sorry, nothing to see here (wrong thread)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-10 03:49 by 35love.

Weird how Mick went from being so prolific
'93 Wandering Spirit
'94 Voodoo Lounge
'97 Bridges
'00 Goddess
'02 Licks Tracks
'04 Alfie
'05 Bang

To:
'08 singing over some Exile outtakes
'09 some contributions to Super Heavy
'12 two tracks
'17 two tracks

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Send It To me
Weird how Mick went from being so prolific
'93 Wandering Spirit
'94 Voodoo Lounge
'97 Bridges
'00 Goddess
'02 Licks Tracks
'04 Alfie
'05 Bang

To:
'08 singing over some Exile outtakes
'09 some contributions to Super Heavy
'12 two tracks
'17 two tracks

For someone who claims to be constantly writing (not to mention the 40 demos he boasted about) - yes it seems odd that his actual output has kind of waned off in recent years.
Might be time to bust out of that slump either with some more solo material and/or an album with the Stones. Or even another Superheavy type collaboration.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Careful, he might sing you a Xmas card ...

Maybe he'll bring Keith and they'll sing a rockin' version of Winter Wonderland.



_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Ah, Keith, he'll do Run Rudolph Run fer sure ...

Ok, besides Keith walking into Mayberry, I vote this has become the craziest thread on IORR.

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Hairball

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Send It To me
Weird how Mick went from being so prolific
'93 Wandering Spirit
'94 Voodoo Lounge
'97 Bridges
'00 Goddess
'02 Licks Tracks
'04 Alfie
'05 Bang

To:
'08 singing over some Exile outtakes
'09 some contributions to Super Heavy
'12 two tracks
'17 two tracks

For someone who claims to be constantly writing (not to mention the 40 demos he boasted about) - yes it seems odd that his actual output has kind of waned off in recent years.
Might be time to bust out of that slump either with some more solo material and/or an album with the Stones. Or even another Superheavy type collaboration.

his output has kept up in some areas

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

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Palace Revolution 2000
Ok, besides Keith walking into Mayberry, I vote this has become the craziest thread on IORR.

It just reflects the many facets of the album-to-be

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IanBillen

_____________________________________


Or better yet .. why does everyone make excuses FOR Mick & Keith.? Why does everyone say to those who call The Stones out on it .. say they are being selfish or harsh .. or not understanding enough?


The Stones aren't on their death beds ( ... folks.


Oh yes .. and btw .. they have negotiated a record contract for a couple million and the label is expecting an album .. not to mention the fact that they started one three years ago (at least).


So then .. Whats the problem of saying Yo .. get the album out already .. its been 13/ 14 years?

Not understanding why people cut them so much slack on that .. and not understanding why they think people are selfish simply bc they want what they say they are working on for so long? lol


Pa-leeeeese.

I TOTALLY agree with this. They are either CREATIVE MUSICAL artists or they're not. If they're not, they ARE just the world's most expensive oldies or nostalgia act. And enough is enough... Yes, they ARE still, in the main, great on stage, but it IS now the same old, same old. Jagger himself says he never wants to be an oldies act. Yet he now seemingly is content to be so. Keith says he loves the studio... Why? If what he does in there never sees the light of day?

Look, I don't expect another Exile or Sticky or Bleed. But I would love another album just to throw up, possibly, a couple of gems. But at least a new album WOULD be new, and show the world they are still creative artists

Am I being selfish in wanting the band I have followed for over 50 years to BE a band, a creative band? Creating music, not just visual extravaganzas to showcase their back catalogue? They're going out with a visual whimper it seems...

Rod

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Send It To me
Weird how Mick went from being so prolific
'93 Wandering Spirit
'94 Voodoo Lounge
'97 Bridges
'00 Goddess
'02 Licks Tracks
'04 Alfie
'05 Bang

To:
'08 singing over some Exile outtakes
'09 some contributions to Super Heavy
'12 two tracks
'17 two tracks

2011 SOME GIRLS extras...

Happy to maybe get The Dog and some other outtakes soon..rather than a new album in 20???.
Jeroen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-11 08:25 by corriecas.

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Hairball

Quote
Send It To me
Weird how Mick went from being so prolific
'93 Wandering Spirit
'94 Voodoo Lounge
'97 Bridges
'00 Goddess
'02 Licks Tracks
'04 Alfie
'05 Bang

To:
'08 singing over some Exile outtakes
'09 some contributions to Super Heavy
'12 two tracks
'17 two tracks

For someone who claims to be constantly writing (not to mention the 40 demos he boasted about) - yes it seems odd that his actual output has kind of waned off in recent years.
Might be time to bust out of that slump either with some more solo material and/or an album with the Stones. Or even another Superheavy type collaboration.

He should probably have followed David Stewart's advice and put out all these demos (certainly quite listenable as is) on the cloud years ago and broken some new ground.

The problem is that there's been talk of a new Stones album ever since they reconvened in 2012 so these songs were saved for that...for nothing as we've found.

The only reason we got GGAG and and EL is probably because Keith flat out turned them down. So fans got the worst possible "deal", the "good" (style we like) songs in limbo because not "great" enough and crap released to "test" the response.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

This little fellow in the picture,could IT be Keithsmen?

on Pandora....the other day...Sweet Thing..(forgotten how good that jagger song is)...and followed by Burried Alive.(backing vox)..just reminded me how @#$%& good Jagger is...if he wants to be.

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Witness

How I read the term 'Keithette' in its heyday after Doxa conned it almost as a concept: It was not at all about Keith fans as such. Instead it concerned a certain ideological bias for arguments in favour of Keith and at the cost of others, especially Mick. That bias tends to establish different standards in explanations and in more or less moral judgements of Stones members' doings. Only few Keith fans would then be marked by that idelogical bias much of the time, but, allegedly, some more posters also will from time to time as an exception to their other normal points of view.

Whether Doxa still will find the term topical, or if it for him belonged to a context of its own, I really don't know.

I guess I need to comment this since the term is popped up again.

Yep, Witness captures the use of the term aptly - actually better than I could do... I picked it up after seeing Lem using it, and I started theoretizing it a bit further, since I saw it funnily capturing a way of thinking and arguing I didn't have yet a term for. I never thought anyone would be annoyed by it - or can not see the irony of it. Seemingly many people don't have a skin like Jagger does... But I stopped using it since I saw it caused more damage done than having explanatory role, and I don't have any intent to offend anyone. Especially people who weren't at all targated by the use of it (and, as I said, it was never targeted any person but a certain way of thinking, an 'idealogy' as Witness says).

So forget the politically incorrect term - it is what is meant by it, which still counts...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-11 16:24 by Doxa.

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GasLightStreet

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Send It To me
Weird how Mick went from being so prolific
'93 Wandering Spirit
'94 Voodoo Lounge
'97 Bridges
'00 Goddess
'02 Licks Tracks
'04 Alfie
'05 Bang

To:
'08 singing over some Exile outtakes
'09 some contributions to Super Heavy
'12 two tracks
'17 two tracks

2011 SOME GIRLS extras...

Plus what was the single he did what that country dude? But the truth is that anyway you like it, one cannot say Jagger's been very profilic since the mid 00's....


Anyway, it is a bit downplaying the contribution of Jagger into EXILE deluxe by labeling as "singing over"... He basically created all the lyrics and melodies of such pieces as "Plundered My Soul" and "Following The River", most likely having just a pretty sketchy backing track (if not even that) to start from. Basically that is many times what Jagger contribution in a classical Jagger/Richards song colloboration is. So he was there full creative cylinders on. From the interview he made at the time it sounds that actually put more creative energy into that EXILE project that he does for a normal (at least a Stones) current project...

It is a bit ironic that Jagger is so motivated to build up a song around of such an archaic, old developed Richards riff a'la "Plundered My Soul" (and thereby, me thinks, coming up with the greatest Jagger/Richards song since TATTOO YOU days), but seemingly not with what the guy currently offers... Could it be the case (a) Keith's riffs aren't so good any longer; (b) Mick thinks that the time and place for those was during those EXILE days, but not any longer; (c) he simply sees, probably after the experience of "Plundered", the process of completing the songs just asking too much work...

But then again, what prevents in a theory Richards from saying Jordan 'go home' and Jagger 'stay home' and asking Charlie and Ronnie with Darryl to come over to record some backing tracks with him. And then send them to Jagger wherever he might be. But for some reason Charlie and Ronnie seem to work only when Jagger is involved, be Keith there or not. This is also a kind of development that I have never really understood why. The creative bond between Keith and Ronnie broke a long time ago (80's?), as seemed to happen with Charlie and Keith as well. Probably these days the simple problem might be that of Keith and the rest living in a different continent, and of these old men Mick is about the only guy who bothers ocasionally to fly between... But it looks like that had been the situaion since VOODOO LOUNGE days, if not even earlier (since DIRTY WORK?).

Oh shit, just speculating and wasting time here in this thread with no any real substance... new album, new album some day to come....

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-11 17:46 by Doxa.

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Doxa
…………………

But then again, what prevents in a theory Richards from saying Jordan 'go home' and Jagger 'stay home' and asking Charlie and Ronnie with Darryl to come over to record some backing tracks with him. And then send them to Jagger wherever he might be. But for some reason Charlie and Ronnie seem to work only when Jagger is involved, be Keith there or not. This is also a kind of development that I have never really understood why. The creative bond between Keith and Ronnie broke a long time ago (80's?), as seemed to happen with Charlie and Keith as well. Probably these days the simple problem might be that of Keith and the rest living in a different continent, and of these old men Mick is about the only guy who bothers ocasionally to fly between... But it looks like that had been the situaion since VOODOO LOUNGE days, if not even earlier (since DIRTY WORK?).

……………………………………………………………...

- Doxa

Wow, those were mighty interesting observations, Doxa, at least to me. I was not aware of those, not at all!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-11 18:37 by Witness.

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Doxa

So forget the politically incorrect term - it is what is meant by it, which still counts...

- Doxa

Which must mean that while the concept will be left behind, the phenomenon remains and from time to time is going to reappear. One is got to live with it.

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Witness

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Doxa

So forget the politically incorrect term - it is what is meant by it, which still counts...

- Doxa

Which must mean that while the concept will be left behind, the phenomenon remains and from time to time is going to reappear. One is got to live with it.

Well, that's what instructed in IORR Survival Kit of Doxa's Poodles....

- Doxa

Voff, voff! ( the sound of a poodle in Norwegian)

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Doxa
But then again, what prevents in a theory Richards from saying Jordan 'go home' and Jagger 'stay home' and asking Charlie and Ronnie with Darryl to come over to record some backing tracks with him. And then send them to Jagger wherever he might be. But for some reason Charlie and Ronnie seem to work only when Jagger is involved, be Keith there or not. This is also a kind of development that I have never really understood why. The creative bond between Keith and Ronnie broke a long time ago (80's?), as seemed to happen with Charlie and Keith as well. Probably these days the simple problem might be that of Keith and the rest living in a different continent, and of these old men Mick is about the only guy who bothers ocasionally to fly between... But it looks like that had been the situaion since VOODOO LOUNGE days, if not even earlier (since DIRTY WORK?).

Oh shit, just speculating and wasting time here in this thread with no any real substance... new album, new album some day to come....

- Doxa

Well, one thing that often struck me when I witnessed the Stones "behind the scenes" is that I rarely had the impression of a "band" as they present themselves in public, be it on promo images or on stage, like the final bows at the end of their shows. There were always two visible "camps" - Richards/Wood and Jagger/Watts with virtually little to none communication between Richards and Jagger. I won't elaborate any further than this. Take it for what you want, if only to get a glimpse that and possibly why the days of putting the whole band into a studio, jamming endlessly, developing whatever rudimental stuff into a finished song by winging it for days and days are long gone. My impression is that it's not only Mick who is not too keen on this working method anymore, so "Jordan & Jagger stay home" doesn't seem to be a possible way out.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-11 22:37 by retired_dog.

My 2 cents: Richards is 75 going on 76. Jagger is 75 going on 25. Bless them both but doesn't help with collaborating most of the time

There is a very simple solution to this much discussed "creativity" problem :

Ghostwriters

The glimmers could set aside their pride and pay professionals to write new songs and pay them to put Jagger/Richards on them. This is done a lot more than you might imagine in the music business. There are literally thousands of starving song-writers out there. Everyone has his price.

Maindefender is right. They're in their mid-70's, and they've been around the world a thousand times. I don't suspect they've got a ton of exuberant creative energy these days. They'll likely have something to put out at some point from these odd studio sessions in recent years, but it looks like the days of going into the studio to crank out an album and promote it with a tour are long gone. They just tour when they feel like it. The sets have been largely the same for 20 years, and in 20 years they have put out exactly one complete album.

They gave us some great stuff over the years, and I'm thankful for that, but I've come to terms with the evidence; they are (rightfully) tired, and they are not a creative force anymore.

For me, the most exciting part of The Rolling Stones are seeing them perform live.
Has been that way forever, and still is.

Of course, we all would love a new album.
But to say that they've lost creativity, either as individuals or as a band, is overlooking a ton of... creativity. The shows themselves are a testament to that.

Since 2012 they've circled the globe numerous times and "created" the best live shows most have ever been to. Everything from the art to the stages to the guests, to the cities, to the rarities, to the club shows,to the merch, to the B&L album and other covers, to the solo endeavors, in music and elsewhere, to the vault and special releases, to the concert films, they've "created" and much more.

If I had to choose right now, new music, or a new tour, I'd take the tour every time. So much more than a concert, they've created. Sure, both would be fantastic, but I am grateful for the band for continuing the ride, in whatever fashion they choose and works for them. Respecting that they all have very full lives, and are at the age where they should be expected to slow down and enjoy the fruits of their labor, they continue to create these events is beyond awesome. Cheerleader some say? Absolutely and proudly I reply.

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Tate
Maindefender is right. They're in their mid-70's, and they've been around the world a thousand times. I don't suspect they've got a ton of exuberant creative energy these days. They'll likely have something to put out at some point from these odd studio sessions in recent years, but it looks like the days of going into the studio to crank out an album and promote it with a tour are long gone. They just tour when they feel like it. The sets have been largely the same for 20 years, and in 20 years they have put out exactly one complete album.

They gave us some great stuff over the years, and I'm thankful for that, but I've come to terms with the evidence; they are (rightfully) tired, and they are not a creative force anymore.

The last time was - and shall remain - 2005 with A BIGGER BANG.

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bitusa2012
They are either CREATIVE MUSICAL artists or they're not. If they're not, they ARE just the world's most expensive oldies or nostalgia act. And enough is enough... Yes, they ARE still, in the main, great on stage, but it IS now the same old, same old. Jagger himself says he never wants to be an oldies act. Yet he now seemingly is content to be so. Keith says he loves the studio... Why? If what he does in there never sees the light of day?

Look, I don't expect another Exile or Sticky or Bleed. But I would love another album just to throw up, possibly, a couple of gems. But at least a new album WOULD be new, and show the world they are still creative artists

Am I being selfish in wanting the band I have followed for over 50 years to BE a band, a creative band? Creating music, not just visual extravaganzas to showcase their back catalogue? They're going out with a visual whimper it seems...

Valid points you make here.

Looking forward to seeing the oldies/nostalgia act again, but really a shame they can't get some new music together. Even a single new song or two would give them more credibility/relevancy amongst those of us who value musical creativity vs. a circus atmosphere of experiencing all the oldies again and again. But oh well, that's the way the Stones roll these days...same old, same old...I've accepted it and glad they keep on rolling...
That said, never give up hope for some new material. Against all odds, miracles can happen!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

The real reason about the lack of new stuff in the last 10-15 years is not so hard to explain:

1 - They are old and not inspired anymore
2 - 90% of their earnings are from touring
3 - With a 19 warhorse loaded setlist there's no room or need of new stuff
4 - Album sales are a thing from the past, selling 2 million copies today means nothing when a rapper or a pop act can get 200 million streams in a single week, it's all about streaming and old acts are not strong there, during lifetime at least, streams for old acts are great only when you're dead and thankfully the Stones are not there yet.
5 - They are a "brand" not a "band" anymore, a new album is another item to sell and way less important than a t-shirt
6 - They don't want to release an endless string of albums as Neil Young or Van Morrison, albums that peak at #20-#30 on the charts and are long gone after a week, too much work to keep 50,000-100,000 die hard fans happy. Let's tour instead.
7 - Mick's latest releases in the U.S. peaked at #39 (GITD), #171 (Alfie), #77 (Best Of) and #26 (Superheavy), he don't want to release another solo low charting album, again, too much work to keep 50,000-100,000 die hard fans happy. Let's tour with the Stones instead.


On their own words, Mick and Charlie about a new album in 2013, over 5 years ago:

Mick: It would be nice to have a new album, but people don't like the new album when you play it on stage. They glumly look at you. OK, it will be over in a minute. It's not a good excuse, but it's the truth and has to be said.
I have a lot of songs and I’d love to do some more recording with the band. But we’re going to get through the tour first and then see what happens... I'm working all the time, doing songs and writing. I hope there will be another Stones album. It would be good if there was.

Charlie: There's nothing yet. I've lost track with the record industry world, I don't get it any more. It's gone beyond me. The last single I thought was very good, but things don't mean anything any more. They're just tacked on the end of a reissue – and that ends up selling more than a new album... People say you need a new album out when you go on tour. Well, we did that on our last tour, and I don't know if the record sold. I suppose, as Mick says, it gives us something different to play on stage. It's not Brown Sugar again.


After 5-6 years they are always there: "we’re going to get through the tour first and then see what happens..."


With all that said, the only thing that bothers me, or can't understand actually, is why don't release a 2 track single every year? Or a 4 track EP every 2-3 years?

There's no need for a full album, but a couple of new songs each year is great IMO, the Stones' album catalog won't get hurt with that, it's not a full album, so I really don't get it.

With only 3-4 days in the studio each year, no more than that, they can record 2 songs quick and simple, just like Doom And Gloom and One More Shot, and release it right before each tour, sadly they (and we) missed 2 new songs each year during 2014-15-16-17-18, about 10-12 new songs since 2012, without the need or pressure of a full new album.

Mick did it last year, nobody cared (he neither, nothing was released this year) but it's the right direction in this streaming era.

Georgelicks,

All of this is no doubt true, but if I may quibble: the Stones hold their own quite well in the streaming market — better in fact than their peers. That said, any new singles they theoretically might release would attract a fraction of the streams that SFTD and Gimme Shelter do.

Even in the brave new world of digital marketing, they still end up competing with themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-12 02:10 by MelBelli.