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Hairball
Just relaying whatever info. is available, and whether it's truth, hogwash (or balderdash lol) depends on how one wants to interpret it all.
Again, I see no reason to doubt the source, but can understand why someone might think it's nonsense.

As for my first thought when reading it, I posted that it seemed odd Keith would refuse as it's not much of a stretch to see it as a Stones song - it sounds like a demo or leftover from any Stones album from the past few decades. I compared it to other oddball Mick tunes that have made it on to Stones albums, most of which Keith contributed to, so why would he refuse to play on this? Is he just being a stubborn old fart?

____________________________________________________________________

edit: Here's the entire quote from georgelicks I cited above which adds more context, and I should have included it in the first place.
Again, just relaying whatever info. is available:

Quote
georgelicks
I can tell from my source that both songs were from the Stones' sessions for the new album, both Ronnie and Charlie are on it but Keith refused to play, just like he did not play on Saint Of Me.
Both songs were re-worked as Mick Jagger solo songs, Universal wanted something out to test the market and keep the hype about the new album and Mick was happy to put something out.
There are more songs like these from the 15 or so new songs recorded so far, but it looks like Keith wants a classic Rolling Stones sounding album, no dance or experimental stuff on it so there's the fight for the final cut of the new album.

Hey, HB. The only reason I originally commented was because you wrote:

So here we are...none of us know much about what's happening, yet in no particular order we do know they hit a wall, released some blues covers, have been back in the studio in spurts, Keith refused to play on Getta Grip, Mick released it on his own, Ronnie claims they have some songs finished (questionable), and the new tour starts in less than a month which really seems to be the only bright light in this entire saga.

I didn't see this as merely 'relaying information;' it seemed to me more like a recitation of commonly accepted facts that "we do know." And so I was curious about how Keith's refusal had been elevated to the same level of "factdom" as the Stones starting a tour.

In any event, I guess it's all just down to whether that statement from georgelicks makes sense to you. I'm afraid I don't even know what a "classic Rolling Stones sounding album" sounds like. Does it sound like Beggars Banquet? Aftermath? Some Girls? Would "Ruby Tuesday" be too experimental? Would "Miss You" be too dancey? Would it consist of nothing but "All Down the Line" and "Slipping Away" clones?

Ultimately, though, the statement that "Universal wanted something out to test the market and keep the hype about the new album" is perhaps the hardest to understand. Wouldn't they put out a Stones single to do this? Is there not ONE of the "15 or so new songs" that the band and label could agree to release to 'test the market'? They had to dredge up this Mick demo/Keith reject to maintain "the hype about the new album"? (And, btw, there is no hype' most normal non message board people are completely unaware of all the drama around The Supposed Album.)

As always, all of this is my woefully uninformed two cents ...

Just hope they will take time to work on the new songs, during the rehearsals.
I dont mind if the new album will take a little bit longer, just as long as it will not be BTB2.
Jeroen

If Mick really wanted the Stones to work on these songs and Keith refused, then that reflects poorly on him, imo.
Since they don't have a real partnership these days, they ought to be able to split the song ideas. Each one pick five or six of their own ideas and then all work on those together.
The Miss You track came up for discussion again; Keith didn't like that one, but did his part to make it work.

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LongBeachArena72

Quote
Hairball
Just relaying whatever info. is available, and whether it's truth, hogwash (or balderdash lol) depends on how one wants to interpret it all.
Again, I see no reason to doubt the source, but can understand why someone might think it's nonsense.

As for my first thought when reading it, I posted that it seemed odd Keith would refuse as it's not much of a stretch to see it as a Stones song - it sounds like a demo or leftover from any Stones album from the past few decades. I compared it to other oddball Mick tunes that have made it on to Stones albums, most of which Keith contributed to, so why would he refuse to play on this? Is he just being a stubborn old fart?

____________________________________________________________________

edit: Here's the entire quote from georgelicks I cited above which adds more context, and I should have included it in the first place.
Again, just relaying whatever info. is available:

Quote
georgelicks
I can tell from my source that both songs were from the Stones' sessions for the new album, both Ronnie and Charlie are on it but Keith refused to play, just like he did not play on Saint Of Me.
Both songs were re-worked as Mick Jagger solo songs, Universal wanted something out to test the market and keep the hype about the new album and Mick was happy to put something out.
There are more songs like these from the 15 or so new songs recorded so far, but it looks like Keith wants a classic Rolling Stones sounding album, no dance or experimental stuff on it so there's the fight for the final cut of the new album.

Hey, HB. The only reason I originally commented was because you wrote:

So here we are...none of us know much about what's happening, yet in no particular order we do know they hit a wall, released some blues covers, have been back in the studio in spurts, Keith refused to play on Getta Grip, Mick released it on his own, Ronnie claims they have some songs finished (questionable), and the new tour starts in less than a month which really seems to be the only bright light in this entire saga.

I didn't see this as merely 'relaying information;' it seemed to me more like a recitation of commonly accepted facts that "we do know." And so I was curious about how Keith's refusal had been elevated to the same level of "factdom" as the Stones starting a tour.

In any event, I guess it's all just down to whether that statement from georgelicks makes sense to you. I'm afraid I don't even know what a "classic Rolling Stones sounding album" sounds like. Does it sound like Beggars Banquet? Aftermath? Some Girls? Would "Ruby Tuesday" be too experimental? Would "Miss You" be too dancey? Would it consist of nothing but "All Down the Line" and "Slipping Away" clones?

Ultimately, though, the statement that "Universal wanted something out to test the market and keep the hype about the new album" is perhaps the hardest to understand. Wouldn't they put out a Stones single to do this? Is there not ONE of the "15 or so new songs" that the band and label could agree to release to 'test the market'? They had to dredge up this Mick demo/Keith reject to maintain "the hype about the new album"? (And, btw, there is no hype' most normal non message board people are completely unaware of all the drama around The Supposed Album.)

As always, all of this is my woefully uninformed two cents ...

I was giving a general list of what I assumed were commonly accepted facts (based on info. that has been presented), and what georgelicks originally wrote regarding "Keith refused to play", and when you asked if this was a fact I relayed the info. by giving the exact quote. I then said it is up for debate whether it's absolutely true or not, but I see no reason to doubt it. Just as I would say "the sky is blue" or "the earth is round" stated as a fact, there will always be some who think otherwise. I can't prove if keith refusing to play is true (or whether the sky is blue or the earth is round), just basing my opinion on what was written, documented, and relaying that quote as evidence. I suppose I could have said "what some of us believe as fact" or "what I know as fact" rather than implying it's a commonly accepted fact that "we do know" as evidently there are some doubters regarding the quote, but didn't think all of that was necessary. Or I could have just added IMO, and that might have made it clear.

As for Keith battling it out for the "classic Rolling Stones sounding album", I'm not exactly sure what he's fighting for...maybe he's hoping they would use the minimal production and simplistic approach of Blue and Lonesome (recorded in two or three days) and his own Crosseyed Heart with it's retro/classic feel without all of the contemporary bells and whistles as a starting point.

There's this story which has been posted various times in this thread, but it does shed some light on the situation:

Keith Richards takes swipe at Sir Mick Jagger

Keith Richards has taken a swipe at Sir Mick Jagger's songwriting skills.

The 72-year-old rocker doesn't care that his Rolling Stones bandmate has already penned 40 new tracks for a potential new record as he would rather do something "really interesting" than be as "prolific" as the singer.
He told Uncut magazine of Mick's 40 songs: "Being prolific don't mean s**t.
"I've got three songs and they're dynamite. I don't want to make any decisions about this until the record comes out because I think it might change Mick's attitude, it might change mine.
"I want to see the fallout from this record before I decide whether I want to record 40 of Mick's songs or whether he wants to sit down with me and record some songs together. That's my thing. That's my ball there.
"I've got a few songs on the back burner and so does Mick - he writes a lot. I don't.
"I tend to concentrate on two or three really interesting riffs or ideas, rather than being prolific."
And after returning to their roots with upcoming blues covers album 'Blue & Lonesome', Sir Mick is now keen to take the band in a new direction.
He said: "I was writing last night at the end of the baseball match.
"I sat watching the World Series, playing my guitar. But I think it would be nice to do new songs and go in a new direction with them."

__________________________________________________________________________

Then after the success of Blue and Lonesome:

Keith Richards Says ‘It Wouldn’t Take a Twist of the Arm’ for the Rolling Stones to Make Another Blues Album

Keith Richards says the Rolling Stones are about to head back into the studio to start recording their long-promised new album.
The band has been hinting at this new LP, its first record of original studio material since 2005’s A Bigger Bang, for a while now. Plans were put on hold last year when the Stones released a covers album consisting of blues songs, Blue & Lonesome, that spontaneously came together during sessions for the next studio record.
Richards sat down for an installment of “Ask Keith Richards,” which you can watch above, and was asked: “Are you inspired to get back in the studio with the Stones and do some more recording?”
“Yes, we are — very, very shortly,” he replied. “Cutting some new stuff and considering where to take it next. Blue & Lonesome caught us a little bit by surprise in that we figured it was something we had to do, but we didn’t expect the response.” Richards pointed out that the positive response to the album leads to the question of the “inevitable volume two.” “I don’t think we’re going to sucker into that straight away,” he said. “But it wouldn’t take a twist of the arm to do some more of that. It’s such fun to record, and there’s plenty more where that came from.”
Blue & Lonesome, the Stones’ best-reviewed album since the ’80s, has revived the band, Richards added. He explained that they’re using it as a “boost to their energy” and that it’s encouraged their “viability” as they move forward.

________________________________________________________________________________

Make of that what you will, but seems Keith is hellbent on having his way...whether its' a "classic Rolling Stones sounding album" (whatever that is), or even a Blue and Lonesome volume II - hence the Keith refusing to play on certain tracks makes sense.

As for the "Universal wanted something out to test the market and keep the hype about the new album" statement, I don't know exactly what the strategy is as I have no knowledge of the inner workings of all that. Just speculating, but maybe it was used as an experiment to see what kind of success it would have, and if it was successful maybe it would have been used as leverage and Keith could have been coerced in to giving Mick's "new" direction a chance. As for why they couldn't have just released a Stone single for this purpose, maybe they don't have a completed single under the Stones name worth releasing and/or one they can all agree on, so both songs were re-worked as Mick Jagger solo songs.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
wonderboy
... Each one pick five or six of their own ideas and then all work on those together.

Won't work, possibly. Keith's got only three riffs (dynamite, though) ...

Imagine a couple who have been married forever and who tend to bicker. They bicker at home. They bicker at parties. They complain about the other behind their back when they're with friends or family. Now imagine people who don't really know them well. Maybe they're work colleagues of one of them only. They catch a glimpse of a comment from the husband or a remark from the wife and from that determine the marriage is coming apart rapidly. They discuss this among other friends and it grows and grows. Eventually it reaches the couple who are bemused and think, "What idiot thinks they know us so well to make up something like that?"

That is fandom drawing conclusions on the new Stones album.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Imagine a couple who have been married forever and who tend to bicker. They bicker at home. They bicker at parties. They complain about the other behind their back when they're with friends or family. Now imagine people who don't really know them well. Maybe they're work colleagues of one of them only. They catch a glimpse of a comment from the husband or a remark from the wife and from that determine the marriage is coming apart rapidly. They discuss this among other friends and it grows and grows. Eventually it reaches the couple who are bemused and think, "What idiot thinks they know us so well to make up something like that?"

That is fandom drawing conclusions on the new Stones album.

Mike drop

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Rocky Dijon
Eventually it reaches the couple who are bemused and think, "What idiot thinks they know us so well to make up something like that?"

Funny Rocky, but in this case you have publicized quotes which shows they're not really on the same page regarding the new album.
One thinks "it would be nice to do new songs and go in a new direction with them", while the other would be content with another Blue and Lonesome saying "there’s plenty more where that came from".

And then you have one writing a book and telling the entire world "I used to love 'him', but I haven't been to his dressing room in 20 years", and "it was the beginning of the eighties when 'he' started to become unbearable". Regarding the others work, one says: "It's like Mein Kampf - everyone had it, but no-one read it." If that isn't telling enough, he goes on to say that person has a tiny todger!

So after reading all that, what else is an "idiot" to think? That the couple are all lovey dovey and the new album is being worked on in perfect harmony?


Is this what we're supposed to believe is happening?

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-22 04:47 by Hairball.

Yeah, this is a couple who have barely worked in the studio together since Bridges to Babylon, and that was contentious, plus as Lem as pointed out, there are no pictures of them socializing away from the studio in decades. I think the state of their relationship is understood.

Still wish you guys could drag it back to the "brickwall" subject ....



ROCKMAN

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doitywoik

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wonderboy
... Each one pick five or six of their own ideas and then all work on those together.

Won't work, possibly. Keith's got only three riffs (dynamite, though) ...

Keith could rework each of his 3 dynamite riffs twice - therefore having six - as he always HAS done!!! ;-)

Rod

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Rockman

Still wish you guys could drag it back to the "brickwall" subject ...

I knew it. It's back to the original argument for those two. How much dynamic compression should we put on this thing? Do we want to sound more modern with the in-your-face loudness, maybe score a big hit, or do we want to give it some depth and warmth?

I wonder who said what.. ;-)

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Hairball
Funny Rocky, but in this case you have publicized quotes which shows they're not really on the same page regarding the new album.
So after reading all that, what else is an "idiot" to think? That the couple are all lovey dovey and the new album is being worked on in perfect harmony?

Of course not, Hairball. I compared them to a bickering old married couple for a reason, though. Such relationships aren't healthy or loving, but they often endure just the same. And the reaction when others point out it's unhealthy and seems headed for a split is a defensive reaction like "what idiot thinks they know us?" I engage in the same kind of speculation as everyone is doing here. I have done so online for 20 years already. Are any of us right some of the time? Sure. Are Jagger/Richards part of an unhealthy relationship that endures and will still give us a new album in 2018? Sure.

Why so, @Rockman? Has any of the two claimed the other one had a tiny brickwall?

In earlier days, Keith often talked about finding out where the journey would take them. Now we are finding out where this thread will take us while we're waiting.

None of us really knows anything about the actual progress of (or in) the sessions, apart perhaps from a chosen few. So we dawdle away speculating and trying to make sense of a handful of quotes from the band members. What else could we do (other than perhaps simply shutting up, which whoever runs counter to the idea of a forum)?

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Rocky Dijon

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Hairball
Funny Rocky, but in this case you have publicized quotes which shows they're not really on the same page regarding the new album.
So after reading all that, what else is an "idiot" to think? That the couple are all lovey dovey and the new album is being worked on in perfect harmony?

Of course not, Hairball. I compared them to a bickering old married couple for a reason, though. Such relationships aren't healthy or loving, but they often endure just the same. And the reaction when others point out it's unhealthy and seems headed for a split is a defensive reaction like "what idiot thinks they know us?" I engage in the same kind of speculation as everyone is doing here. I have done so online for 20 years already. Are any of us right some of the time? Sure. Are Jagger/Richards part of an unhealthy relationship that endures and will still give us a new album in 2018? Sure.

Understood, and they're probably tight like brothers (or an old married couple) when faced with that kind of outsider criticism, but no ones been talking about them "headed for a split"...just speculating about "hitting the wall", "being prolific don't mean shit" vs. "three dynamite riffs", "new direction" vs. "old direction", etc., etc., etc....things they probably discuss themselves when trying to record the new album, so it's not something they would outright call someone else an idiot for discussing or thinking about those issues imo.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Chuck re-tweeted an old post today (from July) re a RS article quoting Keith on studio time.
Thought the timing of the re-tweet was a bit odd..unless something cooking in that regard..

Chuck Leavell? @ChuckLeavell 18m18 minutes ago
More
Keith Richards: Rolling Stones Back in Studio ‘Very Shortly’ [ow.ly]


[twitter.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-22 18:13 by MisterDDDD.

More ill-timed news. "Chuck" needs to hire a new Tweeter.

You don't know what's going on
You've been away for far too long
You can't come back and think you are still mine
You're out of touch, my baby
My poor discarded baby
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
You are all left out
Out of there without a doubt
'Cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
A girl who wants to run away, discovers that she's had her day
It's no good thinking that you are still mine
You're out of touch, my baby, my poor unfaithful baby
I said baby, baby, baby you're out of time
Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
You are all left out
Out of there without a doubt
'Cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
You thought you were a clever girl giving up your social whirl
But you can't come back and be the first in line
You're obsolete, my baby, my poor old fashioned baby
I said baby, baby, baby you're out of time
Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Yes, you are all left out
Out of there without a doubt
'Cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
_______________________________________________________

Love this one; they should re-do it for "Another Stones studio album in 2018."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-22 18:39 by hopkins.

....and as Mick's new single appears to be 'not troubling the charts' , will it alter Mick's or Universal's view on what direction the new album should take?

Quote
MisterDDDD
Chuck re-tweeted an old post today (from July) re a RS article quoting Keith on studio time.
Thought the timing of the re-tweet was a bit odd..unless something cooking in that regard..

Chuck Leavell? @ChuckLeavell 18m18 minutes ago
More
Keith Richards: Rolling Stones Back in Studio ‘Very Shortly’ [ow.ly]


[twitter.com]

The Stones are trying to keep the hype (and hope) alive!

Maybe they'll try and record something new in between rehearsals?
Might be a good idea to keep the tapes rolling just in case something grabs them...a "dynamite riff" or maybe something "experimental"...and hopefully something they can all agree upon.

Nothing against Micks single, but if it was supposedly designed to keep the hype alive for a new album (as had been mentioned), it didn't really help keep anything alive.
Now band members and press are rehashing old news and quotes from the past year when there really was some hype...never give up hope!

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

That's really it exactly. Chuck's tweet, Keith's comment, the pieces that PR put out to Rolling Stone and New Musical Express recycling old news. It isn't meant for us...the fanatics on message boards who analyze every note of music, every lyric, every sound bite to assemble a coherent narrative.

The average fan heard they were in the studio and then bought BLUE AND LONESOME maybe. Now circulate the same stories so that as they start the tour the story is they'll start work on an album after the tour. We treat every morsel as pieces of the puzzle when they aren't.

Hairball seemed offended when I said they would view all of us as idiots for doing what we do, but much of what we work with is either a throwaway remark from a band with an unhealthy central relationship or it's carefully crafted PR that really means nothing more than they're not done yet and there will be more product to buy whether a concert ticket, an archival release, or a new studio album.

That said, I place most of my confidence in Soldatti's source. There are 15 tracks substantially finished. They may continue to play with them. Some are familiar Stones sounds and some are slightly different and more like Mick's recent sides. Whether the end product is just that or whether the band comes together to make those tracks sound less like a studio creation and more like a band working together remains to be seen. Should something get in the way of all this, Don has access to enough material that can be remixed or given fresh overdubs to pass along as a more traditional album. I would imagine those are the conversations they have with the label. I do believe the album is not in any danger of falling apart. They're at a point where anyone can finish it. Right now they have the luxury of seeing if all concerned can be happy with it first.

No offense taken Rocky, just thought you're analogy was slightly off base and probably could have been better worded.
We're all speculating here (including you and your analogy) - based on snippets of info. and what we think we know about the band....

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Next tweet from "Chuck" might be the No Filter tour announcement. ;-)

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Hairball
what we think we know about the band....

Here's one thing we know about "the band", from Ron Wood's recent interview with The Telegraph:

Does he think rock stars should ever retire? “No. Well, it depends which band they’re in, but we won’t.” Who should then? “No comment,” interjects his manager.

...that even in their seventies, they're still not exactly free to say it like it is, without some handler intervening on their behalf.

Even more than a corporation, The Stones, Inc., is like a political body. And we, the mere masses, the plebs who follow, are fed only the campaign oratory, the things we want to hear even if it isn't necessarily the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-22 20:23 by stonehearted.

Yes that was odd to read stonehearted, as if Ronnie was under oath in court and his lawyer objected to a particular question.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
MisterDDDD
Chuck re-tweeted an old post today (from July) re a RS article quoting Keith on studio time.
Thought the timing of the re-tweet was a bit odd..unless something cooking in that regard..

Chuck Leavell? @ChuckLeavell 18m18 minutes ago
More
Keith Richards: Rolling Stones Back in Studio ‘Very Shortly’ [ow.ly]


[twitter.com]

He's throwing some casual fans and the general public a bone without breaking any confidencial agreements because the "news" originally came from Keith...

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retired_dog

Quote
MisterDDDD
Chuck re-tweeted an old post today (from July) re a RS article quoting Keith on studio time.
Thought the timing of the re-tweet was a bit odd..unless something cooking in that regard..

Chuck Leavell? @ChuckLeavell 18m18 minutes ago
More
Keith Richards: Rolling Stones Back in Studio ‘Very Shortly’ [ow.ly]


[twitter.com]

He's throwing some casual fans and the general public a bone without breaking any confidencial agreements because the "news" originally came from Keith...

Exactly. And that's what happened to the article about Ronnie coming out of the studio a couple of months ago as well. It was "re-published" recently..

Quote
Hairball
Yes that was odd to read stonehearted, as if Ronnie was under oath in court and his lawyer objected to a particular question.

I think his manager might've been warning:
Don't trash other bands! (by saying who you might think should've retired by now)
It's usually a regret having a negative printed about another band.

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35love

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Hairball
Yes that was odd to read stonehearted, as if Ronnie was under oath in court and his lawyer objected to a particular question.

I think his manager might've been warning:
Don't trash other bands! (by saying who you might think should've retired by now)
It's usually a regret having a negative printed about another band.

Agree, it was just odd that he had a handler/manager step in like that. I've seen and read many interviews with Ronnie, and don't recall him ever being accompanied by his manager.
Even on his radio show while having other musicians as guests, they would shoot the breeze about whatever they wanted, and no manager was ever there by his side (as far as I know).
But maybe now because he's always very candid and known to lets things out of the bag, he's been assigned someone to accompany him during interviews. As the saying goes, "loose lips sink ships"...

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Ah, I think it's a good idea. Would be for me.
And someone to go: times up, next!