shelter with chanel haynes

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 18, 2022 15:09

Quote
mpj200
Quote
Rocky Dijon
There are no issues with Charlie's estate. He didn't quit the band. As for whether there is an anthology and a studio album, let's wait to see what those plugged in closer (Soldatti, mpj, and those close to Don Was) have to say. Their word will be far more reliable.

The album has cuts with Charlie and Steve. With UMG, however, one never knows. It’s close to being finished up.

Thank you very much, mpj. For me, that settles matters and it's the outcome I preferred.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 18, 2022 15:11

Quote
doitywoik
Is there any other source in addition to Rocky Dijon's to back up the suspicion that there might be yet another compilation/anthology in addition to the new album that (also?) might contain tracks with Charlie?

Not reported here. That's why I asked mpj, Soldatti, etc. to weigh in. I trust them far more to know what is going on inside.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: TrulyMicks1 ()
Date: December 18, 2022 15:53

Quote
gotdablouse
Quote
mpj200
Quote
Rocky Dijon
There are no issues with Charlie's estate. He didn't quit the band. As for whether there is an anthology and a studio album, let's wait to see what those plugged in closer (Soldatti, mpj, and those close to Don Was) have to say. Their word will be far more reliable.

The album has cuts with Charlie and Steve. With UMG, however, one never knows. It’s close to being finished up.

Well that's good news, if only because it puts that silly compilation+charlie's odds and sods idea in the dumpster where it belongs!

Great news! Thanks for the update mpj. I don’t care whether or not there are guests and am very excited to hear something new from them!!

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 18, 2022 20:55

Quote
gotdablouse
Quote
mpj200
Quote
Rocky Dijon
There are no issues with Charlie's estate. He didn't quit the band. As for whether there is an anthology and a studio album, let's wait to see what those plugged in closer (Soldatti, mpj, and those close to Don Was) have to say. Their word will be far more reliable.

The album has cuts with Charlie and Steve. With UMG, however, one never knows. It’s close to being finished up.

Well that's good news, if only because it puts that silly compilation+charlie's odds and sods idea in the dumpster where it belongs!

Yes, that was a terrible rumour, and hopefully that idea stays in the dumpster.
As for the comment that the new album is "close to being finished up"?
Hope so, but...lol...at this point I'll believe it when I hear it...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: December 18, 2022 21:36

yep we've heard that one sometimes followed by a "lot of WRITING new stuff lately"
just DO NOT put Charlie's last contribution in a GRRR like cauldron, that would be too much

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: December 18, 2022 21:57

Yes, can you imagine? It would be like tacking High Wire and Sex Drive on the end of Flashpoint or mixing up Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, and Stealing My Heart on the second half of 40 Licks or tossing Doom and Gloom and One More Shot randomly on the second half of Grrr. I can't imagine it happening, as the Furry One declared, it's a terrible rumor.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 18, 2022 22:15

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Yes, can you imagine? It would be like tacking High Wire and Sex Drive on the end of Flashpoint or mixing up Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, and Stealing My Heart on the second half of 40 Licks or tossing Doom and Gloom and One More Shot randomly on the second half of Grrr. I can't imagine it happening, as the Furry One declared, it's a terrible rumor.

LOL...as I already said, I could totally seem them doing this, but hope that wiser heads prevail.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 19, 2022 01:40

Quote
maumau
yep we've heard that one sometimes followed by a "lot of WRITING new stuff lately"
just DO NOT put Charlie's last contribution in a GRRR like cauldron, that would be too much

Hopefully Charlie gets the full respect he rightfully deserves on the new album, and it's more than just a nod to his memory.
Hard to imagine they ever would include his last recorded studio contributions on to another lame compilation ala Licks, GRRR, and HONK.

To quote Charlie from way back in Feb. 2018 when he and Ronnie were being interviewed by Clash Magazine, and discussing the multiple recording sessions they've done on the supposed new album:

"Don't know where the new album is now, do you"?

Charlie always wanted the new album to be finished like most of us have, and to stick him on a compilation would be insulting to him, and a slap in the face to the fans.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-19 01:44 by Hairball.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: December 19, 2022 02:20

As far I Know the band is still working on the album and no decision was made about the release of the stuff, according to sources they have at least 5-6 GREAT songs with Charlie on it, that was stuff recorded in 2018-2019 and about a dozen of new cuts with Steve.

My bet is a basic album release with 12 or so new songs and many additional versions with bonus tracks, just like every act release their stuff nowadays to sell the same album as many times as posible.

- Basic album with 12 songs
- Special edition with 2 bonus tracks (Target)
- Special editions with different bonus tracks on each one
- Digital Version with all the songs thrown in

Something like this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-19 02:21 by georgelicks.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: December 19, 2022 03:53

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Yes, can you imagine? It would be like tacking High Wire and Sex Drive on the end of Flashpoint or mixing up Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, and Stealing My Heart on the second half of 40 Licks or tossing Doom and Gloom and One More Shot randomly on the second half of Grrr. I can't imagine it happening, as the Furry One declared, it's a terrible rumor.

Well, only if this information is correct in every detail. 3-4 years (!) ago, I shared the information here in this thread that work on the new album also inluded a handful of outtakes reaching back as far as Steel Wheels, and these have of course Charlie on drums.

Now with georgelicks' actual info in mind that they have at least 5-6 great songs with Charlie from 2018-2019 and about a dozen new cuts with Steve, these outtakes from 1989 to ? don't seem to be really needed anymore for the new album, so I would not rule the possibility out that Universal has the idea to tack them onto a new Greatest Hits compilation or a bonus disc of such a compilation, just like the expanded editions of Exile, Some Girls, Sticky Fingers, GHS and Tattoo You had bonus discs. Could make sense, in particular as an incentive for us old fans to buy a new Hits compilation again. Think "Honk"!

Of course, these outtakes would have Charlie on them, but they would not be "Charlie's last" in this case. These, from 2018-2019, would be saved for the "new album". I could live with that!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-19 04:04 by retired_dog.

Re: New Stones album for 2023
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 19, 2022 07:53

Hopefully Keith's words of "You haven't heard the last of Charlie Watts" remain true.

This Thread has been closed

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