Quote
Doxa
Yeah, technically they started the project already in 2015, but seemingly along the way it looks like that they aborted the whole thing, and started from the scratch again (like Charlie once wondered 'what happened to that album', and there were along the years all those stories about Mick's 40 demos, Keith's three dynamite riffs, different mixes, artistic quarrels about the direction of the album, listening sessions, etc). Probably the success of BLUE & LONESOME 'bought' them more time (at least made their record company happy). So the new album looks like deriving from the sessions from 2019 on. They have the luxury to not release anything if they feel like they are not satisfied with the quality.

That's an interesting thought that they scrapped most of everything they did earlier and started afresh in 2019. If this is indeed the case it would be interesting to compare the earlier material with the more recent stuff. Only chance then either another rarities album or another leak.

Quote
Doxa
The biggest difference seems to have happened in Mick's attitude. He was the man once so worried about meeting the deadlines, but now he doesn't seem to give a shit...

Haven't we discussed this at some length already a few years back (georgelicks?)? Like, they don't have a deadline because they don't contractually owe an album to anybody (any company)?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-13 23:57 by doitywoik.

Doxa
The biggest difference seems to have happened in Mick's attitude. He was the man once so worried about meeting the deadlines, but now he doesn't seem to give a shit...

Absolutely! He really doesn't care anymore. The band have a viable, financially lucrative business model, and can roll up to a football stadium anywhere willing to pay them, and be adored for cranking out the same setlist ad nauseum.

Given all of that, why bother with a new album? Keep energy in reserve for the next leg of the never-ending tour. Work new people into what is left of the band. Rest on past glories. Excavate the vaults for unreleased material, both live and studio based, and issue it in various configurations, to keep the serious collectors happy. Make lots and lots of money along the way!

Yep! New album! What new album? Who needs a new album?

Quote
doitywoik

Quote
Doxa
Yeah, technically they started the project already in 2015, but seemingly along the way it looks like that they aborted the whole thing, and started from the scratch again (like Charlie once wondered 'what happened to that album', and there were along the years all those stories about Mick's 40 demos, Keith's three dynamite riffs, different mixes, artistic quarrels about the direction of the album, listening sessions, etc). Probably the success of BLUE & LONESOME 'bought' them more time (at least made their record company happy). So the new album looks like deriving from the sessions from 2019 on. They have the luxury to not release anything if they feel like they are not satisfied with the quality.

That's an interesting thought that they scrapped most of everything they did earlier and started afresh in 2019. If this is indeed the case it would be interesting to compare the earlier material with the more recent stuff. Only chance then either another rarities album or another leak.

Well, of course that was just speculation from my side based on some hints (just like anything else, haha). It could be some of those songs or ideas from, say, 2015-18, has been developed further or re-recorded, but something happened in their public sayings around 2019. The amount of worked tracks was reduced, and they were like just having started recording the album, and like nothing had happened in the previous years. Also Charlie's funny remark about 'what happened to that album?' came from that time frame. But it could be that all the 'first' years were just warming up, fooling around, trying different things with no hurry, and by 2019 they started to have something worthwhile and determinate in their hands. But still no hurry...

All of those hints and phases are documented in this thread, but it will be the task of future researchers to make sense of it... (actually it would be interesting if someone in the 'know' - like Don Was - could someday tell us what really has happened during all these 'wasted' years).

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-14 13:43 by Doxa.

2016
[www.list.co.uk]

Tyrone Wood said: "I've heard snippets of the album, yes, it's amazing. It's different - I can't say different how, cause I wouldn't want to ruin it - but it's good."

"It was just before Christmas that we started doing a new album. Then we went and did shows in South America, so we're still very much on. I can't say much but there are a lot of different things on this album" MJ

"That’s in the can – although it might be a surprise to people, and I can’t say any more than that right now" KR

It seems to me that in 2016 this new album was basically ready.
Then who knows what happened.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-14 14:07 by KRiffhard.

I often hear snippets of stuff - especially in record stores, or here on-line - that sounds fairly promising on first hearing. Then I've heard the whole thing and it's been anything but promising! So where does that leave what Tyrone Wood said six years ago???

The bottom line here is that we should take positive statements about any possible new material with the skepticism they deserve. The proof will be in the music itself. If it ever sees the light of day!

Perhaps we should hope for a new single. It's been 2 years.

They can add it to HONK, or even rearrange the colour pattern and call it SIXTY even though nothing on it spans 60 years, similar to JUMP BACK's 1971-1993.

Quote
GerardHennessy
Doxa
The biggest difference seems to have happened in Mick's attitude. He was the man once so worried about meeting the deadlines, but now he doesn't seem to give a shit...

Absolutely! He really doesn't care anymore. The band have a viable, financially lucrative business model, and can roll up to a football stadium anywhere willing to pay them, and be adored for cranking out the same setlist ad nauseum.

Given all of that, why bother with a new album? Keep energy in reserve for the next leg of the never-ending tour. Work new people into what is left of the band. Rest on past glories. Excavate the vaults for unreleased material, both live and studio based, and issue it in various configurations, to keep the serious collectors happy. Make lots and lots of money along the way!

Yep! New album! What new album? Who needs a new album?

Yeah, like doitywoik pointed out above, there probably is not any pressure from their record company (although, as it was discussed at the time, Universal gave them initially some 'extra' money for the project, but seemingly that contract was fulfilled by BLUE & LONESOME). So there is no any actual 'deadline' Mick should be worry about. But there is not any other 'outer' pressure either, since succesfull touring nowadays doesn't require a new album - or new music - to go with. When that was a demand, Mick made pretty sure that the band met the deadlines, even by the cost of the quality of the album.

For example, the whole band was impressed how quickly STEEL WHEELS was done, since the tour set the deadline. There was not endless jamming and finding the right groove any longer, that is to say. Seemingly on VOODOO LOUNGE they put more time and energy (although Mick seemingly lost the interest in some point), but in the end it was a 'tour promotion album'. Both BRIDGES TO BABYLON and A BIGGER BANG were pretty rushed projects constructed a tour in mind - the former initially based on aborted solo projects by Mick and Keith, the latter being more like a joint Glimmer Twins solo project, Charlie and Ronnie adding their parts later in the process (they didn't have then time to wait Charlie to recover or Ronnie to get his shit together).

If we go more back in history, one can think how TATTOO YOU was constructed: just to get something quickly out to maximise the income based on the promotional power of a tour. The following two albums were like contract fillers (at least for Mick). In the case of UNDERCOVER, that was something Atlantic even complained about. The lack of Jagger's interest or heart in DIRTY WORK is also at least a part of Stones folklore, and there might be some truth in it. But he get that one done.

I guess we might think that there is some 'outer' pressure from fans, or like imagewise they should release a new album for being 'artists' or a 'living and breathing band', but I am afraid that is more like romantic talk based on the past than something actually bothering Mick (and the rest). Their status and legacy is sealed ages ago.

When we add the cruel fact that financially there is not much to be gained by releasing new music, I think the fate of a new album is up to 'inner' pressure or motivation. A pure artistic drive, one might say. In the case of Mick (or probably by anyone creating stuff according to a muse and not caring about anything else), forget the deadlines then (although during the last years Mick seems to be motivated to release stuff when he feels like having something urgent to say. And then he does it quickly). Like I tried to say, him and the Stones have nowadays the (justified and acquired) luxury to do what the hell they feel like doing or not...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-14 17:04 by Doxa.

But let me still add my own opinion that I think Mick (and Keith too) are best when there is an outer pressure. They probably never been that 'purely' artistic-minded guys, but more like guys who love the challenge and are able to arise to the occasion and do their best when there is a real reason to do something (lazybones otherwise). Just to think of it: they even started making own songs from an outer pressure, not something stemming out of their inner soul naturally, like their inner muse forcing them to create something (like Keith has said, that even not had occurred to him before Andrew started demanding that - pointing out that if they want to have a career in the business, one cannot do covers for good. Besides the big money is on song-writing...). Are there any other major song-writers born under similar circumstances? This is not criticism - I think that is awesome, and just tells how incredible and unique talents those two are!

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-14 17:38 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
But let me still add my own opinion that I think Mick (and Keith too) are best when there is an outer pressure. They probably never been that 'purely' artistic-minded guys, but more like guys who love the challenge and are able to arise to the occasion and do their best when there is a real reason to do something (lazybones otherwise). Just to think of it: they even started making own songs from an outer pressure, not something stemming out of their inner soul naturally, like their inner muse forcing them to create something (like Keith has said, that even not had occurred to him before Andrew started demanding that - pointing out that if they want to have a career in the business, one cannot do covers for good. Besides the big money is on song-writing...). Are there any other major song-writers born under similar circumstances? This is not criticism - I think that is awesome, and just tells how incredible and unique talents those two are!

- Doxa

It could be argued that their survival counted on new material and inventive album/single artwork, ie artistic drive, arguably starting with BEGGARS and basically ending after UNDERCOVER. I say U because of the amount of work they put into videos and remixes, which happened after they'd signed to CBS Records with the album completed. After that... there was only the pressure of CBS to release something, and they only got one decent release out of them in regard to the 3 they did get.

Mick is the one that said back whenever, 6 years ago, that it's about time the Stones release a new album. Apparently internal pressure is non-existent.

Think of all the time spent (some would say wasted) adding new parts and tinkering with all the bonus tracks on the various deluxe releases.
While a few have been somewhat interesting, most were actually better pre-ovedub, and in the end none of those extra tracks have added anything to the legacy.
Similar to the Beatles' Free as a Bird and Real Love experiments...adding new parts to Lennon demos many years after the fact...interesting in a freak show way, but in the end forgettable.
It's one thing to work on some unfinished tunes that have been around for maybe 10 years or so, but when you start adding overdubs to leftover junk from 40 years ago it seems they're grasping at straws.
And then there's the time spent (wasted) on various solo tunes in recent years. Aside from a few diehards (very few), nobody cares about any of those releases, and ultimately they've all been forgotten.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

New acts need new music, to evolve and score new hits. To build a career. Old acts don't need new albums. They already made it. The big money is in touring for them. Their future is behind them.
It's like sowing and reaping. The Stones sowing period ended in the late 70s. Since then it has been all about reaping.

Quote
Hairball
Think of all the time spent (some would say wasted) adding new parts and tinkering with all the bonus tracks on the various deluxe releases.
While a few have been somewhat interesting, most were actually better pre-ovedub, and in the end none of those extra tracks have added anything to the legacy.
Similar to the Beatles' Free as a Bird and Real Love experiments...adding new parts to Lennon demos many years after the fact...interesting in a freak show way, but in the end forgettable.
It's one thing to work on some unfinished tunes that have been around for maybe 10 years or so, but when you start adding overdubs to leftover junk from 40 years ago it seems they're grasping at straws.
And then there's the time spent (wasted) on various solo tunes in recent years. Aside from a few diehards (very few), nobody cares about any of those releases, and ultimately they've all been forgotten.

Well said my friend. Very well said indeed. And sad, but true, most of the few odds and ends that HAVE appeared have been forgotten.

Now it sounds like they want to record with Steve Jordan. Let's face it, they've run out of originality. Keith can't cut it with new riffs, and hasn't in a long time. It's okay. Forget the new album. More vaults, please.

Quote
Stoneage
New acts need new music, to evolve and score new hits. To build a career. Old acts don't need new albums. They already made it. The big money is in touring for them. Their future is behind them.
It's like sowing and reaping. The Stones sowing period ended in the late 70s. Since then it has been all about reaping.

Yeah, I guess that's something pretty normal in Darwinian terms what popular music is all about. Look, for example, Frank Sinatra or Muddy Waters: they surely performed more or less to the end, and both acts remained popular, no matter how little new music or contributions they had to the musical world after their prime or heyday when they ruled the world in their own genres. I don't think many fans of theirs were even expecting that they should somehow reinvent themselves or make new hits or something in the latter part of their career. You know, if Muddy was in town, say, in 1980, I don't think many went not to see him because he hadn't done anything substantially original to offer since his hey-day from the late forties to early 60's ('no, I don' t want to hear the same old 'Mannish Boy' or 'Hoochie Coochie Man' again'). They went to see him, because he was that Muddy Waters, a living legend, a man who once changed the world with his music and who, most likely, will still give a helluva show.

In the field of rock and roll, The Stones are doing the same. But due to their longetivity and extreme popularity, they are pioneers there. There is not any rock act they follow, they create the route of their own. They are the first to show an example (nowadays they've being 'too old' for what they do has thankfully being forgotten). The others follow them. But as it always with pioneering, especially in a pop genre full of funnily pretentious talk of 'art', be ready for mocking by critics and even by fans who still think in terms and criteria of their long-gone youth... ('where is my this year's new Stones album? Why I don't hear the latest Stones single on the radio?')

- Doxa



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-14 21:31 by Doxa.

Keith tells Marc Maron the recent week in Jamaica with Mick and Steve Jordan was "pretty prolific".

[www.wtfpod.com]

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
Doxa
But let me still add my own opinion that I think Mick (and Keith too) are best when there is an outer pressure. They probably never been that 'purely' artistic-minded guys, but more like guys who love the challenge and are able to arise to the occasion and do their best when there is a real reason to do something (lazybones otherwise). Just to think of it: they even started making own songs from an outer pressure, not something stemming out of their inner soul naturally, like their inner muse forcing them to create something (like Keith has said, that even not had occurred to him before Andrew started demanding that - pointing out that if they want to have a career in the business, one cannot do covers for good. Besides the big money is on song-writing...). Are there any other major song-writers born under similar circumstances? This is not criticism - I think that is awesome, and just tells how incredible and unique talents those two are!

- Doxa

It could be argued that their survival counted on new material and inventive album/single artwork, ie artistic drive, arguably starting with BEGGARS and basically ending after UNDERCOVER. I say U because of the amount of work they put into videos and remixes, which happened after they'd signed to CBS Records with the album completed. After that... there was only the pressure of CBS to release something, and they only got one decent release out of them in regard to the 3 they did get.

Mick is the one that said back whenever, 6 years ago, that it's about time the Stones release a new album. Apparently internal pressure is non-existent.

Yeah, there was a time when survival (to remain something top-like in the business) indeed asked constant creativity, and that's what the Stones delivered. You describe the 'albums era' there, but even before that I guess the 'singles era' might have been even artistically more demanding: you needed to come up with a new hit single every four months or so, and if you failed (with the Stones and the Beatles it was meaning not hitting number one on charts), that was a disaster. A tough game: the band was as good as its latest single. The whole career was based on those radio hits. It was a 'killing floor', as Keith once described it.

But the point: The Stones did it, and Mick and Keith were able to come up with songs that were huge hits at the time, and some still remain one of the most best remembered songs from the era (still today, "Satisfaction" is the most streamed song from 1965 by anyone, as is "Paint It Black" from 1966.)

And then, when the rock grew up out from 'mere' pop music and started to be more artistically self-conscious, and the heart of the business were well-selling albums as 'artistic statements', the Stones came up with a series of masterpiece albums (1968-1972) that cemented their artistic credibility forever. Anything from then on was build on that foundation. Yeah, as long as the heart of music business was selling albums the Stones did that, and would still deliver pretty good (and always well-selling) albums for decades. Any new Stones album was always a big deal, a big news. Always a nice pay-day for the band (and they always got the best record deals in the world - that also required them making those albums). And for years it was like a requirement that one needed to release well-selling albums to be someone in the business, to be 'relevant'. You know, a top act in the business.

But that was a long ago. Nowadays they don't need to release anything - making radio hits, come up with hit albums - to be still on the top, or even the biggest act in the world (something that has to do with their own status and doings, something with the sad condition of the record-selling business in general) . No, 'all' they need to do is to deliver the best rock and roll show in the world, and that's it. It is the tours they seemingly put all their ambition and energy on. One might say that is an easy route. Okay, go ahead and do that: after 50 years since your heyday and days of relevance, fill up the stadiums and make people to pay incredible sums of money to see you. And even having a great time, and walking happily home. As I was talking earlier about the challenge motivating them, I think for the dudes of their age, delivering those shows convincingly and with a success, must be one (one can only imagine how much Jagger needs to work out in order to deliver a Jagger show, and I wouldn't underestimate Keith's contribution either) Back in the 90's and still to some extent in the 00's (20-30 years ago), when still the idea of making new music was a requirement for being 'relevant' they would have been called a 'nostalgia act'. But the Stones have outlived that. If an act that ruled the world - jeez christ - about a half a century ago, can be anything else than pure nostalgia, or their appeal can be based on anything else than that, that is a joke (some realism, folks!). Do they release new music or not.

- Doxa



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-14 23:42 by Doxa.

Quote
Stoneage
New acts need new music, to evolve and score new hits. To build a career. Old acts don't need new albums. They already made it. The big money is in touring for them. Their future is behind them.
It's like sowing and reaping. The Stones sowing period ended in the late 70s. Since then it has been all about reaping.

They've mastered the art of nostalgia, similar to a trip to Disneyland. They're relics from the past who have basically become a tribute/reenactment to something they once were. While the quality of their skills and performances continues to dwindle, they can somehow still bring in the money - nostalgia itself is a big draw. And with only Keith and Mick left as original members, it's amazing they're still rolling on.
Unfortunately, their productivity and creative output as far as new studio material is concerned has become stagnant, and seems the old Stones are indeed gathering moss.
Will they shake off the cobwebs and surprise everyone with a new album of new material some day? Being it's the 60th anniversary, one can only hope it will be this year.
They've been talking about working on it for years now, so lets hope their actions actually become louder than their words - there's still some small hope.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Lol.

Quote
bye bye johnny
Keith tells Marc Maron the recent week in Jamaica with Mick and Steve Jordan was "pretty prolific".

[www.wtfpod.com]

Thx for sharing. Just heard that part by the minute 33:18

Quote
DiegoGlimmerStones

Quote
bye bye johnny
Keith tells Marc Maron the recent week in Jamaica with Mick and Steve Jordan was "pretty prolific".

[www.wtfpod.com]

Thx for sharing. Just heard that part by the minute 33:18

It was not too long ago that Keith was saying "being prolific don't mean shit" in regards to Mick's 40 demos....
And wondering if "those three dynamite riffs" of his he talked about back then are still relevant to the supposed new album plan, and has he added anything new since then?
Having been focused on the Winos and Main Offender rerelease recently, and the fact he said in this interview he was playing mostly bass in Jamaica, not sure what to think of it all.
The interviewer did say the record might come out after the tour, and Keith himself said somewhere else they might think about it after the tour...so...still a long ways to go....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-15 00:08 by Hairball.

Well Keef played a shit load of bass on
Crosseyed Heart and you told us over and
over how much you loved that album so you should be excited ...



ROCKMAN

Quote
Hairball

Quote
DiegoGlimmerStones

Quote
bye bye johnny
Keith tells Marc Maron the recent week in Jamaica with Mick and Steve Jordan was "pretty prolific".

[www.wtfpod.com]

Thx for sharing. Just heard that part by the minute 33:18

It was not too long ago that Keith was saying "being prolific don't mean shit" in regards to Mick's 40 demos....
And wondering if "those three dynamite riffs" of his he talked about back then are still relevant to the supposed new album plan, and has he added anything new since then?
Having been focused on the Winos and Main Offender rerelease recently, and the fact he said in this interview he was playing mostly bass in Jamaica, not sure what to think of it all.
The interviewer did say the record might come out after the tour, and Keith himself said somewhere else they might think about it after the tour...so...still a long ways to go....

It's pretty obvious that Keith just says whatever he feels that suits him at every given moment, so just don't lose your sleep about his quotes from the past that seemingly have a very short half-life only.

Could they have been adding bass and drums (steve) to Mick n Matts demos?

Seems the album is going to be written by the four of them?.....and the left overs could be two solo albums

Quote
DiegoGlimmerStones

Quote
bye bye johnny
Keith tells Marc Maron the recent week in Jamaica with Mick and Steve Jordan was "pretty prolific".

[www.wtfpod.com]

Thx for sharing. Just heard that part by the minute 33:18

Thanks for the link and time code. Another useless Keith interview, apart from plugging MO Deluxe where they didn't even manage to put unreleased material...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Keith's comment to Mojo about the new album...same old, same old !



--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

So it's in early stages

Quote
gotdablouse

Keith's comment to Mojo about the new album...same old, same old !

The whole page 23 with Keith in Mojo 5-2022:

[www.PressReader.com]

The Mojo interview above seems to have been done before the new year, some weeks before the Jamaican sessions. A bit old news now (but it doesn't matter substantially)... What he has said more recently seems to point out that the writing sessions were fruitful (and he played a lot of bass). So there are more cuts (or raw material) waiting for someone to finish them some day... Although, whatever the latter means: picking up the right cuts and then 'just' overdubbing and mixing. Or seeing the cuts only as demos and then starting to record them with the whole band or what...

But hey! You gentlemen keep up the good work and take your time. We just keep on waiting....

- Doxa

Quote
gotdablouse

Keith's comment to Mojo about the new album...same old, same old !

As in the interview with Keith in the German Spiegel (12-Mar-2022) - [iorr.org] .

I guess seeing how little time (actual working days) they seem to put into making the album (one week after, what, two years?) and how much time Keith has put into promoting a 30 year old reissue (a couple of months already) tells probably something about their (his) priorities at the moment. Recall the old days when they were making an album called DIRTY WORK in Paris and they (I guess especially Keith) got upset because Mick was promoting at the same his brandnew solo album. I guess the old - younger, actually - Keith would have spent all these months in that Jamaican studio working like a madman... But nothing wrong with that. It is what it is.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-15 14:49 by Doxa.