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HMS

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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.

I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.
That is logical.
101 %.

Ahhhh, the same kind of logical that is sticking a knife into a toaster while it's toasting bread.

And then you use a number that is mathematically impossible regarding something being full.

Excellent.

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HMS

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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.

I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.

We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."

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TornAndFried
We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."

...from different periods... from different periods.
That alone is proof enough that TY is a compilation

Btw. Mr Spock would fully agree

It is all so very very evident, so crystal clear to see and easy to understand, so absolutely logical how can one still refuse to acknowledge the truth is totally beyond me. Human logic says TY is a compilation, vulcan logic would say the same, even klingon logic would.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-13 18:46 by HMS.

Let me play Dr. McCoy: Blast logic Spock, you can't have it both ways. It's either a new album or a compilation of unreleased material.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-13 18:59 by nick.

Mr. Scott is confused about Think I'm Going Mad and So Young 1994. Are those "Compilation" B-Sides?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-13 19:05 by nick.

At least they added something new on So Young for that 1994-version, but I don't know...

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TornAndFried

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IanBillen
TY was not a compilation album (compilation albums are songs that were already released or completed or were b sides to singles etc..). TY was an album comprised of unreleased material over the years that was not completed that was worked up and crafted with a few newer (more recent) tunes thrown into the batch as well. It is / was a new studio album .. but it wasn't nor is it ever seen as a compilation.


Now... on with the convo about the upcoming album .. whenever it will FINALLY come Lol.

Since the lads have an extra day in New Orleans due to the postponed show they should be taking advantage of their time off and proximity to each other and spend an afternoon writing together in their hotel suite. Or watching cricket.

Good point but I wonder if something would even cross their minds these days...or since 1981 actually? At best it's been "we'll try to do something after the tour" like in 2002 when they were concerned people would see them as an oldies band touring behind a compilation. That nearly feels like a lifetime ago now!

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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beachbreak
The boys will put out a great album of originals.

Better than ABB.

Some golden nuggets on Cross Eyed Heart, more to come, Mick too.

They own the formula, just ponder the size of their catalog!

Actually, after pondering their studio catalogue, I find the size to be quite paltry. For a band of 57 years...well....

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gotdablouse

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TornAndFried

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IanBillen
TY was not a compilation album (compilation albums are songs that were already released or completed or were b sides to singles etc..). TY was an album comprised of unreleased material over the years that was not completed that was worked up and crafted with a few newer (more recent) tunes thrown into the batch as well. It is / was a new studio album .. but it wasn't nor is it ever seen as a compilation.


Now... on with the convo about the upcoming album .. whenever it will FINALLY come Lol.

Since the lads have an extra day in New Orleans due to the postponed show they should be taking advantage of their time off and proximity to each other and spend an afternoon writing together in their hotel suite. Or watching cricket.

Good point but I wonder if something would even cross their minds these days...or since 1981 actually? At best it's been "we'll try to do something after the tour" like in 2002 when they were concerned people would see them as an oldies band touring behind a compilation. That nearly feels like a lifetime ago now!

It was mostly wishful thinking that Mick and Keith would even consider taking advantage of their proximity together on the road (which is a rare thing these days) to have a writing session or even do some impromptu recording in the hotel suite. When they are on tour these days they probably spend their free time relaxing and going to see old friends or visit a favorite restaurant or maybe do a bit of sightseeing. Mick seems to have a little more creative incentive then Keith and probably travels with a portable recording setup in case he gets an idea and wants to make a demo. I think the fact they don't seem to have a lot of creativity flowing these days makes writing and recording seem more like a chore then in the past so they probably procrastinate it as much as possible.

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TornAndFried

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HMS

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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.

I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.

We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."

Spock would call STICKY FINGERS a compilation if that was his illogic because it has songs on it going back to 1968; EXILE ON MAIN STREET going back to 1969; GOATS HEAD SOUP going back to 1970...

But he's not one of those. Those were all "regular studio albums", whatever that means, just like IORR, BAB, SM, ER, TY, U, DW and onward are.

There's no need to agree that TATTOO YOU is their oddest studio album regarding when and where tracks were recorded - that's a fact. We, with one exception, know it's a "regular studio album" regardless because it was recorded in a number of recording studios like a majority of their albums.

It's no different than 'Ben had a gleam in his eye about having a son in 1973' but didn't have a son until 1982. 'It's not a real son', said the idiot jerk neighbor.

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TornAndFried

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HMS

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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.

I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.

We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."

_______________________________________________


I agree .. Tattoo You was not their standard way of doing a new studio album. I def agree with that and that is a given. It wasnt a regular studio album at all behind the scenes .. however it was a new studio album and it was not a 'compilation'..... it was a brand new studio album.

Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. I always thought they recorded the entire thing after the Emotional Rescue sessions and then toured with it. I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.

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IanBillen

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TornAndFried

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HMS

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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.

I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.

We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."

_______________________________________________


I agree .. Tattoo You was not their standard way of doing a new studio album. I def agree with that and that is a given. It wasnt a regular studio album at all behind the scenes .. however it was a new studio album and it was not a 'compilation'..... it was a brand new studio album.

Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. I always thought they recorded the entire thing after the Emotional Rescue sessions and then toured with it. I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.

Some magazine, I forget what it's called at the moment, talked about the BLACK AND BLUE sessions, and how it aided to the development of TATTOO YOU.

I had no idea at the time... but I also had no idea at the time about how they did anything. Nothing on any album says anything specific. And apparently when the liner notes are done they don't always know who did what as it is.

Take in the history of how TY was made from the GHS to ER sessions, and then there is:
LIB
SF
EOMS
GHS
IORR
ER
TY
U

Leftovers upon leftovers used on every album in totality. Too Tough wasn't the original track from the BAB sessions (Cellophane Trousers) but it came from there. It wasn't original to the U sessions in terms of being written for songs for U. Somehow it stuck with Keith and then it happened.

They went through previous sessions tracks often, from how it's understood (playback is how it's often worded), to see what could be possibly included on the next forth LP.

That wasn't the case with TY.

To consider what Chris Kimsey went through for 3 months and narrowed it down to 14 songs or however many it was for Mick to sing on and then do the other work with whoever, sax etc... it's pretty much a genius effort, all things considered. Imagine if they'd worked on 16-22 songs...

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IanBillen
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. (...) I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.

I've said it already but here it comes again: this is not entirely accurate. In the interviews (mind you, in the press, in mags, not on youtube) surrounding its release back in 1981 Keith and also Mick were quite outspoken that some tracks/songs on TY were up to seven/eight (or whatever) years old and came from sessions for several previous albums. Keith called it repeatedly a normal procedure of the Stones to let songs ripen until they are ready. Maybe we know more fine-grained detail today than we did in 1981 but the basic architecture underlying TY has always been clear. I seem to remember that only two songs were claimed to have been freshly recorded: Neighbours and another one.

The mags etc. I am referring to is what was published in German at that time - in many cases perhaps just uncredited translations of interviews in English/American media. I find it hard to believe that those basic facts about TY were unknown in the English-speaking world and had only been revealed to a few chosen mainland Europeans.

Cellophane Trousers starts with a lick from Love Is Strong then the Too Tough licks.

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doitywoik

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IanBillen
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. (...) I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.

I've said it already but here it comes again: this is not entirely accurate. In the interviews (mind you, in the press, in mags, not on youtube) surrounding its release back in 1981 Keith and also Mick were quite outspoken that some tracks/songs on TY were up to seven/eight (or whatever) years old and came from sessions for several previous albums. Keith called it repeatedly a normal procedure of the Stones to let songs ripen until they are ready. Maybe we know more fine-grained detail today than we did in 1981 but the basic architecture underlying TY has always been clear. I seem to remember that only two songs were claimed to have been freshly recorded: Neighbours and another one.

The mags etc. I am referring to is what was published in German at that time - in many cases perhaps just uncredited translations of interviews in English/American media. I find it hard to believe that those basic facts about TY were unknown in the English-speaking world and had only been revealed to a few chosen mainland Europeans.

Have not been able to find any literature anywhere alluding to them recording two new songs for TATTOO YOU, just that everything was done up through the EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions.

Perhaps it was their way of throwing a bit of shade to the nostalgia haters back then... just like they claimed they were still a "working" band with the 4 new songs on FORTY LICKS, a huge overstatement.

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doitywoik

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IanBillen
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. (...) I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.

I've said it already but here it comes again: this is not entirely accurate. In the interviews (mind you, in the press, in mags, not on youtube) surrounding its release back in 1981 Keith and also Mick were quite outspoken that some tracks/songs on TY were up to seven/eight (or whatever) years old and came from sessions for several previous albums. Keith called it repeatedly a normal procedure of the Stones to let songs ripen until they are ready. Maybe we know more fine-grained detail today than we did in 1981 but the basic architecture underlying TY has always been clear. I seem to remember that only two songs were claimed to have been freshly recorded: Neighbours and another one.

The mags etc. I am referring to is what was published in German at that time - in many cases perhaps just uncredited translations of interviews in English/American media. I find it hard to believe that those basic facts about TY were unknown in the English-speaking world and had only been revealed to a few chosen mainland Europeans.

I seem to recall being aware of it shortly after it's release, but it never changed the fact that it was a brand new Stones album filled with great original tunes with a massive tour to promote it.
Those were the good old days, and am thankful I was able to experience it all as an 18 yr. old listening to Tattoo You repeatedly leading up to my first two Stones shows at the L.A. Coliseum...good times.
Things might have turned out differently if I was 18 when the mediocre at best Dirty Work was released with no tour...I might have never become a Stones addict.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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GasLightStreet
It's no different than 'Ben had a gleam in his eye about having a son in 1973' but didn't have a son until 1982. 'It's not a real son', said the idiot jerk neighbor.

One of the funniest lines here since the golden years of StonesTod.

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GasLightStreet

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doitywoik

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IanBillen
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. (...) I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.

I've said it already but here it comes again: this is not entirely accurate. In the interviews (mind you, in the press, in mags, not on youtube) surrounding its release back in 1981 Keith and also Mick were quite outspoken that some tracks/songs on TY were up to seven/eight (or whatever) years old and came from sessions for several previous albums. Keith called it repeatedly a normal procedure of the Stones to let songs ripen until they are ready. Maybe we know more fine-grained detail today than we did in 1981 but the basic architecture underlying TY has always been clear. I seem to remember that only two songs were claimed to have been freshly recorded: Neighbours and another one.

The mags etc. I am referring to is what was published in German at that time - in many cases perhaps just uncredited translations of interviews in English/American media. I find it hard to believe that those basic facts about TY were unknown in the English-speaking world and had only been revealed to a few chosen mainland Europeans.

Have not been able to find any literature anywhere alluding to them recording two new songs for TATTOO YOU, just that everything was done up through the EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions.

Perhaps it was their way of throwing a bit of shade to the nostalgia haters back then... just like they claimed they were still a "working" band with the 4 new songs on FORTY LICKS, a huge overstatement.

1979 was pretty "freshly recorded" in this context

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GasLightStreet
Have not been able to find any literature anywhere alluding to them recording two new songs for TATTOO YOU, just that everything was done up through the EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions.

Certainly not going to dispute that. Maybe the journalists back then got it wrong or something was lost in translation, maybe it's just me remembering the two songs statement wrongly. Maybe there were two songs that needed more overdubs than others, and that's what was being referred to. I'm sure we have people here who know of each and every single lick when it was submitted to tape. I did search a bit but couldn't find the respective posts.

But no matter what, as also @Hairball has pointed out, nobody considered TY a compilation album when it came out. Back then, just as now for seemingly everyone here save one, an album was considered (and called) a compilation album when it contained stuff that had already previously been released, be it on an album or a single, kind of "Greatest Hits", "XYZ For Lovers", or what have you. And perhaps with an outtake thrown in to make it attractive also to collectors.

Also, falling back on stuff from earlier sessions wasn't that uncommon back then. You couldn't put more than 40-45 min on an LP, so unless you were short on ideas anyway it was quite likely that the sessions for an album produced more songs than you could use. Likewise, it wasn't uncommon that not every song appeared on an album at the time it was written. For example, noone would (have) consider(ed), say, the Floyd's ANIMALS a compilation album just because not all songs came from the same string of sessions. You've Got To Be Crazy and Raving And Drooling, which later on became Dogs and Sheep, resp., on ANIMALS, were even performed live as early as 1974.

I really don't see the point in bashing TY just because the songs weren't written and recorded exclusively in 1981 and only two days short of its release. It's a good album containing fresh original material and certainly no "Greatest Outtakes And Alternative Versions" or "Stones By Numbers".

Regarding nobody knew about this:
What about the bootlegs at the time? There must have been Some Girls 77-78 sessions by then or at least Black and Blue sessions. The David Dalton book The Rolling Stones The First 20 Years. The first edition came out 10/81 and the Sessionography section lists some of the tracks on TY. The 1981 entry on Pg 191 has printed "some of these tracks were recorded during sessions for Black and Blue,Some Girls and Emotional Rescue, but were re-recorded and re-mixed between January and June 1981." - Tom Beach and James Karnbach

If it's going to be considered a compilation, it's a compilation of unreleased tracks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-14 18:20 by nick.

This silliness around studio album vs. compilation is a question of semantics vs. the impression it imparts. Calling TATTOO YOU a compilation suggests it was another METAMORPHOSIS in which songs cut between 1964 and 1971 that were deemed not good enough at the time were brought together as a new collection. One listen to METAMORPHOSIS convinced most listeners there was a reason most of this material was left by the wayside.

TATTOO YOU, by contrast was material that was in the running for several albums. "Start Me Up" was short-listed for SOME GIRLS (see Ronnie's inner sleeve of GIMME SOME NECK) and EMOTIONAL RESCUE. It was going to come out regardless. They kept playing with it, cutting new arrangements, going back to the original and not only remixing, but adding new lyrics, recutting vocals, adding percussion. It was a work-in-progress since SOME GIRLS that was finished in 1981.

That's one song, of course. What about the rest?

"Hang Fire" was likewise a holdover from SOME GIRLS also short-listed for EMOTIONAL RESCUE that was given a new lease on life with the addition of a new melody line that transformed the song from its punk origins into something unique for 1981. Mick's new doo doo doo backing vocals now build their way through the song. The work-in-progress since SOME GIRLS was likewise finished in 1981.

"Slave" was a great jam session from BLACK AND BLUE that they returned to during the EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions. This is hardly strange. During the BLACK AND BLUE sessions they returned to unfinished numbers from GOATS HEAD SOUP. Sometimes unfinished songs make the album and sometimes they linger. More overdubs followed for "Slave" and by 1981 Mick was sinally writing lyrics with "Ride a Wave" vying with "Slave." Sonny Rollins' saxophone was also a new melodic addition in 1981 that changed the arrangement. Truly an unfinished track until 1981 given that it had no lyrics and a good chunk of the music did not exist before that time.

"Little T & A" was a riff that Keith had played with for several years. It started to come together in the rough form we know in the late seventies. For a long time it was just a backing track. Final lyrics and vocals did not exist until after EMOTIONAL RESCUE. Another work in progress finished in 1981.

"Black Limousine" was a riff that Ronnie had on the backburner for several years. The song itself was ready in 1978 (again, see GIMME SOME NECK's inner sleeve). This was given a new guitar overdub from Keith during EMOTIONAL RESCUE which changed the song's arrangement. Remixing and editing in 1981 were the final touches on a song that was always a contender for SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.

"Neighbors" came together during EMOTIONAL RESCUE. They cut another version in the Fall of 1980 with Bobby Keyes. This is close to the finished version but Sonny Rollins re-did the sax parts in 1981. Again, the song was a contender that was going to be released.

As soon as EMOTIONAL RESCUE came out, Rolling Stone and Beggar Banquet noted their "next Emotional Rescue" was expected to follow within a few months. Not a compilation, they simply had more than a single album's worth of material in the running as was also the case with SOME GIRLS when they were stockpiling material in case Keith went to prison. They did not want to lose all of these songs and they continued to tinker with them and build the the tracks up all the way up to the start of summer 1981.

Not a compilation. The entire album was a work in progress of material they had been intending to release. "Worried About You" was planned for BLACK AND BLUE and was then considered for a live debut on LOVE YOU LIVE and then again for EMOTIONAL RESCUE. "Tops" and "Waiting on a Friend" were likewise revived for EMOTIONAL RESCUE. Neither had finished lyrics or in some cases any lyrics at all. "Waiting on a Friend" was built up considerably in 1981. These could not be considered finished tracks before then. "Heaven" and "No Use in Crying" were boht started during EMOTIONAL RESCUE" and they continued to putter with them, adding overdubs and remixing until they felt they were right.

Seen from that perspective, it is little different from the album they've been puttering around with since December 2015 in fits and starts. There are versions of some of these songs going back to 2011 to Mick's demo sessions with Charlie and Matt Clifford at Le Fork. Mick and Keith have worked on tracks together and apart. The band has worked as a unit on the album through several sessions over the past few years. Sometimes Ronnie does overdubs on his own. They've delved back into older sessions for songs left by the wayside as far back as STEEL WHEELS that are worth giving a listen to, overdubbing, recutting, to see if they are worthwhile.

There is, by all accounts, a lot of material none of which they consider to be finished yet. Some of the songs will likely be set aside for other later releases. Possibly a solo album or two or possibly still another Stones release. There is no clock ticking except for mortality and if that sad day arrives for the band before the album, the moment has been prepared for. That is why they've been stockpiling tracks and countless versions and mixes.

Remember Dave Stewart's remark a few years back that Mick could release several albums worth of unheard material on a cloud. Dave recommended Mick calling it GET OFF ON MY CLOUD. They have lots of material. They work on it together as well as with the likes of Dave Stewart, Matt Clifford, and Steve Jordan. They bring in outside producers to consult and help shape it. Lately, the focus has been to put more of a Jagger-Richards stamp on the material, shaping and molding to make it work for both of them, for all of them, for Don Was who is anything but the yes-man he's derided as, and for the label.

The new album will come and like TATTOO YOU it will be a work-in-progress of several years, not a compilation of odds and sods like METAMORPHOSIS.

Anyone who can't understand this likely chooses to be obtuse.

What difference does it make if an artist started working on an song or songs and then returned to it years later? It would still be an original work by said artist. There are countless examples of this in the art world that does not lessen the completed works.

In the rock world Van Halen’s last album with David Lee Roth was arguably their best in decades and the majority of those songs were reworked from the 70’s + 80’s...If the Stones took this approach on the new record (that’s a big if) it wouldn’t bother me in the least. It’s still new Stones material in my mind.

At this point in time I believe it does make some difference. The 2002 outtakes leaked about a year ago could be reworked and labeled as "new stuff" and it would feel legitimate. But they could not pull that off with recordings like Plundered My Soul where it's clear that it comes from a different era.

I'm conflicted in that I believe TY was a new album regardless of what Mick thought. I also think that Think I'm Going Mad, So Young 94, a portion of Exile deluxe bonus and the Some Girls deluxe bonus* as new.(*since So Young was released in 94 as new, those 2 other versions I exclude). I don't get the same feel with Metamorphosis in the same way because that was simply released to satisfy contractual obligations.

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nick
If it's going to be considered a compilation, it's a compilation of unreleased tracks.

All (original or new) albums are collections ie compilations of unreleased tracks!!! That's the essence of an album - a compiling of things to make up a body.

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Rocky Dijon
"Black Limousine" was a riff that Ronnie had on the backburner for several years. The song itself was ready in 1978 (again, see GIMME SOME NECK's inner sleeve). This was given a new guitar overdub from Keith during EMOTIONAL RESCUE which changed the song's arrangement. Remixing and editing in 1981 were the final touches on a song that was always a contender for SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.

"Neighbors" came together during EMOTIONAL RESCUE. They cut another version in the Fall of 1980 with Bobby Keyes. This is close to the finished version but Sonny Rollins re-did the sax parts in 1981. Again, the song was a contender that was going to be released.

[www.nzentgraf.de] references the fall of 1980 sessions is strictly overdubs, editing, mixing, no recording with the band on any new tracks ie Neighbours. Sonny Rollins added sax to everything in the spring of 1981 in NYC. That is also referenced on timeisonourside.com. What is loosely referenced, that I can find anyway, is that Bobby Keys added sax to it originally for the 1979 ER sessions that include Bobby but lists nothing in particular, even though the first take of Neighbours was done then.

Which makes sense since Bobby is on EMOTIONAL RESCUE's Let Me Go, Dance, the title track, She's So Cold and All About You (as well as If I Was A Dancer).

Black Limo apparently got started for the IORR sessions in 1973 with... Ronnie Wood but, clearly, is not the bottoms used, as noted, for TATTOO YOU.

Great writing though, as usual!

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Rocky Dijon
This silliness around studio album vs. compilation is a question of semantics vs. the impression it imparts. Calling TATTOO YOU a compilation suggests it was another METAMORPHOSIS in which songs cut between 1964 and 1971 that were deemed not good enough at the time were brought together as a new collection. One listen to METAMORPHOSIS convinced most listeners there was a reason most of this material was left by the wayside.

TATTOO YOU, by contrast was material that was in the running for several albums. "Start Me Up" was short-listed for SOME GIRLS (see Ronnie's inner sleeve of GIMME SOME NECK) and EMOTIONAL RESCUE. It was going to come out regardless. They kept playing with it, cutting new arrangements, going back to the original and not only remixing, but adding new lyrics, recutting vocals, adding percussion. It was a work-in-progress since SOME GIRLS that was finished in 1981.

That's one song, of course. What about the rest?

"Hang Fire" was likewise a holdover from SOME GIRLS also short-listed for EMOTIONAL RESCUE that was given a new lease on life with the addition of a new melody line that transformed the song from its punk origins into something unique for 1981. Mick's new doo doo doo backing vocals now build their way through the song. The work-in-progress since SOME GIRLS was likewise finished in 1981.

"Slave" was a great jam session from BLACK AND BLUE that they returned to during the EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions. This is hardly strange. During the BLACK AND BLUE sessions they returned to unfinished numbers from GOATS HEAD SOUP. Sometimes unfinished songs make the album and sometimes they linger. More overdubs followed for "Slave" and by 1981 Mick was sinally writing lyrics with "Ride a Wave" vying with "Slave." Sonny Rollins' saxophone was also a new melodic addition in 1981 that changed the arrangement. Truly an unfinished track until 1981 given that it had no lyrics and a good chunk of the music did not exist before that time.

"Little T & A" was a riff that Keith had played with for several years. It started to come together in the rough form we know in the late seventies. For a long time it was just a backing track. Final lyrics and vocals did not exist until after EMOTIONAL RESCUE. Another work in progress finished in 1981.

"Black Limousine" was a riff that Ronnie had on the backburner for several years. The song itself was ready in 1978 (again, see GIMME SOME NECK's inner sleeve). This was given a new guitar overdub from Keith during EMOTIONAL RESCUE which changed the song's arrangement. Remixing and editing in 1981 were the final touches on a song that was always a contender for SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.

"Neighbors" came together during EMOTIONAL RESCUE. They cut another version in the Fall of 1980 with Bobby Keyes. This is close to the finished version but Sonny Rollins re-did the sax parts in 1981. Again, the song was a contender that was going to be released.

As soon as EMOTIONAL RESCUE came out, Rolling Stone and Beggar Banquet noted their "next Emotional Rescue" was expected to follow within a few months. Not a compilation, they simply had more than a single album's worth of material in the running as was also the case with SOME GIRLS when they were stockpiling material in case Keith went to prison. They did not want to lose all of these songs and they continued to tinker with them and build the the tracks up all the way up to the start of summer 1981.

Not a compilation. The entire album was a work in progress of material they had been intending to release. "Worried About You" was planned for BLACK AND BLUE and was then considered for a live debut on LOVE YOU LIVE and then again for EMOTIONAL RESCUE. "Tops" and "Waiting on a Friend" were likewise revived for EMOTIONAL RESCUE. Neither had finished lyrics or in some cases any lyrics at all. "Waiting on a Friend" was built up considerably in 1981. These could not be considered finished tracks before then. "Heaven" and "No Use in Crying" were boht started during EMOTIONAL RESCUE" and they continued to putter with them, adding overdubs and remixing until they felt they were right.

Seen from that perspective, it is little different from the album they've been puttering around with since December 2015 in fits and starts. There are versions of some of these songs going back to 2011 to Mick's demo sessions with Charlie and Matt Clifford at Le Fork. Mick and Keith have worked on tracks together and apart. The band has worked as a unit on the album through several sessions over the past few years. Sometimes Ronnie does overdubs on his own. They've delved back into older sessions for songs left by the wayside as far back as STEEL WHEELS that are worth giving a listen to, overdubbing, recutting, to see if they are worthwhile.

There is, by all accounts, a lot of material none of which they consider to be finished yet. Some of the songs will likely be set aside for other later releases. Possibly a solo album or two or possibly still another Stones release. There is no clock ticking except for mortality and if that sad day arrives for the band before the album, the moment has been prepared for. That is why they've been stockpiling tracks and countless versions and mixes.

Remember Dave Stewart's remark a few years back that Mick could release several albums worth of unheard material on a cloud. Dave recommended Mick calling it GET OFF ON MY CLOUD. They have lots of material. They work on it together as well as with the likes of Dave Stewart, Matt Clifford, and Steve Jordan. They bring in outside producers to consult and help shape it. Lately, the focus has been to put more of a Jagger-Richards stamp on the material, shaping and molding to make it work for both of them, for all of them, for Don Was who is anything but the yes-man he's derided as, and for the label.

The new album will come and like TATTOO YOU it will be a work-in-progress of several years, not a compilation of odds and sods like METAMORPHOSIS.

Anyone who can't understand this likely chooses to be obtuse.

Extremely well written. Thank you for that.
Do you do Facebook by the way?

JumpingKentFlash

Kent, you now know the answer, but I pretty much use it for promotional purposes and keeping in touch with my kids only. I'm not a big fan of social media generally speaking, but it has its uses despite the endless headaches.

Thank you (and Max) for the kind words.

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GasLightStreet

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Rocky Dijon
"Black Limousine" was a riff that Ronnie had on the backburner for several years. The song itself was ready in 1978 (again, see GIMME SOME NECK's inner sleeve). This was given a new guitar overdub from Keith during EMOTIONAL RESCUE which changed the song's arrangement. Remixing and editing in 1981 were the final touches on a song that was always a contender for SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.

"Neighbors" came together during EMOTIONAL RESCUE. They cut another version in the Fall of 1980 with Bobby Keyes. This is close to the finished version but Sonny Rollins re-did the sax parts in 1981. Again, the song was a contender that was going to be released.

[www.nzentgraf.de] references the fall of 1980 sessions is strictly overdubs, editing, mixing, no recording with the band on any new tracks ie Neighbours. Sonny Rollins added sax to everything in the spring of 1981 in NYC. That is also referenced on timeisonourside.com. What is loosely referenced, that I can find anyway, is that Bobby Keys added sax to it originally for the 1979 ER sessions that include Bobby but lists nothing in particular, even though the first take of Neighbours was done then.

Which makes sense since Bobby is on EMOTIONAL RESCUE's Let Me Go, Dance, the title track, She's So Cold and All About You (as well as If I Was A Dancer).

Black Limo apparently got started for the IORR sessions in 1973 with... Ronnie Wood but, clearly, is not the bottoms used, as noted, for TATTOO YOU.

Great writing though, as usual!

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Let's forget Tattoo You on this particular thread unless somehow it directly relates to the new / up and coming album. We keep feeding into debates about Tattoo You (myself included).


TY should have had it's own thread for this regard.


Mr. Rocky ... do you know the info you give to be factual ..'certain'... (ie Stones not only recording brand new stuff but also looking at songs from before ...2011 and even from Steel Wheels etc. that might be gems to be finished for the new record .. Mick & Keith working on songs together and apart ...Ronnie working on select songs by himself etc. etc.). Only curious?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-15 05:03 by IanBillen.

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Ian Billen
Let's forget Tattoo You on this particular thread unless somehow it directly relates to the new / up and coming album

I thought it was directly related...an album cobbled together with old bits and new bits that's taken a long time to complete.
If and when completed, the supposed new album will be a new album of new originals, just like Tattoo You was at one time a new album of new originals.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-15 05:07 by Hairball.