To me it looks like the most important and telling feature in georgelick's report is not that of the possible quality of the already recorded songs, but that of about the "direction" the upcoming album will take. That seems to be an open question still. I cannot help but think that issue is a pseudonym for Mick and Keith having some rather strong disagreements. It could be that the already mentioned 'some little jerk' not in F.B.I. but in Universal has also something to say about it. Which only matters if and only if Jagger is willing to listen to him/her (pretty hard to imagine Keith giving a flying f..k about that opinion... but then again, Keith's doings and image doesn't always go hand in hand). The unexpected success of BLUE & LONESOME - something no Jagger, no Keith, no the 'jerk', no us, could expect - makes the things more complicated. There is probably a lesson to learn from there. Add there that "Gotta Get A Grip/England Lost" - Jagger's 'experimentation' with 'new sounds' - didn't make much impact (though I have never bought the theory that it was commercially speaking 'testing waters'). It could be that Keith has rather good cards in his hands... Who knows if the 'jerk' is actually taking sides with Keith's approach of making a more or less safe traditional sounding Rolling Stones album, but Mick is protesting there, and insists trying 'new sounds'...

We live interesting times.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-05 11:18 by Doxa.

Looking forward to the Outtakes, probably in 2040. ( i will be dead by that time, though).
Jeroen

I think it is a right time to issue another archive release or deluxe and stop fooling us with so called 'new album'.

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ironbelly
I think it is a right time to issue another archive release or deluxe and stop fooling us with so called 'new album'.

Are you kidding? It's the best running gag ever! I hope this will continue for at least another decade. In 2028 someone will have news that really, really, really, this time the cousin of the ex of the granddaughter of Charlie's nextdoor neighbour definitely has seen that someone was in a studio somewhere recording something that might or might not be on the new album in 2029.

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matxil

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ironbelly
I think it is a right time to issue another archive release or deluxe and stop fooling us with so called 'new album'.

Are you kidding? It's the best running gag ever! I hope this will continue for at least another decade. In 2028 someone will have news that really, really, really, this time the cousin of the ex of the granddaughter of Charlie's nextdoor neighbour definitely has seen that someone was in a studio somewhere recording something that might or might not be on the new album in 2029.

There was some talk a while back of them possibly releasing another Greatest Hits package prior to the upcoming tour. Haven't heard much else on that, so maybe the idea was ditched?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

About the 'direction' still... Surely Mick and Keith as song-writers and 'artistic directors' have the principal role there, but besides the supposed 'jerk' there is also a producer we need to take into account. Surely, Don Was has been seen as a sort of 'yes-man', and his role propably not differing much of an engineer as far the contributing to the artistic substance goes, but I am sure he also have his say to things. He is a (co-)producer, after all. For example, Mick once 'blamed' Don Was for VOODOO LOUNGE turning out such a 'retro' release for his taste, which implies that Don Was do have some actual power over the outcome. It is also from Was we have the stories about 'hitting a wall'. We easily interpret that as the Stones themselves making the observation, but it could be as well that the producer being the one stating out 'hey guys, this one goes nowhere, we need to try something different'. 'Yeah, man, you're right'.

I don't know how the dynamics between the triangle of Mick and Keith and Was go, but my safe bet is that he is sort of trusted man for both Mick and Keith, which means that they listen him - him probably being the third or a 'middle' person sorting out Mick and Keith's differences, offering the needed 'neutral' opinion. In any case, he's been there for a quite long time now; he needs to do, according to them, something right.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-05 12:05 by Doxa.

I originally thought the reason we didn't get an album for the first ten years was because Mick thought there was no money in albums anymore.

But now i think its more a case of Mick's creative juices running dry.
Give or take a few projects we have an almost dry spell from Mick for 13 years.

If this isn't writers block what can i say, it certainly has the appearance of writers block .
Now people keep saying the glimmers hit a wall, i don't think that's entirely fair on Keith, i'd say Keith hit a wall with Mick, he did very well without Mick writing Crosseyed Heart with Steve.

You could say Mick hit a wall with Keith, but from what i can see from the little bits of information we get, plus with Micks GGAG and England Lost forgotten efforts, Keith has every right to put his foot down and say that material is not good enough or suitable enough for a Stones album.
Therein lies the problem, i'm not sure Mick can make music up to the standard needed now. Mick has given us so much, incredible music over the years, are we asking a bit much to expect a 74 year old to come up with the goods, not many artist that old still write and release albums, he may be fit enough to tour but writing is another issue entirely. Keith is unusual that he still has his genius intact. Apart from Dylan, Van Morrison and a few others we don't see many that old still being creative in Rock.( Look at the Who for instance with Pete Townsend, nothing memorable has come from him for so long, and Pete was an absolute genius.) Sure some artists have a go because they have a fan-base and know people will probably still buy it, but is it really good enough.

Mick might not have writers block , so we could say yes he still can write, but what he is writing might not make the grade.
I think Mick can still make great cover albums like BAL, but as for originals i don't know.

Someone said just now looks like we will be on page 250 by the time Mick and Keith finish this album, i wouldn't be surprised if its never.

Open the vaults again, old tracks will be better than new songs!

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ouroux58
Open the vaults again, old tracks will be better than new songs!

YES!
And fulfill your promise, Mick. Play the entire TSMR at the concert at least once!

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Doxa
... GGAG/EL ... (though I have never bought the theory that it was commercially speaking 'testing waters').

I rather think of it as testing the waters in terms of the general attention a product related with the Stones camp would raise (and possibly w.r.t. potential further Jagger solo releases).

As for the song writing, I think Mick can do it at a moment's notice, kind of, 'you need a countryish tune? - Here's one', 'need a rocker or ballad? - Here we go'. Keith also has his genres but seems to click differently writing-wise.

Whether the "quality" is still up to par is really hard to tell because they are in their 6th decade now and we know hundreds of their songs, and each of us has certain expectations. To me, one questions is, what would we have thought of a new (or recent) song if this weren't 2018 and if we wouldn't know already ~200 similar-sounding previous songs bt if this were, say 1971 or 1977. Would we have liked that particular song back then, or what would we have thought of it back then? And also vice versa: what would we think of some of the 50 or 60 year old songs if they were released today, on the background of ~200 similar-sounding songs?

they just dont care anymore - there is no inspiration to create - too much time dicking around dressing like Pirates and hacking together some half-assed political song that means nothing outside of England - 2 years since that Blues album which shouldve been a shot in the arm and they still can't come up with anything - not even a lame part 2 of that -

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Hairball

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IanBillen
It seems instead of mass amounts of material and then cherry picking the best ones then recording them this time they are working on stuff and trying to get the best possible results / versions of select songs. At least that is sort of what was indicated per Charlie, Don Was, and Ronnie if you read between the lines.

Read between the lines lol...

Here's the way I read it:

Charlie doesn't even know the status of the new album, Don Was will always say it's great no matter what, and Ronnie has no input with the writing, so whatever any of them say should be taken with a grain of salt.
It would be nice to hear some real news directly from the two that really matter and the two who we've been talking about - Mick and Keith. Mick has been silent while Keith has been as vague as ever.

All we really know is there are many backing tracks, half done stuff, too much uneven stuff and average songs....
Sounds like there's mass amounts they're attempting to narrow down, so it doesn't sound like "they're trying to get the best possible results / versions of select songs".

We also know that Don Was has stated the new album probably won't be finished until 2019 which isn't that far away in Stones years...14 and counting...

___________________________________


Well that was a while ago with that news from Universal. Things may of changed since then (that was like six months ago). As well Ronnie said a while ago the songs may need reshaped or come to fruition like dough or dumplings'. Charlie keeps saying 'oh that one was it' .. indating the sessions as they go by only to do another (possibly indicating they are doing various versions or different stuff each time going in). Mick has said .. well they are taking it carefully and trying some things and bc they 'want to get it right'.


Sounds like they are pushing or waiting for the best results. We have no idea what is done .. how many good songs... etc. We havent heard the material ..
It's stored on Hard Drives we have no access to and none of us know the engineers, studio owners, or Producer personally.


So I wouldnt always assume the poor scenario. Just sayin

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IanBillen

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Hairball

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IanBillen
It seems instead of mass amounts of material and then cherry picking the best ones then recording them this time they are working on stuff and trying to get the best possible results / versions of select songs. At least that is sort of what was indicated per Charlie, Don Was, and Ronnie if you read between the lines.

Read between the lines lol...

Here's the way I read it:

Charlie doesn't even know the status of the new album, Don Was will always say it's great no matter what, and Ronnie has no input with the writing, so whatever any of them say should be taken with a grain of salt.
It would be nice to hear some real news directly from the two that really matter and the two who we've been talking about - Mick and Keith. Mick has been silent while Keith has been as vague as ever.

All we really know is there are many backing tracks, half done stuff, too much uneven stuff and average songs....
Sounds like there's mass amounts they're attempting to narrow down, so it doesn't sound like "they're trying to get the best possible results / versions of select songs".

We also know that Don Was has stated the new album probably won't be finished until 2019 which isn't that far away in Stones years...14 and counting...

___________________________________


Well that was a while ago with that news from Universal. Things may of changed since then (that was like six months ago). As well Ronnie said a while ago the songs may need reshaped or come to fruition like dough or dumplings'. Charlie keeps saying 'oh that one was it' .. indating the sessions as they go by only to do another (possibly indicating they are doing various versions or different stuff each time going in). Mick has said .. well they are taking it carefully and trying some things and bc they 'want to get it right'.


Sounds like they are pushing or waiting for the best results. We have no idea what is done .. how many good songs... etc. We havent heard the material ..
It's stored on Hard Drives we have no access to and none of us know the engineers, studio owners, or Producer personally.


So I wouldnt always assume the poor scenario. Just sayin

You got the album title right there, Ian!

Dough Or Dumplings

My God that's even better than Goats Head Soup

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IanBillen
Well that was a while ago with that news from Universal. Things may of changed since then...

They may have, but then again maybe not - we just don't know!

So how about another Dylan reference then (thanks to doitywoik for the inspiration):

"I used to care, but things have changed..."

Well not really as I still care a little bit, but this very long dryspell of nearly 14 years and counting since an album of originals is enough to test the paitience of even the most diehard.
I imagine a casual fan who might have liked A Bigger Bang might have forgotten the Stones even still exist!

As for Ronnie talking about "dough or dumplings", I thought it was gravy he referred to ...putting it through a sieve and letting the good stuff flow through. Seems right now they still have a bunch of annoying lumps to deal with, and will take more patience and time to deal with them. There's also the possibility that there's too many cooks in the kitchen spoiling the broth. When you have clueless execs at Universal giving the Master Chefs direction, something is not right. And then there's the power struggle between Keith and Mick over direction and Don Was saying not until next year. At this point 2019 sounds a bit optimistic, and we might be looking at 2020 if they can't get their act together.

In the meantime, wondering about the Greatest Hits they were planning to release fore the upcoming tour.
If nothing else, at least we would get some new album cover art to admire and appreciate or to criticize and ridicule (see GRRRRegory).

Quote
cowboytoast
they just dont care anymore - there is no inspiration to create - too much time dicking around dressing like Pirates and hacking together some half-assed political song that means nothing outside of England - 2 years since that Blues album which shouldve been a shot in the arm and they still can't come up with anything - not even a lame part 2 of that -

They used to care, but things have changed.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-05 19:34 by Hairball.

Quote
corriecas
Looking forward to the Outtakes, probably in 2040. ( i will be dead by that time, though).
Jeroen

I will be 76.....the bootleggers will send the outtakes directly into your brain via soundwaves so no vinyl disc or streaming needed....can't wait to hear them!!

Quote
ouroux58
Open the vaults again, old tracks will be better than new songs!

Well, in a couple of years all the unreleased material from the ABKCO years will be in the Public Domain, so it will be open season for everyone.

Quote
Hairball

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IanBillen
Well that was a while ago with that news from Universal. Things may of changed since then...

They may have, but then again maybe not - we just don't know!

So how about another Dylan reference then (thanks to doitywoik for the inspiration):

"I used to care, but things have changed..."

Well not really as I still care a little bit, but this very long dryspell of nearly 14 years and counting since an album of originals is enough to test the paitience of even the most diehard.
I imagine a casual fan who might have liked A Bigger Bang might have forgotten the Stones even still exist!

As for Ronnie talking about "dough or dumplings", I thought it was gravy he referred to ...putting it through a sieve and letting the good stuff flow through. Seems right now they still have a bunch of annoying lumps to deal with, and will take more patience and time to deal with them. There's also the possibility that there's too many cooks in the kitchen spoiling the broth. When you have clueless execs at Universal giving the Master Chefs direction, something is not right. And then there's the power struggle between Keith and Mick over direction and Don Was saying not until next year. At this point 2019 sounds a bit optimistic, and we might be looking at 2020 if they can't get their act together.

In the meantime, wondering about the Greatest Hits they were planning to release fore the upcoming tour.
If nothing else, at least we would get some new album cover art to admire and appreciate or to criticize and ridicule (see GRRRRegory).

Quote
cowboytoast
they just dont care anymore - there is no inspiration to create - too much time dicking around dressing like Pirates and hacking together some half-assed political song that means nothing outside of England - 2 years since that Blues album which shouldve been a shot in the arm and they still can't come up with anything - not even a lame part 2 of that -

They used to care, but things have changed.

_____________________________________


It was gravy .. you are right. I must admit ... "Dough or Dumplings" is a great code name for the album up to this point and time. It says it all hehe

Yes .. they have tested the patience of us .. major league.

Why stop at 2020 .. might as well be 2021 hell .. 2030 . Look Im not willing to wait until 2020. They could care less.. but guess what.. I would begetting to that same point if that is to be the case.

If we do not get a time reference of probable release time frame within the next few months .. I'm done.

Quote
Hairball
As for Ronnie talking about "dough or dumplings", I thought it was gravy he referred to ...putting it through a sieve and letting the good stuff flow through.

... or riding the gravy train?

I agree, "Dough or Dumplings" is a great album title! (My suggestion for Keith's song: Bangers & Mash ... )

Quote
Hairball
In the meantime, wondering about the Greatest Hits they were planning to release fore the upcoming tour.
If nothing else, at least we would get some new album cover art to admire and appreciate or to criticize and ridicule (see GRRRRegory).

The new cover art part is fine with me! But life would be easier for everyone if they left out the album.

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IanBillen

Quote
Hairball

Quote
IanBillen
Well that was a while ago with that news from Universal. Things may of changed since then...

They may have, but then again maybe not - we just don't know!

So how about another Dylan reference then (thanks to doitywoik for the inspiration):

"I used to care, but things have changed..."

Well not really as I still care a little bit, but this very long dryspell of nearly 14 years and counting since an album of originals is enough to test the paitience of even the most diehard.
I imagine a casual fan who might have liked A Bigger Bang might have forgotten the Stones even still exist!

As for Ronnie talking about "dough or dumplings", I thought it was gravy he referred to ...putting it through a sieve and letting the good stuff flow through. Seems right now they still have a bunch of annoying lumps to deal with, and will take more patience and time to deal with them. There's also the possibility that there's too many cooks in the kitchen spoiling the broth. When you have clueless execs at Universal giving the Master Chefs direction, something is not right. And then there's the power struggle between Keith and Mick over direction and Don Was saying not until next year. At this point 2019 sounds a bit optimistic, and we might be looking at 2020 if they can't get their act together.

In the meantime, wondering about the Greatest Hits they were planning to release fore the upcoming tour.
If nothing else, at least we would get some new album cover art to admire and appreciate or to criticize and ridicule (see GRRRRegory).

Quote
cowboytoast
they just dont care anymore - there is no inspiration to create - too much time dicking around dressing like Pirates and hacking together some half-assed political song that means nothing outside of England - 2 years since that Blues album which shouldve been a shot in the arm and they still can't come up with anything - not even a lame part 2 of that -

They used to care, but things have changed.

_____________________________________

It was gravy .. you are right. I must admit ... "Dough or Dumplings" is a great code name for the album up to this point and time. It says it all hehe

Yes .. they have tested the patience of us .. major league.

Why stop at 2020 .. might as well be 2021 hell .. 2030 . Look Im not willing to wait until 2020. They could care less.. but guess what.. I would begetting to that same point if that is to be the case.

If we do not get a time reference of probable release time frame within the next few months .. I'm done.

No Ian...you can't be done...we're just getting started here!!!
We are diehards and we DO NOT GIVE UP HOPE!!! Even if it takes 10 or 15 more years!!!
Long live the Stones!!! Keith will outlive us all!!! It's Only Rock'N'Roll (BUT WE LIKE IT)!!!

But if you decide to leave, you must be warned...

"You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

We're in it for the long haul ....whether we like it or not....


^{(IORR members participating in new album thread in the year 2075)}






_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball

Quote
IanBillen

Quote
Hairball

Quote
IanBillen
Well that was a while ago with that news from Universal. Things may of changed since then...

They may have, but then again maybe not - we just don't know!

So how about another Dylan reference then (thanks to doitywoik for the inspiration):

"I used to care, but things have changed..."

Well not really as I still care a little bit, but this very long dryspell of nearly 14 years and counting since an album of originals is enough to test the paitience of even the most diehard.
I imagine a casual fan who might have liked A Bigger Bang might have forgotten the Stones even still exist!

As for Ronnie talking about "dough or dumplings", I thought it was gravy he referred to ...putting it through a sieve and letting the good stuff flow through. Seems right now they still have a bunch of annoying lumps to deal with, and will take more patience and time to deal with them. There's also the possibility that there's too many cooks in the kitchen spoiling the broth. When you have clueless execs at Universal giving the Master Chefs direction, something is not right. And then there's the power struggle between Keith and Mick over direction and Don Was saying not until next year. At this point 2019 sounds a bit optimistic, and we might be looking at 2020 if they can't get their act together.

In the meantime, wondering about the Greatest Hits they were planning to release fore the upcoming tour.
If nothing else, at least we would get some new album cover art to admire and appreciate or to criticize and ridicule (see GRRRRegory).

Quote
cowboytoast
they just dont care anymore - there is no inspiration to create - too much time dicking around dressing like Pirates and hacking together some half-assed political song that means nothing outside of England - 2 years since that Blues album which shouldve been a shot in the arm and they still can't come up with anything - not even a lame part 2 of that -

They used to care, but things have changed.

_____________________________________

It was gravy .. you are right. I must admit ... "Dough or Dumplings" is a great code name for the album up to this point and time. It says it all hehe

Yes .. they have tested the patience of us .. major league.

Why stop at 2020 .. might as well be 2021 hell .. 2030 . Look Im not willing to wait until 2020. They could care less.. but guess what.. I would begetting to that same point if that is to be the case.

If we do not get a time reference of probable release time frame within the next few months .. I'm done.

No Ian...you can't be done...we're just getting started here!!!
We are diehards and we DO NOT GIVE UP HOPE!!! Even if it takes 10 or 15 more years!!!
Long live the Stones!!! Keith will outlive us all!!! It's Only Rock'N'Roll (BUT WE LIKE IT)!!!

But if you decide to leave, you must be warned...

"You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

We're in it for the long haul ....whether we like it or not....


^{(IORR members participating in new album thread in the year 2075)}

_________________________________


I as well as all of us like your lightheartedness and your toleration of things (including us at times ha). I didn't mean I was 'done digging The Stones or being a fan'. I simply meant done caring or thinking about this next new album.


Voodoo Lounge - (is a great record).

Yeah Ian I know what you meant, but a few months ago you threatened to give up hope on the new album if there wasn't a time frame given by January or February '18 at the latest.
Yet here you are right in the thick if it - "you can never leave"!!!

As the old saying goes, it's the journey and not the destination...it's the thrill of the chase,
Some day we'll look back on this thread fondly, while the new album itself (if there ever is one) might just be just a footnote.

Let's hope that's not the case and we end up with an all time classic keeper and one for the ages!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
Some day we'll look back on this thread fondly, while the new album itself (if there ever is one) might just be just a footnote.

Well spoken (written), hairball.

And even if the album is not one for the ages, this thread is! Who cares about the destination, it's the journey - what a hell of a ride!

Quote
doitywoik

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Hairball
Some day we'll look back on this thread fondly, while the new album itself (if there ever is one) might just be just a footnote.

Well spoken (written), hairball.

And even if the album is not one for the ages, this thread is! Who cares about the destination, it's the journey - what a hell of a ride!

157 pages and counting....destination unknown....(*could be lyrics for a new Stones tune )




_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
Yeah Ian I know what you meant, but a few months ago you threatened to give up hope on the new album if there wasn't a time frame given by January or February '18 at the latest.
Yet here you are right in the thick if it - "you can never leave"!!!

As the old saying goes, it's the journey and not the destination...it's the thrill of the chase,
Some day we'll look back on this thread fondly, while the new album itself (if there ever is one) might just be just a footnote.

Let's hope that's not the case and we end up with an all time classic keeper and one for the ages!

____________________________________


Well said mate... Well said.

The more I ponder it the more I think they should just put out one good new single every once in a while for digital download to keep everybody happy. Trying to put out an entire CD's worth of quality material is really asking too much from The Boys at this juncture in their career and it's way too much work for them to organize. And without a deadline for this supposed new CD it will be another 3 years. Financially it's not really productive compared to pulling in $10,000,000 per live performance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-06 21:37 by Bungo.

157 pages about nothing!

Larry David would be proud...

Quote
Maindefender
Larry David would be proud...

ouroux58 157 pages about nothing!confused smiley



40 demos and three killer Riffs !! nothing ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-06 23:05 by keithsman.

Quote
Bungo
The more I ponder it the more I think they should just put out one good new single every once in a while for digital download to keep everybody happy. Trying to put out an entire CD's worth of quality material is really asking too much from The Boys at this juncture in their career and it's way too much work for them to organize. And without a deadline for this supposed new CD it will be another 3 years. Financially it's not really productive compared to pulling in $10,000,000 per live performance.

___________________________________



Wait a min ....Why (or how) is asking for an album too much work for them at this stage...??

They tour at least every year now don't they? .. among other projects they work on as a band or individually. Recording an album can be done much more at the pace and in locations they choose. Also it less exerting than a live gig. All kinds of other artists record albums at their age? See Leonard Cohen .. David Bowie ...Paul McCartney or Bob Dylan .. They did / still do it .. .. ....So do other lesser known acts.


This is like that excuse that they don't or wouldn't get enough <family time> if they chose to record or work on a new album.

*Look ... they got a 5 or 6 week tour coming up that will also require a couple weeks worth of rehearsal .... << Why isnt that too much work for them? How are they organizing tours and special and very involving Museum exhibits?

Isn't like they have to do all the leg work anyway yo. Theyhave people to help them with everything and they can do almost all of it if they seriously chose it that way. All they gotta do is write the songs, choose a studio .. and show up to record them after a little rehearsing. That's what many artists do .. even at their age.

If they would feel the same as some of us in that it would be too much "work" .. Perhaps they shouldn't sign record contracts that amount to a couple million bucks per album now should they? .. .. ....


That is like having a painter who goes on the road a few times a year and organizes his own exhibits throughout the country that actually painting a new portrait or two being as he or she hasn't in 13 years .. could be too much work for them lol



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-06 23:38 by IanBillen.